If we don't get a bid?

First of all some of the commentary here is spectacularly over the top negative.

Most of you very same guys were just a few games ago giddy when specuiating that our seed may be as high as a 5 or 6. Then Heron misses 2 games, where we pull one out vs. a good Seton Hall team, comes back at less than himself, and we lose while nonetheless not playing our best.

Think about our culture. People toss in the towel on salvageable marriages by not doing the hard work of building, restoring, and committing. Many won't even enter into those kind of relationships any more because in part, they can't take the bad that comes along with the good, or that it's just too hard to sacrifice, commit, and be patient.

When you guys turn this into an all out assault on the effort and character of coaches, you degrade yourself.

Chris Mullin HAS earned a lot of money over his career. He was also one of the very best basketball players to ever play this game, good enough to be in both the HS and college HOF. Some of you speak of the monetary success that comes with this as almost something he should apologize for, or that it is disdainful. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

Before you guys go bashing everyone, for the Big East, our starting 5, at full strength and healthy, is as good as anyone in conference. Probably good enough to win a couple of NCAA games. However, the deficiencies are obvious, lack of height and lack of depth. The misfortune of losing Ponds even for a game, and Heron for 3, definitely impacted wins. If we went 7 deep with two guys who could step in next year and start, or at least where the dropoff wasn't radical, we'd be in a different spot.

Amazing but I suspect that many of you who are the harshest critics on Mullin, are not even among the 4,000 or so season ticket holds of various packages, or have attended as many as 5 games this season. You may recall that guy on here (who I won't name) who would always beg for free unused tickets for games who advocated a boycott on buying tickets until we added to our coaching staff. This was from a guy who had never bought his own tickets. When the irony of that post was pointed out, he disappeared, thankfully.

This issue should not be about being disdainful towards Mullin or any staff member. I think it is a reasonable discussion to consider whether we've improved enough over four seasons to be hopeful for the future. Some of you have seen enough and I think that's fair. I'm a little more patient, and this season to date has been as exciting as any in recent memory, at least to me. I guess, to fans also if you go by attendance.

I will say this, and it's completely legitimate from what I see. I don't remember a time in our recent history, maybe ever, where the school and the AD has built such a strong culture between alumni, other fans, and the program. It's a positive vibe, and a strong community is being formed. It didn't exist when Lavin was here, but even that was a ton better than when Norm ran the show. Before that, I can't comment because I wasn't so involved.

We are in an extremely competitive league, and to be among the best you have to assemble better talent and lots of it. Every program has a competitive team, and it is awfully difficult to rise above that. It isn't like a weaker mid major league where you can assemble better talent quickly and compete at the top of league. Here, and thankfully, just about every program gives you a tough go night in and night out.

For those of you who think that eating $2 million of Mullin's last year, or that we should go after sure fire coaching talent of $3-4 million or more, I'd ask one thing - How much have you donated towards that cause over the past 3 years? Programs aren't built on the shoulder of one or two big donors, they are built on a strong base of contributors that make significant donations as their means allow. We want to expand CA - that will cost money? Better coaches - more $$, etc. But money alone won't build a great program. Boston college has an endowment of $5 billion, yet cannot product a top tier team in the ACC. Harvard I think has $50 billion, enough to steamroll nearly all colleges, yet their athletic success is moderate.

Again, I'm okay with discussing the future of the program and even coaching changes, but do we have to attack the coaches personally to do so?
 
[quote="L J S A" post=327646]I will say this: If we completely no-show against Xavier and in our first BET game, and Mullin doesn't leave, it would be similar to the feeling I had when I thought for sure Norm was finally gone, but then the school brought him back for another season. Finishing on such a low note would be completely demoralizing.[/quote] I have the same feeling and I hope we are both wrong.
 
I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.
 
[quote="Manhattan1" post=327656]I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.[/quote]

Well if you were referring to ME, then I suggest that the site being tough to read has more to do with you NOT reading much at all. I think it's all in bounds to critique the depth or roster, in game coaching, composition of staff, etc. What's out of bounds is responding to losses on a team still in the NCAA hunt with personal attacks on all the coaches and some of the players.

I think I'm reasonable in that regard, but some of our posters act like kids who didn't get their dessert after dinner and throw fits kicking and screaming the whole way. Why can't the discussion simply be about competency or success in filling a roster?
 
