So after tonight should Lavin...

On Tom Crean from Wiki "The Wall Street Journal and most Indiana basketball fans consider the 2012-2013 team to be the "Biggest Underachiever in NCAA History." [24]

Has a familiar ring to it. Sign him up.
 
Lavin deserves some blame as too many nights they didn't come to play. he does get credit for the overall talent level improvement, which is ultimately the key. Without a long extension his recruiting efforts will be hindered.
 
On Tom Crean from Wiki "The Wall Street Journal and most Indiana basketball fans consider the 2012-2013 team to be the "Biggest Underachiever in NCAA History." [24]

Has a familiar ring to it. Sign him up.
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Crean's body of work with Marquette and Indiana is how he should be judged. I didn't follow Indiana basketball this year. I was surprised they were off the radar all season, so I have no idea what happened this year and of course Indiana fans are upset with the results as they are a top producing program. What I do know is that Crean is held in high regard in the coaching world, and his work at Marquette and Indiana is impressive. His teams always look well schooled and coached, he recruits well, and is an excellent in game coach. I like to watch and root for good basketball, which Tom Crean brings to the table wherever he has coached, and I'm tired of watching athletes run up and down the court who can't put the ball in the basket with a glorified cheerleader on the sideline.
 
This is honestly ridiculous. Tonight's game was Lavin's fault!? Should he be fired because of how the season ended? The thought of Lavin being fired in itself is a joke. There are legitimate expectations for St. John's, something we haven't had in over a decade. He has been here for 4 years (1 of which he had cancer) and you guys expect us to be competing for national championships. This guy has us landing recruits we could only dream about just a few years ago, the team's win total has increased every year. Sometimes you have to look at the players and realize they just aren't as good as we thought they would be. period. We have a very bright future, if we are in this position next year I can see calling for Lavs head but this isn't the year to do it IMO.
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I never said fired, I said do not extend him this off season and see what he does next season, I doubt we buy him out of two seasons anyway.
If no NCAA tourny next year, then yeah fire him. I don`t care about their record, just get us into the ncaa, that`s why he is here right?
To get us into the damn NCAA, it will be his 4th year with his recruits.
So taking over a mess that Norm left will be no excuse, and cancer that he had a few years ago will be no excuse.

No excuses Lavin, do the freaking job you were brought here to do and deliver us an NCAA or you should go byebye after next year.

If the Lavin defenders get upset by that, then to damn bad. Next year will be his 5th year, GET IT DONE OR GO BYEBYE.
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Agree but would give him until the 2015 class if no NCAA by then part ways
 
1-year extension if I were in charge.
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You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.
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This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?
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if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right
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Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

That’s absurd. He’s one of the top-25 highest paid coaches in the country and he’s drastically underperformed this season. But somehow he gets all the leverage in this negotiation??

He needs to get off to a good start next season with his veteran players AND recruit his butt off. Then, and only then, should SJU extend him.

He is damaged goods right now as D1 coach. No way, no how, is anyone going to offer him remotely close to $12 million++ for 6 years. He would also make far less if he went back to TV. Why does everybody act like Lavin has all the leverage here?
 
Staff should be looked at hard and maybe some replacements needed. Does anyone know what exactly Keady does
 
1-year extension if I were in charge.
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You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.
Click to expand...

This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?
Click to expand...

if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right
Click to expand...

Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

That’s absurd. He’s one of the top-25 highest paid coaches in the country and he’s drastically underperformed this season. But somehow he gets all the leverage in this negotiation??

He needs to get off to a good start next season with his veteran players AND recruit his butt off. Then, and only then, should SJU extend him.

He is damaged goods right now as D1 coach. No way, no how, is anyone going to offer him remotely close to $12 million++ for 6 years. He would also make far less if he went back to TV. Why does everybody act like Lavin has all the leverage here?
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It's not a matter of refusing to recruit 15 kids. It is an issue that recruits & parents may not commit to a coach who might not be around very long. Not suggesting what to do, simply laying out the dilemma.
 
1-year extension if I were in charge.
Click to expand...

You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.
Click to expand...

This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?
Click to expand...

if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right
Click to expand...

Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

That’s absurd. He’s one of the top-25 highest paid coaches in the country and he’s drastically underperformed this season. But somehow he gets all the leverage in this negotiation??

He needs to get off to a good start next season with his veteran players AND recruit his butt off. Then, and only then, should SJU extend him.

