Syracuse molestation allegation

My work with mental illness and substance abuse disorders has yielded the opportunity to cooperate on research projects with national experts on both adult and child physical and sexual abuse survival and treatment, and in a more limited way to address the pathology and disposition of both criminally responsible and civil committment sexual predators. Up close there is none of the certitude abounding on this site and in the mass media, much more a "Heart of Darkness" awareness, "the horror, the horror". This is true of not only the victims, but the many perpetrators who are former victims, and even the primary perpetrators, who even when appropriately housed in a total institution, are further imprisoned not only by their status as our most reviled miscreants (separate units for sexual predators), but are truly wired wrong.

One of the presenters I saw at the Columbia Faculty Forum on Drugs and Society pioneered intrensively supervised community release for sexual predators about to max out their prison sentences (noting in his presentation that many perpetrators of sexual violence seem to age out of it with diminshed libido in their sixties, but not pedophiles).

I am personally aware of a civil committment male sexual abuse victim who managed to commit vehicular homicide with a stolen truck used in an attempt to return to his rapist to be further molested.

Commentary on the legalities of this situation are well-handled by the many attorney members of this site and I have hated whining Jim Boeheim since I saw NYU dominate his team when he played next to Dave Bing in the old Garden. It's just that glib throwaway comments about this topic have a little bit of whistling in the dark about them and serve to heighten the underlying sense of horror.
 
I listened to some of the Bobby Davis/Laurie Fine tape.

She is one sicko lady.

Anyway, it is in Bernie's biography that when JB took over as head coach of the 'Cuse from Roy Danforth in 1976, he hired two assistants, Bernie Fine and Rick Pitino. 

We all know about Ricky and the lady in the Italian restaurant in Louisville.

Now we are finding out about the Fines.

I guess JB wasn't such a good judge of character.

Timmy Welsh worked for JB too, and vouched for Bernie's character.

What a cluster.....!
 
 

The obscurance and diffusion has begun in the press. Lupica (BC grad) whom I love as a young peoples novelist, cautions us today not to believe our lying ears.
Bernie is innocent until proven guilty and forget about those tapes which will never see the light of day in court.
Penn State was much worse because someone there saw the crime with his eyes. We only confirmed, with our very fallible ears, what everyone connected with the Syracuse police suspected or knew for 12 plus years, and what many connected with the team likely suspected or knew for longer than that.
While coaches at the time were taking phones out of the rooms of players on the road to protect them, Syracuse was allowing chidren to bunk with adults; but, no one knew anything.
Oh, and by the way, Lupica grew up next to Syracuse......not that that has anything to do with it.
 
Lupica is such a front runner, in terms of ganging up on people or athletes who down and doesn't allow for any comments from his readership. I generally disregard any of his columns.
 
You do realize that a large percentage of rapes are never reported. Usually as the victim is embarassed or scared. No difference here once the kid turned 18.
 

There's actually quite a few differences here. No one's alleging rape, that's one difference. The allegation is that Fine touched the boy where his bathing suit covers. And shirley there's a difference between an adult touching a child's genitals, as opposed an adult to touching another adult's genitals. One cannot be consensual and is a crime, whereas the other can be consensual and is considered courtship. (Please to be sparing me psychological claptrap about how the poor 27 year old was under the post traumatic Svengali sway of Bernie Fine.) Then a third difference would be that the victim in this case came forward and reported the alleged abuse and has been talking about it for 10 years to anyone who'll listen including the police and Chris Berman, so he's evidently neither too scared or embarassed to talk about it.
 

But besides that I was right on the money, right? Oh, well. He did wait until his late 20's to start talking to all and sundry though. Given that you're not prone to believe the psychological claptrap, which was what I was trying to get at, that doesn't matter either I would assume.
 
 Some folks don't think Boeheim had actual knowledge of the "relationship" yet wise ass went on national television and said "I know this kid", "he is telling a thousand lies", "for money", "I have known Bernie Fine for 50 years", yada, yada.........well now it looks like the Syracuse attorneys wrote a nice retraction for him but this guy's reputation is soiled and it could not have happened to a nicer program than New York's Team!

Hey Jimmy B......you LOVE negative publicity? You got it now!
 
