(POST GAME) @Seton Hall, Fri. Dec. 11, 4:30p, CBS SN / 570 AM WMCA

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[quote="Vinny" post=407841]He's lucky to be at St John's. Coaches weren't exactly beating a path.[/quote]

That was then, and this is now. He seems like a loyal young man and hopefully he appreciates the opportunity that CMA gave him when, as you say, other coaches weren't beating a path
 
Tough game that exposed a lot of weaknesses in this years team.

Mike said he doesn't recall starting a Freshman point guard before Posh. Posh does have talent and potential. He's also inexperienced at college basketball. He's facing a steep learning curve with very little time. The next couple months are going to put him to the test. I'm not sure that it's the right call to put a Freshman pg into a starting role in the BE.

Coach Anderson may have to use Posh at point guard and rotate with someone else. Let's see how the next few games go.
[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/n...ms-to-be-st-johns-seton-hall-tide-turner/amp/[/URL]
 
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[quote="Monte" post=407843][quote="Robert Katz" post=407840]Will Champ get frustrated and transfer?[/quote]

Nothing to indicate that he will, but as his stock continues to rise, I'm sure other programs will be putting feelers out. Maybe he can convince his brother to come back home and play here.[/quote]

Do you remember when Charlie Finley advocated making all players free agents every season. He was a very smart businessman. He knew that if only a relatively small number of players were free agents each season, that the competition would drive up salaries for all players. If everyone was available each season, player mobility would be limited and salaries would be lower.

In the 1 free transfer system, my hope is that we see movement in both directions, and perhaps the large number of players available each season to transfer without sitting out will limit movement. It's obvious that a breakthrough player at a mid major, or an underperforming big conference team will have options to consider without sitting out that may be in his best personal interests. On the other hand, players on stacked teams that aren't the focal point or were recruited over will also be able to move to other programs where they can be impact players right away.

It's really up to CMA to build a solid roster for next season or we will see this sort of thing (top players transfer out). If we perform as the coach's poll predicts and are a 9th place team, CMA and staff must recruit a squad for next season that puts us minimally at 5-6 in conference.
 
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The amount of negativity on this board after a loss is staggering...always...and then false “facts” are thrown around, talent levels judged by “experts”, and on and on. Seton Hall was picked to finish in the upper half of the league and played that way at home, yet we were still in the game late. How did that happen? Were we lucky with a bunch of “role players”?

Guys, we all watched last year. Anderson has a complicated scheme that takes time for players to learn. It’s a process, but we will get better and we already saw signs yesterday in pockets that the team is catching on. Half the team is new to this level of play and we didn’t have a full set of practices or preseason to get fully acclimated. It will come, and I believe sooner than it did a year ago.

No excuses for our defense on Mamu yesterday. It was horrible but I fully expect us to be much better the next time we play them. And no excuses for the lack of pg dribble penetration yesterday. Again, horrible with only 10 FT attempts vs a team that had 1 block in the game. Fixable when Dunn plays more, and as Posh learns what works in this league. When that part of our game gets better, then Cole and Williams and possibly even Wusu will have much better looks.

Anyway, I’m not giving up on this team, this coach or the talent level. We will get better and soon. Looking for adjustments tomorrow to tighten up the defense some more, including getting our bigs to stay home down low. And I expect much better guard play as these guys continue to learn to play together and learn this system. I’m sure I’ll get hammered for this post. I don’t care. Looking forward to the growth process with this team. We are St John’s !!!
 
Our half court game on both ends has left a lot to be desired.

Offensively we don’t put pressure on the defense. We take what is given to us and get very few easy looks. The shots we do take are mostly after our guys realize they are open, opposed to being ready to score before you get the ball. Need to do a much better job getting our best players in scoring positions, e.g. Cole off a screen to catch and shoot, champ isolation at the elbow.

Think about all the possessions we have on the defensive end where we need to have 2,3 sometimes 4 different close outs. We have to scramble constantly once teams settle down in the half court and teams end up getting open looks from deep or dump offs in the paint. We are never forcing teams to scramble, rotate and provide help on their end. Some of that is personnel, but a lot of it is approach. A great start would be stopping dribble penetration on D and getting some of our own on O. Easier said than Dunn, but hopefully he helps.

Long story short, in the half court, other teams are dictating shots on both ends.
 
[quote="TheArtest15" post=407833]Can we finally admit that we are a little worried about the recruiting and talent that CMA has brought in here? Seton Hall beat us handily without one of their bette players in Aiken. They controlled the whole game, tempo etc. It was clear our talent level was no where close to theirs in all honesty, and as someone posted earlier, they aren't even one of the top teams in the conference. If we want to be a consistent winner we need better talent. I don't want to have to wait every 3-4 years for his teams to get good because they are all upperclassmen.

