Old Guys Talking Hoops

[RedStormNC]

[URL]https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-04-30-1992121161-story.html[/URL]

The Rev. Donald Harrington, the St. John's president, received a unanimous recommendation of Mahoney from the nine-member search committee, and said he informed Mahoney of his promotion in a phone call Monday about 9 p.m. Harrington declined to offer details of Mahoney's contract, but it is believed to be a three-year rollover deal, with an annual compensation package of between $200,000 and $300,000."I feared that if we didn't have a contract, that would be seen as a lack of confidence in Brian and that I could drop him after a year," said Harrington, who noted that Carnesecca didn't have a contract.

Harrington said that three candidates, including Mahoney, "were still in it until Monday morning." One of those candidates, believed to be Florida State's Pat Kennedy, eliminated himself from contention. The other, a coach whose name Harrington said never surfaced -- California's Lou Campanelli? -- was passed over by the committee. 

Mahoney was the only coach to meet formally with the committee, but Harrington said that 10 coaches were contacted. "My understanding was that a formal interview would take place only when we were 99 percent sure that person was the person," Harrington said. "But there were serious conversations."

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Remember who the President of St John’s was at the time Lou Retired , Fr Harrington .   Plus ,,Lou seemed to endorse Brian to be his successor and it worked for 1 year, when he was BE Coach of the Year . Brian was a good Assistant but ,,poor Head Coach .  He had been fired at Manhattan , his Alma Mater , after going 4-21 or close to it , in his last season there .  And , he was among the best Players ever at Manhattan .      I think the consensus of College BB Coaches who might have interest in succeeding Lou wete the negatives .    Among them , Lower than standard Pay , decades of Skin Flint Management by the Vincentians and the Board and the challenge of succeeding Lou , a legend . Plus , even then , facilities were below standard . NY Taxes aren’t a impetus either . 

 

[monte]

While watching Davidson play Richmond a few nights ago, I couldn't help but think about how we likely would have avoided 20+ years of failed coaching hires and misery,  had we hired Mckillop when we had the chance, twice. As for Pitino, I was not on board with hiring him originally, but have since changed my tune. I mean, the way I see it, it we are going to welcome Jayson Williams back in to the fold after what he did, certainly Pitino deserves a second chance. Seems that he's doing his penance at Iona. Having said that, we're at least 2-3 years away from a coaching change, so I'll continue to support CMA until that day comes. 

 

[GardenCity62]

In the history of SJU basketball up to the hiring of Lavin it was a well known fact that SJU paid fifty per cent on the dollar and living in NYC was higher than anywhere else so few reputable coaches applied. Just another way the board has manipulated the facts over the years to protect themselves.

 

[Spocky Ramone]

While watching Davidson play Richmond a few nights ago, I couldn't help but think about how we likely would have avoided 20+ years of failed coaching hires and misery,  had we hired Mckillop when we had the chance, twice. As for Pitino, I was not on board with hiring him originally, but have since changed my tune. I mean, the way I see it, it we are going to welcome Jayson Williams back in to the fold after what he did, certainly Pitino deserves a second chance. Seems that he's doing his penance at Iona. Having said that, we're at least 2-3 years away from a coaching change, so I'll continue to support CMA until that day comes. 

Right there with you Monte, but in 2-3 years Willard will be at Maryland and Pitino will be at Seton Hall.

 

[monte]

While watching Davidson play Richmond a few nights ago, I couldn't help but think about how we likely would have avoided 20+ years of failed coaching hires and misery,  had we hired Mckillop when we had the chance, twice. As for Pitino, I was not on board with hiring him originally, but have since changed my tune. I mean, the way I see it, it we are going to welcome Jayson Williams back in to the fold after what he did, certainly Pitino deserves a second chance. Seems that he's doing his penance at Iona. Having said that, we're at least 2-3 years away from a coaching change, so I'll continue to support CMA until that day comes. 

Right there with you Monte, but in 2-3 years Willard will be at Maryland and Pitino will be at Seton Hall.

If the opportunity presents itself to hire one of the greatest coaches in college basketball history, and we pass on that opportunity yet again, then we deserve to be relegated to the scrap heap of once-great college basketball programs 

 

[beast of the east]

Beast was John Kresse offered the job in 1992? Did he even interview back then ? 

John Kresse is n icon in Charleston, with the arena named after him.  My vague recollection is that by 1992, with more than a dozen years in Charleston he quickly took his name out of contention, having quite a good situation there.

 

[beast of the east]

I honestly don't even know how anyone can debate if Anderson is the guy. If anyone wants to direct their anger anywhere, it should be at the school, administration and board who allowed this once legendary basketball team to fall into such mediocrity with their mom and pop approach. 

By all indications, Mike Anderson is working hard and doing the best he possibly can. What more can you realistically ask? Do I need to remind everyone that nobody wanted this job during the last coaching search? Do we need to list all of the reasons again as to why it isn't a desirable job?

I'm not happy with the results this year either, but I'm certainly not blaming Anderson. 

Some schools have had time pass them by.

