If we don't get a bid?

[quote="Mike Zaun" post=327605][quote="SJ_NYC" post=327600]Great post Beast. To force a coaching now, would be an utter disaster.[/quote]

Do you mean now as in literally now or after the season? Mullin has plenty of money, would it really be that shocking if he walked away from 2 Mil? Sounds like by all accounts Cragg will try to force a change. We will learn how stubborn he really is after the season. If Mullin walks away so we don't owe the 2 Mil and we end up with Oats/Hurley with at least LJ staying anyway, that would be best case scenario IMO. He's worth about $18 mil...not exactly hurting for cash.[/quote]

I don't care who you are, you're not walking away from 2 million dollars of income.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=327605][quote="SJ_NYC" post=327600]Great post Beast. To force a coaching now, would be an utter disaster.[/quote]

Do you mean now as in literally now or after the season? Mullin has plenty of money, would it really be that shocking if he walked away from 2 Mil? Sounds like by all accounts Cragg will try to force a change. We will learn how stubborn he really is after the season. If Mullin walks away so we don't owe the 2 Mil and we end up with Oats/Hurley with at least LJ staying anyway, that would be best case scenario IMO. He's worth about $18 mil...not exactly hurting for cash.[/quote]

Just curious, how do you know how much he is worth?
 
What matters to me the most is the trajectory of the program. Compare us to Georgetown. Which program would you buy stock in? Both are rebuilding, but which will likely be much better next year? Which school is doing better on the recruiting trail? Going the transfer route, with plenty of high school talent in the region, and more with NYC roots prepping elsewhere, is the easy way out. It's either a resignation that we have no chance with HS players, or that the staff is ill equipped or unwilling to put in the time and effort it takes to get these players.

Mullin said many times, when questioned about the lack of size,that he was comfortable with the team he had. That was before the season started. To me, he let the team down by failing to add an accomplished inside player to a talented but badly undersized roster. I don't think the dissing of Femi was some story concocted by Mullin haters. There is no one disputing it. It was an egregious error because it was avoidable. Coaching a college team is a year round job. If you want the summers off, assuming all the talk here was true, then get a job as a school teacher.
 
Bid or no bid something is likely going to have to change for program to take the next step. Simple questions for me is are you maximizing your resources? And, even if the results are good, could they be better relative to talent on roster? I think those answers are no and yes and that's an issue.

If this particular staff continues, they'll either need to (1) recruit more talent to overcome lack of game coach up, (2) change staff composition to open door for game coach up, or (3) both.

I don't think any of the 3 are that complicated. A single hire could theoretically solve for all of them without even changing head coaches.

Providence and Seton Hall are about as comparable as comparable gets for SJU. Providence has been to 5 consecutive NCAAs, Seton Hall 3 consecutive, which combined is more Tournament appearances in 5 years than SJU has had in the 26 years since Carnesecca retired (7).

We are doing something wrong but I don't think the fix is nearly as complicated as SJU has made it seem.
 
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Cant believe im saying this but this season is far more disappointing than last season. Once lovett went awol our season was done in my opinion. My expectations were that I didnt expect much. And then the great wins vs Duke and nova. This season has really sucked a lot of enjoyment from me. Last year it seemed like we never gave up. Mullin kept the guys together. This year totally doesn't have that feel. I know we still can make the dance but man it should not have been like this. I blame the seton hall debacle for it, otherwise we would have been off and running!!!...im joking btw. So deflating but a bid is still in our hands, just win baby!!!!

sincerely,
optimist feeling blue
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=327605][quote="SJ_NYC" post=327600]Great post Beast. To force a coaching now, would be an utter disaster.[/quote]

Do you mean now as in literally now or after the season? Mullin has plenty of money, would it really be that shocking if he walked away from 2 Mil? Sounds like by all accounts Cragg will try to force a change. We will learn how stubborn he really is after the season. If Mullin walks away so we don't owe the 2 Mil and we end up with Oats/Hurley with at least LJ staying anyway, that would be best case scenario IMO. He's worth about $18 mil...not exactly hurting for cash.[/quote]

You are making sh*t up:
"Sounds like by all accounts Cragg will try to force a change." - who is saying that? That's made up drivel.
 
[quote="SJU1512" post=327612]Bid or no bid something is likely going to have to change for program to take the next step. Simple questions for me is are you maximizing your resources? And, even if the results are good, could they be better relative to talent on roster? I think those answers are no and yes and that's an issue.

If this particular staff continues, they'll either need to (1) recruit more talent to overcome lack of game coach up, (2) change staff composition to open door for game coach up, or (3) both.

I don't think any of the 3 are that complicated. A single hire could theoretically solve for all of them without even changing head coaches.

Providence and Seton Hall are about as comparable as comparable gets for SJU. Providence has been to 5 consecutive NCAAs, Seton Hall 3 consecutive, which combined is more Tournament appearances in 5 years than SJU has had in the 26 years since Carnesecca retired (7).

