If we don't get a bid?

[quote="TobinGrad" post=327538] .......Not sure who the next guy will be. I guess Billy Donovan is locked up with Oklahoma City. Musselman will go UCLA if anywhere. Hoiberg might be a longshot[/quote]
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I will be surprised if Mullin is not back next year for his 5th and final year of his contract because I can’t see St.John’s paying $2M+ to buy out his contract, and I don’t see Mullin walking away from that $2M+ payout.

However, whenever there is a vacancy expect Cragg to reach out to the Coach K coaching tree and reach out to longtime Duke Assistant Nate James, or Jon Scheyer, Duke grad/ Harvard head Tommy Amaker (complicated by Amaker’s wife’s career), Duke grad/ UCF Head Johnny Dawkins (complicated by 2017 contract extension), or someone else with ties to the Duke program.
 
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[quote="fordham96" post=327543]Chris took a wrong turn 3 years ago with the staff and recruiting strategy after the Slice thing blew up. He needs to fix that. And no we don't have to revisit Mike RIce. But it needs to be addressed. The current staff and recruiting strategy is not working.[/quote]

Does Mullin quit our of loyalty? Does he get pissy and recruit even less out of spite? Does Mitch get pissy and end friendship? Things can sometimes get weird when you have to fire a longtime friend.
 
[quote="otis" post=327552][quote="TobinGrad" post=327538] .......Not sure who the next guy will be. I guess Billy Donovan is locked up with Oklahoma City. Musselman will go UCLA if anywhere. Hoiberg might be a longshot[/quote]
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I will be surprised if Mullin is not back next year for his 5th and final year of his contract because I can’t see St.John’s paying $2M+ to buy out his contract, and I don’t see Mullin walking away from that $2M+ payout.

However, whenever there is a vacancy expect Cragg to reach out to the Coach K coaching tree and reach out to longtime Duke Assistant Nate James, or Jon Scheyer, Duke grad/ Harvard head Tommy Amaker (complicated by Amaker’s wife’s career), Duke grad/ UCF Head Johnny Dawkins (complicated by 2017 contract extension), or someone else with ties to the Duke program.[/quote]

I would be seriously disappointed if any of those guys named landed here.
 
Nate Oats, Buffalo
Record: 81-41 (fourth season)
Age: 44
NCAA appearances: Two (2016, 2018)

Matt McMahon, Murray State
Record: 74-39 (fourth season)
Age: 40
NCAA appearances: One (2018)

Wes Miller, UNC Greensboro
Record: 129-113 (eighth season)
Age: 35
NCAA appearances: One (2018)

Earl Grant, College of Charleston
Record: 91-62 (fifth season)
Age: 42
NCAA appearances: One (2018)
 
I am disappointed in myself for even commenting on this. U wouldn't want a bunch of people at my work talking about who was taking my job. Here goes....Trouble in Texas, Shaka Smart?
 
[quote="L J S A" post=327553][quote="fordham96" post=327543]Chris took a wrong turn 3 years ago with the staff and recruiting strategy after the Slice thing blew up. He needs to fix that. And no we don't have to revisit Mike RIce. But it needs to be addressed. The current staff and recruiting strategy is not working.[/quote]

Does Mullin quit our of loyalty? Does he get pissy and recruit even less out of spite? Does Mitch get pissy and end friendship? Things can sometimes get weird when you have to fire a longtime friend.[/quote]

Agreed but I don't think money will be an issue with Chris. He didn't come back to SJU for money, he can make good money in NBA front offices. This was about returning SJU to a elite status in the Eastern basketball and being a consistent winner. That is why we cheered it. Or else why would he leave Cali? Seriously you think he came back to NY and SJU for this...3 years of terrible and 1 year of mediocre?

It is about competition. He came back to win and win big or else why do it? At some point he needs to ask himself is the current path/strategy going to work? If not do I have the energy to make the necessary changes to do it? If not then what I am doing here?
 
I honestly think it is going to be difficult to get a good assistant in here going forward unless he is local and is getting paid. My reasoning is if Mullin comes back and he has a bad year he will be gone after next season. Most assistant coaches will know this coming into the interview. They will want to be paid with a large amount of years on contract. Ideally as I believe someone mentioned last year would have been a good year to do it.

