Zags: St. John's & Slice Part Ways

[cpavin]

You really kind of wish in this scenario that there was an experienced, competent AD in place to guide, manage, and even instruct Mullin on this staffing decision. Lavin completely bypassed the athletic director during his tenure at SJU and dealt directly with Rob Wile (chief of staff). Mullin cannot get any reasonable sports direction from Joe Oliva, and Gempeshaw who micromanages knows nothing more about managing an athletic department than his self professed "I like basketball so I am excited about Chris Mullin" comments upon his hire. One coach just prior to Jarvis got off (no pun intended) on the wrong foot not for dropping his pants, but for announcing his hire of assistants without Ed Manetta's knowledge or approval.

My guess is that Jack Kaiser would have instructed Chris to "go with a guy with more experience" than Mitch Richmond as an assistant, but in any event, wish there was some semblance of an infrastructure in place to support Mullin & co. in managing the basketball program

Good point. A good AD can make a big difference.

 

[paultzman]

VItale defending his friend Slice while knocking Mullin;
Barry Rohrssen

"Most recently an assistant at St. John's, he has shined at Pittsburgh and Kentucky while also serving as a head coach at Manhattan. He is a relentless recruiter who has great knowledge of the game. He eats, drinks and sleeps basketball. Rohrssen has phenomenal contacts in recruiting.

He's a people-oriented guy who would represent any university in a positive way. Chris Mullin made a major turnover by asking St. John's buy out his contract."

http://espn.go.com/espn/dickvitale/story/_/id/16026187

 

[mjmaherjr]

Sense Mullin has known for a while what new staff will look like. Once details of buyout are resolved this in my opinion will evolve quickly. The Mainman comedy routine will then end.

Doubt he is interested, but I would LOVE this! Definite value added.......we would undoubtedly win more games with PJ.

I am not so upset to lose Slice. However, I am disappointed that we are seemingly not entertaining an experienced coach. Once Slice walks, the lack of coaching experience on staff is alarming. No other way to spin it.

Just got MJMAHER vs Realfan flashback on old BEB

lol. Btw i just fun into a sju alum at the AirPort in Tokyo. Tallked to him for 5 minutes and told him about this site. He only knew about the School site

PERHAPS we find a talented newcomer. Maybe the next Bobby Knight

I'll be on the lookout for the next Yao Ming. We will be in Shanghai at the end of the trip and I think Yao was from there so I have all my SJU gear with me for promoting.

So far everyone pretty short but not as short as Peruvians

 

[Mean Gene]

You really kind of wish in this scenario that there was an experienced, competent AD in place to guide, manage, and even instruct Mullin on this staffing decision. Lavin completely bypassed the athletic director during his tenure at SJU and dealt directly with Rob Wile (chief of staff). Mullin cannot get any reasonable sports direction from Joe Oliva, and Gempeshaw who micromanages knows nothing more about managing an athletic department than his self professed "I like basketball so I am excited about Chris Mullin" comments upon his hire. One coach just prior to Jarvis got off (no pun intended) on the wrong foot not for dropping his pants, but for announcing his hire of assistants without Ed Manetta's knowledge or approval.

My guess is that Jack Kaiser would have instructed Chris to "go with a guy with more experience" than Mitch Richmond as an assistant, but in any event, wish there was some semblance of an infrastructure in place to support Mullin & co. in managing the basketball program

Good point. A good AD can make a big difference.

I understand the point that you guys are making. I too do not believe that Mullin is above criticism, but we have to give him some time. As far as him having a AD in place to assist him in his decision making, let's remember that Mullin was General Manager in the NBA and ran a professional organization. so, it's not like he is totally a fish out of water here.

 

[bamafan]

You really kind of wish in this scenario that there was an experienced, competent AD in place to guide, manage, and even instruct Mullin on this staffing decision. Lavin completely bypassed the athletic director during his tenure at SJU and dealt directly with Rob Wile (chief of staff). Mullin cannot get any reasonable sports direction from Joe Oliva, and Gempeshaw who micromanages knows nothing more about managing an athletic department than his self professed "I like basketball so I am excited about Chris Mullin" comments upon his hire. One coach just prior to Jarvis got off (no pun intended) on the wrong foot not for dropping his pants, but for announcing his hire of assistants without Ed Manetta's knowledge or approval.

My guess is that Jack Kaiser would have instructed Chris to "go with a guy with more experience" than Mitch Richmond as an assistant, but in any event, wish there was some semblance of an infrastructure in place to support Mullin & co. in managing the basketball program

Good point. A good AD can make a big difference.

