Old Guys Talking Hoops

[L J S A]

 

 

[monte]

No coach should be judged based on one game, win or lose. I know where I stand on CMA, and that doesn't change game by game. I will, however, credit him for a well coached game, and criticize him for a poorly coached game. But at the end of the day, my feelings about the man are not going to change even with a good season or a bad season. 

 

[MainMan]

Beast was John Kresse offered the job in 1992? Did he even interview back then ? 

The Cobra Kai folded after the 1989 All Valley Tournament so John Kreese was definitely available.  I think his No Mercy tactics would have been great for our program.

Could you imagine a staff of Kreese, Terry Silver and Johnny Lawrence?!
We’d strike first for recruits. Our best defense would be more offense. And that punk LaRusso would finally get what’s coming to him!

 

 

[beast of the east]

We did all the safe things. Hired Norm Roberts to run a clean program.  Didn’t hire Tiny Morton which finished Lavin and resuscitated Willard and hired Anderson instead of Pitino. I am pretty sure this will be 22 seasons without a tournament win. We want to kick DePaul out of the Big East? We should look in the mirror.

I believe this narrative is one of the biggest myths in sju basketball lore. The notion that Roberts was hired to clean up the program is revisionist. At the time the only black mark on what was viewed as a spotless program occurred one night in Pittsburgh when the school had already fired Jarvis and son, and didn't bother to even add interim staff to keep order. Kevin Clark didn't even have sufficient staff to do bed checks on the road.

The real reason he was hired was that after Fran and Jarvis, Harrington was sick of high paid prima donnas who were frankly a pain in the ass to be around.

Upon the announcement of Jarvis' firing, an athletic department employee quietly got up from his desk, walked over to junior's office, removed the nameplate from the door and without saying a word tossed it into the garbage to applause.

No, Roberts was hired because he is a polite engaging man who used all of his recruiting skills to sell Harrington that he was the right man and that s a Queens kid,SJU was his dream job. If I had to guess, I would say that Roberts rarely if ever attended a st. John's game in his life before coaching. But he did have recruiting skills and his best recruit was Harrington.

 

[RedStormNC]

Beast - wasn't Reynolds arrested / charged for an attack on a female in a dorm and, Shaw arrested for drugs under Jarvis ?

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

We did all the safe things. Hired Norm Roberts to run a clean program.  Didn’t hire Tiny Morton which finished Lavin and resuscitated Willard and hired Anderson instead of Pitino. I am pretty sure this will be 22 seasons without a tournament win. We want to kick DePaul out of the Big East? We should look in the mirror.

I believe this narrative is one of the biggest myths in sju basketball lore. The notion that Roberts was hired to clean up the program is revisionist. At the time the only black mark on what was viewed as a spotless program occurred one night in Pittsburgh when the school had fired Jarvis and son, and didn't bother to even add interim staff to keep order. Kevin Clark didn't even have sufficient staff to do bed checks on the road.

The real reason he was hired was that after Fran and Jarvis, Harrington was sick of high paid prima donnas who were frankly a pain in the ass to be around.

Upon the announcement of Jarvis' firing, an athletic department employee quietly got up from his desk, walked over to junior's office, removed the nameplate from the door and without saying a word tossed it into the garbage to applause.

No, Roberts was hired because he is a polite engaging man who used all of his recruiting skills to sell Harrington that he was the right man and that s a Queens kid,SJU was his dream job. If I had to guess, I would say that Roberts rarely if ever attended a st. John's game in his life before coaching. But he did have recruiting skills and his best recruit was Harrington.

Good point. There were rumors with both Fran and Jarvis that they were looking for a bigger job while coaching at SJU. Harrington wanted someone who considered SJU the top job around. Anyone hired would have been expected to clean up things. 
In hindsight, it should have been McKillop. 

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

Not sure we'll be getting a new coach any time soon, but good thing Pitino disrespecting Auerbach doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

As far as Kresse goes, I find that once a guy's new school starts naming stuff after him, it gets harder to lure them away. 

I can’t believe this sentiment for Pitino. The man is a reprehensible sleaze that no major program wants to touch. Personal scandals, basketball scandals, and 70 years old. We have a good man and good quality coach right now who is trying to build us back up the right way during a chaotic few years for everyone. We finally have school leaders who want to substantially change our facilities. We need to give them all a chance to put it together. 

 

[section10]

Personal scandals, basketball scandals, and 70 years old.

as a gray panther, i resemble that remark.

 

[lawmanfan]

n/m

 

[beast of the east]

Beast - wasn't Reynolds arrested / charged for an attack on a female in a dorm and, Shaw arrested for drugs under Jarvis ?