I am also wondering will Matt A stay? If he thinks ship is sinking he may leave to save face. Ideally Mitch needs to go, St. Jean needs to move to basketball OPS and then hire an additional recruiter and a good x and o guy who has head coaching experience. Still a few more games left in season but we are approaching decision time soon. Barring a run in NCAA or BIG EAST tourney championship this season has been a massive disappointment.
 
The thing is, tournament or not (barring some miracle run of course), we can all see the cracks in the foundation as I've indicated earlier. The cracks are the bad recruiting, lack of development, lack of a game plan, lack of a system, lack of cohesion, and losing games we have no business losing. I truly think what you are watching out there are a bunch of talented players playing street ball without real coaching. I don't think it matters if Fun was coaching the team. Couldn't be any worse. I'll always respect Mullin the legend and I'm glad he gave it a shot, but unfortunately we didn't get the Disney ending which most of us knew deep down was going to be a longshot.

We need a hungry younger coach like Hurley or Oats who can recruit consistently, keep 4 year players, and actually find several legitimate big men who can score and are not 160 lbs or soft. They're all over the place...they aren't hard to get, our current staff just makes it seem so. We learned the hard way that even with good guards, you still need at least 1 real big man and you need solid insurance if they get hurt. Yes, basketball is changing and it's getting more chuck and pray which de-emphasizes bigs, but in college you still need a few trees to have a real shot nationally. Purdue finds like 2-3 7 footers every few years. Maryland always has mammoths. Hell, Marist had more physically imposing bigs with more skill likely than ours. Bowling Green too. No one wants to keep rebuilding, but this is one of those situations where the bandaid needs to come off one way or another...might as well just rip it quickly.

By the way, I know Hurley wouldn't come cheap...but after our huge success attendance wise, maybe we have a few more nickels to rub together and a donor comes up big.
 
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What’s the difference between Lavin’s 4th year being bounced from NCAA’s and the year Mullin’s having? At least he made the tournament 2 out of 4 years! And I never was a fan of Lavin either.

CM should be canned barring a run in the next 2-3 weeks and it’s not purely based on results. This program needs a culture change in the worst way. It’s almost inconceivable a veteran team can still have a level of basketball IQ that is this low.
 
[quote="sirvoo" post=327584]What’s the difference between Lavin’s 4th year being bounced from NCAA’s and the year Mullin’s having? At least he made the tournament 2 out of 4 years! And I never was a fan of Lavin either.

CM should be canned barring a run in the next 2-3 weeks and it’s not purely based on results. This program needs a culture change in the worst way. It’s almost inconceivable a veteran team can still have a level of basketball IQ that is this low.[/quote]

You know we haven't had a real coach and a good culture in a long time when rebuilding teams and new coaches are running rings around you as a veteran team full of top notch talent. Nothing is logical with this team and that's more evidence of the incompetence. Nova teams make sense...they get better and they get more cohesive normally as the year goes on. Our teams never seem to for some reason. When we play bad Big East teams, we never know what's going to happen. When Nova does, they usually take care of business.

We are so overdue for some consistency. I looked the other day at how long coaches have been at some programs. Coach K and Boeheim since the 80's! Like early or mid 80's before I was born. And they're still there. I know that's probably because they're blue bloods, but it just makes our situation so much more frustrating. Eventually, someone has to right the ship. I truly think Oats can if he brings a top notch recruiter and Hurley could with time. I'll tell you what, I'd gladly give Oats or Hurley 10 years without flinching. Maybe neither wins immediately but over time they'd be solid coaches at worst.
 
If we do or don't get a bid is really not the question. With 3 games remaining we had a chance to control our own destiny and emphatically punch our ticket by winning at home vs. Xavier and on the road vs. DePaul. We failed to win either, and now will rely on the metrics of the selection committee. Fact is, if you don't win either or likely both of these games, you don't deserve to be in.

Injuries have certainly played a part in our bad fortunes, but despite all the clamoring to use more of our bench, when forced to because of these injuries, neither Trimble, nor Williams, nor Keita, or Roberts seemed ready to become prime time players and step it up. For that matter, neither Ponds, Clark, or Simon stepped it up either. While Figueroa had his moments, I tend to discount the first 35 minutes of a very good performance, if the last 5 or so are forgettable.