I understand the point that you guys are making. I too do not believe that Mullin is above criticism, but we have to give him some time. As far as him having a AD in place to assist him in his decision making, let's remember that Mullin was General Manager in the NBA and ran a professional organization. so, it's not like he is totally a fish out of water here.

Right, he just plays one on TV.

 

[paultzman]

You really kind of wish in this scenario that there was an experienced, competent AD in place to guide, manage, and even instruct Mullin on this staffing decision. Lavin completely bypassed the athletic director during his tenure at SJU and dealt directly with Rob Wile (chief of staff). Mullin cannot get any reasonable sports direction from Joe Oliva, and Gempeshaw who micromanages knows nothing more about managing an athletic department than his self professed "I like basketball so I am excited about Chris Mullin" comments upon his hire. One coach just prior to Jarvis got off (no pun intended) on the wrong foot not for dropping his pants, but for announcing his hire of assistants without Ed Manetta's knowledge or approval.

My guess is that Jack Kaiser would have instructed Chris to "go with a guy with more experience" than Mitch Richmond as an assistant, but in any event, wish there was some semblance of an infrastructure in place to support Mullin & co. in managing the basketball program

Good point. A good AD can make a big difference.

I understand the point that you guys are making. I too do not believe that Mullin is above criticism, but we have to give him some time. As far as him having a AD in place to assist him in his decision making, let's remember that Mullin was General Manager in the NBA and ran a professional organization. so, it's not like he is totally a fish out of water here.

Take Mullin out of equation, it is just time to get an AD.

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

Coach K would have had back problems last year if he was asked to coach the redmen.

He would have laid down AND fallen asleep on the scorer's table AND had back problems, depression and agita.

 

[usguard]

In simplest terms, no matter what side of fence you reside, it is about winning games. If Mullin regime can get the program on a consistent winning track, all this "stuff" will be moot. Let's give him his chance over next three years or so. If he can't accomplish that, we'll just have to accept the program is mediocre at best. I too like the talent being put together, so no harm in being optimistic.

Agree,he needs time but if he can not accomplish our goals I do not feel we have to accept a mediocre program. We keep moving forward with different coach one will click

 

[monte]

In simplest terms, no matter what side of fence you reside, it is about winning games. If Mullin regime can get the program on a consistent winning track, all this "stuff" will be moot. Let's give him his chance over next three years or so. If he can't accomplish that, we'll just have to accept the program is mediocre at best. I too like the talent being put together, so no harm in being optimistic.

I think we all agree about giving Mullin time to establish the program. But the bottom line is no matter how good of a coach you are you will not win without really good players. We just lost one of the top recruiters in the country so it can't be perceived as anything but disappointment. Matt is a really good recruiter so maybe we can overcome losing Slice but its still a major loss. I'm still holding out hope we can one day be a consistent top 20 program again.

I'm sorry we lost Slice, but I would have been far more concerned if we had lost Matt.

 

[L J S A]

In simplest terms, no matter what side of fence you reside, it is about winning games. If Mullin regime can get the program on a consistent winning track, all this "stuff" will be moot. Let's give him his chance over next three years or so. If he can't accomplish that, we'll just have to accept the program is mediocre at best. I too like the talent being put together, so no harm in being optimistic.

I think we all agree about giving Mullin time to establish the program. But the bottom line is no matter how good of a coach you are you will not win without really good players. We just lost one of the top recruiters in the country so it can't be perceived as anything but disappointment. Matt is a really good recruiter so maybe we can overcome losing Slice but its still a major loss. I'm still holding out hope we can one day be a consistent top 20 program again.

I'm sorry we lost Slice, but I would have been far more concerned if we had lost Matt.

I know some of the insiders don't agree with his methods or recruiting vision, but he's been hauling in nice players and busts his ass nonstop. Plus I think he's here for the long haul. Even if Slice was happy he'd have been gone in a few years given his track record.

 

[logen]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

 

[mjmaherjr]

In simplest terms, no matter what side of fence you reside, it is about winning games. If Mullin regime can get the program on a consistent winning track, all this "stuff" will be moot. Let's give him his chance over next three years or so. If he can't accomplish that, we'll just have to accept the program is mediocre at best. I too like the talent being put together, so no harm in being optimistic.

