Old Guys Talking Hoops

[monte]

 

I admire your honesty PDJ. It's
refreshing after having to weed through all the self riotousness and hypocrisy on this board. 

If Juwan Howard smacked himself in the head, and his own fans attacked him in a mob, would that be self-riotous?   /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

Ok you guys convinced me, I'm going to advocate cheating to Shanley, and the establishment of a St. John's sports book.    Our guys miss a lot of free throws and wide open shots as it is.   No reason we can't make a few dollars off of it by playing the spread.  It's actually a pretty good idea.    In fact, it's proven to be more reliable than paying your own players to win - we just pay other teams players to lose.

I did not say whether or not I agreed with Pharma, all I said was that I appreciated his honesty. I've already made my feelings about double standards and hypocrisy in the church, and at SJU, well known. I'm not going to rehash them yet again. I'll only say this, if SJU is looking to run a program that is ethically above reproach, then I don't see any way we ever see the top 25 consistently again. If that's good enough  for the majority of the fan base, so be it. It'll never be good enough for me.   It's a dirty business and everyone stretches the rules to the umpteenth degree. So,
for instance, if another Tiny Morton situation comes up, and we don't take advantage of it, shame  on us IMO. There's legal and there's ethical. Tough to succeed being completely ethical in a completely unethical business. Anyone can loose playing it the right way. It's winning playing the right way that's nearly impossible at our level. 

 

[NCJohnnie]

Hope we win tonight so this thread can stay on the topic of the benefits of cheating coaches

 

[beast of the east]

All I know is that it is highly doubtful that CMA would put the program into a situation that Michigan is in with Juwan Howard--regardless of whether and how Howard is disciplined.  That is a good thing for a school that holds on to ideals as a university, and not just as a basketball program.

Along with about 350 other D1 coaches.




 

Not limited to only physical altercations.  I doubt we will ever hear of any recruiting or booster (because we don't really have any compared to other schools) irregularities in this program.  I'd rather have a relatively clean program than a Bruce Pearl, Sean Miller, etc. Bobby Knight -type led program.

I’d much rather win than run a clean program. I’d take any of those guys over Anderson and it’s not even close. 

In surveys, pharmacists are always listed as among the most trusted professionals.   It's slipped in recent years to 5th on the survey.   I wondered why, but then you read things that some pharmacists have done.

- short count pills (very common illicit act.  No harm crime. the insurance company pays, and at the cost of expensive drugs, you can pocket $100 or more by short counting, or more if narcotics are swiped for sale to users)
- overcharging for prescriptions - (a limited number of drugs have a published prescription price on a big poster in some pharmacies.  Especially for generics, the patient may never know)
- filling opiate prescriptions for suspected abusers - (another no harm crime.  After all, they are just going to get their drugs somewhere)
- filling prescriptions with expired drugs (no harm again.  The medications are probably still good if only out of date for up to a year, but even then it's not like they hurt you.  They are just less effective)

Because this is an Anderson thread I would say I hope he gets his prescriptions from an honest pharmacist, although there are some that would rather make more money than run a clean pharmacy.

With a much older user base on redmen.com, it would be a good idea to read this list, because it's a common thing illicit pharmacists do, especially those who are independent owners.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

It should be noted that Bobby Knight ran a very clean program .  He did go over the top with Officials and some Players , including his own son . But , never a cheating scandal at IU . 

 

[beast of the east]

 

I admire your honesty PDJ. It's
refreshing after having to weed through all the self riotousness and hypocrisy on this board. 

If Juwan Howard smacked himself in the head, and his own fans attacked him in a mob, would that be self-riotous?   /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

Ok you guys convinced me, I'm going to advocate cheating to Shanley, and the establishment of a St. John's sports book.    Our guys miss a lot of free throws and wide open shots as it is.   No reason we can't make a few dollars off of it by playing the spread.  It's actually a pretty good idea.    In fact, it's proven to be more reliable than paying your own players to win - we just pay other teams players to lose.

I did not say whether or not I agreed with Pharma, all I said was that I appreciated his honesty. I've already made my feelings about double standards and hypocrisy in the church, and at SJU, well known. I'm not going to rehash them again. I'll only say this, if SJU is looking to run a program that is ethically above reproach, then I don't see any way we ever see the top 25 consistently again. If that's good enough  for the majority of the fan base, so be it. It'll never be good enough for me.   It's a dirty business and everyone stretches the rules to the umpteenth degree. So,
for instance, if another Tiny Morton situation comes up, and we don't take advantage of it, shame  on us IMO. There's legal and there's ethical. Tough to succeed being completely ethical in a completely unethical business. Anyone can loose playing it the right way. It's winning playing the right way that's nearly impossible at our level. 

Winning dirty really isn't winning, is it?   

Why did Jarvis want to cut ties with AAU programs?   There was a common practice of AAU coaches with ties to top players asking to be paid speakers fees at basketball camps run by college coaches, and assorted other asks to be paid to deliver top players.   Did all AAU coaches do that?  Of course not - we have one on here who I believe only looked out for the best interests of the kids he coached.  To me that's refreshing, not admiring someone who said he'd rather win by cheating.   Is it really refreshing to say someone is honest in advocating dishonesty?  Come on, do you really believe the stuff you write?

