(POST-GAME) @Seton Hall (Pru Ctr), Sat. Dec. 29, 8:30p, FSN / 570AM

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a couple of thoughts...

1. we played very well for 30-34 minutes and controlled a team that his difficult to beat in their building.
2. we got tired and sloppy at the end and reverted to hero ball. That lapse placed the game in question at the end.
We need to utilize Keita and Greg Williams for at least 10-15 min per night. Starters playing 35+ minutes in conference is going to result in bad decisions and bad outcomes. I also thought that something not talked about is that Greg Williams played excellent defense last night.
3. we made enough plays to win the game. I would love to have won end to end, but that didn't happen...even before the final 3.9 seconds. How many times have you heard, " all we had to do is make one play to win the game". Well, as bad as the last few minutes were for us, we did do exactly that. We made the "one more play" to win the game.
4. I am not upset at the inadvertent whistle/ bad whistle...whatever you want to call it. Refs are human. They make mistakes. What upsets me is what happened after that. If you aren't going to find a way to get it right, then why go to the monitor at all? After all, the sole purpose of the video replay is to get the call right.
5. Maybe...most important...Monte is one of the good guys. Regardless of what you believe, we are all fans of SJU. Let's remember that. Save the venum for UConn, SU and Georgetown fans...and maybe a bad ref or two.
 
[quote="weathermannyc" post=310745]a couple of thoughts...

1. we played very well for 30-34 minutes and controlled a team that his difficult to beat in their building.
2. we got tired and sloppy at the end and reverted to hero ball. That lapse placed the game in question at the end.
We need to utilize Keita and Greg Williams for at least 10-15 min per night. Starters playing 35+ minutes in conference is going to result in bad decisions and bad outcomes. I also thought that something not talked about is that Greg Williams played excellent defense last night.
3. we made enough plays to win the game. I would love to have won end to end, but that didn't happen...even before the final 3.9 seconds. How many times have you heard, " all we had to do is make one play to win the game". Well, as bad as the last few minutes were for us, we did do exactly that. We made the "one more play" to win the game.
4. I am not upset at the inadvertent whistle/ bad whistle...whatever you want to call it. Refs are human. They make mistakes. What upsets me is what happened after that. If you aren't going to find a way to get it right, then why go to the monitor at all? After all, the sole purpose of the video replay is to get the call right.
5. Maybe...most important...Monte is one of the good guys. Regardless of what you believe, we are all fans of SJU. Let's remember that. Save the venum for UConn, SU and Georgetown fans...and maybe a bad ref or two.[/quote]

Good post!
 
[quote="otis" post=310737]A question for those that bet of college basketball games, or otherwise follow point spreads ..... did the bad call change what bettors won from the point spread ?

Thanks[/quote]


No SJU was getting three
 
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The Honorable weathermannyc summarized my thoughts when he stated above:

“Refs are human. They make mistakes. What upsets me is what happened after that. If you aren't going to find a way to get it right, then why go to the monitor at all? After all, the sole purpose of the video replay is to get the call right.”
 
[quote="OLV72" post=310741][quote="Eric Williamson" post=310739][quote="Mean Gene" post=310663][quote="41ndone" post=310644][quote="Mean Gene" post=310642][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310603][quote="Adam" post=310601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]
I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.[/quote]


I had to take 2 ambien last night. One at 1:30 and then I woke up pissed as hell and took another at 4:30

And sorry to the mods for my cursing but this game warrants F bombs :)[/quote]

We are all right there with you Mr. Maher. This was a blatant blown call and a lie to cover it up. Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson are not worth shit as the heads of this league if they can’t come clean and also discipline these refs in some way.[/quote]

vackerman@bigeast.com

sjackson@bigeast.com[/quote]

Just sent this to Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson

Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson

I am writing to you in order to voice my extreme displeasure with the officiating at the end of last nights St. John’s vs Seton Hall game. It is not only that the blatant missed call cost St. John’s the game, but the lie and misrepresentation of the facts by both the referees, Mr. Jackson and yourself is completely and utterly despicable.

watching the play at the end could see that LJ Figueroa did not step out of bounds and executed a clean steal which was directed inbounds right to Mustapha Heron. The referee inadvertently blew the play dead in anticipation of Figueroa going out of bounds which never happened. In fact, he blew the whistle before the play was even completed due to his anticipation of the expected outcome. Then the lie and cover up began.

