What's Up with Lavin?

[paultzman]

I think Mainman's sense of humor is sometimes unappreciated or not recognized.

 

[fun]

And I would agree, most generals do succeed through brute force, but in light of Vietnamn and the current wars - it's fair to criticize the collateral damage that a certain strategy may produce, no? In some cases a siege, diplomacy, or surgical strike may accomplish the same end. The answer isn't to always destroy everything in your path.

A hundred and fifty years ago about the only option for a general was to destroy everything in his path. The Union Army didn't have smart bombs.

I don't think it's fair to criticize historical figures based upon today's ethics. The point of civilization is that morality evolves. People from then don't get the benefit of now. In sieges in the middle ages they used to fling the bodies of plague victims over the walls. No doubt if you'd been there you'd have been manning the catapults. Doesn't make you a bad guy.

 

[L J S A]

I think Mainman's sense of humor is sometimes unappreciated or not recognized.

Which is pretty weird considering MainMan is down to only about three non-sarcastic posts a year.

 

[beast of the east]

Secondly Lavin inherited a good team, five years later Lavin left a four man roster that combined for 10 points a game for next year.
No coach in the history of the program has ever left it in worse shape.
If not for the superb recruiting job our incomplete staff has done to date we would win 5 games next season. The only expectation we have for this staff to succeed is based on their superb effort that they have put in to date. Lavin's recruiting the past three seasons was nothing short of pathetic.

Norm left us Ron Roberts and 10 seniors. That meant a complete overhaul in year 2 and a totally unbalanced roster full of freshmen. Yes, Lavin should have done a better job balancing it out with JUCOs and transfers but Norm basically left us with a complete rebuild, no NBA players, and no NCAA success. He started at the bottom too trying to clean up the mess Jarvis left us (which one could argue was the worst ever).

Lavin left us with Sampson, Doughty, Barnes-Thompkins, Felix, Amar, Jordan, and Obepka. Not great but not the worst either. His job was not to leave the next guy with a great roster, it was to win games. He didn't do enough of that so he was fired.

We can't fire him again but yet we forget that he also left us as a finalist for Diallo, Lovett basically locked up, a shot at Mussini and Papa. If Amar's cousin or the big man from Our Savior comes one could say Lavin helped there too.

He recruited the schools 3rd all time leading scorer and best ever shot blocker. Those are places in our record books that will remain for a while. He also helped put 2 guys in the NBA for a school that was not getting NBA talent. I'd bet Pointer makes it this year and Obepka and Sheed will have a shot next year. Say what you want but this helps the program. Turn on a game and see St John's under an NBA player's stats and it's free advertising.

I'm pretty sure we would have put a similar or better roster on the floor next year if he wasn't fired. Lovett, Mussini, Sampson, Obepka and Papa or Diallo was very possible. No one knows for sure what the roster would have looked like but yet we criticize based upon speculation.

At the same time , I'm also confident that Chris will do better with the roster we have and that we are in better hands for the future. That's why I'd also change my vote had I known we would have replaced Lavin with Chris, Slice, and Matt A. I'm not going to pretend that the guy was awful though. I'd prefer to thank him for his contributions and move on. Why can't some of you do the same?

Agree. As, Desco feel some people have "anxieties," in relation to Lavin's name being mentioned.... More like folks need to get over their fixation, in regards to Lavin. Personally, I doubt anyone has anxieties when it comes to him. I think the majority are tired of it being mentioned, ad nauseam. It's more like beating of a dead horse. He's no longer at St. John's, and I seriously doubt he'll ever be a part of the St. John's men's basketball program again.

I have to say this again.... Would some of you do the same in person? I, seriously doubt it. As, you'd be ostracized and viewed as a repugnant person or, depending on who you're dealing with, find yourselves in a physical confrontation due to being an annoyance.

Unless, the guy has literally done something on a personal level to any of the one's who usually piss on him, then I feel y'all should let go of your mania. Otherwise, it comes off as petty. I wonder if folks lives are so, miserable that they have to continue to crap on a person, whom they wanted gone, that is actually gone.

