Syracuse molestation allegation

[/quote]

Penn St. is much worse.
They saw the rape and ignored it.[/quote] 


Who is "they" that you refer to?

Fine's alleged victim reported the actions to the police who in turn told Syracuse University; SU did nothing.

The graduate assistant at PSU reported the actions to Paterno who told the Athletic Director; PSU did nothing.

Both institutions are wrong.

Both PSU are guilty by their attempts to circle the wagons to protect members of their sport families.

Not sure how you can say one is "much worse" than the other.

One distinguishing fact between between the PSU and SU scandals is that the identity of Fine's alleged victim was know to SU, yet for reason only perhaps Jake Crothemel and "Buzz" Shaw know SU chose not to contact or assist the victim despite the fact that Fine was and continues to be an employee of the University. Also note that Fine's alleged victim was a representative of the institution at the time the alleged incidents (plural) and as such SU owed the minor a duty to supervise him on the away team basketball trips that he accompanied the SU team.

If anyone wishes to follow this story then please check the Syracuse Post Standard website for articles that report that the County District Attorney is accusing the Syracuse Police Department of a cover up of the 2002 complaint.

Was there a cover up?

Guess who the Syracuse Chief of Police was in 2002.

Answer: "Sweet D" Dennis Duval who enjoyed a good playing career during the 1970's on the Syracuse University basketball team and 2 seasons in the NBA.
 
Mrs. Fine's seeming complicity does change this case in my mind.

I know here in NJ, some of the litigation involving priests allegedly "started" close to the age of consent.

I understand the psychology involved with abuse that starts at a young age and continues thereafter, i.e., after 16, 17 or 18 but the cases I have a real problem with are the ones where the "abuse" starts at 16/17 and allegedly goes on into the 20's and here in Fine's case into the age of 28, that is still an issue with me. Even if Davis' began at 12 (who knows if it did) why does he let go on to the age of 28? Why did it stop then?

There was a guy who wrote a play about priest abuse who said it started at 17 and went on into his 30's, I just don't buy that. Sorry. Of all the Catholic church cases it has been estimated by independent sources that a high percentage of the lawsuits have been completely unfounded but with sleazy lawyers and willing liars the church has been socked with tons of judgments. Don't get me wrong they deserve a lot of blame for how it was handled.

I am jumping to a huge conclusion here, but BF sounds to me like he has sexual orientation issues, and "hooked up" with the wrong characters who see a "payday" in the making. Just my opinion, we'll see.

Now, the incidents of true sexual abuse happen in all walks of life and all types of settings, boy scouts, ministers, rabbis, priests, coaches, dentists, lawyers, doctors, truck drivers, plumbers, etc., you can't really generalize when it comes to sexual predators. Someone reported that if the protestant church was one organization, and not many, the percentage is just as high if not higher than the Catholic church, but the media reports focused on the Catholic church for a whole variety of other reasons.
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Put the criminal, civil and sexuality aspects of the situation aside, if the allegations are true, what Bernie and Laurie Fine did (and didn't do) was morally reprehensible.
 
Dead man walking............but never underestimate the power of Syracuse's great communications and broadcasting school whose graduates have successfully managed to under exploit and diminish literally dozens of player scandals with basketball players over the past 30 years; and, with exerience of the administration to repeatedly pump out public denials [after careful legal investigation by our in house review board in concert with the Syracuse police department etc................Billy Bob will be playing in tonight's game against whomever]. The have become among the best at it.
To put some perspective on the kids involved, think about the chance for a 9 year old to become the batboy for the Yankees; however, in Syracuse, the ball boy job is much bigger than that. Bernie, in Syracuse, is not like Joe Gerardi, he is more like Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays. He's a king and he is powerful. It's hard to really understand till you live in a place like Syracuse or Gainsville, or Athens, or, even South Bend..
Mrs. Fine's comments tell the story of a true lack of respect for moral obligations. Penn State fired the AD and the President. This situation calls for that and more now that Mrs. Fine has spoken unwittingly and candidly,'off the record'..
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Very true. Their communications dept is legendary and permeates all media outlets. It will be interesting
to see how they soft soap this mess.
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Would guess that their communications department has strong ties to ESPN. If anything, ESPN has been accused of being overzealous in their reporting of this story. Either way the story is out and it's already way to big a national story.
 