The explanation was that the clock never started which was false. Even if it didn’t start (hypothetically) , if a whistle is blown inadvertently and neither team possesses the ball , it should be then ruled a jump ball which should have gone to St. John’s as a result of the possession arrow. But, no, the referees not only lie about the clock not starting, they give the ball to Seton Hall. The clock went from 3.9 seconds to 3.5 seconds before the referee prematurely blew the whistle and then after the review they only put 3.1 seconds on the clock which screws St. John’s even more because after Seton Hall scored there was not enough time left for St. John’s to have a chance at a quality shot.

Then, as if that is not bad enough, after Seton Hall inbounds the Ball, Mamukelashvili blatantly walks with the ball and nothing is called and he passes the ball off for the winning shot. The utter incompetence of the referees stole this game from St. John’s last night and the response from the Big East office which I assume came yourself Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson was completely inadequate. Why was the whistle blown to begin with when Figueroa never steps out of bounds? Why were we told the clock never started when that was false? Why was time taken off the clock to begin play again? Why wasn’t St. John’s awarded to the ball due to the fact that Figueroa never stepped out of bounds or because after an inadvertent whistle where neither team possesses the ball it should have been awarded to St. John’s ? I and every other St. John’s fan needs these questions answered along with why traveling wasn’t called on Mamukleshvili.

This was arguably the most important game for the St. John’s Basketball Program in a very long time and to have it stolen from them the way it was is unacceptable. The Big East in my opinion needs St. John’s to be very good on a consistent basis and needs New York City engaged in order to truly compete with the power football conferences in basketball. I This game would have put the St. John’s program on a path towards achieving that goal and to have it ripped away from them in such fashion is a travesty. Also, for your office to put forth such a lame explanation of the aforementioned events at the end of the game is disgusting and does a huge disservice to both the St. John’s Basketball Program and the Big East itself. These referees should be disciplined in some fashion. To review the play for ten minutes and not get it right is complete incompetence.

This game, when all is said and done, could very well cost the St. John’s Basketball Program an NCAA Tournament Bid. If that were to happen, if the NCAA Selection Committee, in the end, decides that St. John’s just falls short of a bid, that they just did not quite do enough, then last nights referees along with you Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson must absorb part of the blame for not righting the wrong that has occurred here. If you want to be seen as big time conference along with the power football conferences then you have to act like one. What occurred last night was reminiscent of something that would occur in a CYO game. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so devastating to the St. John’s Basketball Program and their fan base.[/quote]

Really? It's a basketball game....get over it! I agree that we got screwed, but at the end of the day, its a game. Those refs are human, just like everyone else, and mistakes are going to happen, even ones that are blatantly obvious. Win or lose this game, your life should not have been that much different. How would you like it if the day after you made a mistake at work, you were bombarded by emails with opinions from people that have absolutely nothing to do with your job?[/quote]

Mistakes are human and acceptable. Covering up errors is human and unacceptable. Most of us are fired if we cover up an error with an untruth. The issue here is not the inadvertent whistle. It is the mishandling at the monitor and what is perceived to be a cover up explanation and avoidance of admitting that the whistle was in anticipation of Fig landing out of bounds with the ball.

