(POST GAME) St. Peter’s, Wed., Nov. 25, 7p, FS2 / 970 AM WNYM

[quote="Paultzman" post=403215]Greg is a great kid and athlete, but he needs to show the “breakout season” fans talk about in his third year. Time to step up and distinguish himself as a key, reliable main cog v a rotational guy with occasional flashes. He seems to have skill to do that, but to me jury is still out.[/quote]

Big difference between putting together a nice 7 or 8 game run, and putting together a season. Marvin Clark had a great short run within his final season, then went ice cold.
 
I'll be the optimist:

Let's see how they respond tomorrow. This is a really interesting team. There are a few major pieces here that we didn't have last season. Maybe I'm insane saying this after what we just watched but even though this game was painful when I see the pieces on this team, I do think there's something here.

I'm not saying we aren't all correct to be upset with that performance. It was awful. The defense was atrocious. Everywhere except whoever Posh was guarding. They couldn't guard the perimeter. they couldn't guard the interior and the press was inconsistent at best. That being said, I don't think we can assume from one game that this is just a team that is now doomed to be a bad team defensively. The track record of the coach and team tells me that they'll be better so until a pattern develops, I'm going to assume there will be a reversion to the mean. And even if the "mean" is somewhat worse than last season, I don't think it will be THIS. And I do think our offense will improve from last season.

So I still think this team takes a step forward from last year. There's just more talent. Also we started off strong against our first few cupcakes last season and still had trouble starting off conference play. Providence was a joke and then became the hottest team in the Big East. Maybe our guys getting humbled by a low-major yet not being penalized in the loss column isn't the worst thing in the world?

And if none of that cheers you up: we have a stud PG for the next 4 years, a real sharpshooter (not one we have to talk ourselves into) and Champagnie is still on the way to help this group out.
 
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Team really missed Champ's toughness inside. Still no excuse for the poor defensive effort. St. Peter's looked like the better coached and more disciplined team all night, and had 2 or 3 players that showed superior athleticism to anyone St. John's had out there. If Cole doesn't shoot like Mullin this would have been an ugly loss.
 
Yes Moose, the NCAA made an exception this year because of Covid allowing regular summer practices, unlike past years. They also allowed football teams to start earlier to get their bodies back to practice state as they too were not allowed to have spring practice like previous years . Typically, hoops teams can have regular practice, albeit shortened hours till Finals week. Since school shut down in March, as well as all practices, players were sent home, and were sent video strength workouts and weekly zoom team meetings.The NCAA committees recognized teams missed these important developmental post season workouts and had emergency legislation passed allowing formal team conditioning and practices earlier in July to reacclimate their bodies. SJU made special arrangements for housing placing players in off campus dorms as campus was still closed to on campus dorms.
But you are right, in previous years, team were only allowed informal summer workouts ;) It will be interesting if the NCAA will continue allowing the formal team practice schedules in the future
 
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[quote="MCNPA" post=403246]I’d add I was also disappointed with Toro today. He didn’t win a lot of rebounds I’d expect him to for a 5th year kid known for his rebounding. He should have owned the glass when he was in there. Need better from him.[/quote]

Mcnpa, every year we do this, get excited about how we finished last year, say the new comers look great, everyone on the board is excited, then tonight happens where we're lucky to win.
Hopefully we get a better all around game on t'giving.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=403246]I’d add I was also disappointed with Toro today. He didn’t win a lot of rebounds I’d expect him to for a 5th year kid known for his rebounding. He should have owned the glass when he was in there. Need better from him.[/quote]

He missed a wide open layup in the second half, that was in the running for the worst miss I've ever seen, until about 30 seconds later, when one of the kids from St. Peter's one-upped him in that department.
 
[quote="AJ Hidell" post=403255]Yes Moose, the NCAA made an exception this year because of Covid allowing regular summer practices, unlike past years. They also allowed football teams to start earlier to get their bodies back to practice state as they too were not allowed to have spring practice like previous years . Typically, hoops teams can have regular practice, albeit shortened hours till Finals week. Since school shut down in March, as well as all practices, players were sent home, and were sent video strength workouts and weekly zoom team meetings.The NCAA committees recognized teams missed these important developmental post season workouts and had emergency legislation passed allowing formal team conditioning and practices earlier in July to reacclimate their bodies. SJU made special arrangements for housing placing players in off campus dorms as campus was still closed to on campus dorms.
But you are right, in previous years, team were only allowed informal summer workouts ;) It will be interesting if the NCAA will continue allowing the formal team practice schedules in the future[/quote]

Clearly you know a lot of the specifics to the practices and such. But the vibe I’m getting from your post is while connected in some way you're surprised at how bad they looked with ‘all this extra time’ that they received.