Is it just me or does anyone else just so frustrated watching CMAs system? It like they have no real defensive plan to stop other teams best players, they just throw pressure at you and hope that you turn the ball overloading to quick points. I feel like it is an out of date system that doesn't make proper adjustments. Far to many teams have Bigs that can handle which kills us. Much like our prior two coaches this coach runs no half court plays it seems. Our offense is that on defense we hope to turn them over, which is not a recipe for success. We need another game changer on this team. its Champ and a bunch of average role players right now. Sure I think posh will be good but he's limited offensively right now.

I just feel like this team has a very low ceiling, not trying to be negative, but just honest assessment so far. I just feel like if this system was so successful why don't any other coaches adopt it?[/quote]

I think you make some fair points. I think also CMA has the chops to do it.

But we should stop overrating the talent level. Again SJU had no players picked pre-season All BE or All-Freshmen/Newcomer. Not one. Those are objective coaches who see these players all day on tape and in person. They were picked 9th for a reason. Stop saying SJU is deep. No they aren't. 4-5 guys on the team would either be non rotation guys or quite frankly not on the team for a top 4-5 BE school. As I said in a different thread if you put the entire SJU roster against Nova not sure who you would pick over Novas first 8 players on SJU. If any. That is a HUGE talent gap. Marquette brought in 3 stud freshmen and a ready to plug in transfer with waiver DJ Carton at PG. And they were picked what 6th.

Talent level has to be upgraded thru recruiting.
 
[quote="Jnaw17" post=407847]The amount of negativity on this board after a loss is staggering...always...and then false “facts” are thrown around, talent levels judged by “experts”, and on and on. Seton Hall was picked to finish in the upper half of the league and played that way at home, yet we were still in the game late. How did that happen? Were we lucky with a bunch of “role players”?

Guys, we all watched last year. Anderson has a complicated scheme that takes time for players to learn. It’s a process, but we will get better and we already saw signs yesterday in pockets that the team is catching on. Half the team is new to this level of play and we didn’t have a full set of practices or preseason to get fully acclimated. It will come, and I believe sooner than it did a year ago.

No excuses for our defense on Mamu yesterday. It was horrible but I fully expect us to be much better the next time we play them. And no excuses for the lack of pg dribble penetration yesterday. Again, horrible with only 10 FT attempts vs a team that had 1 block in the game. Fixable when Dunn plays more, and as Posh learns what works in this league. When that part of our game gets better, then Cole and Williams and possibly even Wusu will have much better looks.

Anyway, I’m not giving up on this team, this coach or the talent level. We will get better and soon. Looking for adjustments tomorrow to tighten up the defense some more, including getting our bigs to stay home down low. And I expect much better guard play as these guys continue to learn to play together and learn this system. I’m sure I’ll get hammered for this post. I don’t care. Looking forward to the growth process with this team. We are St John’s !!![/quote]

You won't be hammered for that, you will be accepted for it. Quite the opposite is true. And expressing concerns are totally different than giving up IMO. Lot of season to go.
 
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[quote="Mean Gene" post=407777]The bottom line is we played the game at their pace and couldn’t force enough turnovers to get enough easy buckets. We need to play a game in the 80’s that’s our pace. We need Niywe also. If we are going to gamble on defense then we need a rim protector for when the gamble doesn’t pay off. If we can’t force our pace then this will be the result unless we start shooting the ball better. Posh has to start sticking that jumper from the top of the key to keep the defense honest and open up driving lanes for him and others. It also allows for the drive and dish so when we are taking threes they’re open threes and not contested.

If you’re watching Villanova vs Georgetown, how are going to defend this 7 footer Wahab on Georgetown? Understanding that this was the first Big East game for half of our team, it’s obvious that this team is still a year away from being a real threat in this conference. Next season we will have virtually everyone back . Everyone will know the system , have a year of Big East experience and they can hit the ground running.[/quote]

Can't disagree, but I'm so tired of waiting for next year.
 
I think some of you guys are overreacting a bit here about Anderson. With both Missouri and Arkansas, Anderson didn't make a tournament run until his 3rd and 4th seasons, respectively. How can we expect anything better here in Anderson's 2nd season at St. John's? This is what we signed up for, he is a proven program builder, who is in year 2 of a 3-4 year rebuild. Willard didn't make the tournament until season 6 at Seton Hall, imagine that. Some of these comments shouldn't be made until after Anderson's 4th season at the helm. I know we have underwhelmed for almost 20 years now, but Anderson wasn't here for that, it sucks, but you have to give him more time to get it right. To me, he is the most proven and talented coach we have had in a very long time.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=407849][quote="TheArtest15" post=407833]Can we finally admit that we are a little worried about the recruiting and talent that CMA has brought in here? Seton Hall beat us handily without one of their bette players in Aiken. They controlled the whole game, tempo etc. It was clear our talent level was no where close to theirs in all honesty, and as someone posted earlier, they aren't even one of the top teams in the conference. If we want to be a consistent winner we need better talent. I don't want to have to wait every 3-4 years for his teams to get good because they are all upperclassmen.