If the league leaves this with their current explanation they will have more trouble on their hands as unresolved problems don't age well. They fester and get worse over time. The officiating in the league has been a problem for a long time. I don't think the league will walk away from this and remain silent. They're smart people. I am hoping for changes in the way officials work too many games.[/quote]

I get your point but the problem has nothing to do with refs working too many games; I agree that is very real but completely unrelated to this. I think the ref made a human mistake on the court but the abject dishonesty starting with the review on the court and then the BE office is astounding. If the people officiating the game and overseeing the league have NO desire to be honest, then what do you have? It may be overly dramatic, but why invest my time, and sometimes money, when an honest outcome to a sporting event is of no concern to the powers that be? I usually just eventually shrug off things like this because I have no doubt Ackerman, Jackson, and that ilk care about money and money only, they don’t gave a rats ass about athletes, etc. but for me, this is not going away. The frustrating thing is that in reality, nothing can be done except to accept it or walk away. I have turned my back on the NFL for various reasons and the NBA because for me it has too much of a TV wrestling aspect due to the “superstar” officiating. I guess I have a decision to make concerning CBB. The team needs to understand how they let this happen but as a fan, the dishonesty by the league and the disrespect they show with their bullshit is tough for me to swallow. We all have to deal with dishonesty in real life, sports is supposed to be an escape from that, not a reminder.
 
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QQ: Is there a schedule (online maybe) of which refs are scheduled to work which games? In other words, is the officiating crew from this past weekend scheduled to work an upcoming SJU game? Especially a game at MSG or CA?
 
Yes , it's only a game . But for some of us, who had season tickets in the 70's and the 80's , go to the garden when able, t v when available, if not radio if available , and all else fails listen to WINs for the final score. TO us , like Lombardi said ,"winning is everything". We are happy or sad the next day and when we lose a game we were robbed from winning , we think about it for along time. By the way , we live in N.C.now, and we thank GOD that this our only problem now
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=310744][quote="JohnnyFan" post=310742][quote="Eric Williamson" post=310739][quote="Mean Gene" post=310663][quote="41ndone" post=310644][quote="Mean Gene" post=310642][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310603][quote="Adam" post=310601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]
I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.[/quote]


I had to take 2 ambien last night. One at 1:30 and then I woke up pissed as hell and took another at 4:30

And sorry to the mods for my cursing but this game warrants F bombs :)[/quote]

We are all right there with you Mr. Maher. This was a blatant blown call and a lie to cover it up. Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson are not worth shit as the heads of this league if they can’t come clean and also discipline these refs in some way.[/quote]

vackerman@bigeast.com

sjackson@bigeast.com[/quote]

Just sent this to Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson

Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson

I am writing to you in order to voice my extreme displeasure with the officiating at the end of last nights St. John’s vs Seton Hall game. It is not only that the blatant missed call cost St. John’s the game, but the lie and misrepresentation of the facts by both the referees, Mr. Jackson and yourself is completely and utterly despicable.

watching the play at the end could see that LJ Figueroa did not step out of bounds and executed a clean steal which was directed inbounds right to Mustapha Heron. The referee inadvertently blew the play dead in anticipation of Figueroa going out of bounds which never happened. In fact, he blew the whistle before the play was even completed due to his anticipation of the expected outcome. Then the lie and cover up began.

The explanation was that the clock never started which was false. Even if it didn’t start (hypothetically) , if a whistle is blown inadvertently and neither team possesses the ball , it should be then ruled a jump ball which should have gone to St. John’s as a result of the possession arrow. But, no, the referees not only lie about the clock not starting, they give the ball to Seton Hall. The clock went from 3.9 seconds to 3.5 seconds before the referee prematurely blew the whistle and then after the review they only put 3.1 seconds on the clock which screws St. John’s even more because after Seton Hall scored there was not enough time left for St. John’s to have a chance at a quality shot.

Then, as if that is not bad enough, after Seton Hall inbounds the Ball, Mamukelashvili blatantly walks with the ball and nothing is called and he passes the ball off for the winning shot. The utter incompetence of the referees stole this game from St. John’s last night and the response from the Big East office which I assume came yourself Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson was completely inadequate. Why was the whistle blown to begin with when Figueroa never steps out of bounds? Why were we told the clock never started when that was false? Why was time taken off the clock to begin play again? Why wasn’t St. John’s awarded to the ball due to the fact that Figueroa never stepped out of bounds or because after an inadvertent whistle where neither team possesses the ball it should have been awarded to St. John’s ? I and every other St. John’s fan needs these questions answered along with why traveling wasn’t called on Mamukleshvili.