 JIMBO HAD TO KNOW ABOUT BERNIES SEXCAPADES...IF HE DIDN'T THEN HE SHOULD BE CAPT OF THE TITANIC....BTW,THOSE SYR COPS BLOCKING THE DA FROM REVIEWING BERNIES RECORD SHOULD RISK THEIR PENSIONS
 
There are a ton of statistics that verify how sexually abused children are many times more likely to become drug and alcohol abusers, suicide victims, and even perpetrators themselves. Without getting too graphic, I don't think the alleged rape by Sandusky (it would be hard to think there was forceable penetration without a kid screaming) would cause more damage that what Fine allegedly did.

I hope these guys are not beyond statutes of limitations, have their day in court, and if found guilty, are given long prison sentences. 
 
 JIMBO HAD TO KNOW ABOUT BERNIES SEXCAPADES...IF HE DIDN'T THEN HE SHOULD BE CAPT OF THE TITANIC....BTW,THOSE SYR COPS BLOCKING THE DA FROM REVIEWING BERNIES RECORD SHOULD RISK THEIR PENSIONS
 

You mean those Syracuse cops whose boss (Syracuse Chief of Police) is former Syracuse All American Guard Dennis Duval? Well, at least Dennis graduated 2 years (1974) before Jim and Bernie started their gig....
 
There are a ton of statistics that verify how sexually abused children are many times more likely to become drug and alcohol abusers, suicide victims, and even perpetrators themselves. Without getting too graphic, I don't think the alleged rape by Sandusky (it would be hard to think there was forceable penetration without a kid screaming) would cause more damage that what Fine allegedly did.

I hope these guys are not beyond statutes of limitations, have their day in court, and if found guilty, are given long prison sentences. 
 

Didn't a NYC high school coach run afoul of the Massachusetts statute of limitations and Fine may have to deal with satute where final four occured as well as New York statute.
 
There are a ton of statistics that verify how sexually abused children are many times more likely to become drug and alcohol abusers, suicide victims, and even perpetrators themselves. Without getting too graphic, I don't think the alleged rape by Sandusky (it would be hard to think there was forceable penetration without a kid screaming) would cause more damage that what Fine allegedly did.

I hope these guys are not beyond statutes of limitations, have their day in court, and if found guilty, are given long prison sentences. 
 

Didn't a NYC high school coach run afoul of the Massachusetts statute of limitations and Fine may have to deal with satute where final four occured as well as New York statute.
 

Bob Oliva of Christ the King?
 
But besides that I was right on the money, right? Oh, well. He did wait until his late 20's to start talking to all and sundry though. Given that you're not prone to believe the psychological claptrap, which was what I was trying to get at, that doesn't matter either I would assume.
 
I might be inclined to believe it if there were any evidence that it were true. In fact, most crime victims despise the people who victimize them - as the weak always despise the strong - and avoid any social intercourse with them. Outside masochists most want to see perpetrators punished. Here the victim manages to find an intimate and highly private relationship that rewards the perpetrator with an orgasm. That's unusual. Like, no one who's had their lunch money stolen in the playground seeks out the bully 20 years later and tries to get robbed again and then gives him a handjob. That would be similarly unusual. Yes, sex is different and I don't doubt that some strange bonding can occur among childen who are sexualized at an early age (Mary Letourneau) but it's outside the norm for an alleged victim of sexual assault to seek out further sexual contact with their abuser. It follows that this was a choice - if it were involuntary more people would have behaved similarly.

Is it likely is that the Sandusky* so warped the kid's sexual identity that he's now a promiscuous adult who makes bad choices and enters into dangerous relationships? Yes. Can you blame that on Fine? Yes. Did it create such a compulsion that a 27 year old could not resist it? Well, no. "A promiscuous adult who makes bad choices and enters into dangerous relationships" describes pretty much every woman I ever dated. And most of their resistance was quite adequate.

At the risk of wandering off the reservation - because I know people hate that - but I was struck when the allegation arose against Herman Cain, when the alleged victim said that Cain assaulted her but then stopped when she told him that she had a boyfriend. I wondered whether that was all it took to stop a crime, telling the person attacking you that you're in a relationship, and if it worked how stupid would feel people like those nurses who were murdered by Richard Speck when they just could have said "Richard, stop strangling me, I'm engaged to be married." This strikes me the same way. Unusual.

