What's Up with Lavin?

Thank you Steve. Welcome Chris. Team is still undefeated this season. Let's move on.
 
What I still don't get is why people who claim to have no interest in discussing Lavin care whether other people do, and also continue to inject themselves in the conversations? Plenty of crap discussed on here that I completely ignore because it's not worth my time. You people know the title of the thread, you don't want to discuss Lavin any more or see anything negative posted about the guy, it's certainly easy enough to avoid.
 
Secondly Lavin inherited a good team, five years later Lavin left a four man roster that combined for 10 points a game for next year.
No coach in the history of the program has ever left it in worse shape.
If not for the superb recruiting job our incomplete staff has done to date we would win 5 games next season. The only expectation we have for this staff to succeed is based on their superb effort that they have put in to date. Lavin's recruiting the past three seasons was nothing short of pathetic.
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Norm left us Ron Roberts and 10 seniors. That meant a complete overhaul in year 2 and a totally unbalanced roster full of freshmen. Yes, Lavin should have done a better job balancing it out with JUCOs and transfers but Norm basically left us with a complete rebuild, no NBA players, and no NCAA success. He started at the bottom too trying to clean up the mess Jarvis left us (which one could argue was the worst ever).

Lavin left us with Sampson, Doughty, Barnes-Thompkins, Felix, Amar, Jordan, and Obepka. Not great but not the worst either. His job was not to leave the next guy with a great roster, it was to win games. He didn't do enough of that so he was fired.

We can't fire him again but yet we forget that he also left us as a finalist for Diallo, Lovett basically locked up, a shot at Mussini and Papa. If Amar's cousin or the big man from Our Savior comes one could say Lavin helped there too.

He recruited the schools 3rd all time leading scorer and best ever shot blocker. Those are places in our record books that will remain for a while. He also helped put 2 guys in the NBA for a school that was not getting NBA talent. I'd bet Pointer makes it this year and Obepka and Sheed will have a shot next year. Say what you want but this helps the program. Turn on a game and see St John's under an NBA player's stats and it's free advertising.

I'm pretty sure we would have put a similar or better roster on the floor next year if he wasn't fired. Lovett, Mussini, Sampson, Obepka and Papa or Diallo was very possible. No one knows for sure what the roster would have looked like but yet we criticize based upon speculation.

At the same time , I'm also confident that Chris will do better with the roster we have and that we are in better hands for the future. That's why I'd also change my vote had I known we would have replaced Lavin with Chris, Slice, and Matt A. I'm not going to pretend that the guy was awful though. I'd prefer to thank him for his contributions and move on. Why can't some of you do the same?
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Hi Russell I
I thanked you but your post and analysis was so intense and insightful that I offer you this praise! You can change your vote!!

all the best
 
What I still don't get is why people who claim to have no interest in discussing Lavin care whether other people do, and also continue to inject themselves in the conversations? Plenty of crap discussed on here that I completely ignore because it's not worth my time. You people know the title of the thread, you don't want to discuss Lavin any more or see anything negative posted about the guy, it's certainly easy enough to avoid.
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Hi Monte!
I agree there comes a time for "closure" when enough is enough.
Can the moderators close a post when closing makes sense?
 
Secondly Lavin inherited a good team, five years later Lavin left a four man roster that combined for 10 points a game for next year.
No coach in the history of the program has ever left it in worse shape.
If not for the superb recruiting job our incomplete staff has done to date we would win 5 games next season. The only expectation we have for this staff to succeed is based on their superb effort that they have put in to date. Lavin's recruiting the past three seasons was nothing short of pathetic.
Click to expand...

Norm left us Ron Roberts and 10 seniors. That meant a complete overhaul in year 2 and a totally unbalanced roster full of freshmen. Yes, Lavin should have done a better job balancing it out with JUCOs and transfers but Norm basically left us with a complete rebuild, no NBA players, and no NCAA success. He started at the bottom too trying to clean up the mess Jarvis left us (which one could argue was the worst ever).

Lavin left us with Sampson, Doughty, Barnes-Thompkins, Felix, Amar, Jordan, and Obepka. Not great but not the worst either. His job was not to leave the next guy with a great roster, it was to win games. He didn't do enough of that so he was fired.

We can't fire him again but yet we forget that he also left us as a finalist for Diallo, Lovett basically locked up, a shot at Mussini and Papa. If Amar's cousin or the big man from Our Savior comes one could say Lavin helped there too.

He recruited the schools 3rd all time leading scorer and best ever shot blocker. Those are places in our record books that will remain for a while. He also helped put 2 guys in the NBA for a school that was not getting NBA talent. I'd bet Pointer makes it this year and Obepka and Sheed will have a shot next year. Say what you want but this helps the program. Turn on a game and see St John's under an NBA player's stats and it's free advertising.

