St. John's-Georgetown, Game II Game Thread

[illwill30]

 we couldn't get over the hump all second half...we need another option besides moe and deangelo. for those who think we will automatically be a good team next year, where is that other scoring option going to come from?

  Branch could be one. More players means more defense like last year which was a lot of trapping and mixing it up which means more points in transition.

Pointer and Garrett can thrive in that type of environment.

 

Branch is not a given...all he is is a highly rated recruit. he's not proven anything.

 

Branch was averaging 4.2 points and 2.5 assists as a backup.

 

are you really posting this as a positive? look, im not saying he'll be a bust i just think it's crazy to annoint him as a savior like player.

 

Look at the style we played last year. These kids right now were born to run but we need more bodies

 

ironic because these kids can't execute in transition to save their lives. maybe branch will help that next year.

 

[mjmaherjr]

 we couldn't get over the hump all second half...we need another option besides moe and deangelo. for those who think we will automatically be a good team next year, where is that other scoring option going to come from?

  Branch could be one. More players means more defense like last year which was a lot of trapping and mixing it up which means more points in transition.

Pointer and Garrett can thrive in that type of environment.

 

Branch is not a given...all he is is a highly rated recruit. he's not proven anything.

 

What were the scoring averages of our players last year after Hardy ? Take a guess

 

huh?

  You are saying we need another scoring option next year. We have Moe and Harrison ( I think Moe will be back ) and I'm asking you a simple question.

Looking at last years team what was our scoring for the players after Hardy last year

 

[westchesterjoe]

 it was a nice effort after 2 stinko games against the Cuse and Cinn. I did not like LAVIN'S match up zone last year and even more so this year.. And, it has nothing to do with only 6 players. Lavin's defense gives up way too many makeable 3's.. and, in college BB you cannot give up easy 3's.. you lose if you do. And, surprise, these guys still look awful playing against other team's zones.

Whoever Lavin is recruiting hopefully includes someone who has some form of outside game in addition to Harrison. Garrett, Greene and Pointer are nice role players with limited offense ability. GG'S Gift also is limited offensively, missing too many bunnies like the Roberts players of the past.

As many have said this team is still incomplete as it needs several key pieces, a big man, shooter and Pg, which Branch is suppose to provide.. Next season will be interesting if Lavin gets the players he needs. He absolutely needs to return to the bench full time next year.

 

[Absolutfan]

Either there is no coaching going on or these kids are just not thinking. End game time management is horrendous. Dont think its the coaching........ and Pointer should either work on his shot in the off season or transfer to Michigan. It kills a team when the defense plays so far off a player that they are almost doubling everyone else. 

 

We're packing in the defense on purpose. We have to shut down interior. Can't chase shooters with only 5 guys. You really don't have a clue.

 

Ha ha ha, why dont you try reading a post before you comment, you really look stupid here. I was referring to the other team's defense on Pointer.

 

We're all FANS? Right? Do we have to call each other stupid? Everyone needs to take a few pints together....

 


Agree, but if you look at where these attacks come from and to who. On this site, if you are not in a constant Rah Rah state and criticize anything at all, you are verbally abused. Hell if I wanted verbal abuse, I would hang out more with my kids. The problem is that any form of "nasty" should be addressed by those in charge regardless of who it is. As you stated earlier, we are all fans here right?

 


the problem here and on JJ is not the negativity...it's those posters who are incapable of reading anything other than rah rah pom pom posts. the attacks usually come from them...

 


+1

 

[illwill30]

 People don't realize the herculean task it is to beat a top Big East team with 5 freshmen and no bench at all. We should be losing all these games by 30+ on paper. The fact that we threatened til the end is a testament to good coaching and ALL of these kids. No Pointer isn't an offensive superstar, but we have zero upperclassmen to fall back on while these kids develop. We have no bench. People criticizing our play here have lost their minds and doesn't have a clue how woefully overmatched we are depth and experience-wise. We're playing at a level that is waaaay better than a team with only 5 freshmen should play. 

 

whose fault is it that we have no bench at all?


When you're 10-15, no matter the circumstances, criticism is fair.

 

Two guys quit on the team mid season, two guys didn't qualify right before the season. In addition we had to replace 12 guys which is real difficult. To say "no matter the circumstances" is silly. Circumstances certainly do matter. That's like me saying "a guy with one leg didn't win the 400M hurdles in the Olympic, but no matter the circumstances, criticism is fair". Our circumstances losing the ENTIRE team entering this season is the biggest reason we're in this spot. Sme unfortunate events with our payers recruits didn't help.