Well-said Beast.
I must say that I’m disappointed with the team’s performance this year with such a talented starting 5.
Reasons for this include our lack of quality depth, our lack of Bigs, and our inability to adjust during games, either in offensive or defensive strategy.
We continue to launch 3s from deep a few seconds into the clock and continue to play man-man against Big Teams when that piles up the fouls against us and our opponents feast at the FT line.
‘Some’ of that inability to adjust has to be ‘on’ the coaching staff, in my view.
That said, I doubt the school can afford to buy out Mullin’s contract.
At this point, I hope for one of two things:
Primarily, a revival to begin against Xavier that transcends into the BET and into the Dance.
Or, as a poor ‘consolation’ prize, that the dismal finish enables Cragg to implement changes in the coaching staff, adding a solid X/O guy and 1 more solid recruiter.
That’s the minimum I’m hoping for.
 
I've been reading the site for years and posts I just choose not to post every second of the day because I don't have the time. And I am not specifically referring to you at all. There are many who like stirring the pot on here.

I am being fair and just stating the obvious 8-9 in the Big East this year is not a good thing and changes need to be made. If you are defending this season then you are not being fair and are biased. That is not specifically towards anyone either on here.
 
[quote="Manhattan1" post=327656]I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.[/quote]

I agree with your point on Mullin. I'm a season ticket holder and have been to 95% of the games this year. I'm also 28 and my parents didn't even know each other yet when Mullin graduated. I have no sentimentality towards him at all, he was retired from the NBA when I was of age to intelligently watch sports.

I won't lose any sleep at night if we fire the guy. He never came to our games or promoted the school when I was a student in Norm/Lavin years before he was getting paid $2 mil a year to coach us, what does it matter if that relationship is severed now?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327650]First of all some of the commentary here is spectacularly over the top negative.

Most of you very same guys were just a few games ago giddy when specuiating that our seed may be as high as a 5 or 6. Then Heron misses 2 games, where we pull one out vs. a good Seton Hall team, comes back at less than himself, and we lose while nonetheless not playing our best.

Think about our culture. People toss in the towel on salvageable marriages by not doing the hard work of building, restoring, and committing. Many won't even enter into those kind of relationships any more because in part, they can't take the bad that comes along with the good, or that it's just too hard to sacrifice, commit, and be patient.

When you guys turn this into an all out assault on the effort and character of coaches, you degrade yourself.

Chris Mullin HAS earned a lot of money over his career. He was also one of the very best basketball players to ever play this game, good enough to be in both the HS and college HOF. Some of you speak of the monetary success that comes with this as almost something he should apologize for, or that it is disdainful. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

Before you guys go bashing everyone, for the Big East, our starting 5, at full strength and healthy, is as good as anyone in conference. Probably good enough to win a couple of NCAA games. However, the deficiencies are obvious, lack of height and lack of depth. The misfortune of losing Ponds even for a game, and Heron for 3, definitely impacted wins. If we went 7 deep with two guys who could step in next year and start, or at least where the dropoff wasn't radical, we'd be in a different spot.

Amazing but I suspect that many of you who are the harshest critics on Mullin, are not even among the 4,000 or so season ticket holds of various packages, or have attended as many as 5 games this season. You may recall that guy on here (who I won't name) who would always beg for free unused tickets for games who advocated a boycott on buying tickets until we added to our coaching staff. This was from a guy who had never bought his own tickets. When the irony of that post was pointed out, he disappeared, thankfully.

This issue should not be about being disdainful towards Mullin or any staff member. I think it is a reasonable discussion to consider whether we've improved enough over four seasons to be hopeful for the future. Some of you have seen enough and I think that's fair. I'm a little more patient, and this season to date has been as exciting as any in recent memory, at least to me. I guess, to fans also if you go by attendance.

I will say this, and it's completely legitimate from what I see. I don't remember a time in our recent history, maybe ever, where the school and the AD has built such a strong culture between alumni, other fans, and the program. It's a positive vibe, and a strong community is being formed. It didn't exist when Lavin was here, but even that was a ton better than when Norm ran the show. Before that, I can't comment because I wasn't so involved.

We are in an extremely competitive league, and to be among the best you have to assemble better talent and lots of it. Every program has a competitive team, and it is awfully difficult to rise above that. It isn't like a weaker mid major league where you can assemble better talent quickly and compete at the top of league. Here, and thankfully, just about every program gives you a tough go night in and night out.

