(POST GAME) St. Peter’s, Wed., Nov. 25, 7p, FS2 / 970 AM WNYM

Just be happy to win. Teams lose OOC games every year. No one remembers how much you win by. Posh and Cole were great. Moore had his moments. But if anyone were to be surprised if Dunn, ME, or Williams happen to lead us in scoring tomorrow then they don’t understand how this all works. One game that’s all.

IMO Champs biggest impact may be in settling the teams roles. Seemed to me like our players were playing a little out of position tonight. Champ should be the Versatile defender that allows our guards to play as guards, our forwards as forwards and bigs as bigs. If you want to press and be active on defense then length is important, Williams and Wusu don’t really bring that at the 3.


Some thoughts
-Posh doesn’t look short. And damn he looked good.
-Wusu takes his time
-Toro is finally a big. Not a forward trying to be one. Who knows how good tho.
-Cole and Moore are a step behind in muscle department.
-Would have liked to seen Mcgriff
-Williams doesn’t hurt you. Great D, solid decisions. Confidence is huge w/ him
 
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[quote="Making Plays" post=403276][quote="Logen" post=403274][quote="Making Plays" post=403250][quote="Logen" post=403191][quote="Making Plays" post=403168][quote="Mean Gene" post=403159]That might have been the worst defensive game I’ve ever seen a CMA team play.[/quote]

That's what happens when you don't get much time to practice and have a team full of newcomers, it's going to be a learn as you go season, not only for the Johnnies but for other teams as well. This season due to covid is going to be absolutely crazy and unpredictable. There will be some teams with no practice for 2 weeks after a positive test going into a game. There's already been a few upsets tonight.

This just happened.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1331781117607809026[/quote]

Disagree, St. Peter’s had 10 practices going into the game and lost two top players from last year to transfer. Getting beat consistently off the dribble is not from lack of practice. Defense is desire and starts with taking pride in keeping your man in front of you. Protecting the rim and help rotation should be second nature at this level and we showed neither. I believe it was Mean Gene who pointed out, just a horrible defensive game.[/quote]

The post I was responding to was the guy was saying this was the worst defensively he's ever seen a CMA team play. The reason for that as I posted was because lack of practice time due to covid and 5 of his top 10 players are newcomers.

CMA's 40 minutes of hell defense takes a lot of practice and organization, despite what some people think, it's not just him running guys out there and pressing and something that's learned in a few practices, it takes a lot of time and communication to get those rotations down, even the highest of IQ newcomers take a while to pick it up, that's why you always hear CMA joke when he has a lot of new players that it's going to probably be 10 minutes of hell and 30 minutes of what the hell, because he knows it takes a while for kids to pick it up. I don't care if the other team only had 1 practice together, if guys haven't fully picked up the defense yet, it's not going to look good no matter who the opponent is, a lot of guys were out of position tonight, as they get more experience in the system that will get cleaned up.[/quote]

The breakdowns on defense and the non-existence of help were of the manner I wouldn’t expect to see in a decent pickup game. Sorry but I disagree that lack of practice had anything to do with what I saw tonight.[/quote]

Well you know more than the coach then about his own players, because he literally echoed what I was saying in the post game press conference. Said it's a weird year with practice restrictions and everything due to covid, referenced guys being out due to injury, not having exhibition games to work things out, and it being a different environment without fans, said guys have got to get use to that and said as a coach he has to take all that into consideration, and they will learn from it and get better.

Also, if you think they looked worse than a decent pick-up game, that tells me you didn't watch any other college basketball games today. There were several upsets and there were teams that were suppose to be really good not look good at all today. #15 West Virginia looked horrible in the second half of their game and blew a 12 point lead to South Dakota State and it was a 4 point game with under 2 minutes left. #22 UCLA get blew out by San Diego State, Pitt lost to St. Francis, Kansas State lost to Drake. It's going to be an odd year, the shortened practice schedule is without a doubt affecting teams.[/quote]

I don’t care about OTHER games, their relevance to our game escapes me because I never once discussed the outcome of ours; what I was commenting on was our inability to apply BASIC keep your man in front of you, don’t constantly dive for steals, and help when a teammate is beaten DEFENSE. I saw the game, I know the game, and I know what I saw. If you think our coaches didn’t have time to teach principles a decent middle school team understands, that’s what you think, I disagree. Other games or CMA’s press conference has no bearing on what I saw and my opinion of it. My last word because as many have posted, it was one game, we escaped, and we move on. But if we play that poorly going forward, which I don’t think we will, and depend on Cole to shoot 5 of 6 from 3 consistently, which he won’t; it is going to be a less than enjoyable season.
 