 

we had three players transfer and two kids academically ineligible. the circumstances were tough, but lavin gets paid millions to handle the tough circumstances and execute. He is ultimately responsible for the transfers and ineligible players. I love Lavin, but let's be fair.

 

[MCNPA]

Either there is no coaching going on or these kids are just not thinking. End game time management is horrendous. Dont think its the coaching........ and Pointer should either work on his shot in the off season or transfer to Michigan. It kills a team when the defense plays so far off a player that they are almost doubling everyone else. 

 

We're packing in the defense on purpose. We have to shut down interior. Can't chase shooters with only 5 guys. You really don't have a clue.

 

Ha ha ha, why dont you try reading a post before you comment, you really look stupid here. I was referring to the other team's defense on Pointer.

 

We're all FANS? Right? Do we have to call each other stupid? Everyone needs to take a few pints together....

 


Agree, but if you look at where these attacks come from and to who. On this site, if you are not in a constant Rah Rah state and criticize anything at all, you are verbally abused. Hell if I wanted verbal abuse, I would hang out more with my kids. The problem is that any form of "nasty" should be addressed by those in charge regardless of who it is. As you stated earlier, we are all fans here right?

 

"fans" like you claim to be don't start new threads calling out the head coach to cause trouble. In message board lingo, that is referred to as "flaming, which is inciting trouble. It was obvious your intent. If you don't want to draw ire from actual fans of the program, the best way is to not be a "Richard".

 

[illwill30]

 we couldn't get over the hump all second half...we need another option besides moe and deangelo. for those who think we will automatically be a good team next year, where is that other scoring option going to come from?

  Branch could be one. More players means more defense like last year which was a lot of trapping and mixing it up which means more points in transition.

Pointer and Garrett can thrive in that type of environment.

 

Branch is not a given...all he is is a highly rated recruit. he's not proven anything.

 

What were the scoring averages of our players last year after Hardy ? Take a guess

 

huh?

  You are saying we need another scoring option next year. We have Moe and Harrison ( I think Moe will be back ) and I'm asking you a simple question.

Looking at last years team what was our scoring for the players after Hardy last year

 

we don't need another major scoring option...a guy who can consistently hit jumpers and score in crunch time will help tho. Last year we had DJ and Paris Horne who were clutch players and guys we could count on outside of hardy. Right now we have nobody to count on outside of moe and deangelo...and im asking, who does everyone think will assume that DJ/Paris role next season to make us into a good team?

 

[Absolutfan]

 People don't realize the herculean task it is to beat a top Big East team with 5 freshmen and no bench at all. We should be losing all these games by 30+ on paper. The fact that we threatened til the end is a testament to good coaching and ALL of these kids. No Pointer isn't an offensive superstar, but we have zero upperclassmen to fall back on while these kids develop. We have no bench. People criticizing our play here have lost their minds and doesn't have a clue how woefully overmatched we are depth and experience-wise. We're playing at a level that is waaaay better than a team with only 5 freshmen should play. 

 

whose fault is it that we have no bench at all?


When you're 10-15, no matter the circumstances, criticism is fair.

 

Two guys quit on the team mid season, two guys didn't qualify right before the season. In addition we had to replace 12 guys which is real difficult. To say "no matter the circumstances" is silly. Circumstances certainly do matter. That's like me saying "a guy with one leg didn't win the 400M hurdles in the Olympic, but no matter the circumstances, criticism is fair". Our circumstances losing the ENTIRE team entering this season is the biggest reason we're in this spot. Sme unfortunate events with our payers recruits didn't help.

 

we had three players transfer and two kids academically ineligible. the circumstances were tough, but lavin gets paid millions to handle the tough circumstances and execute. He is ultimately responsible for the transfers and ineligible players. I love Lavin, but let's be fair.

 

Relax, a top 10 recruiting class is on its way.

 

[MJDinkins]

Either there is no coaching going on or these kids are just not thinking. End game time management is horrendous. Dont think its the coaching........ and Pointer should either work on his shot in the off season or transfer to Michigan. It kills a team when the defense plays so far off a player that they are almost doubling everyone else. 

 

We're packing in the defense on purpose. We have to shut down interior. Can't chase shooters with only 5 guys. You really don't have a clue.

 

Ha ha ha, why dont you try reading a post before you comment, you really look stupid here. I was referring to the other team's defense on Pointer.

 

We're all FANS? Right? Do we have to call each other stupid? Everyone needs to take a few pints together....