It's really a dumb topic in my opinion, because with the current administration in place, cheating isn't going to happen.   I only know one of the coaches personally, and I don't think he would do dirty stuff, and I believe the other coaches are clean also.  

The whole damned discussion is just a distraction on the day of our biggest game in quite some time, as things are starting to get very serious.

 

[paultzman]

Beast of the East post=459468PharmDJohnnie11 post=459449mm52 post=459383bamafan post=459336mm52 post=459333All I know is that it is highly doubtful that CMA would put the program into a situation that Michigan is in with Juwan Howard--regardless of whether and how Howard is disciplined.  That is a good thing for a school that holds on to ideals as a university, and not just as a basketball program.Along with about 350 other D1 coaches.





 Not limited to only physical altercations.  I doubt we will ever hear of any recruiting or booster (because we don't really have any compared to other schools) irregularities in this program.  I'd rather have a relatively clean program than a Bruce Pearl, Sean Miller, etc. Bobby Knight -type led program.I’d much rather win than run a clean program. I’d take any of those guys over Anderson and it’s not even close. In surveys, pharmacists are always listed as among the most trusted professionals.   It's slipped in recent years to 5th on the survey.   I wondered why, but then you read things that some pharmacists have done.

- short count pills (very common illicit act.  No harm crime. the insurance company pays, and at the cost of expensive drugs, you can pocket $100 or more by short counting, or more if narcotics are swiped for sale to users)
- overcharging for prescriptions - (a limited number of drugs have a published prescription price on a big poster in some pharmacies.  Especially for generics, the patient may never know)
- filling opiate prescriptions for suspected abusers - (another no harm crime.  After all, they are just going to get their drugs somewhere)
- filling prescriptions with expired drugs (no harm again.  The medications are probably still good if only out of date for up to a year, but even then it's not like they hurt you.  They are just less effective)

Because this is an Anderson thread I would say I hope he gets his prescriptions from an honest pharmacist, although there are some that would rather make more money than run a clean pharmacy.

With a much older user base on redmen.com, it would be a good idea to read this list, because it's a common thing illicit pharmacists do, especially those who are independent owners.

[attachment=2478]0B30CECE-BC1C-4A8C-A574-C7E5F1EBA87B.gif[/attachment]

 

[monte]

 

I admire your honesty PDJ. It's
refreshing after having to weed through all the self riotousness and hypocrisy on this board. 

If Juwan Howard smacked himself in the head, and his own fans attacked him in a mob, would that be self-riotous?   /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

Ok you guys convinced me, I'm going to advocate cheating to Shanley, and the establishment of a St. John's sports book.    Our guys miss a lot of free throws and wide open shots as it is.   No reason we can't make a few dollars off of it by playing the spread.  It's actually a pretty good idea.    In fact, it's proven to be more reliable than paying your own players to win - we just pay other teams players to lose.

I did not say whether or not I agreed with Pharma, all I said was that I appreciated his honesty. I've already made my feelings about double standards and hypocrisy in the church, and at SJU, well known. I'm not going to rehash them again. I'll only say this, if SJU is looking to run a program that is ethically above reproach, then I don't see any way we ever see the top 25 consistently again. If that's good enough  for the majority of the fan base, so be it. It'll never be good enough for me.   It's a dirty business and everyone stretches the rules to the umpteenth degree. So,
for instance, if another Tiny Morton situation comes up, and we don't take advantage of it, shame  on us IMO. There's legal and there's ethical. Tough to succeed being completely ethical in a completely unethical business. Anyone can loose playing it the right way. It's winning playing the right way that's nearly impossible at our level. 

Winning dirty really isn't winning, is it?   

Why did Jarvis want to cut ties with AAU programs?   There was a common practice of AAU coaches with ties to top players asking to be paid speakers fees at basketball camps run by college coaches, and assorted other asks to be paid to deliver top players.   Did all AAU coaches do that?  Of course not - we have one on here who I believe only looked out for the best interests of the kids he coached.  To me that's refreshing, not admiring someone who said he'd rather win by cheating.   Is it really refreshing to say someone is honest in advocating dishonesty?  Come on, do you really believe the stuff you write?

It's really a dumb topic in my opinion, because with the current administration in place, cheating isn't going to happen.   I only know one of the coaches personally, and I don't think he would do dirty stuff, and I believe the other coaches are clean also.  

The whole damned discussion is just a distraction on the day of our biggest game in quite some time, as things are starting to get very serious.

If it's such a dumb topic, why do you continue to engage in the conversation? Besides, who says that tonight's game is the only subject that we should be discussing today? All topic on this board are open for discussion at any time. As I said before Beast, you and I could not be further apart on this subject. While I don't agree with you, I do respect your opinion. You ought to learn how to have that same kind of respect for others' opinions. 

 

[monte]

Uconn fans storm the court?  Nova is a 7 loss basketball team.  I mean, should we storm tomorrow night if we win?