Is it just me or does anyone else just so frustrated watching CMAs system? It like they have no real defensive plan to stop other teams best players, they just throw pressure at you and hope that you turn the ball overloading to quick points. I feel like it is an out of date system that doesn't make proper adjustments. Far to many teams have Bigs that can handle which kills us. Much like our prior two coaches this coach runs no half court plays it seems. Our offense is that on defense we hope to turn them over, which is not a recipe for success. We need another game changer on this team. its Champ and a bunch of average role players right now. Sure I think posh will be good but he's limited offensively right now.

I just feel like this team has a very low ceiling, not trying to be negative, but just honest assessment so far. I just feel like if this system was so successful why don't any other coaches adopt it?[/quote]

I think you make some fair points. I think also CMA has the chops to do it.

But we should stop overrating the talent level. Again SJU had no players picked pre-season All BE or All-Freshmen/Newcomer. Not one. Those are objective coaches who see these players all day on tape and in person. They were picked 9th for a reason. Stop saying SJU is deep. No they aren't. 4-5 guys on the team would either be non rotation guys or quite frankly not on the team for a top 4-5 BE school. As I said in a different thread if you put the entire SJU roster against Nova not sure who you would pick over Novas first 8 players on SJU. If any. That is a HUGE talent gap. Marquette brought in 3 stud freshmen and a ready to plug in transfer with waiver DJ Carton at PG. And they were picked what 6th.

Talent level has to be upgraded thru recruiting.[/quote]

Agree here. A quick look at yesterday reveals that it’s not a system flaw, but rather a bit more of a talent flaw. If it was cma’s system that was the issue, it would stifle Champagnie. It clearly works very well for him, and will work for the right players. If Champagnie can thrive playing CMA’s style, so can others, I think Pinzon will be another kid that thrives and IMO Traore also seems like a kid who can be a Champagnie-type with his work ethic and similar game. Need to keep adding better talent. Our depth will help and we will be a much more solid team as the season rolls on and our young guys improve, but guys like Posh need offensive scorers to give assists to.

I like Mike Anderson’s style a lot and if we had more talent it would look a ton better. It requires all positions to be able to take it to the hoop and move on defense. I’m not saying our talent level is poor, but certainly we have a bit of work to do at that end.
 
[quote="JO23" post=407855]I think some of you guys are overreacting a bit here about Anderson. With both Missouri and Arkansas, Anderson didn't make a tournament run until his 3rd and 4th seasons, respectively. How can we expect anything better here in Anderson's 2nd season at St. John's? This is what we signed up for, he is a proven program builder, who is in year 2 of a 3-4 year rebuild. Willard didn't make the tournament until season 6 at Seton Hall, imagine that. Some of these comments shouldn't be made until after Anderson's 4th season at the helm. I know we have underwhelmed for almost 20 years now, but Anderson wasn't here for that, it sucks, but you have to give him more time to get it right. To me, he is the most proven and talented coach we have had in a very long time.[/quote]

Big East games expose weaknesses much more then OOC games do. Last night was our first Big East game, and we lost. So naturally our fans are going to scrutinize everything, including the players and the coach. I don't see that as an overreaction, and I don't see anyone calling for CMA's firing. Bring in better talent, soon, and all will be well. He's too old and I'm too old for this to be a 10 year rebuild.
 
MCN, that may be a fair point on Champagnie and CMAs system, but then again he struggled at times last year as a freshman acclimating to it. So I’m not yet convinced that some of the new guys lack the talent, but rather are going through that same process.

Fordham, all fair points, although these same BE coaches clearly missed on Champagnie. I think we need to give our new guys a bit more time before declaring them not BE level talents. Especially in a year with fewer practices and preseason games. Regardless your point on needing to continue upgrading talent is well taken.
 
Need at least one true big man. We cannot have consistent offense until we pose a threat both inside and outside. It's basketball 101.

I am not sure what it is about this program (through multiple coaches) that we can't land this type of player, but it is very frustrating.

And, please, no more 6'10" skinny-mini, 3-point taking, paper-thin big men. When it comes to BE play, having more than one of those guys is a waste of a roster spot.

Sorry, this has been my pet-peeve for a long time.
 
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I've been concerned about our recruiting for a couple years now. I saw it as a warning sign that we didn't immediately get top recruits like Lavin and Mullin did during their first several months. We need 4 star players to compete in the Big East. Not just 1 or 2 top 150 players while another 2 transfer or graduate. It's not a winning formula in the Big East. We need top 50 players such as Harrison and Ponds with a supporting cast of other top 100 players. That's what ALL of the other Big East teams do. Even DePaul now.