 


Agree, but if you look at where these attacks come from and to who. On this site, if you are not in a constant Rah Rah state and criticize anything at all, you are verbally abused. Hell if I wanted verbal abuse, I would hang out more with my kids. The problem is that any form of "nasty" should be addressed by those in charge regardless of who it is. As you stated earlier, we are all fans here right?

 


the problem here and on JJ is not the negativity...it's those posters who are incapable of reading anything other than rah rah pom pom posts. the attacks usually come from them...

 

Wrong! You rarely ever post anything that critiques the team and cite issues. It's practically negativity and attacks. There is a difference 'ya know....

Maybe, you and realfan aka John should hang out with one another. Regardless, one of the mods have already spoke in this thread, so you're on watch.

 

[MCNPA]

 People don't realize the herculean task it is to beat a top Big East team with 5 freshmen and no bench at all. We should be losing all these games by 30+ on paper. The fact that we threatened til the end is a testament to good coaching and ALL of these kids. No Pointer isn't an offensive superstar, but we have zero upperclassmen to fall back on while these kids develop. We have no bench. People criticizing our play here have lost their minds and doesn't have a clue how woefully overmatched we are depth and experience-wise. We're playing at a level that is waaaay better than a team with only 5 freshmen should play. 

 

whose fault is it that we have no bench at all?


When you're 10-15, no matter the circumstances, criticism is fair.

 

Two guys quit on the team mid season, two guys didn't qualify right before the season. In addition we had to replace 12 guys which is real difficult. To say "no matter the circumstances" is silly. Circumstances certainly do matter. That's like me saying "a guy with one leg didn't win the 400M hurdles in the Olympic, but no matter the circumstances, criticism is fair". Our circumstances losing the ENTIRE team entering this season is the biggest reason we're in this spot. Sme unfortunate events with our payers recruits didn't help.

 

we had three players transfer and two kids academically ineligible. the circumstances were tough, but lavin gets paid millions to handle the tough circumstances and execute. He is ultimately responsible for the transfers and ineligible players. I love Lavin, but let's be fair.

 

Illwill, IMHO it is you who is not being fair based on the circumstances. Rebuilding is a process and not instantaneous. Lavin is really not responsible for transfers. That is between a kid and his family for their own reasons. Lavin can not force a kid to stay. When a new staff comes on board, often kids transfer. Two kids didn't qualify which was a surprise to the staff. They had the grades. NCAA just didn't believe them and for no reason except distrust said they couldnt clear our 3 kids. They all had the passing grades, but NCAA just said...nah, we're not approving them.

 

[Della9250]

 Well for one, Branch coming in makes Greene come off the bench. Considering some of the games he's had, that's pretty good for a sixth or seventh action.

I also think you are selling Garrett short. He was behind already and has shown some flashes. Bu the start of the next season, I think he can either be an effective starter or a major part of the rotation based on what's added.

 

[illwill30]

Either there is no coaching going on or these kids are just not thinking. End game time management is horrendous. Dont think its the coaching........ and Pointer should either work on his shot in the off season or transfer to Michigan. It kills a team when the defense plays so far off a player that they are almost doubling everyone else. 

 

We're packing in the defense on purpose. We have to shut down interior. Can't chase shooters with only 5 guys. You really don't have a clue.

 

Ha ha ha, why dont you try reading a post before you comment, you really look stupid here. I was referring to the other team's defense on Pointer.

 

We're all FANS? Right? Do we have to call each other stupid? Everyone needs to take a few pints together....

 


Agree, but if you look at where these attacks come from and to who. On this site, if you are not in a constant Rah Rah state and criticize anything at all, you are verbally abused. Hell if I wanted verbal abuse, I would hang out more with my kids. The problem is that any form of "nasty" should be addressed by those in charge regardless of who it is. As you stated earlier, we are all fans here right?

 


the problem here and on JJ is not the negativity...it's those posters who are incapable of reading anything other than rah rah pom pom posts. the attacks usually come from them...

 

You rarely ever post anything that critiques the team and cite issues.

 

i literally laughed out loud. I don't critique the team? Between that comment and your post about GG being able to hit outside jumpers, you're batting a cool .000

 

[boo haarvey]

Either there is no coaching going on or these kids are just not thinking. End game time management is horrendous. Dont think its the coaching........ and Pointer should either work on his shot in the off season or transfer to Michigan. It kills a team when the defense plays so far off a player that they are almost doubling everyone else. 

 

We're packing in the defense on purpose. We have to shut down interior. Can't chase shooters with only 5 guys. You really don't have a clue.