We are doing something wrong but I don't think the fix is nearly as complicated as SJU has made it seem.[/quote]

I agree with all of this but highlighted the last part as I think this is a big part of the problem. I don't think the administration has come to grips with that. They are trying to figure out how to turn back the clock and make it twenty five years ago. So much has changed since then, and looking at a reasonable current comparable would be a great start for SJU. Maybe the new AD can get them there, but some of the things he has said (like playing all BE games at MSG) gives me pause he will also overreach. An honest assessment of what this program can be has been in order for a long time.

So far Villanova has defied the modern realities, but other than Nova just making the tournament is considered a good year for our Big East brethren. At SJU you get fired for it!
 
If we don't get a bid and Mullin comes back, he will destroy his reputation since it is extremely unlikely next year's team will be better than this year's. The fan base will completely turn on him before the season starts, and that will just be amplified after our first loss. Attendance this year had far more to do with Ponds and Heron rather than Mullin, so if either leaves then many fans will too. We know Mullin is stubborn/arrogant, but coming back with a depleted roster after vastly underachieving 4 years in a row would be extremely selfish.

He is far too stubborn and not hard enough a recruiter to succeed at this level, so we were banking on a good season this year to turn recruiting around. If we don't get a bid then it's a wrap for Chris.
 
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It would be a setback if we let this staff continue for another year. Everything broke right for us (Heron coming, Figgy committing, Ponds returning) and we haven't been able to capitalize on it. The experiment is over. Time for change.
 
[quote="sirvoo" post=327591]Agree MZ and it’s also incredible how much patience we have as a fan base. I just now turned on this guy after all this mediocrity!

These days it shouldn’t take more than 1 season to turn around a program. The idea that you need to build piece by piece and over a few years is antiquated. If you want an example look at what the Nevada coach has done. After 1 decent year he’s had them in the tourney 3 years in a row. Granted his players are brawling in the tunnel after losses but that’s a trade off I think we’re all willing to make![/quote]


Or the job done at Utah State, with a first year coach and a roster of lightly recruited players.
 
[quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327621]It would be a setback if we let this staff continue for another year. Everything broke right for us (Heron coming, Figgy committing, Ponds returning) and we haven't been able to capitalize on it. The experiment is over. Time for change.[/quote]

Nope
 
[quote="SJ_NYC" post=327624][quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327621]It would be a setback if we let this staff continue for another year. Everything broke right for us (Heron coming, Figgy committing, Ponds returning) and we haven't been able to capitalize on it. The experiment is over. Time for change.[/quote]

Nope[/quote]

What will change under the current regime? Mullin has shown he has no interest in changing the way he operates. This year was as good a group of talent as I believe this staff is capable of bringing in and we are squarely on the bubble with it.
 
To somewhat piggyback Ray Morgan's and 1512's post.... Everything screams lethargy, lack of accountability, stubbornness, lack of wherewithal and lack of adjustments (I guess that can also be considered part of lack of wherewithal). By the way, Morgan.... A good one re: if you want summertime off, then get a job as a teacher. Summertime for college coaches are spent recruiting and mining the field for talent. This program isn't in any position to relax and take time off during such an imperative period. If successful programs and coaches can be out, then what makes our staff so special?

I said it a year or so ago that if you can't count on the head coach to be out grinding on the recruiting trail, then that kinda stuff manifests itself. Some things tend to go hand-in-hand, ya know. Any success would likely be a flash in the pan, and we'll mainly deal with mediocre results with this current regime.

The lack of adjustments, particularly when facing teams like DePaul, Providence and Xavier, have been mindboggling stubborn, if not completely obtuse. Instead of adjusting the gameplan, all we've done was change personnel and continue the folly. Frankly, this kinda stuff (lack of ability to adjust) has been going on since Year 1.

Unless, we end up with two, new assistant coaches AND they're allowed to do their jobs then pull the plug on this experiment after the season. This staff won't win unless they have several high-level ball players at their disposal, and I don't see 'em being able to consistently land those type of players to camouflage their coaching shortcomings.

You wanna play like the Golden State Warriors and many other NBA teams (ie, consistently running up & down the court and launching treys, ISO ball, not much attention to detail to boxing out when it comes to rebounding), then you better have NBA-like personnel. Otherwise, experienced collegiate coaches will eventually eat your lunch.
 
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[quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327631][quote="SJ_NYC" post=327624][quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327621]It would be a setback if we let this staff continue for another year. Everything broke right for us (Heron coming, Figgy committing, Ponds returning) and we haven't been able to capitalize on it. The experiment is over. Time for change.[/quote]

Nope[/quote]

What will change under the current regime? Mullin has shown he has no interest in changing the way he operates. This year was as good a group of talent as I believe this staff is capable of bringing in and we are squarely on the bubble with it.[/quote]

He thinks Mullin is a better coach than Lavin. Credibility shot. 'Nuff said.
 