This was arguably the most important game for the St. John’s Basketball Program in a very long time and to have it stolen from them the way it was is unacceptable. The Big East in my opinion needs St. John’s to be very good on a consistent basis and needs New York City engaged in order to truly compete with the power football conferences in basketball. I This game would have put the St. John’s program on a path towards achieving that goal and to have it ripped away from them in such fashion is a travesty. Also, for your office to put forth such a lame explanation of the aforementioned events at the end of the game is disgusting and does a huge disservice to both the St. John’s Basketball Program and the Big East itself. These referees should be disciplined in some fashion. To review the play for ten minutes and not get it right is complete incompetence.

This game, when all is said and done, could very well cost the St. John’s Basketball Program an NCAA Tournament Bid. If that were to happen, if the NCAA Selection Committee, in the end, decides that St. John’s just falls short of a bid, that they just did not quite do enough, then last nights referees along with you Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson must absorb part of the blame for not righting the wrong that has occurred here. If you want to be seen as big time conference along with the power football conferences then you have to act like one. What occurred last night was reminiscent of something that would occur in a CYO game. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so devastating to the St. John’s Basketball Program and their fan base.[/quote]

Really? It's a basketball game....get over it! I agree that we got screwed, but at the end of the day, its a game. Those refs are human, just like everyone else, and mistakes are going to happen, even ones that are blatantly obvious. Win or lose this game, your life should not have been that much different. How would you like it if the day after you made a mistake at work, you were bombarded by emails with opinions from people that have absolutely nothing to do with your job?[/quote]

Eric, I agree it's not life or death, but I think you're missing the boat here. This was not a regular bad call. It was a human error, followed by 5 full minutes with a replay to get it right, and then an insulting [strike]lie[/strike] explanation by our own conference.

We didn't play well down the stretch, but geez.....could they possibly kick us in the a$$ a little more?[/quote]

If I'm sju, I don't let this issue just die, I want a f'ing explanation and I'd call every day, after a week if no answer, I'd go to the league office and demand a real explanation, and that timing be isn't good enough. If they don't get a real explanation then play the entire season under protest.

They want the issue to be dead in a few weeks, F Them, I wouldn't let it slide no matter if we win the next 3.

I'm dead set on that.[/quote]

And in the end, what good is any of that going to do?
 
evil happens when good redmen do nothing.
shame. shame. shame to those that do nothing, such as an e-mail, about this lame coverup.
 
[quote="section10" post=310763]evil happens when good redmen do nothing.
shame. shame. shame to those that do nothing, such as an e-mail, about this lame coverup.[/quote]

I admire your passion. For me, the “evil” is done and people like Ackerman and Jackson wouldn’t change for anything short of the return of Christ. I am beyond cynical when it comes to people who walk outside on a beautiful day, look you right in the eye and tell you the sky is green.
 
[quote="otis" post=310737]A question for those that bet of college basketball games, or otherwise follow point spreads ..... did the bad call change what bettors won from the point spread ?

Thanks[/quote]
The line was 3. So it gave SH an opportunity to push or get it to OT for a potential cover.

What killed those who bet SH was the kid who made the 3 missing the FT purposely.
 
I have another question that hopefully someone can answer.....

a non StJohn’s fan just told me that the Seton Hall player that hit the game winning shot was an illegal substitution because he entered the game after the miscall from the referee and because no time had run off from when the inbound Seton Hall player had been handed the ball the substitution should never have been allowed.

Is this true ?

If so the Big East refs missed 2 critical calls: ( I ) erroneous whistle, and ( 2) the illegal substitution.
 
[quote="otis" post=310774]I have another question that hopefully someone can answer.....

a non StJohn’s fan just told me that the Seton Hall player that hit the game winning shot was an illegal substitution because he entered the game after the miscall from the referee and because no time had run off from when the inbound Seton Hall player had been handed the ball the substitution should never have been allowed.

Is this true ?

If so the Big East refs missed 2 critical calls: ( I ) erroneous whistle, and ( 2) the illegal substitution.[/quote]

Since time did run off the clock there was a play and I believe the substitution was legal.
 
I received a response from Mike Cragg:


Good morning Gene!