 U

Ha ha ha, why dont you try reading a post before you comment, you really look stupid here. I was referring to the other team's defense on Pointer.

 

We're all FANS? Right? Do we have to call each other stupid? Everyone needs to take a few pints together....

 


Agree, but if you look at where these attacks come from and to who. On this site, if you are not in a constant Rah Rah state and criticize anything at all, you are verbally abused. Hell if I wanted verbal abuse, I would hang out more with my kids. The problem is that any form of "nasty" should be addressed by those in charge regardless of who it is. As you stated earlier, we are all fans here right?

 


the problem here and on JJ is not the negativity...it's those posters who are incapable of reading anything other than rah rah pom pom posts. the attacks usually come from them...

 

+1

 

[MJDinkins]

Either there is no coaching going on or these kids are just not thinking. End game time management is horrendous. Dont think its the coaching........ and Pointer should either work on his shot in the off season or transfer to Michigan. It kills a team when the defense plays so far off a player that they are almost doubling everyone else. 

 

We're packing in the defense on purpose. We have to shut down interior. Can't chase shooters with only 5 guys. You really don't have a clue.

 

Ha ha ha, why dont you try reading a post before you comment, you really look stupid here. I was referring to the other team's defense on Pointer.

 

We're all FANS? Right? Do we have to call each other stupid? Everyone needs to take a few pints together....

 


Agree, but if you look at where these attacks come from and to who. On this site, if you are not in a constant Rah Rah state and criticize anything at all, you are verbally abused. Hell if I wanted verbal abuse, I would hang out more with my kids. The problem is that any form of "nasty" should be addressed by those in charge regardless of who it is. As you stated earlier, we are all fans here right?

 


the problem here and on JJ is not the negativity...it's those posters who are incapable of reading anything other than rah rah pom pom posts. the attacks usually come from them...

 

You rarely ever post anything that critiques the team and cite issues.

 

i literally laughed out loud. I don't critique the team? Between that comment and your post about GG being able to hit outside jumpers, you're batting a cool .000

 

You can't comprehend. It read, "you rarely ever critique the team." Which means, you rarely ever critique the team. It meant what it stated. I've seen GG hit a baseline jumper on several occasions.

You're not gonna be batting at all on here shortly. 

 

[mjmaherjr]

 we couldn't get over the hump all second half...we need another option besides moe and deangelo. for those who think we will automatically be a good team next year, where is that other scoring option going to come from?

  Branch could be one. More players means more defense like last year which was a lot of trapping and mixing it up which means more points in transition.

Pointer and Garrett can thrive in that type of environment.

 

Branch is not a given...all he is is a highly rated recruit. he's not proven anything.

 

What were the scoring averages of our players last year after Hardy ? Take a guess

 

huh?

  You are saying we need another scoring option next year. We have Moe and Harrison ( I think Moe will be back ) and I'm asking you a simple question.

Looking at last years team what was our scoring for the players after Hardy last year

 

we don't need another major scoring option...a guy who can consistently hit jumpers and score in crunch time will help tho. Last year we had DJ and Paris Horne who were clutch players and guys we could count on outside of hardy. Right now we have nobody to count on outside of moe and deangelo...and im asking, who does everyone think will assume that DJ/Paris role next season to make us into a good team?

 

Paris averaged 7.9 ppg last year as a senior. Phil is averaging 7.7 before todays game. Who is to say Phil won't develop further. I'd like another scorer also.

But I also think with more bodies and definitely needing some more height that we are going to be a lot better once we don't have to start worrying about fouls and can start playing baseline to baseline defense without worrying about burning the kids out or fouling out

 

[illwill30]

 People don't realize the herculean task it is to beat a top Big East team with 5 freshmen and no bench at all. We should be losing all these games by 30+ on paper. The fact that we threatened til the end is a testament to good coaching and ALL of these kids. No Pointer isn't an offensive superstar, but we have zero upperclassmen to fall back on while these kids develop. We have no bench. People criticizing our play here have lost their minds and doesn't have a clue how woefully overmatched we are depth and experience-wise. We're playing at a level that is waaaay better than a team with only 5 freshmen should play. 

 

whose fault is it that we have no bench at all?


When you're 10-15, no matter the circumstances, criticism is fair.

 

Two guys quit on the team mid season, two guys didn't qualify right before the season. In addition we had to replace 12 guys which is real difficult. To say "no matter the circumstances" is silly. Circumstances certainly do matter. That's like me saying "a guy with one leg didn't win the 400M hurdles in the Olympic, but no matter the circumstances, criticism is fair". Our circumstances losing the ENTIRE team entering this season is the biggest reason we're in this spot. Sme unfortunate events with our payers recruits didn't help.

