Zags: St. John's & Slice Part Ways

[usguard]

Thanks Beast for the reply

 

[we are sju]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

You are speculating about the future which may have been a little better last year simply because Obekpa would have been there. I think Lavin was a bad coach. I do not know about the laziness part simply because I was not privy to watch it. Do I believe he got lazy? Probably. I know his recruiting was uneven. At times he did get the type of players we have not seen in a long time. Bottom line just based off of results you could have made a case to keep him.
With that being said I was happy Mullin came home and had no problem with him replacing Lavin. But again that is solely based on the fact that I was fortunate enough to have watched him play. I would have been equally happy if Lavin was replaced by Walter Berry.

Mullin had a built in excuse for time in the roster he was left was a mess. You really can't judge him properly until the year after next year. My only point is in his first year with most giving him a pass, I thought he could have handled things better. And it is not just handing over the dry board to ST Jean. In a lot of huddles he seemed like an detached observer. I hope that changes whether we win 8 or 18 next year.

 

[redfazed]

Since his time as head coach at Manhattan, Slice has never remained in an assistant coaching job for more than one year. It's been 4 AC jobs in four years --Idaho, Pitt, UK, now SJU. I sense a pattern here...

 

[mjmaherjr]

Since his time as head coach at Manhattan, Slice has never remained in an assistant coaching job for more than one year. It's been 4 AC jobs in four years --Idaho, Pitt, UK, now SJU. I sense a pattern here...

the thing is pitt was a step up from idaho and kentucky was a huge step up from pitt and sju was coming home and also with an offer that was big time $$ guarantee which is a big thing for assistants.

This parting ways wasn't some mid life crisis

 

[monte]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

You are speculating about the future which may have been a little better last year simply because Obekpa would have been there. I think Lavin was a bad coach. I do not know about the laziness part simply because I was not privy to watch it. Do I believe he got lazy? Probably. I know his recruiting was uneven. At times he did get the type of players we have not seen in a long time. Bottom line just based off of results you could have made a case to keep him.
With that being said I was happy Mullin came home and had no problem with him replacing Lavin. But again that is solely based on the fact that I was fortunate enough to have watched him play. I would have been equally happy if Lavin was replaced by Walter Berry.

Mullin had a built in excuse for time in the roster he was left was a mess. You really can't judge him properly until the year after next year. My only point is in his first year with most giving him a pass, I thought he could have handled things better. And it is not just handing over the dry board to ST Jean. In a lot of huddles he seemed like an detached observer. I hope that changes whether we win 8 or 18 next year.

Don't disagree that he could have handled some things better. But we would have said the same thing about any new coach that we had here last year, let alone one that never coached at the college level before. As for Lavin, yes he did get players that we had not seen since Jarvis was here. But so did every other coach get great players here, except Norm. Of course out of the 4 classes that he recruited(not counting Norm's kids), he could barely fill out a roster 2 of those years. There was absolutely no excuse for that.....except laziness.

 

[redfazed]

Since his time as head coach at Manhattan, Slice has never remained in an assistant coaching job for more than one year. It's been 4 AC jobs in four years --Idaho, Pitt, UK, now SJU. I sense a pattern here...

the thing is pitt was a step up from idaho and kentucky was a huge step up from pitt and sju was coming home and also with an offer that was big time $$ guarantee which is a big thing for assistants.

This parting ways wasn't some mid life crisis

Agreed, the mid life crisis is the fiance who is 22 years younger than him.
Mullin is a strong personality who got the sh*t kicked out of him last year. I'm guessing he's not in the mood to give up more control to Slice at this point, if that's what really happened.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Since his time as head coach at Manhattan, Slice has never remained in an assistant coaching job for more than one year. It's been 4 AC jobs in four years --Idaho, Pitt, UK, now SJU. I sense a pattern here...

the thing is pitt was a step up from idaho and kentucky was a huge step up from pitt and sju was coming home and also with an offer that was big time $$ guarantee which is a big thing for assistants.

