(POST-GAME) @Seton Hall (Pru Ctr), Sat. Dec. 29, 8:30p, FSN / 570AM

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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=310569]As we've all said, a very disappointing loss and a game we should have won from several perspectives. However, I don't buy that this loss will hurt us with pundits who didn't have us ranked due to schedule. We lost on a last second shot to a very good team who also knocked off Kentucky on a last second shot. If anything, last night confirmed we are a very good team despite our schedule.
Time to move on and get ready for Marquette and Gtown.[/quote]


Usually I would be grieving for days after this unfortunate loss, however I agree with you that this Johnnie team will have an excellent season and will survive this loss. BTW, we will not lose to Seton Hall at home.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=310567]I have said this since he started doing it but Ponds taking a half off and not shooting is not right. He just needs to balance it out better.[/quote]

IMO, it doesn't quite look intuitive. It kinda seems somewhat forced. I know he's a good passer and all, but this style of ball where he's barely looking at the basket and attempting to get his cohorts involved just doesn't seem organic.

He needs to be himself.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=310583][quote="we are sju" post=310567]I have said this since he started doing it but Ponds taking a half off and not shooting is not right. He just needs to balance it out better.[/quote]

IMO, it doesn't quite look intuitive. It kinda seems somewhat forced. I know he's a good passer and all, but this style of ball where he's barely looking at the basket and attempting to get his cohorts involved just doesn't seem organic.

He needs to be himself.[/quote]

The NBA scouts told him being himself wasn't good enough. Watching him play, I can see he has taken the advice a little too extreme.
 
[quote="Logen" post=310556][quote="oldfan61" post=310548]Calls like we saw have been part of basketball since it's founding. You sucked it up and moved on;that's sportsmanship. However, since the availability of filmed replay, all obvious and clear mistakes like this one have been overturned.. The league owes the fans an explanation of why our lying eyes, and those of the HOF announcer, cannot be trusted in this one case. What is the BE's interpretation of the play and re-play we all saw? Was what we and the announcers were shown not made available to the refs? What was the leagues basis for his final call? The league owes me an explanation[/quote]

The out of bounds play cannot be reviewed and reversed because there needs to be two players involved for the review to be permissible. Why they made that a stipulation, no clue. Don’t worry about getting it right, don’t worry about the integrity of the game, just worry about the PR. So just make up some bullshit about the clock and move on. As a fan, it sucks big time: hopefully the coaches and players are looking in their respective mirrors and realizing it was their fault entirely it came to that.[/quote]

You're correct about replay, but this was an inadvertent whistle. The rule book has a provision for this specifically instructing officials to use the possession arrow if no team has control of the ball when the whistle is blown. They absolutely could have and should have award us the ball.
 
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[quote="Logen" post=310532][quote="Beast of the East" post=310518]Here's clarity. Our guys played poorly for the last 8 minutes. They stood around and hoisted shots that the defense gave them, and it allowed SH to climb into the game. Everybody would agree with that. It takes no genius or higher knowledge of the game.

It became a 10 second game.
Seton hall was given 3 possessions to win the game in those last 10 seconds when they should have had 2. Their last shot was a result of a bad decision by a big man on the way to the hoop guarded by 6ft 2 ponds. He passed it to a guy averaging 1.4 mpg. Defenses sag in those moments and villanova won championship 1 by banking on that.

The coaches will reinforce in the next practice that getting to that point with poor play cost them the game but it doesn't change the fact that a horrifically bad whistle when the game should have been over caused this, not what happened before that.[/quote]

Cry about the refs all you want, the players and coaches lost that game, not the refs. Anyone with a modicum of objectivity knows that bad calls happen all the time. You play poorly and keep the other team in the game, you get what you asked for. One call never decides a game, regardless of when it is made. Our poor play made that poor call everything and that is on the team.[/quote]

Bad calls decide a game when the team about to win had the ball and the lead with 3.9 seconds to go.
 
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[quote="NorCal Johnny" post=310559]Has there been an explanation of why the whistle was blown? Was it because the ref didn't see the clock start or because he thought Figgy was out of bounds? If the former, the ensuing out of bounds play should have been from the same spot, if the latter, more than .8 seconds should have come off the clock.[/quote]

I can help......

What Happened:
Ref thought the ball was going to go out of bounds and blew the whistle too early. The crew then did not know how to handle an inadvertent whistle and made the wrong call. Should have been SJU ball.

What they said Happened:
In the half a second between the inbound pass and the whistle, the referee noticed or was informed of a "timing issue" (impossible and thereis evidence that the clock operated). They then decided to re-do the inbound pass from a different spot, after allowing a substitution.

#Facts
 
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What we do have to improve is our switching off the oppositions big man to help, allowing easy passes underneath for layups. We have been burnt every game. The Hall scored too many easy putbacks.
 
Did the crew or supervisor of refs ever give an explanation? Seems like the latest one is the ref blew the whistle because the clock didn't start, and not because he thought Figgy was about to step out of bounds? If that is his excuse, hook both him and the timer to a polygraph machine. This wasn't a bad call, it was an egregious one that changed the outcome of the game. Missed foul shots happen. So do missed calls. But this was a botch job that could have been corrected by the ref admitting he blew the whistle before the play unfolded, and the rule called for use of the possession arrow. And Hall would have no complaints. In fact, they would have time to foul or steal the inbounds, which wouldn't have happened if the play continued and a loose Heron would have sprinted downcourt for the big win!
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=310583][quote="we are sju" post=310567]I have said this since he started doing it but Ponds taking a half off and not shooting is not right. He just needs to balance it out better.[/quote]

IMO, it doesn't quite look intuitive. It kinda seems somewhat forced. I know he's a good passer and all, but this style of ball where he's barely looking at the basket and attempting to get his cohorts involved just doesn't seem organic.

