Old Guys Talking Hoops

[BrooklynRed]

Some of the memories are: Good...........Like Nedicks!  (thanks Marty Glickman)

 

[SJU85]

Was August Martin formerly Andrew Jackson?

We don't usually think of Bob Cousy as a NYC guy, but he went to Jackson, before I was born.

No, August Martin was Woodrow Wilson but the name was changed in the early 70’s.  Andrew Jackson is now Campus Magnet and has been split into three schools on the one campus.

Andrew Jackson was also where Rob “Tree” Cornegy and Boo Harvey went.
 

 

[beast of the east]

Was August Martin formerly Andrew Jackson?

We don't usually think of Bob Cousy as a NYC guy, but he went to Jackson, before I was born.

No, August Martin was Woodrow Wilson but the name was changed in the early 70’s.  Andrew Jackson is now Campus Magnet and has been split into three schools on the one campus.

Andrew Jackson was also where Rob “Tree” Cornegy and Boo Harvey went.

 

Thanks for that. Wasnt jackson across from Baisley Park? Dangerous place.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Was August Martin formerly Andrew Jackson?

We don't usually think of Bob Cousy as a NYC guy, but he went to Jackson, before I was born.

Andrew Jackson became Campus Magnet High School after it closed which is just a bunch of smaller schools that share the same building and usually the same athletic teams. Boo Harvey was Andrew Jackson's all time leading scorer.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I always think of Cousy as I think a Sunnyside, Queens guy, just like I think of Tommy Heinshohn as a Jersey City guy. Two locals who belonged in a SJU uniform, but got away to Holy Cross College, winning a National Championship there. Why didn't those guys go to St. John's ???? we were in our heyday of competing at the highest levels year in, year out.

 

 

[GardenCity62]

Bob Cousy wrote in his autobiography that he went away to college to escape a problem in his home life. He was disenchanted at Holy Cross after his freshman year and wrote Lapchick asking him if he would accept him as a transfer. Lapchick wrote him back encouraging Cousy to stay at Holy Cross which he did.

 

[beast of the east]

Bob Cousy wrote in his autobiography that he went away to college to escape a problem in his home life. He was disenchanted at Holy Cross after his freshman year and wrote Lapchick asking him if he would accept him as a transfer. Lapchick wrote him back encouraging Cousy to stay at Holy Cross which he did. Moo

Let's tear that statue down.

 

[IDRAFT]

Bob Cousy wrote in his autobiography that he went away to college to escape a problem in his home life. He was disenchanted at Holy Cross after his freshman year and wrote Lapchick asking him if he would accept him as a transfer. Lapchick wrote him back encouraging Cousy to stay at Holy Cross which he did.

Cousy in college was before my time, as was Lapchick at SJU. But I also read that story and was so taken by it that I have repeated it to friends as an example of how different things were. I can't imagine a coach in America doing that now.

And not to trigger any of you but I think it's also fair to say no school in the country would force out a coach and cost themselves Lew Alcindor in 2021.

 

[SJU85]

Was August Martin formerly Andrew Jackson?

We don't usually think of Bob Cousy as a NYC guy, but he went to Jackson, before I was born.

No, August Martin was Woodrow Wilson but the name was changed in the early 70’s.  Andrew Jackson is now Campus Magnet and has been split into three schools on the one campus.

Andrew Jackson was also where Rob “Tree” Cornegy and Boo Harvey went.


 

Thanks for that. Wasnt jackson across from Baisley Park? Dangerous place.

No August Martin was across from Baisley Park.  The school was not bad the four years I was there (Jackson has by far a worst reputation) but you could tell things were starting to get a little rougher with the freshman class my senior year.  The school had additions to the building and the freshman and sophomore classes combines probably contained 70% more kids than the junior and senior classes my senior year.  The sophomores weren't too bad but the freshman were out of control.

As far as Baisley Park, it was fine in the area near the school however you didn't want to venture to far into the park.

 

 

[Section3]

Was August Martin formerly Andrew Jackson?

We don't usually think of Bob Cousy as a NYC guy, but he went to Jackson, before I was born.