Thank you for sharing your passion and interest in St. John's and for our men's basketball program. In great part, It is your devotion and investment into the school and our athletics program, as to exactly why I wanted to be at St. John's when looking for the right fit as an Athletic Director. I love it and share that passion for wanting it to be great, and for St. John's to be a prominent part of the national fabric of sports in NYC and our country.

With the strongest of convictions, I believe we have that opportunity in front of us!

Last Saturday night did not end with the desired result or the proper outcome after L.J. made a tremendous "winning play" on defense. In the end as administrators, coaches, and fans - that is all we can ask - that the players play hard and with passion ... I believe our staff and players have achieved that success for all 13 games this year.

We have properly and privately communicated our thoughts on the final minute of play to the Big East office - and that, again, is all we can do in a professional, classy, and efficient manner. Those are the standards we will uphold here at St. John's as a proud member of the conference.

All that being said - we must now focus on the immediacy of facing a Top 20 team in our home arena tomorrow night! Coach Mullin did that exact thing in the locker room after the game to the team - turning their attention immediately to the very fact of moving on to the "next play".

Most importantly, there is no doubt we need you and many, many others with us in the building - not only tomorrow night - but throughout the season as many times as possible. That is the very first step in making sure we seize upon these "moments" for a positive outcome and helping our program back to achieving successes at the highest levels on a consistent basis.

Again - appreciate your note and hope to meet you soon!

Go St. John's!

Mike


Mike Cragg
Director of Athletics
craggm@stjohns.edu
(718) 990-6223 work
(919) 819-7624 cell

/var/folders/lh/xg1yfn3d45989c3nb_j3h39mf3nw7s/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/cidB67CCDF0-C03A-448D-AC7E-82DBE1E96CA4
 
[quote="stjohnnie75" post=310781]
Since time did run off the clock there was a play and I believe the substitution was legal.[/quote]

OK .... now I am more confused.

I thought the reason the misguided referee blew his whistle was because the clock had not started.

If the knucklehead ref did not blow his whistle for the clock then why did he blow it ?
 
[quote="otis" post=310783][quote="stjohnnie75" post=310781]
Since time did run off the clock there was a play and I believe the substitution was legal.[/quote]

OK .... now I am more confused.

I thought the reason the misguided referee blew his whistle was because the clock had not started.

If the knucklehead ref did not blow his whistle for the clock then why did he blow it ?[/quote]

No one knows that answer.

The ref that blew the whistle should not have even been watching the clock since the play was live two feet away from him.

If he was watching the clock that would explain why he missed the great play from LJ.
 
[quote="Logen" post=310756][quote="OLV72" post=310741][quote="Eric Williamson" post=310739][quote="Mean Gene" post=310663][quote="41ndone" post=310644][quote="Mean Gene" post=310642][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310603][quote="Adam" post=310601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]
I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.[/quote]


I had to take 2 ambien last night. One at 1:30 and then I woke up pissed as hell and took another at 4:30

And sorry to the mods for my cursing but this game warrants F bombs :)[/quote]

We are all right there with you Mr. Maher. This was a blatant blown call and a lie to cover it up. Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson are not worth shit as the heads of this league if they can’t come clean and also discipline these refs in some way.[/quote]

vackerman@bigeast.com

sjackson@bigeast.com[/quote]

Just sent this to Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson

Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson

I am writing to you in order to voice my extreme displeasure with the officiating at the end of last nights St. John’s vs Seton Hall game. It is not only that the blatant missed call cost St. John’s the game, but the lie and misrepresentation of the facts by both the referees, Mr. Jackson and yourself is completely and utterly despicable.

watching the play at the end could see that LJ Figueroa did not step out of bounds and executed a clean steal which was directed inbounds right to Mustapha Heron. The referee inadvertently blew the play dead in anticipation of Figueroa going out of bounds which never happened. In fact, he blew the whistle before the play was even completed due to his anticipation of the expected outcome. Then the lie and cover up began.

