So after tonight should Lavin...

[jumbo_peanuts]

But the replacement could turn out to be great. Brad Stevens anyone? A young guy who knows the game and is successful. He used Butler to make a name for himself and then left at the first opportunity he got. I don't want something like that to happen to this program, because if it does, we are back to square one and having this same debate in a few years.

He went to 5 NCAAs in 6 years, including 2 National Championship games. That would be enough success to hold this program over for another 30 years!
But you don't want to hire a good young coach because he might succeed and then leave??

Sheesh

No I don't, because then what are you left with? A bunch of old fans that sit around and talk about the 'good old days'.

 

[1and1sju]

I am not a Lavin defender but I also do not want him fired and think an extension is warranted as recruits need to see continuity in program. Also if Lavin is fired who else would take over the program? The hiring pool of qualified and capable coaching candidates willing to come here is short and practically non-existent.

What?? St John's is paying Lavin a rate that puts him in the top 25 highest-paid coaches in the country. It defies all logic to say that there aren't plenty of high-caliber people who would want to come to a high-profile media market like NYC and make $2 million+ / year.

PS: Lavin also got a $1 million relocation loan to move here, which I am willing to bet is interest-free and forgivable.

Could you or someone find a source that lists Lavin at #25 among college coaches. In 2013, the top 20 paid coaches in the NCAA tournament made from $1.8 million to $7.2 million but that was 2013, and also only tournanment teams - every year a number of top schools don't make the tournament. I really don't care very much about what a guy makes. While I contribute to Red White, my donation isn't making a big dent in the coaches salary. He's either competent or incompetent. Of course, you could be in a totally different position than I am and are financing part of Lavin's salary, in which case a public board is a waste of time, when you can just have lunch with Monasch.

You're not wrong.
I think whether he makes $1m or $1.6m, and whether he's #23 or #31 among active coaches is pretty irrelevant.

Simmon's larger point is a good one though. Everyone says we couldn't get a talented coach (whether young or experienced) to come here - and they use Norm as an example. But the truth is if were able to pay Lavin's rate (aka above $1m) we'll certainly attract better candidates. But if we go back to offering $500k or whatever Norm got, then we probably won't be able to attract the better candidates, regardless of whether they are established names or young guns.

But I don't think Lavin making X amount of money means the expectations should be any higher or he owes us more. That's nonsense.

 

[room112]

I am not a Lavin defender but I also do not want him fired and think an extension is warranted as recruits need to see continuity in program. Also if Lavin is fired who else would take over the program? The hiring pool of qualified and capable coaching candidates willing to come here is short and practically non-existent.

What?? St John's is paying Lavin a rate that puts him in the top 25 highest-paid coaches in the country. It defies all logic to say that there aren't plenty of high-caliber people who would want to come to a high-profile media market like NYC and make $2 million+ / year.

PS: Lavin also got a $1 million relocation loan to move here, which I am willing to bet is interest-free and forgivable.

Could you or someone find a source that lists Lavin at #25 among college coaches. In 2013, the top 20 paid coaches in the NCAA tournament made from $1.8 million to $7.2 million but that was 2013, and also only tournanment teams - every year a number of top schools don't make the tournament. I really don't care very much about what a guy makes. While I contribute to Red White, my donation isn't making a big dent in the coaches salary. He's either competent or incompetent. Of course, you could be in a totally different position than I am and are financing part of Lavin's salary, in which case a public board is a waste of time, when you can just have lunch with Monasch.

You're not wrong.
I think whether he makes $1m or $1.6m, and whether he's #23 or #31 among active coaches is pretty irrelevant.

Simmon's larger point is a good one though. Everyone says we couldn't get a talented coach (whether young or experienced) to come here - and they use Norm as an example. But the truth is if were able to pay Lavin's rate (aka above $1m) we'll certainly attract better candidates. But if we go back to offering $500k or whatever Norm got, then we probably won't be able to attract the better candidates, regardless of whether they are established names or young guns.

But I don't think Lavin making X amount of money means the expectations should be any higher or he owes us more. That's nonsense.