I think we all agree about giving Mullin time to establish the program. But the bottom line is no matter how good of a coach you are you will not win without really good players. We just lost one of the top recruiters in the country so it can't be perceived as anything but disappointment. Matt is a really good recruiter so maybe we can overcome losing Slice but its still a major loss. I'm still holding out hope we can one day be a consistent top 20 program again.

I'm sorry we lost Slice, but I would have been far more concerned if we had lost Matt.

Zach B agrees with you

 

[redmannorth]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

I truly don't know why you waste your time debating with posters who are either blind or have no grasp of what it takes to win. Is Coach Mullin above criticism , no, but what I do know if that we have the deepest and most talented roster since 1985 and that our expansion team roster was , as you said , very competitive in most games last season. No one would have done better with group assembled under the most difficult of circumstances.
As Paultzman said in another post if we win nothing will matter and he is correct. Joey T has had 2 new associate head coaches in 4 years but no one cares as he has gone to the post season every season.
As for me , I watch everything closely, but as long as the staff keeps working like they have to date will ignore Coach's flip flops, flowered shirts, sitting on the table, not being part of a huddle, etc.

 

[Section3]

In simplest terms, no matter what side of fence you reside, it is about winning games. If Mullin regime can get the program on a consistent winning track, all this "stuff" will be moot. Let's give him his chance over next three years or so. If he can't accomplish that, we'll just have to accept the program is mediocre at best. I too like the talent being put together, so no harm in being optimistic.

I think we all agree about giving Mullin time to establish the program. But the bottom line is no matter how good of a coach you are you will not win without really good players. We just lost one of the top recruiters in the country so it can't be perceived as anything but disappointment. Matt is a really good recruiter so maybe we can overcome losing Slice but its still a major loss. I'm still holding out hope we can one day be a consistent top 20 program again.

For me, while losing Slice is a disappointment, it is more a case of the circumstances (1 year, presumably a friend of Mulin) and the future potential. . .not based on lost production as he had not brought anyone in to date. Since I do not know the circumstances I don't see it necessarily as an indictment of the staff/program. . .as has been suggested, it could very well be a case of a disconnect between expectations. . .Personally, it is my opinion that he came here because his role, at Ky, was limited to recruiting (and he was not the lead recruiter), had a relationship with Mullin and probably thought he would be a "real" coach at SJ. . .when expectations didn't meet reality, other issues were introduced (e.g. recruiting decisions).

With all that said, it will come down to whether our staff can get the best out of the players - not whether we will get the players as we have gotten players and will continue to get players. Lavin, with all his failings, proved that SJ can successfully recruit nationally as long as the staff works at it.

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

His speciality is recruiting and we didn't see results from him. Doesn't seem like a big loss.

Duhhh he only joined st johns last spring. Not much time to recruit. Personally the whole program is beginning to stink even to those of us on Kool aid. It just never ends. The games are rarely if ever exciting. More like boredom. The best thing we have going for us is the band and dance team . The whole program is a joke and Slice is running away before it taints his own marketability. It is no wonder that attendance is low and enthusiasm barely negliglible.

The whole program is BEGINNING to stink? I never understood the Kool Aid references because IMO Mullin needs to be given a fair shot (read time) to see what he can do. Obviously we could do that Jarvis, with Roberts and with Lavin but we can't with Mullin. Bottom line, in a year, his team of coaches (read Matt A and IMO the name recognition of Mullin primarily to be fair) have recruited more talent, albeit on paper, than we have seen since the Barkley / Artest days. real talent, not head case talent. I don't know why Rohressen didn't work out but I believe that he is on a 3-4 year string of one year jobs so maybe part of the fault is his, but that is pure speculation on my part. Am I a Kool Aid drinker because I believe giving Mullin a fair shot is reasonable? That these hackneyed criticisms of his dress, body language and the fact that he didn't dominate every huddle are ridiculous make me a shill? I guess - the funny thing is, and there is an irony here somewhere, the same geniuses criticizing his delegation are begging him to hire coaching retreads he can delegate to. Me, if giving Mullin an opportunity to show what he can do with legitimate D1 talent is drinking Kool Aid that I sign up for a Big Gulp.

You miss the point. By year 3 Norm had to go. He was a disaster. At the end Jarvis had to go and unfortunately the NIT win pushed back his departure and put us in the situation we now find ourselves in. I am not really sure Lavin had to go. It was debatable. I was OK with him leaving for a clear upgrade or for the face of the program whether he was an upgrade or not.
Mullin is not above criticism, no one is. He needs to do better with some things that have nothing to do with wins and losses. I am going to criticize him if I don't agree with some of the things he does. I am just never under any circumstance call for him to be removed. That is really the only difference from the past coaches for me. Do I think he should sit on a table or have ST jean coach the team? NO. Would I want someone else to coach the team? NO!

