Zags: St. John's & Slice Part Ways

[Section9]

Sense Mullin has known for a while what new staff will look like. Once details of buyout are resolved this in my opinion will evolve quickly. The Mainman comedy routine will then end.

Doubt he is interested, but I would LOVE this! Definite value added.......we would undoubtedly win more games with PJ.

I am not so upset to lose Slice. However, I am disappointed that we are seemingly not entertaining an experienced coach. Once Slice walks, the lack of coaching experience on staff is alarming. No other way to spin it.

Just got MJMAHER vs Realfan flashback on old BEB

That,s not gonna happen. Realfan's not into lobster rolls.

 

[austour]

Ed Pinckney looked good wearing a St. John's cap a few months back.

Zero chance of this happening .. In fact a lot of Nova people couldn't wait for him to leave.. It is going to be Richmond which sounds great from a name standpoint but adds nothing to the experience this staff needs.

This would be my first objection to the Mullin regime. Replacing Slice with Mitch Richmond and not adding coaching experience to the staff is an obvious mistake. I would prefer they chose to fill a program need over friend/chemistry.

That said, still feeling very positive about the future.

I understand Happys point and yours but I am also in the fun camp that coaching is overrated. Furthermore while Slice had head coaching experience no one considered him to be a great x and o tactician. Richmond is great from a name standpoint and like coach Mullin was a winner on the court as a result of his continued hard work. If he can bring that as a member of the staff it will be fantastic.
From a timing standpoint his departure could not be better. We have no ships for 2017 as we are adding a former top 25 sophomore pg and a former top 50 junior forward. Perhaps a ship will open but there was no one Slice was so firmly entrenched with that we will loose as a result of his departure.
Lastly, and I hate to bring this up, but many were very critical that there was no minority on staff when it was first assembled. Now an opening came about and it appears from all accounts that it will be filled by Coach Richmond. Politically this is the right move.
Can PJ , Pete G, Tim W, Mike Rice all coach ?
Sure they can, but the media and others would have a field day if this position was filled by another 60 year old plus white male which would clearly hurt the program going forward.

Love Mullin so much, you're calling that a right move because it's politically correct? Have you lost your damn mind? And the desperate posters after you spinning this into a huge positive and downplaying Slice, this board is full of loonies since the hiring. Pass the kool aid please it's hot out.

To add NO ONE had Lovett top 25. NO ONE. His only top 50 ranking was 41 by Prep Stars. PS I noticed RSCI has their finals for class of 16 up and Shamori comes in at a very impressive 36. Just FYI.

If you are referring to my post I said we have no ships for 2017 as we are bringing in Simon and Clark , those were the 2 highly ranked players I was referring to without mentioning their names.
I always thought Lovett just cracked the top 100 , 94 to be exact.
Never said or alleged Lovett to be top 50.

My bad was reading as this year's incoming.

 

[capmaker]

 

[cpavin]

No way this can be spun into something positive. It was either a bad hire, or bad management of a problem that surfaced.

With a largely inexperienced staff, Richmond would be a foolish hire. It's lunacy to believe that building a top notch college program is based on a HOF player's resume or that it's an easy job. If that were the case, guys like Coach K wouldn't get paid a well deserved $5 million plus per season. A lot more people fail than succeed, and coaches typically rise to a certain level based on competence. There are a ton of guys not capable of being more than a D2 or D3 coach, and even more best suited to teach history and coach a HS team.

Get an experienced guy in here as an assistant.

Agreed. We need an experienced assistant coach/recruiter on the bench. Richmond at this point would not be a good hire. After we have an established, successful program down the road then they can go with Richmond.

SJU is just destined to be a small time program.

 

[cpavin]

Ed Pinckney looked good wearing a St. John's cap a few months back.

Zero chance of this happening .. In fact a lot of Nova people couldn't wait for him to leave.. It is going to be Richmond which sounds great from a name standpoint but adds nothing to the experience this staff needs.

Its small program thinking. Don't hire what you need hire a buddy. I'm disappointed in this. I'm sure Richmond will be a great coach down the line but he probably doesn't add to the staff what they currently need.

 

[cpavin]

52-70 head coaching record and didn't land a kid in his one year here.....something tells me there is someone out there that can do just as bad. It's not that hard to walk into a gym of 5 stars with a Kentucky sweatshirt on and say hey come play for cal.

That may be true but you conveniently left out his success recruiting at Pitt. I don't think anyone will argue that Slice is one of the top recruiters in the country. It is what it is. Matt seems to also be a top recruiter. Hopefully Matt continues his great recruiting and we aren't too impacted by losing Slice.

 

[RedStormNC]

Putting the "buddy" thing to the side, which I agree doesn't look good if he gets moved to assistant coach role, but did make the special assistant role seem logical

Let's assume that an African-American hire is ideal for all the reasons often cited(PR, recruiting etc)... who is available that would be a potentially viable and realistic candidate tthat would be a definite step up from the pluses Richmond might potentially bring or areas he lacks?