[quote="SJ_NYC" post=327618][quote="Mike Zaun" post=327605][quote="SJ_NYC" post=327600]Great post Beast. To force a coaching now, would be an utter disaster.[/quote]

Do you mean now as in literally now or after the season? Mullin has plenty of money, would it really be that shocking if he walked away from 2 Mil? Sounds like by all accounts Cragg will try to force a change. We will learn how stubborn he really is after the season. If Mullin walks away so we don't owe the 2 Mil and we end up with Oats/Hurley with at least LJ staying anyway, that would be best case scenario IMO. He's worth about $18 mil...not exactly hurting for cash.[/quote]

You are making sh*t up:
"Sounds like by all accounts Cragg will try to force a change." - who is saying that? That's made up drivel.[/quote]

You really don't pay attention on here, do you? What are you so angry about? Take a chill pill. Every time someone says something you can take them at their word or respectfully question it if you have evidence of contrary. No reason to act like a dick. This has been the rumor for some time now. And before you ask if they officially announced it yet from the very lips of Cragg, no and that would never happen. Rumors are rumors...why people get so defensive about them is beyond me. Either believe it or question respectfully with supporting evidence to dispute it. No room for the escalation. By the way Beast, looking up an estimate of a celebrity's net worth is a google search away. I'm sure it's just a ballpark but still.
 
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[quote="Redmen88" post=327598][quote="sirvoo" post=327584]What’s the difference between Lavin’s 4th year being bounced from NCAA’s and the year Mullin’s having? At least he made the tournament 2 out of 4 years! And I never was a fan of Lavin either.

CM should be canned barring a run in the next 2-3 weeks and it’s not purely based on results. This program needs a culture change in the worst way. It’s almost inconceivable a veteran team can still have a level of basketball IQ that is this low.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. It is mind boggling how low the level of basketball IQ is. The turnovers, the lack of focus, the non-committal Defense, the technical fouls, the cheap fouls are all consistent with low level IQ. Also, now every team knows to pound us inside so they can go to the free throw line 45 times while we hoist 3's. To turn it around we need players with higher BBall IQ and a much more balanced roster. We needs Bigs, back up point guards, knock down shooters sprinkled with a few studs each year. Barring that we are what we see, a very flawed program. I actually couldn't watch the game the other day. I would rather pull weeds than watch that team. Even without a legitimate big we could try to throw different looks to stop the bleeding but we continue to throw one look at every team and hope our 3 point shooting wins the game for us. This is another low point of which I did not expect this year.[/quote]

So true. To go along with the complete lack of focus and awareness of fundamentals/how to play the game the right way, there is a huge roster deficiency which is size! So even when we get a sporadic stop or don’t foul, the opposition is cleaning up the glass which is a killer. It’s very hard to watch.

Don’t get me wrong the kids play with energy but at some point that’s just not enough. Justin Simon can’t dribble a basketball for crying out loud. He can’t even pass! Forget about shooting. Watch this guy run the fast break, the only thing he can do is wildly dribble the ball until he gets to the hoop and skies for a dunk. Ask him to do anything else like change direction or pass the ball and he looks like he’s never played the game before in his life.
 
Let's keep the frustrated feels at a civil level, please gentlemen.
 
As a longtime fan, this is as low as I have ever felt in terms of both the results this year and beyond. Either beat X at home or an OK but nothing great Depaul team, and the ticket is punched. To watch a guy like Strus, in a game we couldn't afford to lose, have the greatest half in Big East and maybe college basketball history was embarrassing. Strus is a 34% 3 point shooter. He only goes right. What was worse is that we did nothing to make him or his teammates adjust. Next season is shaping up to be an utter disaster. Ponds is gone. He looks like he needs a change of scenery. I would venture the same with Heron. Tariq is dancing on a real nice team. The reason given for leaving was that he wasn't featured enough in the offense. He certainly isn't featured at Texas Tech, but then again they are winning, and that counts for a lot. Perhaps his real gripe was everyone else has a green light, why can't I?
 
I will say this: If we completely no-show against Xavier and in our first BET game, and Mullin doesn't leave, it would be similar to the feeling I had when I thought for sure Norm was finally gone, but then the school brought him back for another season. Finishing on such a low note would be completely demoralizing.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=327605][quote="SJ_NYC" post=327600]Great post Beast. To force a coaching now, would be an utter disaster.[/quote]

Do you mean now as in literally now or after the season? Mullin has plenty of money, would it really be that shocking if he walked away from 2 Mil? Sounds like by all accounts Cragg will try to force a change. We will learn how stubborn he really is after the season. If Mullin walks away so we don't owe the 2 Mil and we end up with Oats/Hurley with at least LJ staying anyway, that would be best case scenario IMO. He's worth about $18 mil...not exactly hurting for cash.[/quote] So your Mullin's accountant as well? 18mil? You lose even more credibility when you pull numbers from places like this. [URL]https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/nba/chris-mullin-net-worth/[/URL]
 
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