For those of you who think that eating $2 million of Mullin's last year, or that we should go after sure fire coaching talent of $3-4 million or more, I'd ask one thing - How much have you donated towards that cause over the past 3 years? Programs aren't built on the shoulder of one or two big donors, they are built on a strong base of contributors that make significant donations as their means allow. We want to expand CA - that will cost money? Better coaches - more $$, etc. But money alone won't build a great program. Boston college has an endowment of $5 billion, yet cannot product a top tier team in the ACC. Harvard I think has $50 billion, enough to steamroll nearly all colleges, yet their athletic success is moderate.

Again, I'm okay with discussing the future of the program and even coaching changes, but do we have to attack the coaches personally to do so?[/quote]

If we don't make the NCAAT and Mullin steps down, then things won't get ugly. It's only if he returns after a failed season that he'd become public enemy #1 around here. It's just how things are.

I think your post has some merit but is also a bit of a straw man. Most of us are questioning his work (recruiting) ethic and his lack of addressing obvious concerns. He is getting paid $2 million a year to represent the University so that is fair game. If he wants the University to pay his friend Mitch a bunch of money then that is his choice, but if Mitch isn't putting in the same effort as other assistants then it's fair to criticize him for that. Mullin is stubborn and I don't see that as a personal attack. Sometimes being stubborn is a good thing, but in this case it clearly isn't.

When all the pundits and fans keep screaming for 4 years to change, and he doesn't, then his strategy better work. Otherwise, he will get well deserved backlash.
 
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This season is a disappointment if we don’t make the tournament. People calling it one already are upset we are probably gonna go 8-10 in conference, and that’s fair.

But if we win a game these next two weeks and get into the tournament and win a game, none of you will remember our conference record years from now, you’ll remember the memorable win over nova, the wins over Marquette, selection Sunday, and the ncaa game.

The position we are in right now sucks because we are vulnerable and might make not make the tournament, but I’m not calling the season a disappointment yet. I mean come on, we could still win the BET. That would mean so much more than going 8-10 or 9-9. Let things play out before giving up
 
[quote="Adam" post=327662][quote="Beast of the East" post=327650]First of all some of the commentary here is spectacularly over the top negative.

Most of you very same guys were just a few games ago giddy when specuiating that our seed may be as high as a 5 or 6. Then Heron misses 2 games, where we pull one out vs. a good Seton Hall team, comes back at less than himself, and we lose while nonetheless not playing our best.

Think about our culture. People toss in the towel on salvageable marriages by not doing the hard work of building, restoring, and committing. Many won't even enter into those kind of relationships any more because in part, they can't take the bad that comes along with the good, or that it's just too hard to sacrifice, commit, and be patient.

When you guys turn this into an all out assault on the effort and character of coaches, you degrade yourself.

Chris Mullin HAS earned a lot of money over his career. He was also one of the very best basketball players to ever play this game, good enough to be in both the HS and college HOF. Some of you speak of the monetary success that comes with this as almost something he should apologize for, or that it is disdainful. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

Before you guys go bashing everyone, for the Big East, our starting 5, at full strength and healthy, is as good as anyone in conference. Probably good enough to win a couple of NCAA games. However, the deficiencies are obvious, lack of height and lack of depth. The misfortune of losing Ponds even for a game, and Heron for 3, definitely impacted wins. If we went 7 deep with two guys who could step in next year and start, or at least where the dropoff wasn't radical, we'd be in a different spot.

Amazing but I suspect that many of you who are the harshest critics on Mullin, are not even among the 4,000 or so season ticket holds of various packages, or have attended as many as 5 games this season. You may recall that guy on here (who I won't name) who would always beg for free unused tickets for games who advocated a boycott on buying tickets until we added to our coaching staff. This was from a guy who had never bought his own tickets. When the irony of that post was pointed out, he disappeared, thankfully.

This issue should not be about being disdainful towards Mullin or any staff member. I think it is a reasonable discussion to consider whether we've improved enough over four seasons to be hopeful for the future. Some of you have seen enough and I think that's fair. I'm a little more patient, and this season to date has been as exciting as any in recent memory, at least to me. I guess, to fans also if you go by attendance.

I will say this, and it's completely legitimate from what I see. I don't remember a time in our recent history, maybe ever, where the school and the AD has built such a strong culture between alumni, other fans, and the program. It's a positive vibe, and a strong community is being formed. It didn't exist when Lavin was here, but even that was a ton better than when Norm ran the show. Before that, I can't comment because I wasn't so involved.