* a maneuver soon to be included in the DSM4
 
There are a ton of statistics that verify how sexually abused children are many times more likely to become drug and alcohol abusers, suicide victims, and even perpetrators themselves. Without getting too graphic, I don't think the alleged rape by Sandusky (it would be hard to think there was forceable penetration without a kid screaming) would cause more damage that what Fine allegedly did.

I hope these guys are not beyond statutes of limitations, have their day in court, and if found guilty, are given long prison sentences. 
 

Didn't a NYC high school coach run afoul of the Massachusetts statute of limitations and Fine may have to deal with satute where final four occured as well as New York statute.
 

Bob Oliva of Christ the King?
 

I would think that the Feds that are handling the investigation are going to check if Fine was with any accuser out of NYS.
If anything more surfaces I think Boeheim's days are numbered.
There's no way he coaches one day in the ACC.
 
You mean those Syracuse cops whose boss (Syracuse Chief of Police) is former Syracuse All American Guard Dennis Duval? Well, at least Dennis graduated 2 years (1974) before Jim and Bernie started their gig....
 
_________________________
CR - -

Boeheim did coach Dennis Devaul at Syracuse Univerisity. The men remain friends today.

Boeheim began coaching at Syracuse University as a Grad Assistant in 1969 and moved to become Assistant Coach to Roy Danforth taking over as head coach in 1975. Devaul graduated in 1974 meaning that Boeheim coached Devaul all of his 4 seasons at SU. As evidence that Boeheim and Devaul have remained close over the years is the fact that Boeheim has named Devaul to a leadership in the Boeheim Foundation. (see link)

LINK: Devaul member of Boeheim Foundation
http://www.jimboeheim.com/foundation/board.aspx
 
"...The Rev. Robert Hoatson, president of Road to Recovery, a group that supports victims of sexual abuse, said the dismissal of Bernie Fine was appropriate but didn't go far enough.

"I think Jim Boeheim should be fired or resign as well," Hoatson said Monday. "These boys were members of the basketball program. Jim Boeheim's responsibility is to oversee that program, and the children were not safe on his watch...."

The death knell?

http://www.charter.net/news/read.php?rip_id=<D9RA38J80@news.ap.org>&ps=1013
 
There isn't an NCAA coach in the country who doesn't know if they change the brand of toilet paper in the locker room. Of course, he knew.
 
 http://ht.ly/7IEi7

Former Syracuse Police Chief Dennis DuVal knew about Bernie Fine complaint in 2002
Published: Tuesday, November 29, 2011, 10:58 AM Updated: Tuesday, November 29, 2011, 12:31 PM
By Robert A. Baker / The Post-Standard The Post-Standard


Dennis DuVal, Syracuse’s former police chief and ex-Syracuse University basketball player, was aware in 2002 of child-molesting allegations against SU associate head basketball coach Bernie Fine, the current police chief said today.

Police Chief Frank Fowler issued a news release this morning saying DuVal was aware of the accusations from former SU ball boy Bobby Davis after Davis spoke to a Syracuse police detective in 2002.

» Read the full transcript of Chief Fowler's news release

"The Syracuse Police Chief at that time, Dennis DuVal, was made aware of the allegations against Bernie Fine," Fowler said in a long explanation of the city's handling of the call.

DuVal refused to answer any questions Monday when contacted by a Post-Standard reporter.

He wouldn’t say whether he was aware of the accusations in 2002, nor whether he’d talked to any law enforcement offcials in the past two weeks, when Davis’ allegations became public.

When reached by phone Monday, DuVal said, "I’m not going to talk to you about it. I hope you respect that. It’s been a long time. I’m not going to get into a discussion about that. Not gonna happen."

DuVal played for SU from 1972 to 1974. Fine became assistant basketball coach at SU in 1976.

DuVal retired as police chief in August 2004 after serving in that capacity for three years and working for the department for 26 years. He could not be reached today following Fowler's news release.

DuVal played two seasons in the National Basketball Association -- one year with the Washington Bullets and a year with the Atlanta Hawks. His career ended in 1976 with the now-defunct Syracuse Centennials of the Eastern Basketball Association.