This parting ways wasn't some mid life crisis

Agreed, the mid life crisis is the fiance who is 22 years younger than him.
Mullin is a strong personality who got the sh*t kicked out of him last year. I'm guessing he's not in the mood to give up more control to Slice at this point, if that's what really happened.

while I have no clue about the younger fiancee influences and maybe Mullin expedited things I actually think it has to do with Mullin not having a strong enough personality as far as taking charge over everything so far

 

[we are sju]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

You are speculating about the future which may have been a little better last year simply because Obekpa would have been there. I think Lavin was a bad coach. I do not know about the laziness part simply because I was not privy to watch it. Do I believe he got lazy? Probably. I know his recruiting was uneven. At times he did get the type of players we have not seen in a long time. Bottom line just based off of results you could have made a case to keep him.
With that being said I was happy Mullin came home and had no problem with him replacing Lavin. But again that is solely based on the fact that I was fortunate enough to have watched him play. I would have been equally happy if Lavin was replaced by Walter Berry.

Mullin had a built in excuse for time in the roster he was left was a mess. You really can't judge him properly until the year after next year. My only point is in his first year with most giving him a pass, I thought he could have handled things better. And it is not just handing over the dry board to ST Jean. In a lot of huddles he seemed like an detached observer. I hope that changes whether we win 8 or 18 next year.

Don't disagree that he could have handled some things better. But we would have said the same thing about any new coach that we had here last year, let alone one that never coached at the college level before. As for Lavin, yes he did get players that we had not seen since Jarvis was here. But so did every other coach get great players here, except Norm. Of course out of the 4 classes that he recruited(not counting Norm's kids), he could barely fill out a roster 2 of those years. There was absolutely no excuse for that.....except laziness.

If Lavin had replaced any other coach except for the guy he replaced I would probably hate him as much as most do. I never thought we would make a tourney again. Lavin brought some hope back even if it became false hope. For replacing Norm and putting ST John's in a couple of brackets he gets slack from me.

As for Mullin, if he had looked like he was involved in the huddle and not waiting for a bus then I wouldn't have cared if they lost every game. Not sure what that was about last year but I would bet the ranch that someone mentioned it to him and you will see a more involved looking Mullin next year.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

You are speculating about the future which may have been a little better last year simply because Obekpa would have been there. I think Lavin was a bad coach. I do not know about the laziness part simply because I was not privy to watch it. Do I believe he got lazy? Probably. I know his recruiting was uneven. At times he did get the type of players we have not seen in a long time. Bottom line just based off of results you could have made a case to keep him.
With that being said I was happy Mullin came home and had no problem with him replacing Lavin. But again that is solely based on the fact that I was fortunate enough to have watched him play. I would have been equally happy if Lavin was replaced by Walter Berry.

Mullin had a built in excuse for time in the roster he was left was a mess. You really can't judge him properly until the year after next year. My only point is in his first year with most giving him a pass, I thought he could have handled things better. And it is not just handing over the dry board to ST Jean. In a lot of huddles he seemed like an detached observer. I hope that changes whether we win 8 or 18 next year.

Walter for special assistant role

 

[RedStormNC]

Article: Can St. John’s compensate for losing Barry Rohrssen?

http://www.todaysu.com/big-east-today/st-johns-red-storm/st-johns-compensate-losing-barry-rohrssen/

 

[monte]

Article: Can St. John’s compensate for losing Barry Rohrssen?

http://www.todaysu.com/big-east-today/st-johns-red-storm/st-johns-compensate-losing-barry-rohrssen/

What started out as an article questioning whether SJU would be able to get past the loss of Slice, ended with a vote of confidence that we can. Had the writer done some more homework, he would have known that Matt has done most of the heavy lifting so far. He mentioned Matt almost as an afterthought at the end of the article. All in all a positive write up. Think we'll be just fine.

 

[Knockout-Ned]

Has anyone ever questioned why Calipari let Slice go? Did he counter offer??

 

[beast of the east]

Has anyone ever questioned why Calipari let Slice go? Did he counter offer??

Maybe because we overpaid?

 

[logen]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

You are speculating about the future which may have been a little better last year simply because Obekpa would have been there. I think Lavin was a bad coach. I do not know about the laziness part simply because I was not privy to watch it. Do I believe he got lazy? Probably. I know his recruiting was uneven. At times he did get the type of players we have not seen in a long time. Bottom line just based off of results you could have made a case to keep him.
With that being said I was happy Mullin came home and had no problem with him replacing Lavin. But again that is solely based on the fact that I was fortunate enough to have watched him play. I would have been equally happy if Lavin was replaced by Walter Berry.