We just disagree because I think you are the one missing the point. If the best you can come come up with is sitting on a table and input from an assistant coach IMO you and others are just grasping at straws to vent and criticize. NO ONE knows what kind of coach Mullin will be and it is not about being above criticism, it is about giving him time to show his stuff one way or the other. His 1st year coaching he put an extremely makeshift squad on the court and was reasonably competitive under the circumstances in a very good league IMO.
But you completely lose me with your comment about Lavin because you are more put out by a guy sitting on a table than one who was on a first name basis with more maitre d's than he was high school or AAU coaches after years of being here. I think less of Lavin than you do Roberts so any talk of retaining him under any circumstances just leaves me shaking my head. Does anyone not getting treatment somewhere think Lavin would have anything resembling the roster we will put on the floor next year were he still here?

I truly don't know why you waste your time debating with posters who are either blind or have no grasp of what it takes to win. Is Coach Mullin above criticism , no, but what I do know if that we have the deepest and most talented roster since 1985 and that our expansion team roster was , as you said , very competitive in most games last season. No one would have done better with group assembled under the most difficult of circumstances.
As Paultzman said in another post if we win nothing will matter and he is correct. Joey T has had 2 new associate head coaches in 4 years but no one cares as he has gone to the post season every season.
As for me , I watch everything closely, but as long as the staff keeps working like they have to date will ignore Coach's flip flops, flowered shirts, sitting on the table, not being part of a huddle, etc.

As you so poignantly write RMN:
"No one would have done better with the group assembled under the most difficult of circumstances!!!"
No one. Not the Master Wooden; not the Big Indian; not the Slick R P, not the successfully wheeling J C; not "back is better" Mike K;
And Not, as the great Oz once said: not no way, not no how ANYONE would have done better 2015-16.
:lol:

We have:
A knowledgeable and motivated Head Coach and Slice-less staff,
We have a good group of players already on board;
We have a once glorious program
Inching (patience boys) back
to glory with the to best of HS players interested...elite players
And there is a proverbial bottom line:
We live in a wonderful time to be SJU fans.
We are fortunate.
We are ready.
We are St. Johns!

 

[bamafan]

If no one could have done better than Chris last year including Coach K that means Mo is as good a coach as Coach K. Therefore, I look forward to many final fours and National Championships for SJU in the very near future.

 

[fun]

If no one could have done better than Chris last year including Coach K that means Mo is as good a coach as Coach K. Therefore, I look forward to many final fours and National Championships for SJU in the very near future.

This is a completely stupid. If you couldn't have cooked a delicious soup with a base of pus and excrement and neither could Julia Child does that means you're as good a cook as Julia Child? No. Therefore, shut up.

 

[bamafan]

If no one could have done better than Chris last year including Coach K that means Mo is as good a coach as Coach K. Therefore, I look forward to many final fours and National Championships for SJU in the very near future.

This is a completely stupid. If you couldn't have cooked a delicious soup with a base of pus and excrement and neither could Julia Child does that means you're as good a cook as Julia Child? No. Therefore, shut up.

Sorry, didn't know (in your words) we had a team full of pus and excrement. You probably don't even think that it is just that you haven't outgrown your infantile obsession with your own feces.

 

[usguard]

NOT knowing contract law perhaps you lawyers .can explain if your Co wants you to stay and continue to work but you say sorry I am not getting along and its you who decides I want out how does it warrant a buy out.Unless what is making you leave are breaches in the contract specific to your reasons for requesting to leave

 

[beast of the east]

NOT knowing contract law perhaps you lawyers .can explain if your Co wants you to stay and continue to work but you say sorry I am not getting along and its you who decides I want out how does it warrant a buy out.Unless what is making you leave are breaches in the contract specific to your reasons for requesting to leave

I deal with these kind of agreements. Generally speaking, employment contracts do not involve any severance if the employee voluntarily resigns, or if there is termination with cause (which is typically well defined). Often for high level employees, if the employer terminates without cause, then there is a severance. In this case, Mullin may have decided that it is best for the university to move away from slice, and there could have been a payout. The severance is typically well defined in the agreement, usually one year at a minimum up to the term of the contract.