Dink,
I understand that some of you guys don't want to rehash the same debates over and over again.
That makes sense to me.
But we didn't "start" it this time. Beast was talking about Lavin's legacy here... which is fine, but if that's the topic, then does it have to be a one sided discussion? We were just responding on-topic.
I'm not going out of my way to crap on Lavin. Im not starting new topics or inserting the Lavin-bashing into a thread about a recruiit. (I admit, I may have done that in the past).

Why do Otis, myself, Simmons, and Monte need to shut up everytime someone here starts to talk about the value they think Lavin brought to the program? I can't disagree?

I valued your opinions which are typically fair and not over the top. I didn't take the close it down to mean just those to had a less than favorable opinion of Lavin.

I'm most agreeable with Monte's position. If you don't want to discuss Lavin, there are other threads. In fact, other than chat about Mullin being so wonderful these first few days (nauseating even for me who idolizes him), which recruits are coming or not (thousands of mostly worthless posts) and all sorts of other garbage. It's the offseason, the hot-stove league in effect. Usually this board would be deader than a doornail, but it's still hopping. Give credit in part to Lavin's mixed-bag success here and the excitement of Mulling coming and elevating. But people are logging on, so...

 

[sirvoo]

what's crazy is that if Lavin beat SDSU, I would've been in favor of him staying. The one problem with that is I suspect the Mullin hire was in the works during last season. No inside info on that, just a hunch.

 

[beast of the east]

what's crazy is that if Lavin beat SDSU, I would've been in favor of him staying. The one problem with that is I suspect the Mullin hire was in the works during last season. No inside info on that, just a hunch.

Without a solid 6 man rotation no less our only legitimate big, we had zero chance of beating SDSU. Thank goodness we didn't play a 16 seed. We would have lost to nearly anyone in the tourney without CO and only 5 other guys.

 

[salty dog]

what's crazy is that if Lavin beat SDSU, I would've been in favor of him staying. The one problem with that is I suspect the Mullin hire was in the works during last season. No inside info on that, just a hunch.

I believe you are right. At the Mullin HOF breakfast before the SH game their was an eerie silence regarding the present coach (Lavin). Seemed very out of place. Seeds of dismissal were already there.

 

[doodyny33]

When discussing Lavins legacy I definitely go both ways. I think he raised the excitement surrounding the program. The overall buzz and exposure improved.

Was there any real buzz outside this board beyond that first season, though?

There were some exciting moments for our fans after that season, but no one outside of New York cared. I'm sure Lavin is a nice guy, but he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. This was the best gig for him, if for no other reason than he was following a guy who couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.

IMO, I think there was definitely buzz during Lavin's first season. Didn't our seniors beat like 5 or 6 ranked teams? I mean, we didn't get the air play that a team like Duke would get obviously. But I do remember a few times where St. John's was a hot story on ESPN.

Just too bad that D.J. got injured before the NCAA Tournament. I think they may have been able to take a game if he was at full health.

 

[sirvoo]

what's crazy is that if Lavin beat SDSU, I would've been in favor of him staying. The one problem with that is I suspect the Mullin hire was in the works during last season. No inside info on that, just a hunch.

I believe you are right. At the Mullin HOF breakfast before the SH game their was an eerie silence regarding the present coach (Lavin). Seemed very out of place. Seeds of dismissal were already there.

Yes if that was the case I feel a bit sorry for Steve. It doesn't explain the "negotiations" and conflicting reports right after the SDSU game.

But I certainly get the vibe Chris and the administration were in talks during the year. A non-story now but imagine the &@:$-storm that would have caused if it got out during the season!

 

[monte]

what's crazy is that if Lavin beat SDSU, I would've been in favor of him staying. The one problem with that is I suspect the Mullin hire was in the works during last season. No inside info on that, just a hunch.

I believe you are right. At the Mullin HOF breakfast before the SH game their was an eerie silence regarding the present coach (Lavin). Seemed very out of place. Seeds of dismissal were already there.