 

we had three players transfer and two kids academically ineligible. the circumstances were tough, but lavin gets paid millions to handle the tough circumstances and execute. He is ultimately responsible for the transfers and ineligible players. I love Lavin, but let's be fair.

 

Illwill, IMHO it is you who is not being fair based on the circumstances. Rebuilding is a process and not instantaneous. Lavin is really not responsible for transfers. That is between a kid and his family for their own reasons. Lavin can not force a kid to stay. When a new staff comes on board, often kids transfer. Two kids didn't qualify which was a surprise to the staff. They had the grades. NCAA just didn't believe them and for no reason except distrust said they couldnt clear our 3 kids. They all had the passing grades, but NCAA just said...nah, we're not approving them.

 

The staff sendtthose kids to that school (drawing a blank on the name) which from my understand (i couild be wrong) hhad a reputation for being shady in terms of grades. Lavin recruited nurideen...if the kid turns out to be a quitter, that is on Lavin!! If he gets credit for bringing in Moe and DeAngelo, he gets blame for kids transferring. bottom line...

I'm being completely fair...Lavin gets paid to recruit and make tough decisions. Rebuilding is a process but i wouldn't be complaining (ok, maybe i would ) if we were losing with a full deck. My biggest issue with this team the whole season has been the lack of bodies.

It's tough to recruit 10 great players...but it's not that hard to recruit 10 players (or so) that qualify academically. I haven't even mentioned the kids who have decommitted from our program. But i'll give lavin a pass on gathers cause i think his health had a play with that.

 

[Della9250]

 Do to any other Big East roster what happened to St. John's and just how many would be in that much better shape?

Lose nine seniors and then have another player transfer right after the spring signing period so there is not much to add as a replacement. Then have two newcomers not make it, another transfer less than 10 games in and your ONLY experience at the Division I level transfer with 10 games left.

And do all that against one of the toughest schedules in the country -- 8 ranked in the top 25 in the RPI and another seven in the top 100.

 

[illwill30]

Either there is no coaching going on or these kids are just not thinking. End game time management is horrendous. Dont think its the coaching........ and Pointer should either work on his shot in the off season or transfer to Michigan. It kills a team when the defense plays so far off a player that they are almost doubling everyone else. 

 

We're packing in the defense on purpose. We have to shut down interior. Can't chase shooters with only 5 guys. You really don't have a clue.

 

Ha ha ha, why dont you try reading a post before you comment, you really look stupid here. I was referring to the other team's defense on Pointer.

 

We're all FANS? Right? Do we have to call each other stupid? Everyone needs to take a few pints together....

 


Agree, but if you look at where these attacks come from and to who. On this site, if you are not in a constant Rah Rah state and criticize anything at all, you are verbally abused. Hell if I wanted verbal abuse, I would hang out more with my kids. The problem is that any form of "nasty" should be addressed by those in charge regardless of who it is. As you stated earlier, we are all fans here right?

 


the problem here and on JJ is not the negativity...it's those posters who are incapable of reading anything other than rah rah pom pom posts. the attacks usually come from them...

 

You rarely ever post anything that critiques the team and cite issues.

 

i literally laughed out loud. I don't critique the team? Between that comment and your post about GG being able to hit outside jumpers, you're batting a cool .000

 

You can't comprehend. It read, "you rarely ever critique the team." Which means, you rarely ever critique the team. It meant what it stated. I've seen GG hit a baseline jumper on several occasions.

You're not gonna be batting at all on here shortly. 

 

so commenting on our lack of outside shooters, lack of size, lack of bodies in general and coaching misteps is not critiquing the team...got it.

 

[Jnaw17]

 The team played well today, and with a couple of more players, we're there with Georgetown. This type of effort and execution will win most of the games left on our schedule. I hope they step up this same way the rest of the way. Comparisons to DJ and Paris from last year are ridiculous. Those guys were seniors. Wake up. Every one of our players can be a go to guy next year as they mature.

 

[Della9250]

 And if Lavin would have brought in just five "bodies" to fill out the roster and they weren't any good. You'd bash that. And then we'd be back to the Norm days where the roster is stuck wihere it is for years and no top talent could be added.

I'll take the hit this season for the flexibility going forward to be able to add the pieces the staff wants going forward. Of course most here can't even wait until May to find out exactly who those people will be.