No, August Martin was Woodrow Wilson but the name was changed in the early 70’s.  Andrew Jackson is now Campus Magnet and has been split into three schools on the one campus.

Andrew Jackson was also where Rob “Tree” Cornegy and Boo Harvey went.



 

Thanks for that. Wasnt jackson across from Baisley Park? Dangerous place.

No August Martin was across from Baisley Park.  The school was not bad the four years I was there (Jackson has by far a worst reputation) but you could tell things were starting to get a little rougher with the freshman class my senior year.  The school had additions to the building and the freshman and sophomore classes combines probably contained 70% more kids than the junior and senior classes my senior year.  The sophomores weren't too bad but the freshman were out of control.

As far as Baisley Park, it was fine in the area near the school however you didn't want to venture to far into the park.


 

August Martin had a good center who joined Bernie and Ernie at Tennessee

 

[bamafan]

Was August Martin formerly Andrew Jackson?

We don't usually think of Bob Cousy as a NYC guy, but he went to Jackson, before I was born.

No, August Martin was Woodrow Wilson but the name was changed in the early 70’s.  Andrew Jackson is now Campus Magnet and has been split into three schools on the one campus.

Andrew Jackson was also where Rob “Tree” Cornegy and Boo Harvey went.




 

Thanks for that. Wasnt jackson across from Baisley Park? Dangerous place.

No August Martin was across from Baisley Park.  The school was not bad the four years I was there (Jackson has by far a worst reputation) but you could tell things were starting to get a little rougher with the freshman class my senior year.  The school had additions to the building and the freshman and sophomore classes combines probably contained 70% more kids than the junior and senior classes my senior year.  The sophomores weren't too bad but the freshman were out of control.

As far as Baisley Park, it was fine in the area near the school however you didn't want to venture to far into the park.



 

August Martin had a good center who joined Bernie and Ernie at Tennessee

Think his name was Chatman a 6'9 C who was supposed to be at least good for put backs and rebounding. Came to many of our games and thought was we had a good chance at him. Of course there were rampant rumors on campus that Ernie was going to transfer back to St. J's.

 

[panther2]

Was August Martin formerly Andrew Jackson?

We don't usually think of Bob Cousy as a NYC guy, but he went to Jackson, before I was born.

No, August Martin was Woodrow Wilson but the name was changed in the early 70’s.  Andrew Jackson is now Campus Magnet and has been split into three schools on the one campus.

Andrew Jackson was also where Rob “Tree” Cornegy and Boo Harvey went.



 

Thanks for that. Wasnt jackson across from Baisley Park? Dangerous place.

 

Andrew Jackson, now Campus Magnet, is on Francis Lewis Blvd and 116th Ave in Cambria Heights. August Martin is across from Baisley Park, There was a time during the Crack epidemic when it was not safe, but that has changed due to Community and NYPD involvement.

 

[beast of the east]

Was August Martin formerly Andrew Jackson?

We don't usually think of Bob Cousy as a NYC guy, but he went to Jackson, before I was born.

No, August Martin was Woodrow Wilson but the name was changed in the early 70’s.  Andrew Jackson is now Campus Magnet and has been split into three schools on the one campus.

Andrew Jackson was also where Rob “Tree” Cornegy and Boo Harvey went.





 

Thanks for that. Wasnt jackson across from Baisley Park? Dangerous place.



 

Andrew Jackson, now Campus Magnet, is on Francis Lewis Blvd and 116th Ave in Cambria Heights. August Martin is across from Baisley Park, There was a time during the Crack epidemic when it was not safe, but that has changed due to Community and NYPD involvement.

I'm really glad to hear it's cleaned up.   My HS was in their conference (Jackson also).   I remember rushing through the park after a football game we played there.   It's a pretty park and I believe a pond where more than a few people were fished out of, including one guy in the 70s who got lost on the belt parkway service road, on his way to picking up a first date in Queens and stopped near there to ask for directions.