Do you know that Looie had a deal never to be paid more than the university president? I think his maximum salary was $125k per year. When he left to coach the Nets, his replacement, Frank Mulzoff was paid what experienced faculty made, $17,500 per year.

Just 15 years prior, st John's single handedly jumpstarted the ACC, by refusing a $2,000 raise to Frank McGuire from about $5,000 per year.

In the beginning post Looie we paid a competitive salary to Mahoney given his lack of experience 400k.

Two coaches later SJU doubled that to bring in GW's ( and Patrick Ewings hs coach) mike Jarvis.

Since Lavin we've paid big salaries but over that long stretch ignored everything else.

Shanley is the first president who appears to have a handle on what it takes, cragg the first AD since Manetta.

I guarantee you though, if fans don't ante up, we will never be a competitive program on an equal footing with top programs.

It's interesting Beast. The way I view the current status of the St John's basketball program, it's almost like a series of misfortunes/bad luck over the past 2+ decades have led to where we are now.

Imagine if Jarvis had taken the Wizards job? The decision for him to stay cascaded into him bring terrible and getting fired, leading to the Pittsburgh incident, and 6 years of Norm who was never really qualified.

The Lavin hire was a major league move. But imagine if else never got cancer? That and seemingly other personal life issues impacted his tenure here. Who knows if those things never happen, maybe he's still here.

The Mullin hire as we know was just poor decision making.

My point is, if a few things could have broken differently, we could have built up years of sustained success, which in turn lead to more money flowing into the program. Right now it feels like we're trying to push a massive boulder uphill.
———
Some bad luck, but a lot of bad decision making by the higher ups.
Stemming  back from  forcing Lapchick to retire, not retaining McGuire, and the list goes on. I don’t understand why all the top coached turned us down after Lou  we were a consistent top program then  Maybe the board of trustees didn’t want to pay an appropriate  salary.



 

I believe in Lapchick's day, university policy, as well as many universities and many businesses, had a mandatory retirement age.  It wasn't a special rule made by SJU, it was just following policy with no exclusion made for a coach.

It's funny, today you cannot retire someone at any age.   There are people working Ft jobs in their 70s and companies have to be very careful not to terminate them for fear of lawsuit.  As a result. they are much more protected than an underperfoming 45 year old.

McGuire made the case to SJU that he needed more money because he had a sick kid.    It may have been true, but one of the first rules of salary negotiations that I learned is never to make a case based on what you need, make a case based on your value.   I believe SJU thought he was bluffing as back then North Carolina was considered the boondocks.    In any event, McGuire went there and changed the course of NYC college basketball by recruiting top talent from the area to play for hm.

SJU was always a low budget school.  Most of us older alumni bitch about that, but most of us, myself included, going there was only possible because tuition was dirt cheap.   How can we expect that money we were never charged should have been used to build bigger facilities hire more expensive coaches, etc.  To top it off, we even bitch about decision makers on the board, who actually have donated a lot of money, made in what they felt was the best interests of the university.

 

[beast of the east]

While watching Davidson play Richmond a few nights ago, I couldn't help but think about how we likely would have avoided 20+ years of failed coaching hires and misery,  had we hired Mckillop when we had the chance, twice. As for Pitino, I was not on board with hiring him originally, but have since changed my tune. I mean, the way I see it, it we are going to welcome Jayson Williams back in to the fold after what he did, certainly Pitino deserves a second chance. Seems that he's doing his penance at Iona. Having said that, we're at least 2-3 years away from a coaching change, so I'll continue to support CMA until that day comes. 

Good post, but just keep in mind that Jayson did his penance in a serious way - time in prison, settling a suit with the man's family that he recklessly killed, getting sober, and starting a successful drug rehab facility in southern Florida to help others.   It's not exactly like he did nothing to redeem himself.   Pitino always denied the things he did, to this day.

 

[Mullins Revenge]

Beast was John Kresse offered the job in 1992? Did he even interview back then ? 

The Cobra Kai folded after the 1989 All Valley Tournament so John Kreese was definitely available.  I think his No Mercy tactics would have been great for our program.

 

[19854ever]

LOL

 

[fuchsia]

While watching Davidson play Richmond a few nights ago, I couldn't help but think about how we likely would have avoided 20+ years of failed coaching hires and misery,  had we hired Mckillop when we had the chance, twice. As for Pitino, I was not on board with hiring him originally, but have since changed my tune. I mean, the way I see it, it we are going to welcome Jayson Williams back in to the fold after what he did, certainly Pitino deserves a second chance. Seems that he's doing his penance at Iona. Having said that, we're at least 2-3 years away from a coaching change, so I'll continue to support CMA until that day comes. 

Good post, but just keep in mind that Jayson did his penance in a serious way - time in prison, settling a suit with the man's family that he recklessly killed, getting sober, and starting a successful drug rehab facility in southern Florida to help others.   It's not exactly like he did nothing to redeem himself.   Pitino always denied the things he did, to this day.

I was told personally by a HoF Celtic that Pitino disrespected Red Auerbach while he was the Celtic coach.  I associate disrespect with Pitino and think that given the NCAA history of targeting STJ, a Pitino hire would be like offering your home to be used as a munitions storage locker, knowing full well that sooner or later there will be incoming fire.