Wow that was bad, but thank goodness was only one game. People need to stop using the lack of practice as an excuse. All teams have had to go through this. They played so horrible tonight defensively it was embarrassing. The more alarming thing is that they are really going to struggle at times trying to score. If we are not scoring off of our defense and off of turnovers there will definitely be long droughts of no scoring with this offense. Thats why it made no sense to me when so may people on this board said "Oh they will be so much better without LJ." LJ is a scorer and a go to guy. We do not have that right now. I think they probably have the worst shooting backcourt in the big east. Dunn had a bunch of open looks from 3 and they weren't even close.

Hope they bounce back in a good way today and make us forget about our complaints already.
 
The announcer on the last play was saying how good Posh played defense making the St Pete's guy hurry his shot. Looked like the ball handler beat Posh at the top of the key and got to the rim without anybody jumping out to contend the penetration. Missed the "bunny" and the follow up tip. Loved the foul shooting. It say 1 & 0 going into today. All you can ask for.
 
[quote="Zeeman" post=403283]The announcer on the last play was saying how good Posh played defense making the St Pete's guy hurry his shot. Looked like the ball handler beat Posh at the top of the key and got to the rim without anybody jumping out to contend the penetration. Missed the "bunny" and the follow up tip. Loved the foul shooting. It say 1 & 0 going into today. All you can ask for.[/quote]

Alexander played great for a first game, period. But, IMO, he consistently played high school defensive angles looking to set up his man for steals. First college game and perfectly understandable; there is no doubt in my mind he will realize that just doesn’t work at this level. His job on the last possession was to play straight up and make the ball handler turn, wasting precious seconds. He played the angle he is accustomed to and got beat pretty easily. For the record, he overall played great, hard with heart and a fearlessness you can’t teach. He is pretty obviously going to be a terrific player for us. We have a point guard.
 
I will add one other thing. St. Peter’s was actually a good team, they could do a lot of things, well coached and made shots. We barely won, and have work to do, but they were no slouch. Credit to them because they were honestly a solid team and it was a better than good first test.
 
[quote="Logen" post=403281][quote="Making Plays" post=403276][quote="Logen" post=403274][quote="Making Plays" post=403250][quote="Logen" post=403191][quote="Making Plays" post=403168][quote="Mean Gene" post=403159]That might have been the worst defensive game I’ve ever seen a CMA team play.[/quote]

That's what happens when you don't get much time to practice and have a team full of newcomers, it's going to be a learn as you go season, not only for the Johnnies but for other teams as well. This season due to covid is going to be absolutely crazy and unpredictable. There will be some teams with no practice for 2 weeks after a positive test going into a game. There's already been a few upsets tonight.

This just happened.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1331781117607809026[/quote]

Disagree, St. Peter’s had 10 practices going into the game and lost two top players from last year to transfer. Getting beat consistently off the dribble is not from lack of practice. Defense is desire and starts with taking pride in keeping your man in front of you. Protecting the rim and help rotation should be second nature at this level and we showed neither. I believe it was Mean Gene who pointed out, just a horrible defensive game.[/quote]

The post I was responding to was the guy was saying this was the worst defensively he's ever seen a CMA team play. The reason for that as I posted was because lack of practice time due to covid and 5 of his top 10 players are newcomers.

CMA's 40 minutes of hell defense takes a lot of practice and organization, despite what some people think, it's not just him running guys out there and pressing and something that's learned in a few practices, it takes a lot of time and communication to get those rotations down, even the highest of IQ newcomers take a while to pick it up, that's why you always hear CMA joke when he has a lot of new players that it's going to probably be 10 minutes of hell and 30 minutes of what the hell, because he knows it takes a while for kids to pick it up. I don't care if the other team only had 1 practice together, if guys haven't fully picked up the defense yet, it's not going to look good no matter who the opponent is, a lot of guys were out of position tonight, as they get more experience in the system that will get cleaned up.[/quote]

The breakdowns on defense and the non-existence of help were of the manner I wouldn’t expect to see in a decent pickup game. Sorry but I disagree that lack of practice had anything to do with what I saw tonight.[/quote]

Well you know more than the coach then about his own players, because he literally echoed what I was saying in the post game press conference. Said it's a weird year with practice restrictions and everything due to covid, referenced guys being out due to injury, not having exhibition games to work things out, and it being a different environment without fans, said guys have got to get use to that and said as a coach he has to take all that into consideration, and they will learn from it and get better.