 

 

[Las Vegan]

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August Martin had a good center who joined Bernie and Ernie at Tennessee

Think his name was Chatman a 6'9 C who was supposed to be at least good for put backs and rebounding. Came to many of our games and thought was we had a good chance at him. Of course there were rampant rumors on campus that Ernie was going to transfer back to St. J's.

I  had a friend, a coach at St. Pascal's HS, who knew Irv Chatman and said he was interested in SJU, and I even sent him a couple of free tix to a game at Alumni Hall. He brought Irv to the game and went to the locker room after the game to meet Louie. Coach advised that Louie was friendly, but never followed up with Irv. I don't know enough about his career at Tennessee to say if he would have had an impact at SJU.
 

 

[SJU85]

Chatman only played one year at Tennessee and transferred to Rhode Island where he was reunited with his High School teammate Jimmy Wrighr.

 

[beast of the east]

I honestly don't even know how anyone can debate if Anderson is the guy. If anyone wants to direct their anger anywhere, it should be at the school, administration and board who allowed this once legendary basketball team to fall into such mediocrity with their mom and pop approach. 

By all indications, Mike Anderson is working hard and doing the best he possibly can. What more can you realistically ask? Do I need to remind everyone that nobody wanted this job during the last coaching search? Do we need to list all of the reasons again as to why it isn't a desirable job?

I'm not happy with the results this year either, but I'm certainly not blaming Anderson. 

Some schools have had time pass them by.

Do you know that Looie had a deal never to be paid more than the university president? I think his maximum salary was $125k per year. When he left to coach the Nets, his replacement, Frank Mulzoff was paid what experienced faculty made, $17,500 per year.

Just 15 years prior, st John's single handedly jumpstarted the ACC, by refusing a $2,000 raise to Frank McGuire from about $5,000 per year.

In the beginning post Looie we paid a competitive salary to Mahoney given his lack of experience 400k.

Two coaches later SJU doubled that to bring in GW's ( and Patrick Ewings hs coach) mike Jarvis.

Since Lavin we've paid big salaries but over that long stretch ignored everything else.

Shanley is the first president who appears to have a handle on what it takes, cragg the first AD since Manetta.

I guarantee you though, if fans don't ante up, we will never be a competitive program on an equal footing with top programs.

It's interesting Beast. The way I view the current status of the St John's basketball program, it's almost like a series of misfortunes/bad luck over the past 2+ decades have led to where we are now.

Imagine if Jarvis had taken the Wizards job? The decision for him to stay cascaded into him bring terrible and getting fired, leading to the Pittsburgh incident, and 6 years of Norm who was never really qualified.

The Lavin hire was a major league move. But imagine if else never got cancer? That and seemingly other personal life issues impacted his tenure here. Who knows if those things never happen, maybe he's still here.

The Mullin hire as we know was just poor decision making.

My point is, if a few things could have broken differently, we could have built up years of sustained success, which in turn lead to more money flowing into the program. Right now it feels like we're trying to push a massive boulder uphill.

Think about it. These hires were all gambles, where all knew the risks involved.

1. Mahoney. Wasn't even in consideration until all top coaches contacted didn't want this job and many said hire Mahoney.

2. Fran - mid major guy who was 86-34 at manhattan. After getting fired here went 55-44 at new Mexico and got fired after zero post season bids.

3.Jarvis - mid major hire. Solid coaching skills. Horrible attitude.

4. Robert's- hired because he wasn't Jarvis or Fran. Harrington tired of prima donnas.

5. Lavin - tainted by not winning the way UCLA expects, was thus a high risk hire.

6. Mullin - everything else failed, let's try this.

7. Anderson. Real coach, best of what we could hire but clearly not elite. Basically a long enough resume to know what we were getting.

 

[19854ever]

Beast I can’t believe it will be 30 years since Lou retired but refresh everyone’s memory, the school did offer the job to others besides Brian Mahoney at the time? 

Who declined the SJU job way back in 1992? 