We are in an extremely competitive league, and to be among the best you have to assemble better talent and lots of it. Every program has a competitive team, and it is awfully difficult to rise above that. It isn't like a weaker mid major league where you can assemble better talent quickly and compete at the top of league. Here, and thankfully, just about every program gives you a tough go night in and night out.

For those of you who think that eating $2 million of Mullin's last year, or that we should go after sure fire coaching talent of $3-4 million or more, I'd ask one thing - How much have you donated towards that cause over the past 3 years? Programs aren't built on the shoulder of one or two big donors, they are built on a strong base of contributors that make significant donations as their means allow. We want to expand CA - that will cost money? Better coaches - more $$, etc. But money alone won't build a great program. Boston college has an endowment of $5 billion, yet cannot product a top tier team in the ACC. Harvard I think has $50 billion, enough to steamroll nearly all colleges, yet their athletic success is moderate.

Again, I'm okay with discussing the future of the program and even coaching changes, but do we have to attack the coaches personally to do so?[/quote]

If we don't make the NCAAT and Mullin steps down, then things won't get ugly. It's only if he returns after a failed season that he'd become public enemy #1 around here. It's just how things are.

I think your post has some merit but is also a bit of a straw man. Most of us are questioning his work (recruiting) ethic and his lack of addressing obvious concerns. He is getting paid $2 million a year to represent the University so that is fair game. If he wants the University to pay his friend Mitch a bunch of money then that is his choice, but if Mitch isn't putting in the same effort as other assistants then it's fair to criticize him for that. Mullin is stubborn and I don't see that as a personal attack. Sometimes being stubborn is a good thing, but in this case it clearly isn't.

When all the pundits and fans keep screaming for 4 years to change, and he doesn't, then his strategy better work. Otherwise, he will get well deserved backlash.[/quote]

While I appreciate your attempt at being fair, your criticisms are all highly speculative:

1) Stubborn
2) work ethic
3) Mitch's role

I would saying that even those fans that are close to the program have no idea if Chris is stubborn or not, how hard he works at his job, or what Mitch does at practice or otherwise.

All we know are wins and losses and the composition of our roster. I would also venture to guess nearly everyone here would lose if their basketball knowledge was compared to our staff's, yet many here do not hesitate to call Chris an idiot. That charge may even been in this thread.

Who care if you never heard of Mullin or saw him play. The fact is, he was our greatest player, and for four seasons was the equal in New York as professional star athletes who played in this town. The city that loves St. John's in a large part loves Mullin, at least those who were around back then. I wouldn't expect you to have the kind of affinity some of those around back then would.
 
Just win against xavier. Stop the bleeding. Weve played well just when all hope is close to lost and vice versa. Well, all hope seems to be lost so its time to flip the switch. Just win against xavier guys!!! Force them turnovers, play fast transition ball and we can win. They beat us on the road, we can beat them on the road.
 
[quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327660][quote="Manhattan1" post=327656]I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.[/quote]

I agree with your point on Mullin. I'm a season ticket holder and have been to 95% of the games this year. I'm also 28 and my parents didn't even know each other yet when Mullin graduated. I have no sentimentality towards him at all, he was retired from the NBA when I was of age to intelligently watch sports.

I won't lose any sleep at night if we fire the guy. He never came to our games or promoted the school when I was a student in Norm/Lavin years before he was getting paid $2 mil a year to coach us, what does it matter if that relationship is severed now?[/quote]

I think Mullin graduated in 1998 or so. Unless your parents met in a closet after playing spin the bottle, they knew each other by then.. just saying.

I understand your point, but the best attendance in 27 seasons had more to do than your relationship with Mullin. That's all. Fair game to criticize the lack of success this season, but I do remind you that most of the detractors here were giddy a week ago after the SHU win.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327666][quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327660][quote="Manhattan1" post=327656]I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.[/quote]

I agree with your point on Mullin. I'm a season ticket holder and have been to 95% of the games this year. I'm also 28 and my parents didn't even know each other yet when Mullin graduated. I have no sentimentality towards him at all, he was retired from the NBA when I was of age to intelligently watch sports.