 

[room112]

While watching Davidson play Richmond a few nights ago, I couldn't help but think about how we likely would have avoided 20+ years of failed coaching hires and misery,  had we hired Mckillop when we had the chance, twice. As for Pitino, I was not on board with hiring him originally, but have since changed my tune. I mean, the way I see it, it we are going to welcome Jayson Williams back in to the fold after what he did, certainly Pitino deserves a second chance. Seems that he's doing his penance at Iona. Having said that, we're at least 2-3 years away from a coaching change, so I'll continue to support CMA until that day comes. 

Good post, but just keep in mind that Jayson did his penance in a serious way - time in prison, settling a suit with the man's family that he recklessly killed, getting sober, and starting a successful drug rehab facility in southern Florida to help others.   It's not exactly like he did nothing to redeem himself.   Pitino always denied the things he did, to this day.

And that's exactly it. I'm all for giving second chances, but to me Pitino has an ego that would never allow him to truthfully show remorse for anything he's done wrong. In his eyes he's the victim.

Plus he's about to turn 70. Who knows how desperate he'd be to achieve immediate success wherever he landed.

 

[RedStormNC]

As for Pitino disrespecting Auerbach. Don't know if words said in person, but Pitino took heat when he took over and Auerbach was demoted from his President title. 

 

[austour]

It's interesting Beast. The way I view the current status of the St John's basketball program, it's almost like a series of misfortunes/bad luck over the past 2+ decades have led to where we are now.

Imagine if Jarvis had taken the Wizards job? The decision for him to stay cascaded into him bring terrible and getting fired, leading to the Pittsburgh incident, and 6 years of Norm who was never really qualified.

The Lavin hire was a major league move. But imagine if else never got cancer? That and seemingly other personal life issues impacted his tenure here. Who knows if those things never happen, maybe he's still here.

The Mullin hire as we know was just poor decision making.

My point is, if a few things could have broken differently, we could have built up years of sustained success, which in turn lead to more money flowing into the program. Right now it feels like we're trying to push a massive boulder uphill.

You can go all the way back to forcing Joe Lapchick to retire and missing out on Lew Alcindor as a result!

 

Some would say you make your own luck. 

 

[monte]

It's interesting Beast. The way I view the current status of the St John's basketball program, it's almost like a series of misfortunes/bad luck over the past 2+ decades have led to where we are now.

Imagine if Jarvis had taken the Wizards job? The decision for him to stay cascaded into him bring terrible and getting fired, leading to the Pittsburgh incident, and 6 years of Norm who was never really qualified.

The Lavin hire was a major league move. But imagine if else never got cancer? That and seemingly other personal life issues impacted his tenure here. Who knows if those things never happen, maybe he's still here.

The Mullin hire as we know was just poor decision making.

My point is, if a few things could have broken differently, we could have built up years of sustained success, which in turn lead to more money flowing into the program. Right now it feels like we're trying to push a massive boulder uphill.

You can go all the way back to forcing Joe Lapchick to retire and missing out on Lew Alcindor as a result!


 

Some would say you make your own luck. 

Possibly the wisest thing you've ever said 

 

[L J S A]

Not sure we'll be getting a new coach any time soon, but good thing Pitino disrespecting Auerbach doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

As far as Kresse goes, I find that once a guy's new school starts naming stuff after him, it gets harder to lure them away. 

 

[DaTiger]

I'm hoping the blowout win over Georgetown will put an end to this topic or at least take some wind out of its sail. 

Mike Anderson is the best coach we've had since Lou C.  Bang, I said it.... I know, there's 82 pages of negatives suggesting I might be wrong.  I don't mean to offend, but switching coaches after every losing season is not the formula for success....after a 30 year sample size, SJU has proven that.

When Mike took over, every aspect of the program needed to be overhauled.  The job is not done, but SJU is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was after Coach Mullin or Coach Lavin left it.  Imagine if the topic was:  What can Redmen.com fans do to improve the program? If we got 82 pages of constructive ideas and refinements, we could build Rome.  Oh wait, some of the 82 pages would have to include the usual wise cracks and off topic comments, maybe Rome is out.  How great would it be if Redmen.com posters might actually contribute to improving the basketball program?  

One last point  Imagine how you would feel, if on your employer's web site, there was a topic asking if "(your name) - is he really the guy?"  Would that endear you to your employer?  I think most of you would be long gone.  What happens if Mike gets an offer from another university????  Other programs would take this guy in a second.  Then who do we get?  Beg the coach from Hofstra, maybe the coach at Pace?  Promote from within?

Have at it....

Best,

SK

 

[beast of the east]

I'm not for hiring Pitino, but regrettably because arguably he is the very best coach of his generation, or at the very least ranks way up there with the very best.

To his defense though, he has done a lot of charitable good things that do count for something in my book.  Just not enough to get a better bang for the buck, pun intended.

 

[mm52]

Good post by SK, with which I largely agree.  And to put this thread in perspective, it was started after the Kansas loss, after CMA was criticized (unjustifiably in my view) for giving champ a rest to take advantage of an upcoming media timeout.