(POST-GAME) @Seton Hall (Pru Ctr), Sat. Dec. 29, 8:30p, FSN / 570AM

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[quote="MJDinkins" post=310583][quote="we are sju" post=310567]I have said this since he started doing it but Ponds taking a half off and not shooting is not right. He just needs to balance it out better.[/quote]

IMO, it doesn't quite look intuitive. It kinda seems somewhat forced. I know he's a good passer and all, but this style of ball where he's barely looking at the basket and attempting to get his cohorts involved just doesn't seem organic.

He needs to be himself.[/quote]

Not saying you guys are wrong and it’s obvious sometimes he’s making a point to pass and to shoot, but didn’t we play fantastic in the first half when he was doing just that?
 
I noticed that Coach and Willard were having a discussion (apparently amicable) while shaking hands after the game. Any thoughts on what was said? Discussing the last 20 minutes (real time, not hoops time) perhaps?
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=310610][quote="MJDinkins" post=310583][quote="we are sju" post=310567]I have said this since he started doing it but Ponds taking a half off and not shooting is not right. He just needs to balance it out better.[/quote]

IMO, it doesn't quite look intuitive. It kinda seems somewhat forced. I know he's a good passer and all, but this style of ball where he's barely looking at the basket and attempting to get his cohorts involved just doesn't seem organic.

He needs to be himself.[/quote]

Not saying you guys are wrong and it’s obvious sometimes he’s making a point to pass and to shoot, but didn’t we play fantastic in the first half when he was doing just that?[/quote]

We played really good basketball for 34 minutes!!! Offense and defense were solid. Last 6 minutes, other then the Clark set and the Heron set were terrible offensive structures. Our Coaching did not execute. It is precisely at this time they need to take control and put the kids in position to succeed. This game is entirely on coaching. Hopefully, the staff will learn form this.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=310610][quote="MJDinkins" post=310583][quote="we are sju" post=310567]I have said this since he started doing it but Ponds taking a half off and not shooting is not right. He just needs to balance it out better.[/quote]

IMO, it doesn't quite look intuitive. It kinda seems somewhat forced. I know he's a good passer and all, but this style of ball where he's barely looking at the basket and attempting to get his cohorts involved just doesn't seem organic.

He needs to be himself.[/quote]

Not saying you guys are wrong and it’s obvious sometimes he’s making a point to pass and to shoot, but didn’t we play fantastic in the first half when he was doing just that?[/quote]
Maybe it’s a bit of both. Shamorie played great team ball, but at the end of the half it looked like he forced a few shots to “get on the board”. From a shooting perspective, he never seemed in rhythm. I hope he continues to distribute in the future, but makes it a point to call Jeter’s number a few times early in the game.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=310603][quote="Adam" post=310601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]
I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.[/quote]


I had to take 2 ambien last night. One at 1:30 and then I woke up pissed as hell and took another at 4:30

And sorry to the mods for my cursing but this game warrants F bombs :)[/quote]

It wasn't the ambien It was what happened before the ambien.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=310542]And as for the back and forth going on between posters who blame the team and coaching for making it close and the posters blaming the ref, as Amase said, it’s simply BOTH.

I was at the game last night and I walked out furious at the team because we played horrible ball down the stretch. I was sitting across from the St. John’s bench, so I couldn’t see the LJ play at all. Walking out, I was furious at the players for blowing the lead and playing too much 1 on 1.

But after getting home and seeing the replays of the play, it is perfectly fair for everyone to be angry at the officiating. That is inexcusable.

Like I said last night, it’s kind of karma for the VCU ending I suppose, but that doesn’t make it suck any less[/quote]

I agree with you and Mase but it is not about “blame” from my perspective. Yes, the call was absolutely horrible and wrong and sucked but like it or not, bad calls are part of the game. That one was magnified of course because of the time and score but go through any game tape and there are several calls in almost every one that are blatantly bad or wrong. But from a coaches or players perspective to think that cost you the game is nonsense, we had no one to blame but ourselves because we put ourselves in a position where a bad call could beat us. We also had a chance for a stop and played terrible D to give up that shot. So, just my opinion, but as a fan, I am beyond pissed at the refs AND team. As a player or coach, I would be beyond pissed at myself, not the refs.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=310583][quote="we are sju" post=310567]I have said this since he started doing it but Ponds taking a half off and not shooting is not right. He just needs to balance it out better.[/quote]

IMO, it doesn't quite look intuitive. It kinda seems somewhat forced. I know he's a good passer and all, but this style of ball where he's barely looking at the basket and attempting to get his cohorts involved just doesn't seem organic.

