What's Up with Lavin?
- Thread starter JackofVirginia
- Start date
Thanks SJU
it's just like any trauma, no one knows (nor should an outsider speculate or critique) the real impact upon a man's heart - whether it be Coach Lavin's cancer and loss of a Dad and mentor Wooden, Jordan's family/friend crises.
I've witnessed - we all likely have - many a fine man, soldier, athlete crumble and be humbled by depression, PTSD and the like from the tragedies life on occasion brings.
I agree with your observation. Sometimes a man is never the same.
beast of the east
Active member
I am not responding directly to you, since there are two or three similar responses, I'll do it globally. As far as what Roberts left Lavin, please remember that if Roberts coached a 6th season, the odds against him taking that team to the NCAA's with Hardy and Brownlee as bench players and Sean Evans as a starter would be pretty astronomical. As far as I'm concerned, Lavin took lemons and made lemonade. Nothing that Roberts did suggested this was an NCAA tourney team, yet many of you choose to give Roberts the credit though Lavin's staff made the adjustments to make them a fine team.
As far as Redmannorth's comments, the only reason Roberts get drawn in is the comparison of exiting coaches. Lavin took over a program that made the NIT once in 7 seasons, and left the program as one that made the NCAA's twice in five seasons.
He recruited deep into the top 100, something we doubted could ever happen again before Lavin took over. Some college coaches quietly suggested SJU should leave the Big East and join a mid major conference.
Admittedly Lavin's recruiting the past two years stunk, no even worse, but he did land Sampson and came very close to Diallo. So far, Mullin has done a wonderful job of mopping up what was left of uncommitted guys, transfers, and jucos.
So, yes, Lavin left Mullin with a depleted roster, but there was a hair of a chance that he could have had Jordan, Obekpa, and Sampson as the big three on next season's roster. Trust me, I agree it was time for him to go if he wanted $2 million a year, but overwhelmingly Redmen.com voted to have him back for next season when surveyed at the end of the campaign.
You opened a thread about coach Lavin. And Beast, very rationally I might add, posted about his legacy here and what he thinks Lavin left for Mullin. Am I not allowed to respond? Is otis?
No one is setting the record straight for the umpteenth time. We're talking about the legacy of a former coach.
People need to get over their anxiety towards any posts discussing critiques of Steve Lavin.
When its offtopic or trolling, feel free to ask the mods to remove it. But too often posters are complaining about normal debate/conversation.
Who would you rather live on your block now in the city. Ann Coulter or Lavin ?
Not even close Mike! SL
I hope he lands a good tv gig. I have my complaints, but I wish him well.
The other one..... she might actually be evil.
She said today that it was depresssing (and Obamas fault) that more Americans watched the womens' soccer game last night than did the Kentucky derby.
Good luck understanding that haha
Who would you rather live on your block now in the city. Ann Coulter or Lavin ?
Not even close Mike! SL
I hope he lands a good tv gig. I have my complaints, but I wish him well.
The other one..... she might actually be evil.
She said today that it was depresssing (and Obamas fault) that more Americans watched the womens' soccer game last night than did the Kentucky derby.
Good luck understanding that haha
haaaa. that's crazy. The derby ? seems so long ago
I watched the soccer game yesterday. I'll watch them through the tourney. Heck I watched colombia vs mexico today thinking I'd see some hot girls running around but they didn't have a lot
Norm left us Ron Roberts and 10 seniors. That meant a complete overhaul in year 2 and a totally unbalanced roster full of freshmen. Yes, Lavin should have done a better job balancing it out with JUCOs and transfers but Norm basically left us with a complete rebuild, no NBA players, and no NCAA success. He started at the bottom too trying to clean up the mess Jarvis left us (which one could argue was the worst ever).
Lavin left us with Sampson, Doughty, Barnes-Thompkins, Felix, Amar, Jordan, and Obepka. Not great but not the worst either. His job was not to leave the next guy with a great roster, it was to win games. He didn't do enough of that so he was fired.
We can't fire him again but yet we forget that he also left us as a finalist for Diallo, Lovett basically locked up, a shot at Mussini and Papa. If Amar's cousin or the big man from Our Savior comes one could say Lavin helped there too.
He recruited the schools 3rd all time leading scorer and best ever shot blocker. Those are places in our record books that will remain for a while. He also helped put 2 guys in the NBA for a school that was not getting NBA talent. I'd bet Pointer makes it this year and Obepka and Sheed will have a shot next year. Say what you want but this helps the program. Turn on a game and see St John's under an NBA player's stats and it's free advertising.
I'm pretty sure we would have put a similar or better roster on the floor next year if he wasn't fired. Lovett, Mussini, Sampson, Obepka and Papa or Diallo was very possible. No one knows for sure what the roster would have looked like but yet we criticize based upon speculation.