Am I right ?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=403251][quote="Paultzman" post=403215]Greg is a great kid and athlete, but he needs to show the “breakout season” fans talk about in his third year. Time to step up and distinguish himself as a key, reliable main cog v a rotational guy with occasional flashes. He seems to have skill to do that, but to me jury is still out.[/quote]

Big difference between putting together a nice 7 or 8 game run, and putting together a season. Marvin Clark had a great short run within his final season, then went ice cold.[/quote]

If it's timed right (like in March), a big 7 or 8 game run can be more rewarding then a solid all-around season.
 
Did not watch the game...read some of the post game comments on the board that said some players looked like they needed more practice and conditioning.
 
Not concerned with the poor performance. It's why everyone starts with an easy game.

I discount Moore's performance somewhat. Bigs play better against subpar competition. Everyone got so excited when Robert's was chewing up bad teams in the OOC schedule. Against big east competition it showed he had not improved all that much.

Also not surprised that returning players didn't have big games. The roster has improved a lot, and for most guys. It sticks in their heads when new teammates are clearly better.

Still, returning players will find their role in the rotation, and new guys will get more comfortable. Play will improve. We will be okay.
 
[quote="AJ Hidell" post=403261]Did not watch the game...read some of the post game comments on the board that said some players looked like they needed more practice and conditioning.[/quote]

I thought they looked to be in fine shape (I was a little spooked when they said Wusu was 6-4, 230 lbs., but it's all muscle). The timing did not appear to be there defensively. Running a defense like this is almost like running an offense, in that timing and chemistry are important, because lack of it leads to blown assignments. That sounds bad going forward, but I do think it can change on a game-to-game basis.

We also had to pick our poison, because they were hot from three (and never really cooled down, which will happen to some teams by accident), and when we did locate the shooters, St. Peter's passed very well inside, and we got burned (that's where not having Julian hurt). Finally, with about 2 or 3 minutes left, we took our chances on letting them go inside, and it was just effective enough.

I also think it was the right move to foul with 38 seconds left (SPU actually did a good job avoiding it for about 10 seconds). Yes, he made both, but it still stopped the clock, and meant extra possessions, and you saw what we did with that, in the end. Mullin used to play those possessions out defensively, and it drove me crazy every time.
 
Not a great game, but also not concerned at all. I typically hate this saying, but it's true that the team needs time to gel. If defense is our biggest problem, we're in luck because CMA teams play defense.

I, too, am waiting for Greg Williams to take the next step. He appears to be trying to play within himself to a fault. Time to just let it rip, Greg.

Of course we missed Champaignie, but I am afraid we're putting too much on this kid. He is a sophomore who had a promising first year while operating under the radar. I don't think Champ is the kind of player who puts a team on his back. He will help us significantly, but I am not elevating him to stud status just yet.

I agree with Beast on Moore. He is a much better talent than I imagined, but the paint lookS a lot different against BE opponents.

Very promising newcomers......if we have a season, this is going to be fun.
 
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[quote="Making Plays" post=403250][quote="Logen" post=403191][quote="Making Plays" post=403168][quote="Mean Gene" post=403159]That might have been the worst defensive game I’ve ever seen a CMA team play.[/quote]

That's what happens when you don't get much time to practice and have a team full of newcomers, it's going to be a learn as you go season, not only for the Johnnies but for other teams as well. This season due to covid is going to be absolutely crazy and unpredictable. There will be some teams with no practice for 2 weeks after a positive test going into a game. There's already been a few upsets tonight.

This just happened.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1331781117607809026[/quote]

Disagree, St. Peter’s had 10 practices going into the game and lost two top players from last year to transfer. Getting beat consistently off the dribble is not from lack of practice. Defense is desire and starts with taking pride in keeping your man in front of you. Protecting the rim and help rotation should be second nature at this level and we showed neither. I believe it was Mean Gene who pointed out, just a horrible defensive game.[/quote]

The post I was responding to was the guy was saying this was the worst defensively he's ever seen a CMA team play. The reason for that as I posted was because lack of practice time due to covid and 5 of his top 10 players are newcomers.

CMA's 40 minutes of hell defense takes a lot of practice and organization, despite what some people think, it's not just him running guys out there and pressing and something that's learned in a few practices, it takes a lot of time and communication to get those rotations down, even the highest of IQ newcomers take a while to pick it up, that's why you always hear CMA joke when he has a lot of new players that it's going to probably be 10 minutes of hell and 30 minutes of what the hell, because he knows it takes a while for kids to pick it up. I don't care if the other team only had 1 practice together, if guys haven't fully picked up the defense yet, it's not going to look good no matter who the opponent is, a lot of guys were out of position tonight, as they get more experience in the system that will get cleaned up.[/quote]

The breakdowns on defense and the non-existence of help were of the manner I wouldn’t expect to see in a decent pickup game. Sorry but I disagree that lack of practice had anything to do with what I saw tonight.
 
I predict a lot of games like this this year. The biggest advantage high major teams have over smaller conference teams is that they get to be the home team all the time. No crowds and less pressure will even the playing field a lot more. There’s a reason good mid major teams struggle to find opponents because high majors don’t want to risk losing to them. I’ll give St. Pete their props they have some good young guys and Holloway has them playing hard; he was definitely ready to be a head coach. Just one game I wouldn’t pass judgement on our returning guys just yet it’s too soon. Pulled this one out of their ass though, good game to learn from.
 