He is damaged goods right now as D1 coach. No way, no how, is anyone going to offer him remotely close to $12 million++ for 6 years. He would also make far less if he went back to TV. Why does everybody act like Lavin has all the leverage here?
Click to expand...

It's not a matter of refusing to recruit 15 kids. It is an issue that recruits & parents may not commit to a coach who might not be around very long. Not suggesting what to do, simply laying out the dilemma.
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Parents might not also commit to a coach who has demonstrated that he cannot further develop their kids--and may in fact see regression.
 
I am not a Lavin defender but I also do not want him fired and think an extension is warranted as recruits need to see continuity in program. Also if Lavin is fired who else would take over the program? The hiring pool of qualified and capable coaching candidates willing to come here is short and practically non-existent.
 
I am not a Lavin defender but I also do not want him fired and think an extension is warranted as recruits need to see continuity in program. Also if Lavin is fired who else would take over the program? The hiring pool of qualified and capable coaching candidates willing to come here is short and practically non-existent.
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What?? St John's is paying Lavin a rate that puts him in the top 25 highest-paid coaches in the country. It defies all logic to say that there aren't plenty of high-caliber people who would want to come to a high-profile media market like NYC and make $2 million+ / year.

PS: Lavin also got a $1 million relocation loan to move here, which I am willing to bet is interest-free and forgivable.
 
1-year extension if I were in charge.
Click to expand...

You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.
Click to expand...

This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?
Click to expand...

if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right
Click to expand...

Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

That’s absurd. He’s one of the top-25 highest paid coaches in the country and he’s drastically underperformed this season. But somehow he gets all the leverage in this negotiation??

He needs to get off to a good start next season with his veteran players AND recruit his butt off. Then, and only then, should SJU extend him.

He is damaged goods right now as D1 coach. No way, no how, is anyone going to offer him remotely close to $12 million++ for 6 years. He would also make far less if he went back to TV. Why does everybody act like Lavin has all the leverage here?
Click to expand...

It's not a matter of refusing to recruit 15 kids. It is an issue that recruits & parents may not commit to a coach who might not be around very long. Not suggesting what to do, simply laying out the dilemma.
Click to expand...

Parents might not also commit to a coach who has demonstrated that he cannot further develop their kids--and may in fact see regression.
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Can't argue with that.
 
I am not a Lavin defender but I also do not want him fired and think an extension is warranted as recruits need to see continuity in program. Also if Lavin is fired who else would take over the program? The hiring pool of qualified and capable coaching candidates willing to come here is short and practically non-existent.
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What?? St John's is paying Lavin a rate that puts him in the top 25 highest-paid coaches in the country. It defies all logic to say that there aren't plenty of high-caliber people who would want to come to a high-profile media market like NYC and make $2 million+ / year.

PS: Lavin also got a $1 million relocation loan to move here, which I am willing to bet is interest-free and forgivable.
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Could you or someone find a source that lists Lavin at #25 among college coaches. In 2013, the top 20 paid coaches in the NCAA tournament made from $1.8 million to $7.2 million but that was 2013, and also only tournanment teams - every year a number of top schools don't make the tournament. I really don't care very much about what a guy makes. While I contribute to Red White, my donation isn't making a big dent in the coaches salary. He's either competent or incompetent. Of course, you could be in a totally different position than I am and are financing part of Lavin's salary, in which case a public board is a waste of time, when you can just have lunch with Monasch.
 
I think Lavin should get an extension. He has had us in a post-season tournament 3 out of the 4yrs he has been here, even if 2 of them have been the NIT. And wasn't the only time we weren't in the postseason was when he was out the majority of the year because of cancer?

I think the biggest thing our program needs right now is some stability. That was evident this season when it seems like almost every game we had a different rotation or someone was not playing for whatever reason. Once we got some stability with our players, our season really turned around. We need to have that same type of stability with our coaching staff. The kids and the staff both need to know that they are here for the long haul. I don't believe that switching coaches every 4-5years is the way to success, especially when Lavin has been winning.

BTW, who would they possibly bring in here to replace him anyways? I just dont see us drawing any attention from any of the big name guys (ex:Crean). That leaves us with taking a chance on either an assistant coach somewhere or a smaller school's current head coach. The results of that are unknown and could potentially lead us to Norm Roberts part II. But the replacement could turn out to be great. Brad Stevens anyone? A young guy who knows the game and is successful. He used Butler to make a name for himself and then left at the first opportunity he got. I don't want something like that to happen to this program, because if it does, we are back to square one and having this same debate in a few years.