The explanation was that the clock never started which was false. Even if it didn’t start (hypothetically) , if a whistle is blown inadvertently and neither team possesses the ball , it should be then ruled a jump ball which should have gone to St. John’s as a result of the possession arrow. But, no, the referees not only lie about the clock not starting, they give the ball to Seton Hall. The clock went from 3.9 seconds to 3.5 seconds before the referee prematurely blew the whistle and then after the review they only put 3.1 seconds on the clock which screws St. John’s even more because after Seton Hall scored there was not enough time left for St. John’s to have a chance at a quality shot.

Then, as if that is not bad enough, after Seton Hall inbounds the Ball, Mamukelashvili blatantly walks with the ball and nothing is called and he passes the ball off for the winning shot. The utter incompetence of the referees stole this game from St. John’s last night and the response from the Big East office which I assume came yourself Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson was completely inadequate. Why was the whistle blown to begin with when Figueroa never steps out of bounds? Why were we told the clock never started when that was false? Why was time taken off the clock to begin play again? Why wasn’t St. John’s awarded to the ball due to the fact that Figueroa never stepped out of bounds or because after an inadvertent whistle where neither team possesses the ball it should have been awarded to St. John’s ? I and every other St. John’s fan needs these questions answered along with why traveling wasn’t called on Mamukleshvili.

This was arguably the most important game for the St. John’s Basketball Program in a very long time and to have it stolen from them the way it was is unacceptable. The Big East in my opinion needs St. John’s to be very good on a consistent basis and needs New York City engaged in order to truly compete with the power football conferences in basketball. I This game would have put the St. John’s program on a path towards achieving that goal and to have it ripped away from them in such fashion is a travesty. Also, for your office to put forth such a lame explanation of the aforementioned events at the end of the game is disgusting and does a huge disservice to both the St. John’s Basketball Program and the Big East itself. These referees should be disciplined in some fashion. To review the play for ten minutes and not get it right is complete incompetence.

This game, when all is said and done, could very well cost the St. John’s Basketball Program an NCAA Tournament Bid. If that were to happen, if the NCAA Selection Committee, in the end, decides that St. John’s just falls short of a bid, that they just did not quite do enough, then last nights referees along with you Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson must absorb part of the blame for not righting the wrong that has occurred here. If you want to be seen as big time conference along with the power football conferences then you have to act like one. What occurred last night was reminiscent of something that would occur in a CYO game. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so devastating to the St. John’s Basketball Program and their fan base.[/quote]

Really? It's a basketball game....get over it! I agree that we got screwed, but at the end of the day, its a game. Those refs are human, just like everyone else, and mistakes are going to happen, even ones that are blatantly obvious. Win or lose this game, your life should not have been that much different. How would you like it if the day after you made a mistake at work, you were bombarded by emails with opinions from people that have absolutely nothing to do with your job?[/quote]

Mistakes are human and acceptable. Covering up errors is human and unacceptable. Most of us are fired if we cover up an error with an untruth. The issue here is not the inadvertent whistle. It is the mishandling at the monitor and what is perceived to be a cover up explanation and avoidance of admitting that the whistle was in anticipation of Fig landing out of bounds with the ball.

If the league leaves this with their current explanation they will have more trouble on their hands as unresolved problems don't age well. They fester and get worse over time. The officiating in the league has been a problem for a long time. I don't think the league will walk away from this and remain silent. They're smart people. I am hoping for changes in the way officials work too many games.[/quote]

I get your point but the problem has nothing to do with refs working too many games; I agree that is very real but completely unrelated to this. I think the ref made a human mistake on the court but the abject dishonesty starting with the review on the court and then the BE office is astounding. If the people officiating the game and overseeing the league have NO desire to be honest, then what do you have? It may be overly dramatic, but why invest my time, and sometimes money, when an honest outcome to a sporting event is of no concern to the powers that be? I usually just eventually shrug off things like this because I have no doubt Ackerman, Jackson, and that ilk care about money and money only, they don’t gave a rats ass about athletes, etc. but for me, this is not going away. The frustrating thing is that in reality, nothing can be done except to accept it or walk away. I have turned my back on the NFL for various reasons and the NBA because for me it has too much of a TV wrestling aspect due to the “superstar” officiating. I guess I have a decision to make concerning CBB. The team needs to understand how they let this happen but as a fan, the dishonesty by the league and the disrespect they show with their bullshit is tough for me to swallow. We all have to deal with dishonesty in real life, sports is supposed to be an escape from that, not a reminder.[/quote]


I agree with your point to a point. The overall issues with officiating are secondary here to the dishonesty and Jackson's rush to protect them.