Mullin had a built in excuse for time in the roster he was left was a mess. You really can't judge him properly until the year after next year. My only point is in his first year with most giving him a pass, I thought he could have handled things better. And it is not just handing over the dry board to ST Jean. In a lot of huddles he seemed like an detached observer. I hope that changes whether we win 8 or 18 next year.

Don't disagree that he could have handled some things better. But we would have said the same thing about any new coach that we had here last year, let alone one that never coached at the college level before. As for Lavin, yes he did get players that we had not seen since Jarvis was here. But so did every other coach get great players here, except Norm. Of course out of the 4 classes that he recruited(not counting Norm's kids), he could barely fill out a roster 2 of those years. There was absolutely no excuse for that.....except laziness.

If Lavin had replaced any other coach except for the guy he replaced I would probably hate him as much as most do. I never thought we would make a tourney again. Lavin brought some hope back even if it became false hope. For replacing Norm and putting ST John's in a couple of brackets he gets slack from me.

As for Mullin, if he had looked like he was involved in the huddle and not waiting for a bus then I wouldn't have cared if they lost every game. Not sure what that was about last year but I would bet the ranch that someone mentioned it to him and you will see a more involved looking Mullin next year.

So Lavin gets a complete pass because you hated Roberts so much and Mullin gets criticized for the way you interpreted his body language from afar. What about the times he was involved in the huddle, do you think it was because someone mentioned it to him? Amazing to me the level of players willing to go play for an un-involved, waiting for a bus coach. I think I will trust their up close and personal opinion rather than that of some frustrated Freudian fans as to Mullin's involvement.

 

[we are sju]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

You are speculating about the future which may have been a little better last year simply because Obekpa would have been there. I think Lavin was a bad coach. I do not know about the laziness part simply because I was not privy to watch it. Do I believe he got lazy? Probably. I know his recruiting was uneven. At times he did get the type of players we have not seen in a long time. Bottom line just based off of results you could have made a case to keep him.
With that being said I was happy Mullin came home and had no problem with him replacing Lavin. But again that is solely based on the fact that I was fortunate enough to have watched him play. I would have been equally happy if Lavin was replaced by Walter Berry.

Mullin had a built in excuse for time in the roster he was left was a mess. You really can't judge him properly until the year after next year. My only point is in his first year with most giving him a pass, I thought he could have handled things better. And it is not just handing over the dry board to ST Jean. In a lot of huddles he seemed like an detached observer. I hope that changes whether we win 8 or 18 next year.

Don't disagree that he could have handled some things better. But we would have said the same thing about any new coach that we had here last year, let alone one that never coached at the college level before. As for Lavin, yes he did get players that we had not seen since Jarvis was here. But so did every other coach get great players here, except Norm. Of course out of the 4 classes that he recruited(not counting Norm's kids), he could barely fill out a roster 2 of those years. There was absolutely no excuse for that.....except laziness.

If Lavin had replaced any other coach except for the guy he replaced I would probably hate him as much as most do. I never thought we would make a tourney again. Lavin brought some hope back even if it became false hope. For replacing Norm and putting ST John's in a couple of brackets he gets slack from me.

As for Mullin, if he had looked like he was involved in the huddle and not waiting for a bus then I wouldn't have cared if they lost every game. Not sure what that was about last year but I would bet the ranch that someone mentioned it to him and you will see a more involved looking Mullin next year.

So Lavin gets a complete pass because you hated Roberts so much and Mullin gets criticized for the way you interpreted his body language from afar. What about the times he was involved in the huddle, do you think it was because someone mentioned it to him? Amazing to me the level of players willing to go play for an un-involved, waiting for a bus coach. I think I will trust their up close and personal opinion rather than that of some frustrated Freudian fans as to Mullin's involvement.

I criticized Lavin. And not just that I hated Norm, it is that the bar for being a ST John's basketball coach has been set really, really low since Lou left. I thought outside a clear upgrade or the face of the program coming he did just enough to warrant coming back. It would have most likely ended horribly but still.
And I would not call what my perception of Mullin criticism. I would prefer that he look more involved. It looked odd. It did. And again I saw him play and want him to succeed, so if it does not look right to me....
And again you can not agree with something someone does and still support him. This is not a cult.

