So after tonight should Lavin...

[beast of the east]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

Nothing you said is off, but, giving this team the fullest benefit of the doubt, which they do not deserve this AM:

It's quite possible that this team has serviceable pieces, just not enough of them. The problem for next season is that unless Lavin has something up his sleeve, we need someone coming in who can contribute in a big way to put us in the dance solidly. Even with this squad, I don't think we are very far from being a tourney team. For those with a 6th grade reading level, this doesn't mean anyone here is satisfied with the NIT, or losing badly at home to a mid major in said tourney.

 

[SJUISBACK]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

Nothing you said is off, but, giving this team the fullest benefit of the doubt, which they do not deserve this AM:

It's quite possible that this team has serviceable pieces, just not enough of them. The problem for next season is that unless Lavin has something up his sleeve, we need someone coming in who can contribute in a big way to put us in the dance solidly. Even with this squad, I don't think we are very far from being a tourney team. For those with a 6th grade reading level, this doesn't mean anyone here is satisfied with the NIT, or losing badly at home to a mid major in said tourney.

Oh so you got a 6th grade reading level? Damn I`m sorry to hear that.

This team is lazy, then when they feel like playing then they turn it on. They went down alot in a few games then they turn it on, get close or even tie it, but then run out of gas.
Wisc - down 18 then get to with 4 and lose by 11, Syracuse - down 14 they take a 2pnt lead but lose by 5, Creighton - down 18 then tie it but lose by 3, PC - down 17 then get to within 1 but again it`s a loss, RM - down 26 then get to with 8.
Does anyone see a pattern here?

 

[beast of the east]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

Nothing you said is off, but, giving this team the fullest benefit of the doubt, which they do not deserve this AM:

It's quite possible that this team has serviceable pieces, just not enough of them. The problem for next season is that unless Lavin has something up his sleeve, we need someone coming in who can contribute in a big way to put us in the dance solidly. Even with this squad, I don't think we are very far from being a tourney team. For those with a 6th grade reading level, this doesn't mean anyone here is satisfied with the NIT, or losing badly at home to a mid major in said tourney.

Oh so you got a 6th grade reading level? Damn I`m sorry to hear that.

This team is lazy, then when they feel like playing then they turn it on. They went down alot in a few games then they turn it on, get close or even tie it, but then run out of gas.
Wisc - down 18 then get to with 4 and lose by 11, Syracuse - down 14 they take a 2pnt lead but lose by 5, Creighton - down 18 then tie it but lose by 3, PC - down 17 then get to within 1 but again it`s a loss, RM - down 26 then get to with 8.
Does anyone see a pattern here?

It wasn't a good team. It's over.

 

[basketballjones]

The team did look like they could beat anyone in the Big East during its 10 out of 11 stretch. However, when they've been bad they've been really bad. And there does not often seem to be capable adjustments coming from the coaching staff. There is no method to our offense. Defense is up and down. Rebounding is bad.

 

[newsman13]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

As you know, I've worked in places where they kept score between us and our counterparts...and we always won. Unachievably high standards? Achieving the impossible doesn't take great people, it takes a winner's mindset.
I've sadly come to realize after all these years that the school doesn't have that mindset and never will. The administration definition of achievement is to make sure the school isn't embarassed. Lavin was our last hope, with a winning record at a program that demanded excellence. Unless you replace him with someone who won at the highest level, you'll end up with same result. I wonder what Repole is thinking today.

 

[Las Vegan]

We are all pissed, but he deserves an extenstion. Two 20-win seasons...cancer...replacing his 1st assistant....losing a top 15 pick unexpectedly after a year....no senior yet...huge turnover he had to replace year 2.

Give him a two year extension and layout the expectations.

I wonder if we'd all feel better if at the end of the NIT loss he tossed chairs onto the court and choked a few players?

Probably

Well, he could have tossed the chairs into the stands, with minimal chance of hitting anyone.