There does need to be changes. Ref's make mistakes as a result of doing four to five games a week all over the country. They shouldn't be paid by the game. The system has not changed since before this sport became what it is today.

I appreciate your points and think that many of us have a harder time enjoying sports in this day of following the money no matter the cost to the sport itself. It has pretty much ruined most major sports and horse racing now loses its star thoroughbreds after they win a few major races. It sucks.

I just think Val Ackerman is aware of the stain on her league standings and will know she can't let this sit. Jackson made another and probably worse error by rushing to defend the refs cover up.

We patronize this sport and should let them know that we're not satisfied till the league acknowledges that the result of the game has an asterisk.
 
[quote="OLV72" post=310791][quote="Logen" post=310756][quote="OLV72" post=310741][quote="Eric Williamson" post=310739][quote="Mean Gene" post=310663][quote="41ndone" post=310644][quote="Mean Gene" post=310642][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310603][quote="Adam" post=310601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]
I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.[/quote]


I had to take 2 ambien last night. One at 1:30 and then I woke up pissed as hell and took another at 4:30

And sorry to the mods for my cursing but this game warrants F bombs :)[/quote]

We are all right there with you Mr. Maher. This was a blatant blown call and a lie to cover it up. Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson are not worth shit as the heads of this league if they can’t come clean and also discipline these refs in some way.[/quote]

vackerman@bigeast.com

sjackson@bigeast.com[/quote]

Just sent this to Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson

Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson

I am writing to you in order to voice my extreme displeasure with the officiating at the end of last nights St. John’s vs Seton Hall game. It is not only that the blatant missed call cost St. John’s the game, but the lie and misrepresentation of the facts by both the referees, Mr. Jackson and yourself is completely and utterly despicable.

watching the play at the end could see that LJ Figueroa did not step out of bounds and executed a clean steal which was directed inbounds right to Mustapha Heron. The referee inadvertently blew the play dead in anticipation of Figueroa going out of bounds which never happened. In fact, he blew the whistle before the play was even completed due to his anticipation of the expected outcome. Then the lie and cover up began.

The explanation was that the clock never started which was false. Even if it didn’t start (hypothetically) , if a whistle is blown inadvertently and neither team possesses the ball , it should be then ruled a jump ball which should have gone to St. John’s as a result of the possession arrow. But, no, the referees not only lie about the clock not starting, they give the ball to Seton Hall. The clock went from 3.9 seconds to 3.5 seconds before the referee prematurely blew the whistle and then after the review they only put 3.1 seconds on the clock which screws St. John’s even more because after Seton Hall scored there was not enough time left for St. John’s to have a chance at a quality shot.

Then, as if that is not bad enough, after Seton Hall inbounds the Ball, Mamukelashvili blatantly walks with the ball and nothing is called and he passes the ball off for the winning shot. The utter incompetence of the referees stole this game from St. John’s last night and the response from the Big East office which I assume came yourself Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson was completely inadequate. Why was the whistle blown to begin with when Figueroa never steps out of bounds? Why were we told the clock never started when that was false? Why was time taken off the clock to begin play again? Why wasn’t St. John’s awarded to the ball due to the fact that Figueroa never stepped out of bounds or because after an inadvertent whistle where neither team possesses the ball it should have been awarded to St. John’s ? I and every other St. John’s fan needs these questions answered along with why traveling wasn’t called on Mamukleshvili.