I'm pretty sure we would have put a similar or better roster on the floor next year if he wasn't fired. Lovett, Mussini, Sampson, Obepka and Papa or Diallo was very possible. No one knows for sure what the roster would have looked like but yet we criticize based upon speculation.

At the same time , I'm also confident that Chris will do better with the roster we have and that we are in better hands for the future. That's why I'd also change my vote had I known we would have replaced Lavin with Chris, Slice, and Matt A. I'm not going to pretend that the guy was awful though. I'd prefer to thank him for his contributions and move on. Why can't some of you do the same?
Click to expand...




Enjoyed reading this post because it was thoughtful and objective. Thanks again !!!!!
 
Lav was a very good recruiter who needed to be an excellent recruiter in order to make up for his coaching deficiencies. That really is what it boils down to. Some words to describe him:

Good guy
Very good recruiter
Wordsmith
Excuse-maker
Jumpsuits
Timeouts
Afterthought
 
Secondly Lavin inherited a good team, five years later Lavin left a four man roster that combined for 10 points a game for next year.
No coach in the history of the program has ever left it in worse shape.
If not for the superb recruiting job our incomplete staff has done to date we would win 5 games next season. The only expectation we have for this staff to succeed is based on their superb effort that they have put in to date. Lavin's recruiting the past three seasons was nothing short of pathetic.
Click to expand...

Norm left us Ron Roberts and 10 seniors. That meant a complete overhaul in year 2 and a totally unbalanced roster full of freshmen. Yes, Lavin should have done a better job balancing it out with JUCOs and transfers but Norm basically left us with a complete rebuild, no NBA players, and no NCAA success. He started at the bottom too trying to clean up the mess Jarvis left us (which one could argue was the worst ever).

Lavin left us with Sampson, Doughty, Barnes-Thompkins, Felix, Amar, Jordan, and Obepka. Not great but not the worst either. His job was not to leave the next guy with a great roster, it was to win games. He didn't do enough of that so he was fired.

We can't fire him again but yet we forget that he also left us as a finalist for Diallo, Lovett basically locked up, a shot at Mussini and Papa. If Amar's cousin or the big man from Our Savior comes one could say Lavin helped there too.

He recruited the schools 3rd all time leading scorer and best ever shot blocker. Those are places in our record books that will remain for a while. He also helped put 2 guys in the NBA for a school that was not getting NBA talent. I'd bet Pointer makes it this year and Obepka and Sheed will have a shot next year. Say what you want but this helps the program. Turn on a game and see St John's under an NBA player's stats and it's free advertising.

I'm pretty sure we would have put a similar or better roster on the floor next year if he wasn't fired. Lovett, Mussini, Sampson, Obepka and Papa or Diallo was very possible. No one knows for sure what the roster would have looked like but yet we criticize based upon speculation.

At the same time , I'm also confident that Chris will do better with the roster we have and that we are in better hands for the future. That's why I'd also change my vote had I known we would have replaced Lavin with Chris, Slice, and Matt A. I'm not going to pretend that the guy was awful though. I'd prefer to thank him for his contributions and move on. Why can't some of you do the same?
Click to expand...

Just to clarify: Lavin did not leave us with Jordan. Jordan is now ineligible. And being a "finalist" for Diallo means squat. Like Briscoe, he was a local kid who gave SJU consideration as the local school until he blew up to Top-10 status and then it was bye-bye SJU. Even Sampson did not sign the LOI, so he was not a sure thing.
 
I agree there comes a time for "closure" when enough is enough.
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Does that mean we can stop talking about the War Between the States now?
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not if it pertains to Ulysses S. Grant. B)
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A lucky general who won by brute force, and an overrated president who failed at devising an Indian peace policy and oversaw the collapse of reconstruction.
 
Lavin-good guy, barely adequate coach, grossly over-paid, raised program's profile, teased us, good transition coach. Good luck to him.
 
Secondly Lavin inherited a good team, five years later Lavin left a four man roster that combined for 10 points a game for next year.
No coach in the history of the program has ever left it in worse shape.
If not for the superb recruiting job our incomplete staff has done to date we would win 5 games next season. The only expectation we have for this staff to succeed is based on their superb effort that they have put in to date. Lavin's recruiting the past three seasons was nothing short of pathetic.
Click to expand...

Norm left us Ron Roberts and 10 seniors. That meant a complete overhaul in year 2 and a totally unbalanced roster full of freshmen. Yes, Lavin should have done a better job balancing it out with JUCOs and transfers but Norm basically left us with a complete rebuild, no NBA players, and no NCAA success. He started at the bottom too trying to clean up the mess Jarvis left us (which one could argue was the worst ever).