Also, if you think they looked worse than a decent pick-up game, that tells me you didn't watch any other college basketball games today. There were several upsets and there were teams that were suppose to be really good not look good at all today. #15 West Virginia looked horrible in the second half of their game and blew a 12 point lead to South Dakota State and it was a 4 point game with under 2 minutes left. #22 UCLA get blew out by San Diego State, Pitt lost to St. Francis, Kansas State lost to Drake. It's going to be an odd year, the shortened practice schedule is without a doubt affecting teams.[/quote]

I don’t care about OTHER games, their relevance to our game escapes me because I never once discussed the outcome of ours; what I was commenting on was our inability to apply BASIC keep your man in front of you, don’t constantly dive for steals, and help when a teammate is beaten DEFENSE. I saw the game, I know the game, and I know what I saw. If you think our coaches didn’t have time to teach principles a decent middle school team understands, that’s what you think, I disagree. Other games or CMA’s press conference has no bearing on what I saw and my opinion of it. My last word because as many have posted, it was one game, we escaped, and we move on. But if we play that poorly going forward, which I don’t think we will, and depend on Cole to shoot 5 of 6 from 3 consistently, which he won’t; it is going to be a less than enjoyable season.[/quote]

So basically, you don't care what the coach says, how other teams looked on opening night, and don't care about the circumstances going on around the country, in your opinion that's the worst pick up game, middle school basketball you've ever seen and nothing can change your mind on that. Gotcha.... Happy Thanksgiving!
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=403277]Holy shit. It was their first game playing together as a whole. There were no exhibition games to get practice as a full rotation. Some guys looked rusty and maybe didn't play as hard or smart as they could have. At the end of the day we won a game that most other years we would've lost. That 3 pointer by Cole was clutch af! Regroup and get back at it this afternoon. It's gonna take a few games to start clicking. To win a game without arguably our best returning player and our other returners taking the night off says a lot about our new guys in my opinion.[/quote]

Rusty is right; 17 turnovers, many of which were unforced. That, I am sure will change
 
On a positive note, as I predicted, Dunn's 3 pt shooting % has already improved
 
I'm not surprised St. Pete's came to play. They almost beat us last year so they weren't walking in intimidated and Holloway is doing good things over there. That being said our execution in almost every facet was off. We were having problems making entry passes or really even any passes. Guys were a little out of control, which is to be expected from the newcomers but our returners should have settled us down and they didn't.

We have a lot to clean up on defense as well. I thought we would be further along on that side and we were just flat out bad defensively.

It's definitely going to take time for this team to gel, there are some good pieces but right now we don't look as cohesive as last year.

Also I may be off but Posh may be our best pure PG since Barkley. He is a true pass first PG looking to make others better. Also you can tell he's a winner and leader already. Very excited about his future.
 
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First Impression Takeaways:
-Posh is going to be a stud. Winning player.
-Cole is the exact player we've wanted and needed here for a long time. Wish we had a couple more of him. Court spacing will be an issue without him on the court. Jack Williams and I had the same thought on mirroring Klay Thompson usage. Curls, screens, and spot ups will be his strength. Needs to limit putting the ball on the floor unless the handle tightens up.
-Moore may struggle in Big East play. Love the motor. Wants to mix it up on the boards. Needs to realize his own limitations. Can't over dribble. Needs to slow the game down still
-Toro was a mixed bag, but he's going to be a useful player. Needs to be on the floor with Cole for in/out passing and spacing
-The Duke will be fine. He'll contribute
-Dunn is the same guy. He needs to be instant offense off the bench. Ride him when he's a hot hand. Pull him when he's struggling
-Wusu will be a nice 4 yr player. Already has 3 and D value. Needs to not overhandle. Worst case is that he's a better verson of Trimble.
-G Will will be fine. Even if he doesn't take the leap, he's a very useful player.
-McGriff: wish we got to see him yesterday. Would like a secondary option as a primary ball handler. Otherwise we're going to rely very heavily on Post
-Champ: Will be really nice to have him back, but we have to temper expectations. He's a winning player, but he might not be the star/stud/primary option that many on this board are annointing him as
-Caraher: Very lazy passing. Not going to get much burn unless he can do the little things right. Can't be making unforced errors.

Optimal Starting Lineup:
Posh
G Will
Cole
Champ
Toro
Best combo of skill and court spacing

2nd unit:
Dunn
Earlington
Roberts
Moore
Wusu
Really interesting energy/instant offense unit
 
As far as Posh and the angles and couple of the things he does in games like Logen mentioned and I think Moose mentioned on the game thread I agree. I'm not worried. He will grow and learn from mistakes. Like any job we all learn as we go. That kid is going to be so fun to watch. It's been a long time since I've felt this good about a pure PG here ( I'm not including Pond because I didnt consider him a pure pg )
 
I've never known why so many are enamored with Dunn. He is terrible. Has so many weaknesses I don't care to take the time to elaborate. Team fails when he is on the floor.