This was arguably the most important game for the St. John’s Basketball Program in a very long time and to have it stolen from them the way it was is unacceptable. The Big East in my opinion needs St. John’s to be very good on a consistent basis and needs New York City engaged in order to truly compete with the power football conferences in basketball. I This game would have put the St. John’s program on a path towards achieving that goal and to have it ripped away from them in such fashion is a travesty. Also, for your office to put forth such a lame explanation of the aforementioned events at the end of the game is disgusting and does a huge disservice to both the St. John’s Basketball Program and the Big East itself. These referees should be disciplined in some fashion. To review the play for ten minutes and not get it right is complete incompetence.

This game, when all is said and done, could very well cost the St. John’s Basketball Program an NCAA Tournament Bid. If that were to happen, if the NCAA Selection Committee, in the end, decides that St. John’s just falls short of a bid, that they just did not quite do enough, then last nights referees along with you Ms. Ackerman and Mr. Jackson must absorb part of the blame for not righting the wrong that has occurred here. If you want to be seen as big time conference along with the power football conferences then you have to act like one. What occurred last night was reminiscent of something that would occur in a CYO game. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so devastating to the St. John’s Basketball Program and their fan base.[/quote]

Really? It's a basketball game....get over it! I agree that we got screwed, but at the end of the day, its a game. Those refs are human, just like everyone else, and mistakes are going to happen, even ones that are blatantly obvious. Win or lose this game, your life should not have been that much different. How would you like it if the day after you made a mistake at work, you were bombarded by emails with opinions from people that have absolutely nothing to do with your job?[/quote]

Mistakes are human and acceptable. Covering up errors is human and unacceptable. Most of us are fired if we cover up an error with an untruth. The issue here is not the inadvertent whistle. It is the mishandling at the monitor and what is perceived to be a cover up explanation and avoidance of admitting that the whistle was in anticipation of Fig landing out of bounds with the ball.

If the league leaves this with their current explanation they will have more trouble on their hands as unresolved problems don't age well. They fester and get worse over time. The officiating in the league has been a problem for a long time. I don't think the league will walk away from this and remain silent. They're smart people. I am hoping for changes in the way officials work too many games.[/quote]

I get your point but the problem has nothing to do with refs working too many games; I agree that is very real but completely unrelated to this. I think the ref made a human mistake on the court but the abject dishonesty starting with the review on the court and then the BE office is astounding. If the people officiating the game and overseeing the league have NO desire to be honest, then what do you have? It may be overly dramatic, but why invest my time, and sometimes money, when an honest outcome to a sporting event is of no concern to the powers that be? I usually just eventually shrug off things like this because I have no doubt Ackerman, Jackson, and that ilk care about money and money only, they don’t gave a rats ass about athletes, etc. but for me, this is not going away. The frustrating thing is that in reality, nothing can be done except to accept it or walk away. I have turned my back on the NFL for various reasons and the NBA because for me it has too much of a TV wrestling aspect due to the “superstar” officiating. I guess I have a decision to make concerning CBB. The team needs to understand how they let this happen but as a fan, the dishonesty by the league and the disrespect they show with their bullshit is tough for me to swallow. We all have to deal with dishonesty in real life, sports is supposed to be an escape from that, not a reminder.[/quote]


I agree with your point to a point. The overall issues with officiating are secondary here to the dishonesty and Jackson's rush to protect them.

There does need to be changes. Ref's make mistakes as a result of doing four to five games a week all over the country. They shouldn't be paid by the game. The system has not changed since before this sport became what it is today.

I appreciate your points and think that many of us have a harder time enjoying sports in this day of following the money no matter the cost to the sport itself. It has pretty much ruined most major sports and horse racing now loses its star thoroughbreds after they win a few major races. It sucks.

I just think Val Ackerman is aware of the stain on her league standings and will know she can't let this sit. Jackson made another and probably worse error by rushing to defend the refs cover up.

We patronize this sport and should let them know that we're not satisfied till the league acknowledges that the result of the game has an asterisk.[/quote]

Your point about refs is very valid and I was probably too quick to dismiss it. You may very well be right about Ackerman but any action she takes at this point short of giving SJU the W (which obviously is not going to happen) will ring false to me, just more hypocrisy. I guess I will know tomorrow night how much, if any, this has affected my patronage.
 
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