He needs to be himself.[/quote]

Great point, I agree 100%, he is destroying his own rythym with this change in approach.
 
[quote="Section3" post=310515][quote="JohnnyFan" post=310486][quote="Jaden Daly" post=310483]http://dalydoseofhoops.blogspot.com/2018/12/st-johns-14-point-lead-disappears-as.html[/quote]

Stu Jackson's statement that it was a "timing issue" is insulting. That's just false.[/quote]
Total BS. If whistle was blown because the clock hadn’t started, play should have resumed with 3.9 from the same exact spot and withe same exact lineup. Stu should get his foot out of his mouth before he tries to speak.[/quote]

It started, went from 3.9, to 3.5 before looking at it, maybe it started late, but it definitely started, then they put it to 3.1.
Why should sju get penalized for their f up?
If anything go to the jump ball.
 
[quote="Logen" post=310624][quote="Jack Williams" post=310542]And as for the back and forth going on between posters who blame the team and coaching for making it close and the posters blaming the ref, as Amase said, it’s simply BOTH.

I was at the game last night and I walked out furious at the team because we played horrible ball down the stretch. I was sitting across from the St. John’s bench, so I couldn’t see the LJ play at all. Walking out, I was furious at the players for blowing the lead and playing too much 1 on 1.

But after getting home and seeing the replays of the play, it is perfectly fair for everyone to be angry at the officiating. That is inexcusable.

Like I said last night, it’s kind of karma for the VCU ending I suppose, but that doesn’t make it suck any less[/quote]

I agree with you and Mase but it is not about “blame” from my perspective. Yes, the call was absolutely horrible and wrong and sucked but like it or not, bad calls are part of the game. That one was magnified of course because of the time and score but go through any game tape and there are several calls in almost every one that are blatantly bad or wrong. But from a coaches or players perspective to think that cost you the game is nonsense, we had no one to blame but ourselves because we put ourselves in a position where a bad call could beat us. We also had a chance for a stop and played terrible D to give up that shot. So, just my opinion, but as a fan, I am beyond pissed at the refs AND team. As a player or coach, I would be beyond pissed at myself, not the refs.[/quote]

I agree with the philosophy, but this was not a routine bad call.

Plus, the blatant lying about what happened is untenable.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=310585][quote="Logen" post=310556][quote="oldfan61" post=310548]Calls like we saw have been part of basketball since it's founding. You sucked it up and moved on;that's sportsmanship. However, since the availability of filmed replay, all obvious and clear mistakes like this one have been overturned.. The league owes the fans an explanation of why our lying eyes, and those of the HOF announcer, cannot be trusted in this one case. What is the BE's interpretation of the play and re-play we all saw? Was what we and the announcers were shown not made available to the refs? What was the leagues basis for his final call? The league owes me an explanation[/quote]

The out of bounds play cannot be reviewed and reversed because there needs to be two players involved for the review to be permissible. Why they made that a stipulation, no clue. Don’t worry about getting it right, don’t worry about the integrity of the game, just worry about the PR. So just make up some bullshit about the clock and move on. As a fan, it sucks big time: hopefully the coaches and players are looking in their respective mirrors and realizing it was their fault entirely it came to that.[/quote]

You're correct about replay, but this was an inadvertent whistle. The rule book has a provision for this specifically instructing officials to use the possession arrow if no team has control of the ball when the whistle is blown. They absolutely could have and should have award us the ball.[/quote]

I agree completely that is what the refs should have ruled, it was the only fair, common sense thing to do. I don’t agree the whistle was inadvertent but that is really just hair splitting semantical BS on my part.
 