Dead man walking............but never underestimate the power of Syracuse's great communications and broadcasting school whose graduates have successfully managed to under exploit and diminish literally dozens of player scandals with basketball players over the past 30 years; and, with exerience of the administration to repeatedly pump out public denials [after careful legal investigation by our in house review board in concert with the Syracuse police department etc................Billy Bob will be playing in tonight's game against whomever]. The have become among the best at it.
To put some perspective on the kids involved, think about the chance for a 9 year old to become the batboy for the Yankees; however, in Syracuse, the ball boy job is much bigger than that. Bernie, in Syracuse, is not like Joe Gerardi, he is more like Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays. He's a king and he is powerful. It's hard to really understand till you live in a place like Syracuse or Gainsville, or Athens, or, even South Bend..
Mrs. Fine's comments tell the story of a true lack of respect for moral obligations. Penn State fired the AD and the President. This situation calls for that and more now that Mrs. Fine has spoken unwittingly and candidly,'off the record'..
Click to expand...
 

Very true. Their communications dept is legendary and permeates all media outlets. It will be interesting
to see how they soft soap this mess.
Click to expand...
 

Would guess that their communications department has strong ties to ESPN. If anything, ESPN has been accused of being overzealous in their reporting of this story. Either way the story is out and it's already way to big a national story.
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Yeah, but conspiracy theories involving a turncoat basketball program make things so much more fun.

That said, right now the cabal of Costas, Albert and the ghost of Marty Glickman are meeting to make sure this Fine mess is swept under the orange rug. 
 
I really don't see much difference between Paterno and Boeheim, Boeheim's fate should be no different IMO.
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We know what Paterno knew, more or less. We still don't know what Boeheim knows. Although it was on his watch if even if he didn't know, he should have known.
 
 I have no sympathy for transfer bound Cuse and anything that happens to the school. Sounds like they might make a good match with Duke and its lacrosse team.
 
 What are the odds Boeheim coaches even one ACC game?

Syracuse was poached for basketball and JB was part of that equation. If folks think the SJ Pitt scandal was lack of institutional control, JB and BF seemingly have been out of control for years and it has finally caught up to them!
 
Mrs. Fine's seeming complicity does change this case in my mind.

I know here in NJ, some of the litigation involving priests allegedly "started" close to the age of consent.

I understand the psychology involved with abuse that starts at a young age and continues thereafter, i.e., after 16, 17 or 18 but the cases I have a real problem with are the ones where the "abuse" starts at 16/17 and allegedly goes on into the 20's and here in Fine's case into the age of 28, that is still an issue with me. Even if Davis' began at 12 (who knows if it did) why does he let go on to the age of 28? Why did it stop then?

There was a guy who wrote a play about priest abuse who said it started at 17 and went on into his 30's, I just don't buy that. Sorry. Of all the Catholic church cases it has been estimated by independent sources that a high percentage of the lawsuits have been completely unfounded but with sleazy lawyers and willing liars the church has been socked with tons of judgments. Don't get me wrong they deserve a lot of blame for how it was handled.

I am jumping to a huge conclusion here, but BF sounds to me like he has sexual orientation issues, and "hooked up" with the wrong characters who see a "payday" in the making. Just my opinion, we'll see.

Now, the incidents of true sexual abuse happen in all walks of life and all types of settings, boy scouts, ministers, rabbis, priests, coaches, dentists, lawyers, doctors, truck drivers, plumbers, etc., you can't really generalize when it comes to sexual predators. Someone reported that if the protestant church was one organization, and not many, the percentage is just as high if not higher than the Catholic church, but the media reports focused on the Catholic church for a whole variety of other reasons.
Click to expand...
 