I won't lose any sleep at night if we fire the guy. He never came to our games or promoted the school when I was a student in Norm/Lavin years before he was getting paid $2 mil a year to coach us, what does it matter if that relationship is severed now?[/quote]

I think Mullin graduated in 1998 or so. Unless your parents met in a closet after playing spin the bottle, they knew each other by then.. just saying.

I understand your point, but the best attendance in 27 seasons had more to do than your relationship with Mullin. That's all. Fair game to criticize the lack of success this season, but I do remind you that most of the detractors here were giddy a week ago after the SHU win.[/quote]

There's something to be said for stirring up fan interest, but I will go to the games regardless. I'd much rather root for a team that wins with 8,000 other people in the stands with me than root for one that doesn't with 16,000 people in the stands with me. If Mullin's best contribution to the program is stirring up fan interest then so be it, that's something that the next coach could hopefully build on, but that shouldn't affect whether he continues coaching or not.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327666][quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327660][quote="Manhattan1" post=327656]I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.[/quote]

I agree with your point on Mullin. I'm a season ticket holder and have been to 95% of the games this year. I'm also 28 and my parents didn't even know each other yet when Mullin graduated. I have no sentimentality towards him at all, he was retired from the NBA when I was of age to intelligently watch sports.

I won't lose any sleep at night if we fire the guy. He never came to our games or promoted the school when I was a student in Norm/Lavin years before he was getting paid $2 mil a year to coach us, what does it matter if that relationship is severed now?[/quote]

I think Mullin graduated in 1998 or so. Unless your parents met in a closet after playing spin the bottle, they knew each other by then.. just saying.

I understand your point, but the best attendance in 27 seasons had more to do than your relationship with Mullin. That's all. Fair game to criticize the lack of success this season, but I do remind you that most of the detractors here were giddy a week ago after the SHU win.[/quote]

Mullin played in the 1985 final four so he did not graduate in 1998!
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327664][quote="Adam" post=327662][quote="Beast of the East" post=327650]First of all some of the commentary here is spectacularly over the top negative.

Most of you very same guys were just a few games ago giddy when specuiating that our seed may be as high as a 5 or 6. Then Heron misses 2 games, where we pull one out vs. a good Seton Hall team, comes back at less than himself, and we lose while nonetheless not playing our best.

Think about our culture. People toss in the towel on salvageable marriages by not doing the hard work of building, restoring, and committing. Many won't even enter into those kind of relationships any more because in part, they can't take the bad that comes along with the good, or that it's just too hard to sacrifice, commit, and be patient.

When you guys turn this into an all out assault on the effort and character of coaches, you degrade yourself.

Chris Mullin HAS earned a lot of money over his career. He was also one of the very best basketball players to ever play this game, good enough to be in both the HS and college HOF. Some of you speak of the monetary success that comes with this as almost something he should apologize for, or that it is disdainful. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

Before you guys go bashing everyone, for the Big East, our starting 5, at full strength and healthy, is as good as anyone in conference. Probably good enough to win a couple of NCAA games. However, the deficiencies are obvious, lack of height and lack of depth. The misfortune of losing Ponds even for a game, and Heron for 3, definitely impacted wins. If we went 7 deep with two guys who could step in next year and start, or at least where the dropoff wasn't radical, we'd be in a different spot.

Amazing but I suspect that many of you who are the harshest critics on Mullin, are not even among the 4,000 or so season ticket holds of various packages, or have attended as many as 5 games this season. You may recall that guy on here (who I won't name) who would always beg for free unused tickets for games who advocated a boycott on buying tickets until we added to our coaching staff. This was from a guy who had never bought his own tickets. When the irony of that post was pointed out, he disappeared, thankfully.

This issue should not be about being disdainful towards Mullin or any staff member. I think it is a reasonable discussion to consider whether we've improved enough over four seasons to be hopeful for the future. Some of you have seen enough and I think that's fair. I'm a little more patient, and this season to date has been as exciting as any in recent memory, at least to me. I guess, to fans also if you go by attendance.

I will say this, and it's completely legitimate from what I see. I don't remember a time in our recent history, maybe ever, where the school and the AD has built such a strong culture between alumni, other fans, and the program. It's a positive vibe, and a strong community is being formed. It didn't exist when Lavin was here, but even that was a ton better than when Norm ran the show. Before that, I can't comment because I wasn't so involved.