 

[1and1sju]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

As you know, I've worked in places where they kept score between us and our counterparts...and we always won. Unachievably high standards? Achieving the impossible doesn't take great people, it takes a winner's mindset.
I've sadly come to realize after all these years that the school doesn't have that mindset and never will. The administration definition of achievement is to make sure the school isn't embarassed. Lavin was our last hope, with a winning record at a program that demanded excellence. Unless you replace him with someone who won at the highest level, you'll end up with same result. I wonder what Repole is thinking today.

Lately I've found myself agreeing with you on a surprising number of topics Newsie. But why can't you fathom a midmajor coach or an assistant somewhere succeeding?
Look where these guys were just before they blew up... Jay Wright we know, Izzo was an asst, Thad Matta was at Xavier, Bo Ryan was at Milwaukee, Fran McCaffrey was at Siena, even little Pitino looks to be doing well ... the list is almost infinite. Most good coaches aren't retreads that have been let go and are looking for a job. Your best chance to get a good coach is to catch one on the way up. Am I wrong?

 

[Marillac]

I honestly don't know if this team is just soft,physically incapable, or if Lavin just doesn't stress rebounding. Look at the offensive rebounding #s of the 2010-2011 guys compared to the year before under Norm. Now, Norm was a terrible coach, but he stressed toughness and physical play. Everyone but I think one player went down in offensive rebounds (off the top of my head, I think JB1 improved). Sean Evans was an offensive rebounding machine the year before but fell off big time even relative to minutes played...even DJ went down.

What would a kid like Justin Jackson look like on this roster? What if Rico Gathers stayed committed--he is one of the top offensive rebounders in the country.

Bottomline, if you shoot like we do, you need second chance points to be consistent. How different would the third Prov game be if they didn't hit the offensive glass? We need a bruiser or at least a pitbull that will follow shots, sky for rebounds, and dive for loose balls.

 

[TonyinFairfield]

We are all pissed, but he deserves an extenstion. Two 20-win seasons...cancer...replacing his 1st assistant....losing a top 15 pick unexpectedly after a year....no senior yet...huge turnover he had to replace year 2.

Give him a two year extension and layout the expectations.

I wonder if we'd all feel better if at the end of the NIT loss he tossed chairs onto the court and choked a few players?

Probably

I wouldn't feel better. But I wonder how the Lavin haters would react to that?

 

[austour]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

As you know, I've worked in places where they kept score between us and our counterparts...and we always won. Unachievably high standards? Achieving the impossible doesn't take great people, it takes a winner's mindset.
I've sadly come to realize after all these years that the school doesn't have that mindset and never will. The administration definition of achievement is to make sure the school isn't embarassed. Lavin was our last hope, with a winning record at a program that demanded excellence. Unless you replace him with someone who won at the highest level, you'll end up with same result. I wonder what Repole is thinking today.

Re para one, they always won in their own minds and seemed to have no standards at all so I don't see the relevance. That's another delusional fantasy.

Re St Johns it's interesting that you've just come to that. As a non-alum outsider who picked up STJ as my team purely because they played the most games within the closest distance to my office I never had any high opinion of STJ. Seemed to me that they were always an old school program in a new school world. I have never and still don't think any coach who has already won at the highest level (I assume you're talking about a team in the top half of one of the power conferences) is going to think STJ is a step up. So while they were a top program when I moved in to the city I never thought they were going to be able to keep it up a la the Mullin years. To me as someone who grew up on LI in the 60's/70s it was that non-descript commuter school that got lots of good local players in a game that was going to require more than that from now on as it was apparent from 1980 that the game was going through monumental changes. That said I certainly have expected more than they've delivered for the past 15.

 

[JackofVirginia]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

As you know, I've worked in places where they kept score between us and our counterparts...and we always won. Unachievably high standards? Achieving the impossible doesn't take great people, it takes a winner's mindset.
I've sadly come to realize after all these years that the school doesn't have that mindset and never will. The administration definition of achievement is to make sure the school isn't embarassed. Lavin was our last hope, with a winning record at a program that demanded excellence. Unless you replace him with someone who won at the highest level, you'll end up with same result. I wonder what Repole is thinking today.