I don't think Norm is a good example to use because although he had shown results recruiting for a top level program, his coaching record was extremely suspect (Queens College, losing record).

I'm starting to warm up more to the idea that a young, hungry, talented coach who has shown the ability to have success at a mid major school could do well here. However, he'd have to have the right people on his staff, including legit recruiters.

 

[westchesterjoe]

Many of us might want to consider this scenario, before opening the Big Wallet again for Steve.. What if next year, we finish 4th or 5th again in the BE? It could happen, behind,Nova,Xavier,Marquette, G'town , even Seton Hall.. Miss the dance again and head for our 3rd straight NIT? Then in 2015-16 we again have a team of 5-6 frosh and finish 11-19, 9th in the league. Does Lavin get fired then or, get ANOTHER extension? He would likely have a big buyout clause.

We can all hope for a turnaround but, does Lavin really show the gear to get us to the Dance continuously? With his hand picked players?
It's a legit question to ask.
Of course, many of the posting community here continue to see blue skies ahead.. Haven't we seen enough in 4 years of STEVE to, at least, have serious doubts?

 

[BOB BARKER]

Lavin is being paid in the Phil Jackson neighborhood...how many rings does Steve have.....We're stuck in the Norm cycle....Next yr,Big year,maybe.Yr later,some freshman and Canary Island recruits...BTW, Besides Harrison,can anybody shoot foul shots...3-4 games were lost on the line....

 

[monte]

But the replacement could turn out to be great. Brad Stevens anyone? A young guy who knows the game and is successful. He used Butler to make a name for himself and then left at the first opportunity he got. I don't want something like that to happen to this program, because if it does, we are back to square one and having this same debate in a few years.

He went to 5 NCAAs in 6 years, including 2 National Championship games. That would be enough success to hold this program over for another 30 years!
But you don't want to hire a good young coach because he might succeed and then leave??

Sheesh

No I don't, because then what are you left with? A bunch of old fans that sit around and talk about the 'good old days'.

I'm just thankful I have the "good old days" to reminisce about. I only hope you can do the same thing with regards to our program when you become an old fart.

 

[SJUalum98]

I'm not bent out of shape at all over last night. It's the NIT. These kids know they are an NCAA tournament caliber team. This isn't where they wanted to be. Robert Morris on the other hand is pumped to be in the NIT and the energy level showed last night. I find filling out NIT brackets are 10 times harder than the NCAA tournament brackets. Not everyone is pumped to be there. 1 seeds lose to 8 seeds in that tournament all the time no big deal. No one is watching anyway except fans of these teams. Nobody outside us will remember this. The NIT is just bonus games. They mean nothing.

I'm still livid about the effort level in the Providence game. That's when their season ended.

This is the biggest lie going to date.

And it's why I think the team looks so bad out there because everyone from the coaches down to the players think all they have to do is show up.

Teams have to earn that right.

 

[beast of the east]

I am not a Lavin defender but I also do not want him fired and think an extension is warranted as recruits need to see continuity in program. Also if Lavin is fired who else would take over the program? The hiring pool of qualified and capable coaching candidates willing to come here is short and practically non-existent.

What?? St John's is paying Lavin a rate that puts him in the top 25 highest-paid coaches in the country. It defies all logic to say that there aren't plenty of high-caliber people who would want to come to a high-profile media market like NYC and make $2 million+ / year.

PS: Lavin also got a $1 million relocation loan to move here, which I am willing to bet is interest-free and forgivable.

Could you or someone find a source that lists Lavin at #25 among college coaches. In 2013, the top 20 paid coaches in the NCAA tournament made from $1.8 million to $7.2 million but that was 2013, and also only tournanment teams - every year a number of top schools don't make the tournament. I really don't care very much about what a guy makes. While I contribute to Red White, my donation isn't making a big dent in the coaches salary. He's either competent or incompetent. Of course, you could be in a totally different position than I am and are financing part of Lavin's salary, in which case a public board is a waste of time, when you can just have lunch with Monasch.