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

First , Rick Pitino is , without a doubt a great College BB Coach . He’s proven that at every stop, Providence , Kentucky , Louisville .  But , he does have some baggage . The Affair and then the L’ville recruiting scandal under his watch .    Obviously , he wanted back into College Coaching after these past few years of being out of the game .  While I believe he publicly stated he would take the St John’s job after Mullin , the School didn’t offer .  We were looking at Cluess, Moser , and a few other who I forget .  None took the job , for multiple reasons .                 CMA had just been fired at Arkansas and was available .  But , apparently still wanted to Coach .  Jeff Capel at Pitt recommended Mike to AD Cragg and the job was accepted .                         If the decision of the Board was to not hire Pitino , who likely may have been a Home Run here , Anderson was a good choice .                               There is no doubt CMA has been a great Ambassador for St John’s BB and has impressed many fans , Alums , Trustees , etc .   That is great but , being a Coach means Winning  and getting the talent to Win .    The Jury is out on that subject .                                                              Pitino is , what he is , a great Coach but , not here . Is that the best decision ? ??  

 

[beast of the east]

Beast I can’t believe it will be 30 years since Lou retired but refresh everyone’s memory, the school did offer the job to others besides Brian Mahoney at the time? 

Who declined the SJU job way back in 1992? 

Sju was under the delusion that ours was the primo job in all of college basketball. Why toil in Bloomington Indiana, or Atlanta, or Louisville if you could be in the bright lights of nyc with MSG as a home court. Literally no one was off limits. They expected to be flooded with big name highly successful applicants. Frank Layden, a loyal Vincentian product of Niagara and Utah jazz former coach and Gm was named to head the search committee. No one applied. Every single coach they reached out to (many like Cremins had ny roots) said no thank you right away.  Committee and search went nowhere.

 

[ras]

I honestly don't even know how anyone can debate if Anderson is the guy. If anyone wants to direct their anger anywhere, it should be at the school, administration and board who allowed this once legendary basketball team to fall into such mediocrity with their mom and pop approach. 

By all indications, Mike Anderson is working hard and doing the best he possibly can. What more can you realistically ask? Do I need to remind everyone that nobody wanted this job during the last coaching search? Do we need to list all of the reasons again as to why it isn't a desirable job?

I'm not happy with the results this year either, but I'm certainly not blaming Anderson. 

Some schools have had time pass them by.

Do you know that Looie had a deal never to be paid more than the university president? I think his maximum salary was $125k per year. When he left to coach the Nets, his replacement, Frank Mulzoff was paid what experienced faculty made, $17,500 per year.

Just 15 years prior, st John's single handedly jumpstarted the ACC, by refusing a $2,000 raise to Frank McGuire from about $5,000 per year.

In the beginning post Looie we paid a competitive salary to Mahoney given his lack of experience 400k.

Two coaches later SJU doubled that to bring in GW's ( and Patrick Ewings hs coach) mike Jarvis.

Since Lavin we've paid big salaries but over that long stretch ignored everything else.

Shanley is the first president who appears to have a handle on what it takes, cragg the first AD since Manetta.

I guarantee you though, if fans don't ante up, we will never be a competitive program on an equal footing with top programs.

It's interesting Beast. The way I view the current status of the St John's basketball program, it's almost like a series of misfortunes/bad luck over the past 2+ decades have led to where we are now.

Imagine if Jarvis had taken the Wizards job? The decision for him to stay cascaded into him bring terrible and getting fired, leading to the Pittsburgh incident, and 6 years of Norm who was never really qualified.

The Lavin hire was a major league move. But imagine if else never got cancer? That and seemingly other personal life issues impacted his tenure here. Who knows if those things never happen, maybe he's still here.

The Mullin hire as we know was just poor decision making.

My point is, if a few things could have broken differently, we could have built up years of sustained success, which in turn lead to more money flowing into the program. Right now it feels like we're trying to push a massive boulder uphill.
———
Some bad luck, but a lot of bad decision making by the higher ups.
Stemming  back from  forcing Lapchick to retire, not retaining McGuire, and the list goes on. I don’t understand why all the top coached turned us down after Lou  we were a consistent top program then  Maybe the board of trustees didn’t want to pay an appropriate  salary.
 

 

[19854ever]

Beast was John Kresse offered the job in 1992? Did he even interview back then ?