 

[cappy105]

i honestly don't know which way we should go, but seeing Mully not comfortable taking the bull by the horn with the whiteboard, id say go for a seasoned coach with great basketball IQ. I like PJ na dim sure there are a bunch out there that can be similar coaching pick ups.I even like seth greenberg, but he wouldn't be anything but a number 1 guy although he is still a local guy.

 

[usguard]

No way this can be spun into something positive. It was either a bad hire, or bad management of a problem that surfaced.

With a largely inexperienced staff, Richmond would be a foolish hire. It's lunacy to believe that building a top notch college program is based on a HOF player's resume or that it's an easy job. If that were the case, guys like Coach K wouldn't get paid a well deserved $5 million plus per season. A lot more people fail than succeed, and coaches typically rise to a certain level based on competence. There are a ton of guys not capable of being more than a D2 or D3 coach, and even more best suited to teach history and coach a HS team.

Get an experienced guy in here as an assistant.

Agreed. We need an experienced assistant coach/recruiter on the bench. Richmond at this point would not be a good hire. After we have an established, successful program down the road then they can go with Richmond.

SJU is just destined to be a small time program.[/quot

Coach K would not have done any better with the team we had last yr. Take away UK and dukes multi 5* players the get yr in and yr out they would be ordinary. Great programs take time Yes we can get there but it is not going to be overtime

 

[austour]

Coach K would have had back problems last year if he was asked to coach the redmen.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Sense Mullin has known for a while what new staff will look like. Once details of buyout are resolved this in my opinion will evolve quickly. The Mainman comedy routine will then end.

Doubt he is interested, but I would LOVE this! Definite value added.......we would undoubtedly win more games with PJ.

I am not so upset to lose Slice. However, I am disappointed that we are seemingly not entertaining an experienced coach. Once Slice walks, the lack of coaching experience on staff is alarming. No other way to spin it.

Just got MJMAHER vs Realfan flashback on old BEB

lol. Btw i just fun into a sju alum at the AirPort in Tokyo. Tallked to him for 5 minutes and told him about this site. He only knew about the School site

 

[usguard]

Sense Mullin has known for a while what new staff will look like. Once details of buyout are resolved this in my opinion will evolve quickly. The Mainman comedy routine will then end.

Doubt he is interested, but I would LOVE this! Definite value added.......we would undoubtedly win more games with PJ.

I am not so upset to lose Slice. However, I am disappointed that we are seemingly not entertaining an experienced coach. Once Slice walks, the lack of coaching experience on staff is alarming. No other way to spin it.

Just got MJMAHER vs Realfan flashback on old BEB

lol. Btw i just fun into a sju alum at the AirPort in Tokyo. Tallked to him for 5 minutes and told him about this site. He only knew about the School site

PERHAPS we find a talented newcomer. Maybe the next Bobby Knight

 

[dee]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

 

[salty dog]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

Kool-Aid drinkers thought drama would stop with Lavin's departure but it is perpetual.

 

[logen]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

 

[paultzman]

In simplest terms, no matter what side of fence you reside, it is about winning games. If Mullin regime can get the program on a consistent winning track, all this "stuff" will be moot. Let's give him his chance over next three years or so. If he can't accomplish that, we'll just have to accept the program is mediocre at best. I too like the talent being put together, so no harm in being optimistic.

 

[Ray Morgan]

This is New York. The honeymoon phase will not last long. some might consider it the height of hubris to think you can revive a program without an experienced bench coach. I don't know what to expect going forward, but do know that if the team doesn't look well coached this season, and the blowouts and weak defense continues, the griping and second guessing will get loud before the season ends.

 

[cpavin]

In simplest terms, no matter what side of fence you reside, it is about winning games. If Mullin regime can get the program on a consistent winning track, all this "stuff" will be moot. Let's give him his chance over next three years or so. If he can't accomplish that, we'll just have to accept the program is mediocre at best. I too like the talent being put together, so no harm in being optimistic.

I think we all agree about giving Mullin time to establish the program. But the bottom line is no matter how good of a coach you are you will not win without really good players. We just lost one of the top recruiters in the country so it can't be perceived as anything but disappointment. Matt is a really good recruiter so maybe we can overcome losing Slice but its still a major loss. I'm still holding out hope we can one day be a consistent top 20 program again.

 

[we are sju]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

 

[beast of the east]

You really kind of wish in this scenario that there was an experienced, competent AD in place to guide, manage, and even instruct Mullin on this staffing decision. Lavin completely bypassed the athletic director during his tenure at SJU and dealt directly with Rob Wile (chief of staff). Mullin cannot get any reasonable sports direction from Joe Oliva, and Gempeshaw who micromanages knows nothing more about managing an athletic department than his self professed "I like basketball so I am excited about Chris Mullin" comments upon his hire. One coach just prior to Jarvis got off (no pun intended) on the wrong foot not for dropping his pants, but for announcing his hire of assistants without Ed Manetta's knowledge or approval.

My guess is that Jack Kaiser would have instructed Chris to "go with a guy with more experience" than Mitch Richmond as an assistant, but in any event, wish there was some semblance of an infrastructure in place to support Mullin & co. in managing the basketball program