The blatant ass covering by Stu Jackson has become the norm in all of sports.
The NFL is the master at it. The first action is to deny what you think you saw. What everyone knows they saw. Try to create another version of events. After that doesn't happen. Then wait it out. Next game comes and most forget. At some point they'll walk it back as they know they sound ridiculous. By then no one will care. Problem is the the piss poor officiating is never addressed.
 
put this game in rearview mirror. not. I still often think about that technical in the duke game.
this game will be talked about 28000 pages from now.
I set a personal record for hitting the thank you button in this 28 plus page thread.
I have a question. I asked both alexa and cortana but neither was of much help.
my question - how many minutes of good play does a team have to have, in order to deserve a win? is it 40? 38? 32?
short of tar/feathers, the 3 refs should be suspended for a week or at least make them ref a week of marathon oil games.
as imus is fond of saying - its not the crime, its the coverup. so include all the liars, making them sit through marathon oil games while paying full price for the ticket.
 
[quote="sjc88" post=310630]The blatant ass covering by Stu Jackson has become the norm in all of sports.
The NFL is the master at it. The first action is to deny what you think you saw. What everyone knows they saw. Try to create another version of events. After that doesn't happen. Then wait it out. Next game comes and most forget. At some point they'll walk it back as they know they sound ridiculous. By then no one will care. Problem is the the piss poor officiating is never addressed.[/quote]

Here's Stu Jackson's email

sjackson@bigeast.com
 
Logen said it best: "we put ourselves in a position where a bad call could beat us."
Looking at the Stat sheet, Ponds had a woeful shooting night, Heron and Clark have to play smarter, Simon and Figgy had solid games; wish Williams and Dixon would play more and Trimble less, but that's sour grapes.
And as Jack Williams says, maybe the game was a karma pay-back for the VCU 'victory'.
Just got to play better and be more consistent.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=310541]Morning after and I still feel like that was the worst St. John’s loss in years. This one hurts in so many ways.

We blew it and then the refs did too. It’s kind of an unexplainable feeling. When your team blows a game and you know you kinda deserve to lose, but then they actually made a play to get the win despite that, but then the refs took that from us anyway.

I wish I could just hibernate until the Marquette game because I feel like I won’t feel better until we get a win[/quote]

Guess what Jack, now that Marquette becomes a must win. Don't give me that "oh it's only the 2nd game of 18 in the B.E., and oh there's plenty of games to go.
0-2 means 1-3 if not 0-4.
Then it's take us 10 games just to get to 500.

Gotta go 2-2 at the very least.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=310603][quote="Adam" post=310601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]
I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.[/quote]


I had to take 2 ambien last night. One at 1:30 and then I woke up pissed as hell and took another at 4:30

And sorry to the mods for my cursing but this game warrants F bombs :)[/quote]

We are all right there with you Mr. Maher. This was a blatant blown call and a lie to cover it up. Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson are not worth shit as the heads of this league if they can’t come clean and also discipline these refs in some way.
 
[quote="section10" post=310633]put this game in rearview mirror. not. I still often think about that technical in the duke game.
this game will be talked about 28000 pages from now.
I set a personal record for hitting the thank you button in this 28 plus page thread.
I have a question. I asked both alexa and cortana but neither was of much help.
my question - how many minutes of good play does a team have to have, in order to deserve a win? is it 40? 38? 32?
short of tar/feathers, the 3 refs should be suspended for a week or at least make them ref a week of marathon oil games.
as imus is fond of saying - its not the crime, its the coverup. so include all the liars, making them sit through marathon oil games while paying full price for the ticket.[/quote]

I think the referees should be assigned the Marquette game, all three of them, and we go from there.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=310642][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310603][quote="Adam" post=310601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]
I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.[/quote]


I had to take 2 ambien last night. One at 1:30 and then I woke up pissed as hell and took another at 4:30

And sorry to the mods for my cursing but this game warrants F bombs :)[/quote]

We are all right there with you Mr. Maher. This was a blatant blown call and a lie to cover it up. Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson are not worth shit as the heads of this league if they can’t come clean and also discipline these refs in some way.[/quote]

vackerman@bigeast.com

sjackson@bigeast.com
 
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