The question of who knew about the allegations in 2002 is the subject of an investigation by the Onondaga County District Attorney’s Office. District Attorney William Fitzpatrick said his office was never told.

Fowler's statement confirms some of the details provided to The Post-Standard in 2002 by Davis and his former girlfriend, Danielle Roach of Camillus, but differs in some small aspects.



Enlarge The Post-Standard September 22, 2002 - Syracuse Police Chief Dennis Duval takes questions from reporters during tonight's press conference to announce the arrest of two suspects in the rape of a 9 year-old girl in Syracuse. Suzanne Dunn / The Post-Standard

Dennis DuVal: Former Syracuse police chief and Syracuse Orange basketball star gallery (23 photos)




The chief said that Roach contacted an attorney, who gave her the name of Syracuse police Detective Doug Fox of the Abused Persons Unit.

The attorney notified Fox that he may be getting a phone call from a female who wanted to speak to him about a sexual abuse case, Fowler said. He said several weeks later, Roach contacted Fox and told him that Bernie Fine had sexually abused her friend.

About a month later, Fox took a call from Davis - whom Fowler did not identify in his release - who told the detective he was calling from Utah, Fowler said. In a brief phone conversation, the alleged victims said Bernie Fine had sexually abused him while growing up and the abuse had occurred while he stayed at the Fine home, the chief said.

Davis told the detective the abuse had occurred at least 12 years earlier, Fowler said. Fox informed the victim the statute of limitations had expired and authorities would be precluded by law from making an arrest, Fowler said.

The chief said that Fox told the victim that if he wished to meet with him in person, or if he was aware of any current victims, he would like the victim to share additional information. The victim believed he knew the first names of possible victims and that if he learned their last names, he would call back, Fowler said.

"Det. Fox notified his supervisor in the Abused Persons Unit and it was decided that unless the victim met with the detective or the victim was able to provide names of other victims, then an investigation would not be initiated," Fowler said. "The Syracuse Police chief at that time, Dennis DuVal, was made aware of the allegations against Bernie Fine. Due to the fact that no investigation was started, Det. Fox did not prepare any formal reports."

In October 2002, Davis told The Post-Standard he had called Fox about the alleged abuse. The phone call lasted three to five minutes, Davis said in the interview. He told Fox he'd been sexually abused by someone who worked at Syracuse University, Davis said.

"He said, 'When did this happen to you?'" Davis recalled in a 2002 interview. "I said, 'A long time ago.' (Fox) said, 'We really can't do anything for you ... you're too old now.'"

Davis said he never identified Fine as the abuser in his conversation with Fox, and that Fox never asked for a name. He said he didn't recall Fox ever saying Fine's name, either.

"I said, 'Do you know anything about this?' (Fox) goes, 'Go on, I have a pretty good idea who you are talking about, '" Davis said. "I said, 'Do you know who I'm talking about?' He said, 'I kind of have a good idea.'"

Davis said he called the police while he was living in Utah in the summer of 2002. He was driving when he made the call, he said.

Davis, in his 2002 interview with The Post-Standard, said Fox asked him if he knew of any minors who had been abused by the same man. Davis said he told Fox he didn't know for sure if the abuser had molested anyone else. But Davis said he provided the detective with the names of some youths who were friends of Fine's sons and who hung around Fine's house.

Davis said he told Fox that Fine was exhibiting some of the same behaviors that he had with Davis: demanding to see the children's report cards and grabbing their legs.

"I said, 'No, I don't know anything for sure. I just see symptoms that something might be happening, '" Davis said he told Fox.

Davis said the detective told him to call back if he ever knew for sure.

In November 2002, police spokesman Sgt. Thomas Connellan told The Post-Standard that the police department had never opened an investigation of Fine. Connellan would not comment then on whether Davis had called police and made an allegation that he was a victim of sexual abuse.

"We don't have an investigation, nor did we ever have an investigation," Connellan said then.

Roach gave a sworn statement Nov. 21 of this year to Syracuse police saying that after police did not initiate an investigation, she called an assistant district attorney multiple times in 2002 and left messages about an SU basketball coach sexually abusing a friend of hers.

John O'Brien contributed to this story. Contact John O'brien at jobrien@syracuse.com or 470-2187.
 
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