I truly feel as though Lavin should get another 3-4yrs. He is a great recruiter, a decent coach, and a solid face of the program. If things aren't better in 3 or 4 years, then we can start talking about getting rid of him.
 
But the replacement could turn out to be great. Brad Stevens anyone? A young guy who knows the game and is successful. He used Butler to make a name for himself and then left at the first opportunity he got. I don't want something like that to happen to this program, because if it does, we are back to square one and having this same debate in a few years.
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He went to 5 NCAAs in 6 years, including 2 National Championship games. That would be enough success to hold this program over for another 30 years!
But you don't want to hire a good young coach because he might succeed and then leave??

Sheesh
 
But the replacement could turn out to be great. Brad Stevens anyone? A young guy who knows the game and is successful. He used Butler to make a name for himself and then left at the first opportunity he got. I don't want something like that to happen to this program, because if it does, we are back to square one and having this same debate in a few years.
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He went to 5 NCAAs in 6 years, including 2 National Championship games. That would be enough success to hold this program over for another 30 years!
But you don't want to hire a good young coach because he might succeed and then leave??

Sheesh
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Will Lav continue to be a "great" recruiter if he does not get us into NCAA tourney more often than not? This is not UCLA. Coaching there had more advantages. ($$$) Just asking.
 
I am not a Lavin defender but I also do not want him fired and think an extension is warranted as recruits need to see continuity in program. Also if Lavin is fired who else would take over the program? The hiring pool of qualified and capable coaching candidates willing to come here is short and practically non-existent.
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What?? St John's is paying Lavin a rate that puts him in the top 25 highest-paid coaches in the country. It defies all logic to say that there aren't plenty of high-caliber people who would want to come to a high-profile media market like NYC and make $2 million+ / year.

PS: Lavin also got a $1 million relocation loan to move here, which I am willing to bet is interest-free and forgivable.
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Could you or someone find a source that lists Lavin at #25 among college coaches. In 2013, the top 20 paid coaches in the NCAA tournament made from $1.8 million to $7.2 million but that was 2013, and also only tournanment teams - every year a number of top schools don't make the tournament. I really don't care very much about what a guy makes. While I contribute to Red White, my donation isn't making a big dent in the coaches salary. He's either competent or incompetent. Of course, you could be in a totally different position than I am and are financing part of Lavin's salary, in which case a public board is a waste of time, when you can just have lunch with Monasch.
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I am using the pay data for coaches of NCAA tournament teams and applying common sense. According to the last available St John’s tax filling, Lavin was paid $2 million in 2011 (not including the $1 million relocation loan). According to USA Today, #25 on the list of highest-paid coaches that made the tournament in 2013 made $1.5 million. Unless you think Lavin took a pay cut in the last 2 years—which I don’t—he’s easily in the top 25.

I DO care about Lavin’s compensation. Why? Because it speaks to the ability and willingness of St John’s to recruit a top-caliber coach. As I said previously, it defies all logic to say that there aren't plenty of high-caliber people who would want to come to a high-profile media market like NYC and make $2 million+ / year. (Plus a generous relocation stipend.)
 
Say what you want about Lavin but don't call him dumb. Under achieve on a very well paid contract but force the administration to extend him because not doing so would hurt recruiting for future years.
 
I'm not bent out of shape at all over last night. It's the NIT. These kids know they are an NCAA tournament caliber team. This isn't where they wanted to be. Robert Morris on the other hand is pumped to be in the NIT and the energy level showed last night. I find filling out NIT brackets are 10 times harder than the NCAA tournament brackets. Not everyone is pumped to be there. 1 seeds lose to 8 seeds in that tournament all the time no big deal. No one is watching anyway except fans of these teams. Nobody outside us will remember this. The NIT is just bonus games. They mean nothing.

I'm still livid about the effort level in the Providence game. That's when their season ended.
 
I'm not bent out of shape at all over last night. It's the NIT. These kids know they are an NCAA tournament caliber team. This isn't where they wanted to be. Robert Morris on the other hand is pumped to be in the NIT and the energy level showed last night. I find filling out NIT brackets are 10 times harder than the NCAA tournament brackets. Not everyone is pumped to be there. 1 seeds lose to 8 seeds in that tournament all the time no big deal. No one is watching anyway except fans of these teams. Nobody outside us will remember this. The NIT is just bonus games. They mean nothing.

I'm still livid about the effort level in the Providence game. That's when their season ended.
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Solid post. Agree.
 
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