He needs to be himself.[/quote]

100% agree
Doesn't need to be John Stockton. Kevin Johnson would be better template.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=310587][quote="NorCal Johnny" post=310559]Has there been an explanation of why the whistle was blown? Was it because the ref didn't see the clock start or because he thought Figgy was out of bounds? If the former, the ensuing out of bounds play should have been from the same spot, if the latter, more than .8 seconds should have come off the clock.[/quote]

I can help......

What Happened:
Ref thought the ball was going to go out of bounds and blew the whistle too early. The crew then did not know how to handle an inadvertent whistle and made the wrong call. Should have been SJU ball.

What they said Happened:
In the half a second between the inbound pass and the whistle, the referee noticed or was informed of a "timing issue" (impossible and thereis evidence that the clock operated). They then decided to re-do the inbound pass from a different spot, after allowing a substitution.

#Facts[/quote]

absolutely what happened
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=310589]Did the crew or supervisor of refs ever give an explanation? Seems like the latest one is the ref blew the whistle because the clock didn't start, and not because he thought Figgy was about to step out of bounds? If that is his excuse, hook both him and the timer to a polygraph machine. This wasn't a bad call, it was an egregious one that changed the outcome of the game. Missed foul shots happen. So do missed calls. But this was a botch job that could have been corrected by the ref admitting he blew the whistle before the play unfolded, and the rule called for use of the possession arrow. And Hall would have no complaints. In fact, they would have time to foul or steal the inbounds, which wouldn't have happened if the play continued and a loose Heron would have sprinted downcourt for the big win![/quote]

Yes, Big East Senior Associate Commissioner of Men's Basketball, Stu Jackson, released a statement saying it was a "timing issue". Needless to say, in order to maintain any credibility, he needs to amend that statement.
 
It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=310593][quote="Ray Morgan" post=310589]Did the crew or supervisor of refs ever give an explanation? Seems like the latest one is the ref blew the whistle because the clock didn't start, and not because he thought Figgy was about to step out of bounds? If that is his excuse, hook both him and the timer to a polygraph machine. This wasn't a bad call, it was an egregious one that changed the outcome of the game. Missed foul shots happen. So do missed calls. But this was a botch job that could have been corrected by the ref admitting he blew the whistle before the play unfolded, and the rule called for use of the possession arrow. And Hall would have no complaints. In fact, they would have time to foul or steal the inbounds, which wouldn't have happened if the play continued and a loose Heron would have sprinted downcourt for the big win![/quote]

Yes, Big East Senior Associate Commissioner of Men's Basketball, Stu Jackson, released a statement saying it was a "timing issue". Needless to say, in order to maintain any credibility, he needs to amend that statement.[/quote]

Watching the replay for the tenth time this is such a crock. If you taped it check out Breeding explaining it to Mullin, he seems to say he stepped out of bounds.
 
Rare to see 1 and 1 with under a minute to go. Lack of ball movement and settling for outside jumpers allowed the Hall to get back in and really hurt us in end of game free throws.

Needs to be accountability for Refs. Replays, different camera angles, all this technology and stupidity still happens.

Last point, Greg Williams is a keeper.
 
For me it’s not the blown call, it’s that they spent ten minutes at the monitor and didn’t reverse it. If that call could not be overturned there is no reason to review out of bounds calls in the last two minutes. None.

There will not be a more obvious out of bounds call to reverse in the entire NCAA season.

Review should be abolished it all it does is take the momentum of the game away and it solves nothing.
 
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And by the way, when watching the game on TV, I hate when the camera focuses on anything other than the current action. Who cares what expressions the coach or player makes after a scoring play. Stay with the action.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]

I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.
 
[quote="Adam" post=310601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=310595]It’s 1pm and I’m not even close to over this fucking ref debacle. I’m not opposed to deporting then to Afghanistan or the north sentinel island. Oh and btw I know Monte and he is a great guy and definitely doesn’t have an agenda. I can see both sides of people who were pissed about the last 8 minutes of standing around on offense and no ball movement because I was furious during that time too. But the refs cost us the game IMO. I’m still fucking stunned[/quote]
I legit couldn't sleep last night because I kept waking up nightmare after nightmare.

This is the worst loss I can remember. Not because we lost, but because we 100% deserved to win.

**** the refs. I hope the team uses this as motivation every single remaining game. That is the only way to right the wrong.[/quote]


I had to take 2 ambien last night. One at 1:30 and then I woke up pissed as hell and took another at 4:30

And sorry to the mods for my cursing but this game warrants F bombs :)
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=310542]And as for the back and forth going on between posters who blame the team and coaching for making it close and the posters blaming the ref, as Amase said, it’s simply BOTH.

I was at the game last night and I walked out furious at the team because we played horrible ball down the stretch. I was sitting across from the St. John’s bench, so I couldn’t see the LJ play at all. Walking out, I was furious at the players for blowing the lead and playing too much 1 on 1.

But after getting home and seeing the replays of the play, it is perfectly fair for everyone to be angry at the officiating. That is inexcusable.

Like I said last night, it’s kind of karma for the VCU ending I suppose, but that doesn’t make it suck any less[/quote]
https://redmen.com/forum/redmentalk/273402-bar-vcu-tue-nov-20-7-30p-espn-2-970-wnym.html?start=260#303804]Karma? Who saw that coming?[/url]
 
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I don't think this is the same as the VCU ending.

That ending had some gray area. Was he definitely fouled? If the foul was called, would he have hit his free throws?

This was completely black and white. We 100% deserved the W.

Hopefully we still have some positive karma in the future remaining.
 
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