This will likely be a near miss season, but even if we eke out a bid, unless we recapture the energy that beat Villanova and Marquette 3 out of 4 times, we will be in and out early.

So, what do we do? Well, for one, Mullin came here to re-establish the program. With the best attendance in 27 seasons, including selling out the unattractive CA 7 times against the bottom part of the Big East and OOC games, the city has most definitely caught on and become SJU fans. It's not an accident that we averaged over 16,000 of mostly our own fans at MSG, and do you throw that away because this team wasn't good enough? Smart money says no.

I don't care how it gets done, but we simply need better players and more of them to compete at the highest levels of college basketball. Ponds at his best is an exhilarating, nearly unstoppable juggernaut who will slice you up from the outside, inside, dish, rebound and steal. When he's human, as he has been of late, he's G league material and an invite to NBA camps, not a draft pick. We simply didn't see enough of Heron at his best to know who the real Heron is. Clark is a complimentary player and a nice one, but the burden of playing bigger guys on a smaller team put him in trouble far too often. Simon often is MIA more than you'd like. Figgy is a high wire act with great instincts, but I'm not sure he is a marquee player at this point.

Best guess is we cross our fingers that Heron returns, say a few novenas that Ponds chooses SJU over Europe, and wait for next season. If Mullin were to leave, it would be his decision, but despite all the criticisms of coaching wold be a setback for the program if he were to depart now.
 
Agree MZ and it’s also incredible how much patience we have as a fan base. I just now turned on this guy after all this mediocrity!

These days it shouldn’t take more than 1 season to turn around a program. The idea that you need to build piece by piece and over a few years is antiquated. If you want an example look at what the Nevada coach has done. After 1 decent year he’s had them in the tourney 3 years in a row. Granted his players are brawling in the tunnel after losses but that’s a trade off I think we’re all willing to make!
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=327587][quote="sirvoo" post=327584]What’s the difference between Lavin’s 4th year being bounced from NCAA’s and the year Mullin’s having? At least he made the tournament 2 out of 4 years! And I never was a fan of Lavin either.

CM should be canned barring a run in the next 2-3 weeks and it’s not purely based on results. This program needs a culture change in the worst way. It’s almost inconceivable a veteran team can still have a level of basketball IQ that is this low.[/quote]

You know we haven't had a real coach and a good culture in a long time when rebuilding teams and new coaches are running rings around you as a veteran team full of top notch talent. Nothing is logical with this team and that's more evidence of the incompetence. Nova teams make sense...they get better and they get more cohesive normally as the year goes on. Our teams never seem to for some reason. When we play bad Big East teams, we never know what's going to happen. When Nova does, they usually take care of business.

We are so overdue for some consistency. I looked the other day at how long coaches have been at some programs. Coach K and Boeheim since the 80's! Like early or mid 80's before I was born. And they're still there. I know that's probably because they're blue bloods, but it just makes our situation so much more frustrating. Eventually, someone has to right the ship. I truly think Oats can if he brings a top notch recruiter and Hurley could with time. I'll tell you what, I'd gladly give Oats or Hurley 10 years without flinching. Maybe neither wins immediately but over time they'd be solid coaches at worst.[/quote]

Why do you keep mentioning Hurley? He's got a 6 year deal worth $18 million at UCONN. Why in God's name would he come here? His 1st season is 5-11 in conference 13-14 overall. Think UCONN fans are happy with that in terms of ROI? Yea, it's a rebuilding year, but .. Maybe you mean Bobby?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=327590]If we do or don't get a bid is really not the question. With 3 games remaining we had a chance to control our own destiny and emphatically punch our ticket by winning at home vs. Xavier and on the road vs. DePaul. We failed to win either, and now will rely on the metrics of the selection committee. Fact is, if you don't win either or likely both of these games, you don't deserve to be in.

Injuries have certainly played a part in our bad fortunes, but despite all the clamoring to use more of our bench, when forced to because of these injuries, neither Trimble, nor Williams, nor Keita, or Roberts seemed ready to become prime time players and step it up. For that matter, neither Ponds, Clark, or Simon stepped it up either. While Figueroa had his moments, I tend to discount the first 35 minutes of a very good performance, if the last 5 or so are forgettable.