I get called old every time I comment of something like this, so I'll sit this one out /media/kunena/emoticons/grin.png

I get it if you knock off the #1 seed in the country with a big upset.  Uconn was favored tonight.  Nova is not even in 1st place in the conference.

Johnny fans....storm the court if we beat creighton tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone know when the last time the court was stormed at Carnesecca Arena?

That would be quite the site; a bunch of old men in walkers storming the court lol 

 

[Knight]

This topic has gone off the tracks.  

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

 Winning dirty really isn't winning, is it?   

Why did Jarvis want to cut ties with AAU programs?   There was a common practice of AAU coaches with ties to top players asking to be paid speakers fees at basketball camps run by college coaches, and assorted other asks to be paid to deliver top players.   Did all AAU coaches do that?  Of course not - we have one on here who I believe only looked out for the best interests of the kids he coached.  To me that's refreshing, not admiring someone who said he'd rather win by cheating.   Is it really refreshing to say someone is honest in advocating dishonesty?  Come on, do you really believe the stuff you write?

It's really a dumb topic in my opinion, because with the current administration in place, cheating isn't going to happen.   I only know one of the coaches personally, and I don't think he would do dirty stuff, and I believe the other coaches are clean also.  

The whole damned discussion is just a distraction on the day of our biggest game in quite some time, as things are starting to get very serious.

If it's such a dumb topic, why do you continue to engage in the conversation? Besides, who says that tonight's game is the only subject that we should be discussing today? All topic on this board are open for discussion at any time. As I said before Beast, you and I could not be further apart on this subject. While I don't agree with you, I do respect your opinion. You ought to learn how to have that same kind of respect for others' opinions. 

He should respect an opinion to favor acting unethically? I don't respect that opinion and I wouldn't expect him to either.

 

[bucketshardy]

 

Johnny fans....storm the court if we beat creighton tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone know when the last time the court was stormed at Carnesecca Arena?

That would be quite the site; a bunch of old men in walkers storming the court lol 

Not sure i want the Optics out there of our Students only taking up 25% of the court during a "storming" lol

 

[section10]

years ago there was a mini series about bobby knight and walkons. every year bobby takes one walkon after a lengthy tryout. the series followed one such walkon tryout. it was well done. it painted bobby in a loving, caring light. i believe if you watch that series, your opinion of bobby would soften up. i just dont - gray panther moment - remember the name of the series.   
on the base of my walker i have 4 basketballs.
i get my meds through the VA. how can a government worker not be 100% honest.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

I remember a time when St. John's fans tried to storm the Court at MSG, and the security was locked down so tight, they stopped it from happening, and it was a bit ugly with the security guards (and some burly ushers) pushing and shoving the kids back off the Court. Some of the students were knocked to the ground.

Don't recall the game, maybe when we beat #1(?) Pitt that Saturday when Hardy almost stepped out of bounds.

 

[beast of the east]

While I don't agree with you, I do respect your opinion. You ought to learn how to have that same kind of respect for others' opinions. 

Challenging diverse and sometimes opposing opinions and disrespecting a poster are two different things.   Certainly, there is no one I've conversed with more off line on a number of serious and personal topics.   I believe you know how much I like and respect you.   Considering you feel I am disrespecting your opinions; I will try to be a little more careful in the future if I refute them.

 

[bucketshardy]

I remember a time when St. John's fans tried to storm the Court at MSG, and the security was locked down so tight, they stopped it from happening, and it was a bit ugly with the security guards (and some burly ushers) pushing and shoving the kids back off the Court. Some of the students were knocked to the ground.

Don't recall the game, maybe when we beat #1(?) Pitt that Saturday when Hardy almost stepped out of bounds.

Best atmosphere I've ever experienced at MSG (missed the Golden years) - but Pitt was #4

 

[paultzman]

This topic has gone off the tracks.  

A tradition

 

[beast of the east]

This topic has gone off the tracks.  

A tradition

 

[Knight]

This topic has gone off the tracks.  

A tradition

Ok, tradition is on topic. /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

 

[room112]

I remember a time when St. John's fans tried to storm the Court at MSG, and the security was locked down so tight, they stopped it from happening, and it was a bit ugly with the security guards (and some burly ushers) pushing and shoving the kids back off the Court. Some of the students were knocked to the ground.

Don't recall the game, maybe when we beat #1(?) Pitt that Saturday when Hardy almost stepped out of bounds.

I was at the NIT Final in 2003, and I got to storm the court at MSG along with other St. Johns fans after we won. That was pretty cool. But I do remember security trying to stop people, and some individuals being singled out and harassed.

 

[nysj144]

I remember a time when St. John's fans tried to storm the Court at MSG, and the security was locked down so tight, they stopped it from happening, and it was a bit ugly with the security guards (and some burly ushers) pushing and shoving the kids back off the Court. Some of the students were knocked to the ground.

Don't recall the game, maybe when we beat #1(?) Pitt that Saturday when Hardy almost stepped out of bounds.

Best atmosphere I've ever experienced at MSG (missed the Golden years) - but Pitt was #4