I am using the pay data for coaches of NCAA tournament teams and applying common sense. According to the last available St John’s tax filling, Lavin was paid $2 million in 2011 (not including the $1 million relocation loan). According to USA Today, #25 on the list of highest-paid coaches that made the tournament in 2013 made $1.5 million. Unless you think Lavin took a pay cut in the last 2 years—which I don’t—he’s easily in the top 25.

I DO care about Lavin’s compensation. Why? Because it speaks to the ability and willingness of St John’s to recruit a top-caliber coach. As I said previously, it defies all logic to say that there aren't plenty of high-caliber people who would want to come to a high-profile media market like NYC and make $2 million+ / year. (Plus a generous relocation stipend.)

If you are using NCAA tournament data, then you made an assertion without knowing. That's the problem with guys like you. You say something, and when called on it, can't defend it adequately. Yes, Lavin is well compensated. After buying less expensive coaches for years, generous alumni stepped up and convinced SJU to spend for something better. Presumably at his deal Lavin was considered the best of the lot. At $5 million, Billy Donovan could consider us but likely say no. Why? He's is a better place in a state with no income , a better climate, a lower cost of living, and NYS tax is 10% -which doesn't allows for his 3.7 million. I say Donovan because his name has been tossed around a lot here, when clearly the price of anteing up was always far more than we had to spend.

if you really care about Lavin's compensation, write St. John's a check today and earmark it towards athletics. It may be something that you can afford, $50, $100, $250, but when enough fans do that then you've bought a small stake in the team's future. Buy season tickets, which helps to bring in revenue for the school. You can buy a partial plan for a few hundred bucks.

I'm not going to flame the board with defending the team's performance under Lavin this year. It's indefensible to say that the team performed well with the roster we had. Then again, I'm certain that far worse coached teams have gone much deeper into the tourney. Simply put, the talent level couldn't overcome Lavin's bench abilities.

Look at out history post Carnsecca.

Hired internally (Mahoney) after a search committee couldn't identify any interest from high level targets.

Hired a mid major guy (Fraschilla) who had some success, but torpedoed himself with questionable actions and disregarded the first rule of employment which is to respect your employer.

Hired a well respected guy with a resume (Jarvis) who had done well at GW, and presumably helped Ewing develop in HS.

Hired a neophyte (Roberts) who recruited for a big time program, who did the best sell job ever on Harrington, who fell for it.

Finally opened the vault and spent serious cash (Lavin) who recrruited far above his two predecessors, but hasn't produced on the court.

So, here's the thing, for me at least, and I think is common sense. The team did an amazing job of reversing an 0-5 start, which was partially due to scheduling 3 of 5 away, and the 4th against the eventual BE champion. The Providence home loss is on him, for a dumb substitution with the game at hand and an even worse job by the kid he put in. Even the flamers on here gave Lavin credit for turning 0-5 into 8-6. I thought the team did not play well in that 8th win, and Villanova loss at Nova was a game that was winnable and we played horrible. So they stumbled home. At 8-6, most were on board to extend him and gave him credit for turning things around. So they stumble home and 10-8 and tank in the BET and NIT. for finishing 2-4? I don't think so. But I'm not going to say he's the greatest game coach ever.

 

[beast of the east]

Lavin is being paid in the Phil Jackson neighborhood...how many rings does Steve have.....We're stuck in the Norm cycle....Next yr,Big year,maybe.Yr later,some freshman and Canary Island recruits...BTW, Besides Harrison,can anybody shoot foul shots...3-4 games were lost on the line....

That's kind of funny. I think while Lavin makes more than most of us, he doesn't live in Phil Jackson's neighborhood. That's like saying Ike Davis makes A-Rod money.

 

[SJUISBACK]

1-year extension if I were in charge.

You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.

This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?

if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right

Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

That’s absurd. He’s one of the top-25 highest paid coaches in the country and he’s drastically underperformed this season. But somehow he gets all the leverage in this negotiation??

He needs to get off to a good start next season with his veteran players AND recruit his butt off. Then, and only then, should SJU extend him.