Probably, I think I rather spend my money on horses. At least they give it their all.

 

[Jack Williams]

Harrison is the most aggressive rebounder on the team, that's sad

 

[mjmaherjr]

1-year extension if I were in charge.

You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.

This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?

if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right

Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

Absolutely not saying that at all. What I'm saying is what happens if he hasn't landed 2015 recruits by mid next season and next years team goes on a roll. It's quite reasonable to think that any coach in that position knowing they don't have a ton of recruits lined up and their current class is about to graduate or leave to try nba might jump to the most attractive offer of another school if they aren't locked in a contract at their own school

 

[JackofVirginia]

We are all pissed, but he deserves an extenstion. Two 20-win seasons...cancer...replacing his 1st assistant....losing a top 15 pick unexpectedly after a year....no senior yet...huge turnover he had to replace year 2.

Give him a two year extension and layout the expectations.

I wonder if we'd all feel better if at the end of the NIT loss he tossed chairs onto the court and choked a few players?

Probably

I wouldn't feel better. But I wonder how the Lavin haters would react to that?

I don't hate Lavin but know he is a poor coach. Afterall, how many years does it take to develop an offense and a defense. After UCLA didn't he learn anything during his analyst tenure?

 

[JackofVirginia]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

As you know, I've worked in places where they kept score between us and our counterparts...and we always won. Unachievably high standards? Achieving the impossible doesn't take great people, it takes a winner's mindset.
I've sadly come to realize after all these years that the school doesn't have that mindset and never will. The administration definition of achievement is to make sure the school isn't embarassed. Lavin was our last hope, with a winning record at a program that demanded excellence. Unless you replace him with someone who won at the highest level, you'll end up with same result. I wonder what Repole is thinking today.

Lately I've found myself agreeing with you on a surprising number of topics Newsie. But why can't you fathom a midmajor coach or an assistant somewhere succeeding?
Look where these guys were just before they blew up... Jay Wright we know, Izzo was an asst, Thad Matta was at Xavier, Bo Ryan was at Milwaukee, Fran McCaffrey was at Siena, even little Pitino looks to be doing well ... the list is almost infinite. Most good coaches aren't retreads that have been let go and are looking for a job. Your best chance to get a good coach is to catch one on the way up. Am I wrong?

You can add Collins at Northwestern to that list. My choice to replace Lavin would be Wojo from Duke. I'd put my money on him recruiting and getting the most out of his team. If coach K doesn't retire soon Wojo won't be available.

 

[mullin20]

According to the ever reliable Marco Baldi on JJ, Lavin and STJ are parting ways....

 

[Marillac]

According to the ever reliable Marco Baldi on JJ, Lavin and STJ are parting ways....

LOL

 

[howcudubsoharkless]

lavin is one of these expert marketers who knows every buzzword in the book.. very persuasive but lacking in substance. If I hear the words gumption and pluck one more time....

 

[mario]

lavin is one of these expert marketers who knows every buzzword in the book.. very persuasive but lacking in substance. If I hear the words gumption and pluck one more time....

How do you think he married such a beautiful women

 

[bamafan]

I'm not bent out of shape at all over last night. It's the NIT. These kids know they are an NCAA tournament caliber team. This isn't where they wanted to be. Robert Morris on the other hand is pumped to be in the NIT and the energy level showed last night. I find filling out NIT brackets are 10 times harder than the NCAA tournament brackets. Not everyone is pumped to be there. 1 seeds lose to 8 seeds in that tournament all the time no big deal. No one is watching anyway except fans of these teams. Nobody outside us will remember this. The NIT is just bonus games. They mean nothing.

I'm still livid about the effort level in the Providence game. That's when their season ended.

Solid post. Agree.

Everyone thinks that RM is so thrilled to be in NIT. well they were already in it last year and beat Kentucky. They lost their conf championship game to go to NCAA to 16-16 Mount St. Mary's. You don't think they are disappointed they didn't make the big dance? They made the best of their situation and played their butts of not like some of our prima donnas!