At the same time , I'm also confident that Chris will do better with the roster we have and that we are in better hands for the future. That's why I'd also change my vote had I known we would have replaced Lavin with Chris, Slice, and Matt A. I'm not going to pretend that the guy was awful though. I'd prefer to thank him for his contributions and move on. Why can't some of you do the same?
Agree. As, Desco feel some people have "anxieties," in relation to Lavin's name being mentioned.... More like folks need to get over their fixation, in regards to Lavin. Personally, I doubt anyone has anxieties when it comes to him. I think the majority are tired of it being mentioned, ad nauseam. It's more like beating of a dead horse. He's no longer at St. John's, and I seriously doubt he'll ever be a part of the St. John's men's basketball program again.
I have to say this again.... Would some of you do the same in person? I, seriously doubt it. As, you'd be ostracized and viewed as a repugnant person or, depending on who you're dealing with, find yourselves in a physical confrontation due to being an annoyance.
Unless, the guy has literally done something on a personal level to any of the one's who usually piss on him, then I feel y'all should let go of your mania. Otherwise, it comes off as petty. I wonder if folks lives are so, miserable that they have to continue to crap on a person, whom they wanted gone, that is actually gone.
You and me both, but I think a large majority of the posters who voted to retain Lavin did so because that had no confidence that the administration could get the next hire right. So they were willing accept mediocrity rather than take a chance on a new coach who might be worse than Lavin. Thankfully the administration was no longer willing to accept mediocrity and was able to make the right hire.
When discussing Lavins legacy I definitely go both ways. I think he raised the excitement surrounding the program. The overall buzz and exposure improved. Part of that has to do with the fox sports deal and also getting into a new big east conference but Lavin still at the same time deserves credit for giving the program a much needed shot of adrenaline.
At the same time though, it's hard for me to just thank the guy for that and moving on. I find myself frustrated with Lavin still because we had exceptional guys here. Sir Dom, DLo, Jakarr, Rysheed. All great talents. But he just couldn't get anything out of it. Lavins tenure is like that prank where you tie a string to a 20 dollar bill and when someone goes to get it you pull it away. He got the guys to get us excited but constant drama and poor coaching never got us the 20 dollar bill.
And his laziness cost us a truly special year this year. These seniors still made the tournament, imagine if Lavin gave them players good enough to give them a blow. DLo got run into the ground this year. And that still pisses me off when I think about it.
All in all I got mad when I see people still making personal comments about Steve on here. Although I go back and forth on viewing his tenure in a positive/negative light I still think the man deserves respect. Don't mind discussing this even with him being gone, no need to censor this topic IMO, it's still a good debate to have
At the same time though, it's hard for me to just thank the guy for that and moving on. I find myself frustrated with Lavin still because we had exceptional guys here. Sir Dom, DLo, Jakarr, Rysheed. All great talents. But he just couldn't get anything out of it. Lavins tenure is like that prank where you tie a string to a 20 dollar bill and when someone goes to get it you pull it away. He got the guys to get us excited but constant drama and poor coaching never got us the 20 dollar bill.
And his laziness cost us a truly special year this year. These seniors still made the tournament, imagine if Lavin gave them players good enough to give them a blow. DLo got run into the ground this year. And that still pisses me off when I think about it.
All in all I got mad when I see people still making personal comments about Steve on here. Although I go back and forth on viewing his tenure in a positive/negative light I still think the man deserves respect. Don't mind discussing this even with him being gone, no need to censor this topic IMO, it's still a good debate to have
L J S A
Well-known member
Was there any real buzz outside this board beyond that first season, though?
There were some exciting moments for our fans after that season, but no one outside of New York cared. I'm sure Lavin is a nice guy, but he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. This was the best gig for him, if for no other reason than he was following a guy who couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.
beast of the east
Active member
I think there was actually a buzz about St. John's under Lavin. Earlier in the past season, some announcers proclaimed that St. John's could be a very dangerous tourney team come March. Serious college basketball fans everywhere knew our roster, our coach, and our ranking. I've encountered sports fans across the country who aren't SJU fans, and they believed Lavin had done a great job at St. John's (which I would rephrase as merely good). There was a long period during post-Jarvis days that I'd get blank looks when I travelled and mentioned St. John's University. Not only was the basketball program in tatters, but it affected our national visibility.
I would agree though that the program never rose to the level of buzz that captured NYC during our heyday before and after game days at MSG. The mere anticipation of the return to those days with Mullin at the helm may actually elevate sales next season.
Why do we keep rehashing this topic over and over. Everyone has their own personal opinions about this. It will never change, so what is the point here. Let's look forward to the team we have now and the kids that are being recruited by our coaching staff. I think the future is bright and we should be happy about that.