We are in an extremely competitive league, and to be among the best you have to assemble better talent and lots of it. Every program has a competitive team, and it is awfully difficult to rise above that. It isn't like a weaker mid major league where you can assemble better talent quickly and compete at the top of league. Here, and thankfully, just about every program gives you a tough go night in and night out.

For those of you who think that eating $2 million of Mullin's last year, or that we should go after sure fire coaching talent of $3-4 million or more, I'd ask one thing - How much have you donated towards that cause over the past 3 years? Programs aren't built on the shoulder of one or two big donors, they are built on a strong base of contributors that make significant donations as their means allow. We want to expand CA - that will cost money? Better coaches - more $$, etc. But money alone won't build a great program. Boston college has an endowment of $5 billion, yet cannot product a top tier team in the ACC. Harvard I think has $50 billion, enough to steamroll nearly all colleges, yet their athletic success is moderate.

Again, I'm okay with discussing the future of the program and even coaching changes, but do we have to attack the coaches personally to do so?[/quote]

If we don't make the NCAAT and Mullin steps down, then things won't get ugly. It's only if he returns after a failed season that he'd become public enemy #1 around here. It's just how things are.

I think your post has some merit but is also a bit of a straw man. Most of us are questioning his work (recruiting) ethic and his lack of addressing obvious concerns. He is getting paid $2 million a year to represent the University so that is fair game. If he wants the University to pay his friend Mitch a bunch of money then that is his choice, but if Mitch isn't putting in the same effort as other assistants then it's fair to criticize him for that. Mullin is stubborn and I don't see that as a personal attack. Sometimes being stubborn is a good thing, but in this case it clearly isn't.

When all the pundits and fans keep screaming for 4 years to change, and he doesn't, then his strategy better work. Otherwise, he will get well deserved backlash.[/quote]

While I appreciate your attempt at being fair, your criticisms are all highly speculative:

1) Stubborn
2) work ethic
3) Mitch's role

I would saying that even those fans that are close to the program have no idea if Chris is stubborn or not, how hard he works at his job, or what Mitch does at practice or otherwise.

All we know are wins and losses and the composition of our roster. I would also venture to guess nearly everyone here would lose if their basketball knowledge was compared to our staff's, yet many here do not hesitate to call Chris an idiot. That charge may even been in this thread.

Who care if you never heard of Mullin or saw him play. The fact is, he was our greatest player, and for four seasons was the equal in New York as professional star athletes who played in this town. The city that loves St. John's in a large part loves Mullin, at least those who were around back then. I wouldn't expect you to have the kind of affinity some of those around back then would.[/quote]

You're right in that those 3 points are speculative, because they are statements that can't be proven. They are however statements that a lot of us believe to be true. In 2019 we have access to more information then ever before, so not everything needs to be proven. We do come from different generations and a lot of things, both big and small, have bothered me. I don't understand why Chris can't take five minutes to make social media accounts like every other coach in the league. I have no clue what goes on during practice but I do see what coaches are showing up to which events (including during the summer), what is said during some of the huddles, etc. Regardless, results are something that are substantial and negate everything I just said. We still have time to turn things around, but things are starting to look bleak.

I didn't mention my affinity for Mullin, but you're right in that you and others who saw him play generally like him more than those who haven't. That just isn't enough for the rest of us to give him a pass. He's already gotten a far bigger pass than any other coach would get, and at a certain point enough is enough.

Hopefully we beat Xavier and this argument/thread can fade away, just like all those negative threads from a month back.
 
[quote="ron " post=327669][quote="Beast of the East" post=327666][quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327660][quote="Manhattan1" post=327656]I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.[/quote]

I agree with your point on Mullin. I'm a season ticket holder and have been to 95% of the games this year. I'm also 28 and my parents didn't even know each other yet when Mullin graduated. I have no sentimentality towards him at all, he was retired from the NBA when I was of age to intelligently watch sports.

I won't lose any sleep at night if we fire the guy. He never came to our games or promoted the school when I was a student in Norm/Lavin years before he was getting paid $2 mil a year to coach us, what does it matter if that relationship is severed now?[/quote]

I think Mullin graduated in 1998 or so. Unless your parents met in a closet after playing spin the bottle, they knew each other by then.. just saying.

I understand your point, but the best attendance in 27 seasons had more to do than your relationship with Mullin. That's all. Fair game to criticize the lack of success this season, but I do remind you that most of the detractors here were giddy a week ago after the SHU win.[/quote]

Mullin played in the 1985 final four so he did not graduate in 1998![/quote] Mullin was a few credits short when his eligibility at St. John's ended. He is class of 98, because that is when he came back, and finished up.
 