As for Williams, I agree with those who would like to see him be more aggressive on offense. But coach is wise enough to keep him on the floor at crunch time because he understands the game. He is the one who made the selfless pass to Cole which led to the game winning 3.

Agree with those who said our defense stunk, but I believe it will improve as season progresses. I trust coach with this

Posh is legit.

Cole can really shoot it, and improved as the game went on relative to defense and rebounding. Not sure about his handle. Hope he can get that shot off against better competition

Earlington had a tough game, but he will be fine.

Wusu impressed as did Moore. Both will be positive additions.

Toro as I expected. Not sure why so many thought he would be Dennis Rodman like.

It will be a long year for Roberts and Caraher.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=403296]As far as Posh and the angles and couple of the things he does in games like Logen mentioned and I think Moose mentioned on the game thread I agree. I'm not worried. He will grow and learn from mistakes. Like any job we all learn as we go. That kid is going to be so fun to watch. It's been a long time since I've felt this good about a pure PG here ( I'm not including Pond because I didnt consider him a pure pg )[/quote]

Hatten, Ponds, Hardy, Phil G, Rysheed- Never really considered any of them as PG's although they were dominant ball handlers.

Posh reminds me more of Barkley, Boothe and Geno type. He's heady and is always looking to make the right play. He's got all the physical attributes to be great.
 
[quote="Making Plays" post=403291][quote="Logen" post=403281][quote="Making Plays" post=403276][quote="Logen" post=403274][quote="Making Plays" post=403250][quote="Logen" post=403191][quote="Making Plays" post=403168][quote="Mean Gene" post=403159]That might have been the worst defensive game I’ve ever seen a CMA team play.[/quote]

That's what happens when you don't get much time to practice and have a team full of newcomers, it's going to be a learn as you go season, not only for the Johnnies but for other teams as well. This season due to covid is going to be absolutely crazy and unpredictable. There will be some teams with no practice for 2 weeks after a positive test going into a game. There's already been a few upsets tonight.

This just happened.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1331781117607809026[/quote]

Disagree, St. Peter’s had 10 practices going into the game and lost two top players from last year to transfer. Getting beat consistently off the dribble is not from lack of practice. Defense is desire and starts with taking pride in keeping your man in front of you. Protecting the rim and help rotation should be second nature at this level and we showed neither. I believe it was Mean Gene who pointed out, just a horrible defensive game.[/quote]

The post I was responding to was the guy was saying this was the worst defensively he's ever seen a CMA team play. The reason for that as I posted was because lack of practice time due to covid and 5 of his top 10 players are newcomers.

CMA's 40 minutes of hell defense takes a lot of practice and organization, despite what some people think, it's not just him running guys out there and pressing and something that's learned in a few practices, it takes a lot of time and communication to get those rotations down, even the highest of IQ newcomers take a while to pick it up, that's why you always hear CMA joke when he has a lot of new players that it's going to probably be 10 minutes of hell and 30 minutes of what the hell, because he knows it takes a while for kids to pick it up. I don't care if the other team only had 1 practice together, if guys haven't fully picked up the defense yet, it's not going to look good no matter who the opponent is, a lot of guys were out of position tonight, as they get more experience in the system that will get cleaned up.[/quote]

The breakdowns on defense and the non-existence of help were of the manner I wouldn’t expect to see in a decent pickup game. Sorry but I disagree that lack of practice had anything to do with what I saw tonight.[/quote]

Well you know more than the coach then about his own players, because he literally echoed what I was saying in the post game press conference. Said it's a weird year with practice restrictions and everything due to covid, referenced guys being out due to injury, not having exhibition games to work things out, and it being a different environment without fans, said guys have got to get use to that and said as a coach he has to take all that into consideration, and they will learn from it and get better.

Also, if you think they looked worse than a decent pick-up game, that tells me you didn't watch any other college basketball games today. There were several upsets and there were teams that were suppose to be really good not look good at all today. #15 West Virginia looked horrible in the second half of their game and blew a 12 point lead to South Dakota State and it was a 4 point game with under 2 minutes left. #22 UCLA get blew out by San Diego State, Pitt lost to St. Francis, Kansas State lost to Drake. It's going to be an odd year, the shortened practice schedule is without a doubt affecting teams.[/quote]