This will likely be a near miss season, but even if we eke out a bid, unless we recapture the energy that beat Villanova and Marquette 3 out of 4 times, we will be in and out early.

So, what do we do? Well, for one, Mullin came here to re-establish the program. With the best attendance in 27 seasons, including selling out the unattractive CA 7 times against the bottom part of the Big East and OOC games, the city has most definitely caught on and become SJU fans. It's not an accident that we averaged over 16,000 of mostly our own fans at MSG, and do you throw that away because this team wasn't good enough? Smart money says no.

I don't care how it gets done, but we simply need better players and more of them to compete at the highest levels of college basketball. Ponds at his best is an exhilarating, nearly unstoppable juggernaut who will slice you up from the outside, inside, dish, rebound and steal. When he's human, as he has been of late, he's G league material and an invite to NBA camps, not a draft pick. We simply didn't see enough of Heron at his best to know who the real Heron is. Clark is a complimentary player and a nice one, but the burden of playing bigger guys on a smaller team put him in trouble far too often. Simon often is MIA more than you'd like. Figgy is a high wire act with great instincts, but I'm not sure he is a marquee player at this point.

Best guess is we cross our fingers that Heron returns, say a few novenas that Ponds chooses SJU over Europe, and wait for next season. If Mullin were to leave, it would be his decision, but despite all the criticisms of coaching wold be a setback for the program if he were to depart now.[/quote]

Of course it would be a setback temporarily, but so would leaving someone in a toxic relationship. The key word is "temporarily". Arrows need to be pulled back before they move forward. If you know something isn't working, why keep doing the same thing? The definition of insanity...well you get it. Attendance has been great, but does that keep up with all the underachieving? A big part of that was Mullin but another big part was that we were supposed to have a ridiculously talented roster. National pundits were talking about how insane our guards were. If we can't even make the tournament or barely eke it out with this roster with all the experience, what do we do next year when we have much less talent? We were all clamoring for big men for years...didn't happen. We were all clamoring for a staff change for years...didn't happen. Too little too late IMO. G'Town, Xavier, PC, Creighton, Marquette, Butler, and Nova are all surely going to be better next year. We have zero chance with much less talent.

By the way, who cares if we have the best attendance in the nation if we have an awful product on the court? You really think the attendance continues if we are nowhere near the tourney again? Before this season the attendance wasn't anything special save for a few games in the Mullin era from what I've seen.

And yes, Bobby Hurley!
 
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[quote="sirvoo" post=327584]What’s the difference between Lavin’s 4th year being bounced from NCAA’s and the year Mullin’s having? At least he made the tournament 2 out of 4 years! And I never was a fan of Lavin either.

CM should be canned barring a run in the next 2-3 weeks and it’s not purely based on results. This program needs a culture change in the worst way. It’s almost inconceivable a veteran team can still have a level of basketball IQ that is this low.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. It is mind boggling how low the level of basketball IQ is. The turnovers, the lack of focus, the non-committal Defense, the technical fouls, the cheap fouls are all consistent with low level IQ. Also, now every team knows to pound us inside so they can go to the free throw line 45 times while we hoist 3's. To turn it around we need players with higher BBall IQ and a much more balanced roster. We needs Bigs, back up point guards, knock down shooters sprinkled with a few studs each year. Barring that we are what we see, a very flawed program. I actually couldn't watch the game the other day. I would rather pull weeds than watch that team. Even without a legitimate big we could try to throw different looks to stop the bleeding but we continue to throw one look at every team and hope our 3 point shooting wins the game for us. This is another low point of which I did not expect this year.
 
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[quote="SJ_NYC" post=327600]Great post Beast. To force a coaching now, would be an utter disaster.[/quote]

Do you mean now as in literally now or after the season? Mullin has plenty of money, would it really be that shocking if he walked away from 2 Mil? Sounds like by all accounts Cragg will try to force a change. We will learn how stubborn he really is after the season. If Mullin walks away so we don't owe the 2 Mil and we end up with Oats/Hurley with at least LJ staying anyway, that would be best case scenario IMO. He's worth about $18 mil...not exactly hurting for cash.
 
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