He is damaged goods right now as D1 coach. No way, no how, is anyone going to offer him remotely close to $12 million++ for 6 years. He would also make far less if he went back to TV. Why does everybody act like Lavin has all the leverage here?

It's not a matter of refusing to recruit 15 kids. It is an issue that recruits & parents may not commit to a coach who might not be around very long. Not suggesting what to do, simply laying out the dilemma.

Paultz, so if we extend Lavin, is there a guarantee that we land Briscoe and Diallo? Negative.
So what if we extend him and he busts on those two and other top ballers, and we end up with 4 star kids, the same as these kids.
Then it`ll be another 4 or 5 years with him, with kids that can`t shoot, and the same damn results.

Nah I`ll pass on that.

 

[SJUISBACK]

1-year extension if I were in charge.

You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.

This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?

if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right

Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

That’s absurd. He’s one of the top-25 highest paid coaches in the country and he’s drastically underperformed this season. But somehow he gets all the leverage in this negotiation??

He needs to get off to a good start next season with his veteran players AND recruit his butt off. Then, and only then, should SJU extend him.

He is damaged goods right now as D1 coach. No way, no how, is anyone going to offer him remotely close to $12 million++ for 6 years. He would also make far less if he went back to TV. Why does everybody act like Lavin has all the leverage here?

It's not a matter of refusing to recruit 15 kids. It is an issue that recruits & parents may not commit to a coach who might not be around very long. Not suggesting what to do, simply laying out the dilemma.

Paultz, so if we extend Lavin, is there a guarantee that we land Briscoe and Diallo? Negative.
So what if we extend him and he busts on those two and other top ballers, and we end up with 4 star kids, the same as these kids.
Then it`ll be another 4 or 5 years with him, with kids that can`t shoot, and the same damn results.

Nah I`ll pass on that.

Sorry for the double post

 

[Marillac]

We are all pissed, but he deserves an extenstion. Two 20-win seasons...cancer...replacing his 1st assistant....losing a top 15 pick unexpectedly after a year....no senior yet...huge turnover he had to replace year 2.

Give him a two year extension and layout the expectations.

 

[SJUISBACK]

We are all pissed, but he deserves an extenstion. Two 20-win seasons...cancer...replacing his 1st assistant....losing a top 15 pick unexpectedly after a year....no senior yet...huge turnover he had to replace year 2.

Give him a two year extension and layout the expectations.

Hell yeah, give him a two year extension, plus up the money to 3 million per year while you`re at it.
Lets reward for getting to the f`ing NIT the last two years, and 2 recruits in 2 years when Adonis.

COOL BEANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[beast of the east]

We are all pissed, but he deserves an extenstion. Two 20-win seasons...cancer...replacing his 1st assistant....losing a top 15 pick unexpectedly after a year....no senior yet...huge turnover he had to replace year 2.

Give him a two year extension and layout the expectations.

I wonder if we'd all feel better if at the end of the NIT loss he tossed chairs onto the court and choked a few players?

Probably

 

[newsman13]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

 

[SJUISBACK]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Post season = NIT. Yes everyone, just settle for the NIT.
I`ll quit before I ever settle, settling are for losers, that`s how I look at it.

I know I`ll get killed for saying that, but so be it.

 

[mkras99]

1-year extension if I were in charge.

You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.

This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?

if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right

Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

That’s absurd. He’s one of the top-25 highest paid coaches in the country and he’s drastically underperformed this season. But somehow he gets all the leverage in this negotiation??

He needs to get off to a good start next season with his veteran players AND recruit his butt off. Then, and only then, should SJU extend him.

He is damaged goods right now as D1 coach. No way, no how, is anyone going to offer him remotely close to $12 million++ for 6 years. He would also make far less if he went back to TV. Why does everybody act like Lavin has all the leverage here?

It's not a matter of refusing to recruit 15 kids. It is an issue that recruits & parents may not commit to a coach who might not be around very long. Not suggesting what to do, simply laying out the dilemma.