I don’t care about OTHER games, their relevance to our game escapes me because I never once discussed the outcome of ours; what I was commenting on was our inability to apply BASIC keep your man in front of you, don’t constantly dive for steals, and help when a teammate is beaten DEFENSE. I saw the game, I know the game, and I know what I saw. If you think our coaches didn’t have time to teach principles a decent middle school team understands, that’s what you think, I disagree. Other games or CMA’s press conference has no bearing on what I saw and my opinion of it. My last word because as many have posted, it was one game, we escaped, and we move on. But if we play that poorly going forward, which I don’t think we will, and depend on Cole to shoot 5 of 6 from 3 consistently, which he won’t; it is going to be a less than enjoyable season.[/quote]

So basically, you don't care what the coach says, how other teams looked on opening night, and don't care about the circumstances going on around the country, in your opinion that's the worst pick up game, middle school basketball you've ever seen and nothing can change your mind on that. Gotcha.... Happy Thanksgiving![/quote]

No, I don’t care about coach speak one bit, nor other games when talking about OUR game. You see, I am perfectly content in making up my own mind, you know, using my ability to think and deciding for myself. Not sure why anyone would consider doing it any other way but I guess some people need to be told what to think or use completely irrelevant data to fit their spin on things; I’m not one of the them.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=403215]Greg is a great kid and athlete, but he needs to show the “breakout season” fans talk about in his third year. Time to step up and distinguish himself as a key, reliable main cog v a rotational guy with occasional flashes. He seems to have skill to do that, but to me jury is still out.[/quote]

Totally agree. Each year posters talk about him like he is going to be a great player. I have not seen it. I believe he is overrated and should see less playing time until he shows he deserves more.
 
I was hoping for a lot more from Dunn this season. Not a good game at all. I'm sure he'll have bright spots as season unfolds, but tempering my expectations overall.
 
[quote="Matty Hoops" post=403295]First Impression Takeaways:
-Posh is going to be a stud. Winning player.
-Cole is the exact player we've wanted and needed here for a long time. Wish we had a couple more of him. Court spacing will be an issue without him on the court. Jack Williams and I had the same thought on mirroring Klay Thompson usage. Curls, screens, and spot ups will be his strength. Needs to limit putting the ball on the floor unless the handle tightens up.
-Moore may struggle in Big East play. Love the motor. Wants to mix it up on the boards. Needs to realize his own limitations. Can't over dribble. Needs to slow the game down still
-Toro was a mixed bag, but he's going to be a useful player. Needs to be on the floor with Cole for in/out passing and spacing
-The Duke will be fine. He'll contribute
-Dunn is the same guy. He needs to be instant offense off the bench. Ride him when he's a hot hand. Pull him when he's struggling
-Wusu will be a nice 4 yr player. Already has 3 and D value. Needs to not overhandle. Worst case is that he's a better verson of Trimble.
-G Will will be fine. Even if he doesn't take the leap, he's a very useful player.
-McGriff: wish we got to see him yesterday. Would like a secondary option as a primary ball handler. Otherwise we're going to rely very heavily on Post
-Champ: Will be really nice to have him back, but we have to temper expectations. He's a winning player, but he might not be the star/stud/primary option that many on this board are annointing him as
-Caraher: Very lazy passing. Not going to get much burn unless he can do the little things right. Can't be making unforced errors.

Optimal Starting Lineup:
Posh
G Will
Cole
Champ
Toro
Best combo of skill and court spacing

2nd unit:
Dunn
Earlington
Roberts
Moore
Wusu
Really interesting energy/instant offense unit[/quote]

Agree with your lineup(for now) except for Toro. The guy was essentially the back up center on a terrible mid major team. Granted it was only one game, but nothing he showed last night gave any indicator that he's going to contribute in any significant way, especially in Big East play. I realize that we have limited options, but I'd still rather see Moore start and get the bulk of the minutes. He'll need to improve his shot selection, but I'm certain that will come.
 
Cole had a nice shooting game. Reading the thread, some have compared him to Dwight Hardy, others to Avery Patterson. I fear the latter comparison is more apt. I was not impressed with his athleticism, ball handling or defense. I fear he mat be a one trick pony. Hopefully he can continue to perform his trick well against good competition. We shall see.
 
[quote="Ron" post=403302][quote="Paultzman" post=403215]Greg is a great kid and athlete, but he needs to show the “breakout season” fans talk about in his third year. Time to step up and distinguish himself as a key, reliable main cog v a rotational guy with occasional flashes. He seems to have skill to do that, but to me jury is still out.[/quote]

Totally agree. Each year posters talk about him like he is going to be a great player. I have not seen it. I believe he is overrated and should see less playing time until he shows he deserves more.[/quote]

Ron, I think he has talent. Problem is, he seems far too passive. Letting the game “come to him” is one thing. Getting lost on the court and not being assertive is the issue.
 
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