[quote="ron " post=327669][quote="Beast of the East" post=327666][quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327660][quote="Manhattan1" post=327656]I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.[/quote]

I agree with your point on Mullin. I'm a season ticket holder and have been to 95% of the games this year. I'm also 28 and my parents didn't even know each other yet when Mullin graduated. I have no sentimentality towards him at all, he was retired from the NBA when I was of age to intelligently watch sports.

I won't lose any sleep at night if we fire the guy. He never came to our games or promoted the school when I was a student in Norm/Lavin years before he was getting paid $2 mil a year to coach us, what does it matter if that relationship is severed now?[/quote]

I think Mullin graduated in 1998 or so. Unless your parents met in a closet after playing spin the bottle, they knew each other by then.. just saying.

I understand your point, but the best attendance in 27 seasons had more to do than your relationship with Mullin. That's all. Fair game to criticize the lack of success this season, but I do remind you that most of the detractors here were giddy a week ago after the SHU win.[/quote]

Mullin played in the 1985 final four so he did not graduate in 1998![/quote]

Mullin didn't graduate with his class. He came back and finished years later Ron.
 
Mullin’s name and legend bought him the 4th year at the helm. Anyone else would have been fired for 3 awful seasons.

If he lands Precious or Kuminga in the next 2 weeks (doubtful) OR goes on a run and we win 4 more games inclusive of BET and NCAA’s then he should get his 5th year. Otherwise it’s time to move on.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=327674][quote="ron " post=327669][quote="Beast of the East" post=327666][quote="SJU11Redmen" post=327660][quote="Manhattan1" post=327656]I have had season tickets for over 25 years and have been to over 20 games this year. The same people on this site "cry" when anyone rips on Chris Mullin. And it was the same way under our former coaches. Some of the "older people" on here were around when Chris Mullin played for SJU and I understand your affinity for him. The younger fans have no history of Chris Mullin and are just looking at the product over the past 4 years.
It is amazing some of the people on this site who flip when somebody disagrees with somebody. It is a message board there is suppose to be disagreement.

Looking at the season this has been a major disappointment. This team has the talent to be top 3 team in Big east and top 25 team (4-6 seed in NCAA). I think Zach's article in the post pretty much nailed it today.

Mullin has not gotten the job done, his overall record is atrocious. I am not saying he needs to be fired but some type of change needs to be made..

But some of you need to chill out when someone disagrees with you because this site is tough to read right now.[/quote]

I agree with your point on Mullin. I'm a season ticket holder and have been to 95% of the games this year. I'm also 28 and my parents didn't even know each other yet when Mullin graduated. I have no sentimentality towards him at all, he was retired from the NBA when I was of age to intelligently watch sports.

I won't lose any sleep at night if we fire the guy. He never came to our games or promoted the school when I was a student in Norm/Lavin years before he was getting paid $2 mil a year to coach us, what does it matter if that relationship is severed now?[/quote]

I think Mullin graduated in 1998 or so. Unless your parents met in a closet after playing spin the bottle, they knew each other by then.. just saying.

I understand your point, but the best attendance in 27 seasons had more to do than your relationship with Mullin. That's all. Fair game to criticize the lack of success this season, but I do remind you that most of the detractors here were giddy a week ago after the SHU win.[/quote]

Mullin played in the 1985 final four so he did not graduate in 1998![/quote] Mullin was a few credits short when his eligibility at St. John's ended. He is class of 98, because that is when he came back, and finished up.[/quote]

Thanks, did not know that!
 
[quote="Eric" post=327665]Just win against xavier. Stop the bleeding. Weve played well just when all hope is close to lost and vice versa. Well, all hope seems to be lost so its time to flip the switch. Just win against xavier guys!!! Force them turnovers, play fast transition ball and we can win. They beat us on the road, we can beat them on the road.[/quote]

The only way we win Saturday's game is if we play lights out! We're gonna have to bring our 'A-game' as a team or a few players will have to play an 'A-game.' I don't expect our staff to adjust their gameplan, so that is what will have to occur in order for us to win.

Xavier know what's at hand, and it'll be a loud and raucous building this weekend. I'm not expecting a win, but will be very elated if it were to happen.
 
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