Yes if that was the case I feel a bit sorry for Steve. It doesn't explain the "negotiations" and conflicting reports right after the SDSU game.

But I certainly get the vibe Chris and the administration were in talks during the year. A non-story now but imagine the &@:$-storm that would have caused if it got out during the season!

....Or if we had made a miracle run in the tourney. FWIW I have the same hunch as you.

 

[ras]

When discussing Lavins legacy I definitely go both ways. I think he raised the excitement surrounding the program. The overall buzz and exposure improved.

Was there any real buzz outside this board beyond that first season, though?

There were some exciting moments for our fans after that season, but no one outside of New York cared. I'm sure Lavin is a nice guy, but he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. This was the best gig for him, if for no other reason than he was following a guy who couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.

IMO, I think there was definitely buzz during Lavin's first season. Didn't our seniors beat like 5 or 6 ranked teams? I mean, we didn't get the air play that a team like Duke would get obviously. But I do remember a few times where St. John's was a hot story on ESPN.

Just too bad that D.J. got injured before the NCAA Tournament. I think they may have been able to take a game if he was at full health.

we weren't just beatning ranked teams, we were beating top 10 teams and gave Duke a spanking. Couple that w the recruiting class Lavin got and things looked great for us. Unfortunately what soured me on Lavin was last years complete lack of depth and only one BE calibre big man.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I think Mainman's sense of humor is sometimes unappreciated or not recognized.

you need an umbrella because they drip with so much sarcasm. I still don't understand how people don't get mailman's posts

But hey you never know. DLO still wants to kick mainman's ass

 

[mjmaherjr]

I think Mainman's sense of humor is sometimes unappreciated or not recognized.

Which is pretty weird considering MainMan is down to only about three non-sarcastic posts a year.

down to 1 if you exclude mets posts

 

[L J S A]

what's crazy is that if Lavin beat SDSU, I would've been in favor of him staying. The one problem with that is I suspect the Mullin hire was in the works during last season. No inside info on that, just a hunch.

I believe you are right. At the Mullin HOF breakfast before the SH game their was an eerie silence regarding the present coach (Lavin). Seemed very out of place. Seeds of dismissal were already there.

Yes if that was the case I feel a bit sorry for Steve. It doesn't explain the "negotiations" and conflicting reports right after the SDSU game.

But I certainly get the vibe Chris and the administration were in talks during the year. A non-story now but imagine the &@:$-storm that would have caused if it got out during the season!

Also the second time it's happened to Lavin -- UCLA was courting Pitino while still employing Lavin, and apparently strained the relationship.

Could explain some things too -- I would give weird quotes and dress inappropriately too in an effort to piss off my bosses if I knew I was toast.

 

[1and1sju]

Lavin and his agent continually told the local reporters that they were in negotiations w sju on an extension.

 

[redken]

Without going into details, all I can say is: Thank you, Coach Lavin, for resurrecting a fading program, for putting it back on the map -- not just locally, but nationally -- and creating excitement about it, and for leaving it in much better shape than you found it ... and for showing class by quietly and graciously slipping into the background once your time came to an end. Hope the future holds nothing but the best for you.

 

[sirvoo]

Lavin and his agent continually told the local reporters that they were in negotiations w sju on an extension.

that only raises my suspicion haha. who knows ...

 

[SJU14]

@AdamZagoria: Steve Lavin is close to signing an agreement w/ Fox Sports as their lead college basketball studio analyst.

 

[Andrew]

@AdamZagoria: Steve Lavin is close to signing an agreement w/ Fox Sports as their lead college basketball studio analyst.[/quot

That should be interesting.

 

[Red.Fans]

@AdamZagoria: Steve Lavin is close to signing an agreement w/ Fox Sports as their lead college basketball studio analyst.

He's not bad in that role with the exception of mentioning UCLA over and over.

Help me out here Dr. Fuchsia: would the proper term be pathological?