Paultz, so if we extend Lavin, is there a guarantee that we land Briscoe and Diallo? Negative.
So what if we extend him and he busts on those two and other top ballers, and we end up with 4 star kids, the same as these kids.
Then it`ll be another 4 or 5 years with him, with kids that can`t shoot, and the same damn results.

Nah I`ll pass on that.

How many four star (of five star for that matter) kids were we getting before Lavin? Consider yourself very lucky if w keep getting four star kids, no matter who the coach is.

 

[SJUISBACK]

1-year extension if I were in charge.

You'd probably have to do what you stated you wouldn't do. I could be wrong, but I doubt he signs a 1-year extension.

This is tricky. With critical 15 recruiting coming up, you need to think this through a bit. It's easy to say, one year or don't extend him, but what are consequences? This coming from someone who is not a fan of Steve. Lol Btw, will SJU designate a new President in my lifetime?

if you are going to extend him you have to do it for more than a year. 4 years with 2 years guaranteed or something on top of his 2 years remaining

1 year extension is a waste of time and if he had a great year next year but didn't recruit for 2015 it would be easy for him to walk and take a job opening. You need to lock it in right both ways if you are going to do it right

Wait a second. Are you saying that Lavin—with 2 years still remaining on his contract—will refuse to recruit for 2015 unless his contract is extended right now?

That’s absurd. He’s one of the top-25 highest paid coaches in the country and he’s drastically underperformed this season. But somehow he gets all the leverage in this negotiation??

He needs to get off to a good start next season with his veteran players AND recruit his butt off. Then, and only then, should SJU extend him.

He is damaged goods right now as D1 coach. No way, no how, is anyone going to offer him remotely close to $12 million++ for 6 years. He would also make far less if he went back to TV. Why does everybody act like Lavin has all the leverage here?

It's not a matter of refusing to recruit 15 kids. It is an issue that recruits & parents may not commit to a coach who might not be around very long. Not suggesting what to do, simply laying out the dilemma.

Paultz, so if we extend Lavin, is there a guarantee that we land Briscoe and Diallo? Negative.
So what if we extend him and he busts on those two and other top ballers, and we end up with 4 star kids, the same as these kids.
Then it`ll be another 4 or 5 years with him, with kids that can`t shoot, and the same damn results.

Nah I`ll pass on that.

How many four star (of five star for that matter) kids were we getting before Lavin? Consider yourself very lucky if w keep getting four star kids, no matter who the coach is.

But what does it matter if we`re still not in the NCAA tournament? Oh I get it, we`re more competitive, right?

 

[austour]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Some might read that as cynical, especially given your image, but it's really rational. However Lou took 15 of his last 17 teams to the dance (88%) and the other two to the NIT including the championship 1 year. Now anyone who thinks STJ can become Duke, Ky, Kansas, etc... is clearly delusional (sometimes I wonder if you fit that mold or if you just find it hard to shift away from unachievably high standards) but do you think Lavin, or anyone else for that matter, is going to mirror Lou's achievements? Honest question. It's a far more competitive landscape on one side while the program, both internally and externally, has been lowered in appeal on the other. I'd love to have someone who would make the dance more than 60% of the time myself and yet I'm not even sure that is reasonable.

 

[beast of the east]

This is what we can always expect from Lavin. He sees himself as more of a teacher than a coach. Lavin recruits good players. Good but soft. Dunlap was the hardass we miss. He needs to get a few two or three star NYC players who can toughen up the rest of the guys. I can't remember a team this soft at St John's. He can get NYC guys. He probably can't get Mcdonald AA's. That's too bad because you win with stars, not x's and o's.

If we extend Lavin, we'll get Looie results. Looies players weren't soft, but he never had a deep enough bench to go very far.

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more realistic. This team will always disappoint. If you bring in a mid major coach, it'll disappoint more. Lavin will at least get us to a post season more often than not.

Extend him.

Post season = NIT. Yes everyone, just settle for the NIT.
I`ll quit before I ever settle, settling are for losers, that`s how I look at it.

I know I`ll get killed for saying that, but so be it.

You have a perfect right to say what you feel.

But keep in mind, you can still be a loser even if you don't settle, right?