[quote="Logen" post=403274][quote="Making Plays" post=403250][quote="Logen" post=403191][quote="Making Plays" post=403168][quote="Mean Gene" post=403159]That might have been the worst defensive game I’ve ever seen a CMA team play.[/quote]

That's what happens when you don't get much time to practice and have a team full of newcomers, it's going to be a learn as you go season, not only for the Johnnies but for other teams as well. This season due to covid is going to be absolutely crazy and unpredictable. There will be some teams with no practice for 2 weeks after a positive test going into a game. There's already been a few upsets tonight.

This just happened.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1331781117607809026[/quote]

Disagree, St. Peter’s had 10 practices going into the game and lost two top players from last year to transfer. Getting beat consistently off the dribble is not from lack of practice. Defense is desire and starts with taking pride in keeping your man in front of you. Protecting the rim and help rotation should be second nature at this level and we showed neither. I believe it was Mean Gene who pointed out, just a horrible defensive game.[/quote]

The post I was responding to was the guy was saying this was the worst defensively he's ever seen a CMA team play. The reason for that as I posted was because lack of practice time due to covid and 5 of his top 10 players are newcomers.

CMA's 40 minutes of hell defense takes a lot of practice and organization, despite what some people think, it's not just him running guys out there and pressing and something that's learned in a few practices, it takes a lot of time and communication to get those rotations down, even the highest of IQ newcomers take a while to pick it up, that's why you always hear CMA joke when he has a lot of new players that it's going to probably be 10 minutes of hell and 30 minutes of what the hell, because he knows it takes a while for kids to pick it up. I don't care if the other team only had 1 practice together, if guys haven't fully picked up the defense yet, it's not going to look good no matter who the opponent is, a lot of guys were out of position tonight, as they get more experience in the system that will get cleaned up.[/quote]

The breakdowns on defense and the non-existence of help were of the manner I wouldn’t expect to see in a decent pickup game. Sorry but I disagree that lack of practice had anything to do with what I saw tonight.[/quote]

Well you know more than the coach then about his own players, because he literally echoed what I was saying in the post game press conference. Said it's a weird year with practice restrictions and everything due to covid, referenced guys being out due to injury, not having exhibition games to work things out, and it being a different environment without fans, said guys have got to get use to that and said as a coach he has to take all that into consideration, and they will learn from it and get better.

Also, if you think they looked worse than a decent pick-up game, that tells me you didn't watch any other college basketball games today. There were several upsets and there were teams that were suppose to be really good not look good at all today. #15 West Virginia looked horrible in the second half of their game and blew a 12 point lead to South Dakota State and it was a 4 point game with under 2 minutes left. #22 UCLA get blew out by San Diego State, Pitt lost to St. Francis, Kansas State lost to Drake. It's going to be an odd year, the shortened practice schedule is without a doubt affecting teams.
 
Holy shit. It was their first game playing together as a whole. There were no exhibition games to get practice as a full rotation. Some guys looked rusty and maybe didn't play as hard or smart as they could have. At the end of the day we won a game that most other years we would've lost. That 3 pointer by Cole was clutch af! Regroup and get back at it this afternoon. It's gonna take a few games to start clicking. To win a game without arguably our best returning player and our other returners taking the night off says a lot about our new guys in my opinion.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=403180][quote="Monte" post=403171][quote="mjmaherjr" post=403154]Heed the Monte hame warnings he was on the money with this one[/quote]


Right now we are the equivalent of a decent mid major team. Same as St Pete's. Of course it's one game and we didn't have Champ. We'll get better, but so will most teams. Think we found some good things tonight: Cole, Posh and Moore (offense) to name 3. Not sure why CMA played Wusu so much. Thought Earl should have been in for last 5 minutes of game. Of newcomers, wasn't impressed with Toro. Very early, but we did about what I expected; pulled out a win against an evenly matched team.[/quote]

lol, Wusu has almost half as many points as all the returning players. He wasn’t the problem. The problem was Earlington, Dunn, Robert’s, Caraher, and the rest of the guys who didn’t step up. Talent gap becoming apparent, and it’s obvious that our classes are getting more talented. Need to keep that up and rebuild.[/quote]

Slow down, remember rutherfords first game? Remember how well the returners were playing at the end of the year?

Everyone at every level has good and bad games. For how excited I am for Moore, people aren’t mentioning he was 3-9 and looked out of control for a good part of the game.
 
[quote="AJ Hidell" post=403229]But I thought the coach had them ALL SUMMER, not letting kids go home and then had double sessions from Labor Day on for 6 weeks? If they are not in shape, then when? And they have been practicing together for 5 months already. How much more practice ? Other teams did not start till Aug/Sept and at times got shut down for Covid.[/quote]

Lol wow.

“If they are not in shape, then when?” was posted after the first game of the season.
 
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