 

[otis]

So Lavin gets a complete pass because you hated Roberts .....

Roberts had a tougher job than the TV Announcer when hired.

Roberts was the wrong person to be hired for the St. John's job after Jarvis. Thank you Father Harrington. Notwithstanding that fact, Roberts took over under far worse conditions than the TV Announcer did.

Roberts was hired with the stench of the Pittsburgh headline scandal and only 4 scholarship players on his roster causing him to use a walk on in his rotation (anyone recall the walk-on's name?). The NCAA announced sanctions against St.Johns before his first early signing period with competing coaches stressing to recruits that StJohn's was on NCAA probation. It has been reported that Harrington limited Roberts' budget for assistants and travel.

The TV Announcer took over the StJohn's program with a bumped up budget, and a full roster of talented seniors. "Lav" never had to deal with NCAA probation or a limited budget.

 

[we are sju]

So Lavin gets a complete pass because you hated Roberts .....

Roberts had a tougher job than the TV Announcer when hired.

Roberts was the wrong person to be hired for the St. John's job after Jarvis. Thank you Father Harrington. Notwithstanding that fact, Roberts took over under far worse conditions than the TV Announcer did.

Roberts was hired with the stench of the Pittsburgh headline scandal and only 4 scholarship players on his roster causing him to use a walk on in his rotation (anyone recall the walk-on's name?). The NCAA announced sanctions against St.Johns before his first early signing period with competing coaches stressing to recruits that StJohn's was on NCAA probation. It has been reported that Harrington limited Roberts' budget for assistants and travel.

The TV Announcer took over the StJohn's program with a bumped up budget, and a full roster of talented seniors. "Lav" never had to deal with NCAA probation or a limited budget.

Lavin was not a great coach. I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with that. He was also a self promoter and a Drama Queen.
HOWEVER. Would you have bet the kids college fund Norm would have gotten the Hardy team to the tourney? Would have been more difficult with Hardy and Brownlee coming off the bench , no?

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I understand posters concern for Mitch being promoted to AC but I think people are also underestimating the different impact he could have in that role. Right now he is not allowed to talk to any recruits off of campus (probably on too but who knows) and is not supposed to have any direct instruction with players. As an AC he will be able to sit in recruits living rooms with Mullin and Matt and talk about hall of fame careers. If he wants to be a full time D1 assistant then I gotta believe that he is motivated to work hard and perform well. He seemed engaged last year for the role he was in and I for one would look forward to seeing what he could bring to the table.

 

[cpavin]

Article: Can St. John’s compensate for losing Barry Rohrssen?

http://www.todaysu.com/big-east-today/st-johns-red-storm/st-johns-compensate-losing-barry-rohrssen/

Very positive article. Hopefully SJU can continue the strong recruiting. I think next year we will see a major improvement on the court which should also help recruiting.

 

[cpavin]

So Lavin gets a complete pass because you hated Roberts .....

Roberts had a tougher job than the TV Announcer when hired.

Roberts was the wrong person to be hired for the St. John's job after Jarvis. Thank you Father Harrington. Notwithstanding that fact, Roberts took over under far worse conditions than the TV Announcer did.

Roberts was hired with the stench of the Pittsburgh headline scandal and only 4 scholarship players on his roster causing him to use a walk on in his rotation (anyone recall the walk-on's name?). The NCAA announced sanctions against St.Johns before his first early signing period with competing coaches stressing to recruits that StJohn's was on NCAA probation. It has been reported that Harrington limited Roberts' budget for assistants and travel.

The TV Announcer took over the StJohn's program with a bumped up budget, and a full roster of talented seniors. "Lav" never had to deal with NCAA probation or a limited budget.

Lavin was not a great coach. I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with that. He was also a self promoter and a Drama Queen.
HOWEVER. Would you have bet the kids college fund Norm would have gotten the Hardy team to the tourney? Would have been more difficult with Hardy and Brownlee coming off the bench , no?

Lavin was not a great coach but he was a major step up from Norm. Lets hope the trend continues and that Mullin ends up being a major step up up from Lavin. Only time will tell how good Mullin will be. So far so good as he has a very good class coming in. We will see progress in wins this year. Lets hope the needle keeps pointing up. Really excited about the Lovett/Ponds backcourt.