Forgot about reynolds but remembered Shaw.   I think Shaw was selling small quantities of weed, which might not even be more than a ticket today.   Thanks for reminding me.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

I don’t recall a definite answer about John Kresse being interviewed for HC when the job opened up after Lou retired .   It seemed to me that Lou and the Powers then in Charge , Fr Harrington , etc had the job penciled in for Brian all along .     Fraschilla was a good choice after Brian , as he had gotten Manhattan to the NCAA during his time there .  Whatever one thinks about Fran’s style , he was a good Coach and Recruiter .  He got Artest , Barkley , Grant, Jessie , Bootsy , etc to be excellent players and Jarvis lucked into it with Fran’s players .                                               As for Fraschilla and Jarvis looking for greener pastures , Harrington and others , were kind of skinflints and underpaid what a BE Coach should be compensated . Why wouldn’t they look around ?   University Management must have thought they could get another Louie , whose loyalty and devotion to StJohn’s was  unparalleled .   Lou made far less than he should have for many years .                                                                       Once Kresse left for College of Charleston , where he built a very good mid tire Program , it was unlikely to get him back . Without a lot $$$ .     If you don’t know Charleston , SC it is a great City to live in and visit .   It isn’t called the “ Gem of the South,” for nothing . It has a lot going for it . 

 

[beast of the east]

I don’t recall a definite answer about John Kresse being interviewed for HC when the job opened up after Lou retired .   It seemed to me that Lou and the Powers then in Charge , Fr Harrington , etc had the job penciled in for Brian all along .     Fraschilla was a good choice after Brian , as he had gotten Manhattan to the NCAA during his time there .  Whatever one thinks about Fran’s style , he was a good Coach and Recruiter .  He got Artest , Barkley , Grant, Jessie , Bootsy , etc to be excellent players and Jarvis lucked into it with Fran’s players .                                               As for Fraschilla and Jarvis looking for greener pastures , Harrington and others , were kind of skinflints and underpaid what a BE Coach should be compensated . Why wouldn’t they look around ?   University Management must have thought they could get another Louie , whose loyalty and devotion to StJohn’s was  unparalleled .   Lou made far less than he should have for many years .                                                                       Once Kresse left for College of Charleston , where he built a very good mid tire Program , it was unlikely to get him back . Without a lot $$$ .     If you don’t know Charleston , SC it is a great City to live in and visit .   It isn’t called the “ Gem of the South,” for nothing . It has a lot going for it . 

Completely wrong about the job being slated for Mahoney.   He was the default when no one else emerged.   To my recollection in terms of anyone else, it never even came down to salary, high new york taxes, colder climate than half the country, etc.   There was just little interest from the type of candidate they were certain would be interested.   They didn't even bother to dig down into the mid major ranks for a replacement, which was probably a mistake.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

I don’t recall a definite answer about John Kresse being interviewed for HC when the job opened up after Lou retired .   It seemed to me that Lou and the Powers then in Charge , Fr Harrington , etc had the job penciled in for Brian all along .     Fraschilla was a good choice after Brian , as he had gotten Manhattan to the NCAA during his time there .  Whatever one thinks about Fran’s style , he was a good Coach and Recruiter .  He got Artest , Barkley , Grant, Jessie , Bootsy , etc to be excellent players and Jarvis lucked into it with Fran’s players .                                               As for Fraschilla and Jarvis looking for greener pastures , Harrington and others , were kind of skinflints and underpaid what a BE Coach should be compensated . Why wouldn’t they look around ?   University Management must have thought they could get another Louie , whose loyalty and devotion to StJohn’s was  unparalleled .   Lou made far less than he should have for many years .                                                                       Once Kresse left for College of Charleston , where he built a very good mid tire Program , it was unlikely to get him back . Without a lot $$$ .     If you don’t know Charleston , SC it is a great City to live in and visit .   It isn’t called the “ Gem of the South,” for nothing . It has a lot going for it . 

Completely wrong about the job being slated for Mahoney.   He was the default when no one else emerged.   To my recollection in terms of anyone else, it never even came down to salary, high new york taxes, colder climate than half the country, etc.   There was just little interest from the type of candidate they were certain would be interested.   They didn't even bother to dig down into the mid major ranks for a replacement, which was probably a mistake.                                       There were a lot of  Management mistakes made in the Fr Harrington Era .  For athletics and the school overall .    A indication of that being totally not understanding that the Coaching job after Lou wasn’t highly regarded .    I find it difficult to believe that Lou wasn’t in favor of  Mahoney and was delighted he became his successor .  Brian was a good Recruiter who couldn’t Coach a lick . Here or at Manhattan .  Beast , very likely you have inside info that most of us don’t but , as I recall Mahoney was generally supported by the BB fraternity for his years of service to Lou and because he was a great player at Manhattan back in the day .  After all , Brian was very much into that fraternity of BB insiders .  They liked him . Didn’t we all . At first . 