We do this each year where we tell ourselves the experts are wrong. They aren't, and until we recruit at a Big East level we won't get out of the basement.
 
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As others have stated, we do need an influx of talent here. But, CMA has only been here a little over a year. You don’t get that influx of talent after one full recruiting cycle. We were lucky to get Champagnie. I think CMA will get it done here as he always has and I have faith in guys like Van Macon and DeMeo to get us some players. It will take 2 or 3 recruiting cycles. That being said, I believe this team will improve the same way last seasons team did. I just hope that we don’t dig ourselves as big a hole before we finally turn that corner.
 
At this point, we have an idea what the players on this team can do. CMA needs to adjust his game plan and utilize the talents he has on this roster. 40 Minutes of hell, with the right personnel is great. But there have been too many open shots and uncontested rebounds.
Box out, Damn it. Got to get in on the boards, both offensive and defensive. Oh, and please use time-outs where they would be of obvious help to either adjust strategies or just break the opponents’ momentum.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=407863]Need at least one true big man. We cannot have consistent offense until we pose a threat both inside and outside. It's basketball 101.

I am not sure what it is about this program (through multiple coaches) that we can't land this type of player, but it is very frustrating.

And, please, no more 6'10" skinny-mini, 3-point taking, paper-thin big men. When it comes to BE play, having more than one of those guys is a waste of a roster spot.

Sorry, this has been my pet-peeve for a long time.[/quote]

I pray that I'm wrong, but I think Nyiwe's top accomplishment here when all is said and done is that his arrival is what prompts the departure of two or more guys who haven't done much.
 
Half court offense does not work if their bigs have so dominated your inside players that they repeatedly miss bunnies and take awkward shots instead of forcing defenders to foul on power moves to the hoop. SH defense had luxury of not worrying about inside game and could pressure every outside shot all game.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=407859][quote="fordham96" post=407849][quote="TheArtest15" post=407833]Can we finally admit that we are a little worried about the recruiting and talent that CMA has brought in here? Seton Hall beat us handily without one of their bette players in Aiken. They controlled the whole game, tempo etc. It was clear our talent level was no where close to theirs in all honesty, and as someone posted earlier, they aren't even one of the top teams in the conference. If we want to be a consistent winner we need better talent. I don't want to have to wait every 3-4 years for his teams to get good because they are all upperclassmen.

Is it just me or does anyone else just so frustrated watching CMAs system? It like they have no real defensive plan to stop other teams best players, they just throw pressure at you and hope that you turn the ball overloading to quick points. I feel like it is an out of date system that doesn't make proper adjustments. Far to many teams have Bigs that can handle which kills us. Much like our prior two coaches this coach runs no half court plays it seems. Our offense is that on defense we hope to turn them over, which is not a recipe for success. We need another game changer on this team. its Champ and a bunch of average role players right now. Sure I think posh will be good but he's limited offensively right now.

I just feel like this team has a very low ceiling, not trying to be negative, but just honest assessment so far. I just feel like if this system was so successful why don't any other coaches adopt it?[/quote]

I think you make some fair points. I think also CMA has the chops to do it.

But we should stop overrating the talent level. Again SJU had no players picked pre-season All BE or All-Freshmen/Newcomer. Not one. Those are objective coaches who see these players all day on tape and in person. They were picked 9th for a reason. Stop saying SJU is deep. No they aren't. 4-5 guys on the team would either be non rotation guys or quite frankly not on the team for a top 4-5 BE school. As I said in a different thread if you put the entire SJU roster against Nova not sure who you would pick over Novas first 8 players on SJU. If any. That is a HUGE talent gap. Marquette brought in 3 stud freshmen and a ready to plug in transfer with waiver DJ Carton at PG. And they were picked what 6th.

Talent level has to be upgraded thru recruiting.[/quote]

Agree here. A quick look at yesterday reveals that it’s not a system flaw, but rather a bit more of a talent flaw. If it was cma’s system that was the issue, it would stifle Champagnie. It clearly works very well for him, and will work for the right players. If Champagnie can thrive playing CMA’s style, so can others, I think Pinzon will be another kid that thrives and IMO Traore also seems like a kid who can be a Champagnie-type with his work ethic and similar game. Need to keep adding better talent. Our depth will help and we will be a much more solid team as the season rolls on and our young guys improve, but guys like Posh need offensive scorers to give assists to.

I like Mike Anderson’s style a lot and if we had more talent it would look a ton better. It requires all positions to be able to take it to the hoop and move on defense. I’m not saying our talent level is poor, but certainly we have a bit of work to do at that end.[/quote]

Pinzon and Traore are solid recruits. But in a really good recruiting class they would be the 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and 4th best recruits in that class. Could really use 1 or 2 impactful freshmen. Cuffe could be that type but I am not holding my breath. But that is my larger point.
 
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