Lavin left us with Sampson, Doughty, Barnes-Thompkins, Felix, Amar, Jordan, and Obepka. Not great but not the worst either. His job was not to leave the next guy with a great roster, it was to win games. He didn't do enough of that so he was fired.

We can't fire him again but yet we forget that he also left us as a finalist for Diallo, Lovett basically locked up, a shot at Mussini and Papa. If Amar's cousin or the big man from Our Savior comes one could say Lavin helped there too.

He recruited the schools 3rd all time leading scorer and best ever shot blocker. Those are places in our record books that will remain for a while. He also helped put 2 guys in the NBA for a school that was not getting NBA talent. I'd bet Pointer makes it this year and Obepka and Sheed will have a shot next year. Say what you want but this helps the program. Turn on a game and see St John's under an NBA player's stats and it's free advertising.

I'm pretty sure we would have put a similar or better roster on the floor next year if he wasn't fired. Lovett, Mussini, Sampson, Obepka and Papa or Diallo was very possible. No one knows for sure what the roster would have looked like but yet we criticize based upon speculation.

At the same time , I'm also confident that Chris will do better with the roster we have and that we are in better hands for the future. That's why I'd also change my vote had I known we would have replaced Lavin with Chris, Slice, and Matt A. I'm not going to pretend that the guy was awful though. I'd prefer to thank him for his contributions and move on. Why can't some of you do the same?
Click to expand...

Agree. As, Desco feel some people have "anxieties," in relation to Lavin's name being mentioned.... More like folks need to get over their fixation, in regards to Lavin. Personally, I doubt anyone has anxieties when it comes to him. I think the majority are tired of it being mentioned, ad nauseam. It's more like beating of a dead horse. He's no longer at St. John's, and I seriously doubt he'll ever be a part of the St. John's men's basketball program again.

I have to say this again.... Would some of you do the same in person? I, seriously doubt it. As, you'd be ostracized and viewed as a repugnant person or, depending on who you're dealing with, find yourselves in a physical confrontation due to being an annoyance.

Unless, the guy has literally done something on a personal level to any of the one's who usually piss on him, then I feel y'all should let go of your mania. Otherwise, it comes off as petty. I wonder if folks lives are so, miserable that they have to continue to crap on a person, whom they wanted gone, that is actually gone.
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Dink,
I understand that some of you guys don't want to rehash the same debates over and over again.
That makes sense to me.
But we didn't "start" it this time. Beast was talking about Lavin's legacy here... which is fine, but if that's the topic, then does it have to be a one sided discussion? We were just responding on-topic.
I'm not going out of my way to crap on Lavin. Im not starting new topics or inserting the Lavin-bashing into a thread about a recruiit. (I admit, I may have done that in the past).

Why do Otis, myself, Simmons, and Monte need to shut up everytime someone here starts to talk about the value they think Lavin brought to the program? I can't disagree?
 
A lucky general who won by brute force, and an overrated president .
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Evidently the war rages on. (a) Most generals win by brute force - it's their job and (b) Grant is generally regarded as one of the worst presidents of all time.
 
A lucky general who won by brute force, and an overrated president .
Click to expand...

Evidently the war rages on. (a) Most generals win by brute force - it's their job and (b) Grant is generally regarded as one of the worst presidents of all time.
Click to expand...

Recent scholarship on Grant's presidency treats him better than what most of us were exposed to.
 
A lucky general who won by brute force, and an overrated president .
Click to expand...

Evidently the war rages on. (a) Most generals win by brute force - it's their job and (b) Grant is generally regarded as one of the worst presidents of all time.
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that his approval among presidential historians has ebbed and flowed.
And his reputation has been rehabilitated lately under the theory that "at least he tried" and no one could have done significantly better under the circumstances.

And I would agree, most generals do succeed through brute force, but in light of Vietnamn and the current wars - it's fair to criticize the collateral damage that a certain strategy may produce, no? In some cases a siege, diplomacy, or surgical strike may accomplish the same end.
The answer isn't to always destroy everything in your path.
 
Heard Lav did not attend the NYAC dinner last night.
Says a lot about his character.
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He's in California to see his Mother. Supports SJU fully and wishes nothing but the best.
Were you there?
 
Heard Lav did not attend the NYAC dinner last night.
Says a lot about his character.
Click to expand...

He's in California to see his Mother. Supports SJU fully and wishes nothing but the best.
Were you there?
Click to expand...

Lavin had no place at the event last night. It was Chris's time to have the full spotlight without that type of distraction. Next year is good for his return.
 
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