 

[beast of the east]

I don’t recall a definite answer about John Kresse being interviewed for HC when the job opened up after Lou retired .   It seemed to me that Lou and the Powers then in Charge , Fr Harrington , etc had the job penciled in for Brian all along .     Fraschilla was a good choice after Brian , as he had gotten Manhattan to the NCAA during his time there .  Whatever one thinks about Fran’s style , he was a good Coach and Recruiter .  He got Artest , Barkley , Grant, Jessie , Bootsy , etc to be excellent players and Jarvis lucked into it with Fran’s players .                                               As for Fraschilla and Jarvis looking for greener pastures , Harrington and others , were kind of skinflints and underpaid what a BE Coach should be compensated . Why wouldn’t they look around ?   University Management must have thought they could get another Louie , whose loyalty and devotion to StJohn’s was  unparalleled .   Lou made far less than he should have for many years .                                                                       Once Kresse left for College of Charleston , where he built a very good mid tire Program , it was unlikely to get him back . Without a lot $$$ .     If you don’t know Charleston , SC it is a great City to live in and visit .   It isn’t called the “ Gem of the South,” for nothing . It has a lot going for it . 

Completely wrong about the job being slated for Mahoney.   He was the default when no one else emerged.   To my recollection in terms of anyone else, it never even came down to salary, high new york taxes, colder climate than half the country, etc.   There was just little interest from the type of candidate they were certain would be interested.   They didn't even bother to dig down into the mid major ranks for a replacement, which was probably a mistake.                                       There were a lot of  Management mistakes made in the Fr Harrington Era .  For athletics and the school overall .    A indication of that being totally not understanding that the Coaching job after Lou wasn’t highly regarded .    I find it difficult to believe that Lou wasn’t in favor of  Mahoney and was delighted he became his successor .  Brian was a good Recruiter who couldn’t Coach a lick . Here or at Manhattan .  Beast , very likely you have inside info that most of us don’t but , as I recall Mahoney was generally supported by the BB fraternity for his years of service to Lou and because he was a great player at Manhattan back in the day .  After all , Brian was very much into that fraternity of BB insiders .  They liked him . Didn’t we all . At first . 

I believe the nice things said about Mahoney as coach were about as genuine as opponents saying Norm was a good coach. Not that Mahoney was disregarded as Roberts was by opposing coaches but I think it was a throwaway recommendation, as in "Brian carries the clipboard, he coaches as much as Looie. Give him a shot".

If you think about it, that was one of the first times that it was clear that we weren't the elite program we believed we were.

 

[L J S A]

Not sure we'll be getting a new coach any time soon, but good thing Pitino disrespecting Auerbach doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

As far as Kresse goes, I find that once a guy's new school starts naming stuff after him, it gets harder to lure them away. 

I can’t believe this sentiment for Pitino. The man is a reprehensible sleaze that no major program wants to touch. Personal scandals, basketball scandals, and 70 years old. We have a good man and good quality coach right now who is trying to build us back up the right way during a chaotic few years for everyone. We finally have school leaders who want to substantially change our facilities. We need to give them all a chance to put it together. 

Show me where I've said Anderson isn't a good man or a good coach, or that he should be fired.

And again, why would I give a rat's ass about Auerbach being disrespected by Pitino? 

 

[Knight]

Should change the thread’s title to “Cranky Old Guys Bitchin’.”

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Malik Sealy and Robert Werdann were  2 Highly tabled players when they entered St John’s . In fact , both might have been McD AA?   Werdann had a decent career but , not like Malik who was extraordinary . I forget who else was on that Team ? Jason Buchanan ? 

 

[austour]

The thing that's incredibly frustrating and the only reason why this thread keeps going on and on and on is that right now we're a very mediocre team with two of the best players to play for SJU in a long time. 

We have a window with Julian and Posh and it's closing fast. 

Louie saw it with Mullin and went all out to get Berry, even suing the NCAA. They went to the FF.

Louie had it with Sealy and didn't do much of anything to bolster that team. And they lost to Tulane. 

Jarvis had it with Hatten and we went to the NIT.

Maybe this team will turn it on from here on out and be memorable. Just not seeing any signs despite the Gtown drubbing.
 

Fraschilla added Metta to Felipe and Zendon and lost to Detroit Mercy.  But for Felipe and Zendon, who didn't even have a single winning season their first 3 years that was probably an acceptable way to finish.

 

[Mullins Revenge]

Win tonight and CMA is back in our good graces.  Lose tonight and there will be more Drew Valentine posts.

 

[MainMan]

Malik Sealy and Robert Werdann were  2 Highly tabled players when they entered St John’s . In fact , both might have been McD AA?   Werdann had a decent career but , not like Malik who was extraordinary . I forget who else was on that Team ? Jason Buchanan ? 

Buchanan and Sproling. Werdann was a serviceable big man, but never lived up to the high school hoopla.
They had a fantastic run as juniors in the NCAA. 
But while Malik was at SJU there was a bonanza of top NYC talent that SJU missed out on: Jamal Mashburn, Derrick Phelps, Brian Reese, Khalid Reeves, Adrian Autry, Conrad McCray, Jamal Faulkner, Kenny Anderson. 
Louie needed another elite talent on that team and never got it.