You do realize that a large percentage of rapes are never reported. Usually as the victim is embarassed or scared. No difference here once the kid turned 18.
 
 Jemele Hill
BREAKING: Per ESPNews: Syracuse police investigating allegation that Syracuse asst Bernie Fine molested fmr ball boy


READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boeheim better hope he didn't know about this.
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 "Boeheim saw me with Bernie all the time in the hotel rooms, on road trips," Davis said. "He'd come in, and see me laying in the bed, kind of glance at me like, 'What are you doing here?' But he wouldn't say that. He'd just scowl. And I would look at him like, I'd be nervous. I felt embarrassed 'cause I felt stupid that I'm there. I'm not supposed to be here. I know it, and Boeheim's not stupid."

Jim Must Go Now!!!!!!!!
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They hung Joe Pa. Jim is much worse he must go now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
As I try to stay unbiased and out of making assumptions I will just say the way lots of Cuse grads/students feel. I would say an overwhelming amount of people I have spoke to think Boeheim 100% is innocent, should not be let go, and is safe. There are a few that think there is no doubt he should be gone. There is no real middle ground. As someone who lived in Syracuse for a year, I will say that that city and town really has nothing else and they try very hard to protect their own. There was an incident with their star running back a few years back and nothing happened, and if you wonder why Scoop is a 5th year, its because he had an incident his freshman yr also (which is public knowledge). What those kids get away with up there is insane (trust me), and that is why I think in the end nothing will happen to Boeheim no matter what. However, I will say some of the guys on the bball team I met were really nice guys.
 
 Francessa was relentless calling for Joe Pa's firing. Will he do the same with his friend Boeheim? The smart money says NO. I'll be shocked if he even talks about it.
 
I'd have a hard time believing that Boeheim would have known and tolerated it. I'm not saying it's impossible but my first reaction would always be that ANYONE who becomes aware of such horrific abuse would step in immediately and do the right thing. I'm not a Boeheim fan, and I felt that his staunch comments earlier this month were foolish - you simply do not know what happens between an accuser and accused, no matter who the parties are.

RULE #1 OF CHILD-ADULT INTERACTION - if an adult has a child who isn't his own in an unusual situation (like travelling with an adult alone) STEP UP AND SAY SOMETHING.

This means if one of your kid's teachers asks him/her to stay after school alone with him/her, offers to give a ride alone, take to a museum or other trip, SAY NO. It means don't let your kid get in the car with a coach when there are no other kids present. Kids don't sleep with adults on boy scout camping trips. ANY RESPONSIBLE ADULT, even completely innocent, well intentioned people, should adhere to these rules for their children and in terms of their own behavior.

TEACH YOUR KIDS NEVER TO ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE ALONE WITH AN ADULT, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY OVER THEM.
 
 Excellent post, Beast. I also don't think Boeheim had actual knowledge but the sad part is that when people see something that doesn't look right, they turn the other way and try to pretend that they didn't see anything.

Parents, please watch your kids. Be a part of their activites. That is just good parenting. Don't just send your kid to a Little League game. Go with him or her. Your child will be safer and he will love you for it. 

And, finally, DON'T TRUST ANYONE with your children. As The Sandusky case shows, even grandpa is a threat.
 
You do realize that a large percentage of rapes are never reported. Usually as the victim is embarassed or scared. No difference here once the kid turned 18.
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There's actually quite a few differences here. No one's alleging rape, that's one difference. The allegation is that Fine touched the boy where his bathing suit covers. And shirley there's a difference between an adult touching a child's genitals, as opposed an adult to touching another adult's genitals. One cannot be consensual and is a crime, whereas the other can be consensual and is considered courtship. (Please to be sparing me psychological claptrap about how the poor 27 year old was under the post traumatic Svengali sway of Bernie Fine.) Then a third difference would be that the victim in this case came forward and reported the alleged abuse and has been talking about it for 10 years to anyone who'll listen including the police and Chris Berman, so he's evidently neither too scared or embarassed to talk about it.
 
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