my only concern was Jordan 9 turnovers. hope he played for St. John's and not for himself ,like Sampson last year. the praise he received on t.v., all tournament, etc. and all I was thinking of ,why was he not thinking of finding the open man when doubled and sometimes tripled teamed . only 1 assist , I wished he played like Pointer who did find the open man when he did not have the shot. please tell me I am wrong
Gonzaga
- Thread starter NYCRedmen
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beast of the east
Active member
Jordan shot 5-10 in the 1st half and announcers were raving that he was the best guard they had seen this season. He followed that up with a 1-6 second half.
Harrison continues to hit the glass, 6 rebounds this time, but a 4-16 effort from the field hurts us.
Considering the height of Gonzaga's front line, we held our own off the boards, yet Karnowski and Sabonis combined for 11-14 from the field.
It was a really nice effort and our guys didn't back down. Lack of size this season won't be our undoing as much as the inability to consistently knock down shots. I think we are improved but small teams cannot survive with sometimes questionable shot selection and inability to knock down good looks.
All in all a good effort against a top flight team. There will be nights where we play well AND shoot well and are able to beat top teams. However, it is very hard to beat any team, no less a top 10 team, with a three guard offense, when your three guards take 48 of your team's 60 shots, and only make 18
Harrison continues to hit the glass, 6 rebounds this time, but a 4-16 effort from the field hurts us.
Considering the height of Gonzaga's front line, we held our own off the boards, yet Karnowski and Sabonis combined for 11-14 from the field.
It was a really nice effort and our guys didn't back down. Lack of size this season won't be our undoing as much as the inability to consistently knock down shots. I think we are improved but small teams cannot survive with sometimes questionable shot selection and inability to knock down good looks.
All in all a good effort against a top flight team. There will be nights where we play well AND shoot well and are able to beat top teams. However, it is very hard to beat any team, no less a top 10 team, with a three guard offense, when your three guards take 48 of your team's 60 shots, and only make 18
If you hate blaming the refs, then don't. Great effort by a group I have maligned in that area since they came. The negatives. Obepka had the softest and cheapest fouls you can have but they were fouls; reaching, reaching, reaching. Jordan, come on, 9 turnovers, not even looking to pass. We proved again just how dumb, poorly coached a basketball team we are. The positives, again, the commitment to playing hard. especially Harrison and Pointer on the D; outstanding efforts. Finally, putting someone (Pointer) on the foul line against a zone. Thoroughly enjoyed the heart and comeback and the Garden rocked at the end even 1/3 full. On to the next one.
beast of the east
Active member
I think these types of fouls are something that CO can reduce over time, but he is not your prototypical, hulking presence in the middle. He's an agile, mobile, always in motion athlete, and considering he is our only physical presence down low, because of his mobility will pick up contact and touch fouls that other guys wouldn't. Even when he blocks shots, his arms are often not extended straight up, but are draped over the ball more at a 90 degree angle to his body, then the ideal 180 degrees that avoids the possibility of a foul call. He is what he is, though, and I'm afraid that on many nights he will have trouble logging 25 minutes of floor time because of fouls.
I attended the game with my son. Just a few thoughts.
1- I will not tell others how to spend their money. However, we saw two decent games for a reasonable price. Too bad we don't get more fan support.
2- I am not in "the we played hard tonight" crowd. After watching Gonzaga this was a very winnable game. I thought the main problem was we didn't have enough big bodies. Period end of story. I didn't see anything special about Zags front line of Karnowski and Sabonis. However, Zags had more of them. More fouls to give. The size and length killed us when Obekpa got in foul trouble. This will be fatal flaw for this team all season.
3- Our players clearly give effort. Unfortunately, this leads to many "forced" plays and poor decisions.
4- This was a horribly officiated game for this level. I will not blame the calls for the loss. I think they were equally poor for both sides. I think it hurts us more since we tend to "force" the action and had less fouls to give.
5- Just an observation on the Zags and Kevin Pangos. I must admit I thought we had no chance going in. After watching the game I think we could have won. Pangos disappeared for most of the night and he did not kill us from 3 as expected. I think the Zags are good but deeper teams will give them trouble.
Overall, just another disappointing missed opportunity for us.
1- I will not tell others how to spend their money. However, we saw two decent games for a reasonable price. Too bad we don't get more fan support.
2- I am not in "the we played hard tonight" crowd. After watching Gonzaga this was a very winnable game. I thought the main problem was we didn't have enough big bodies. Period end of story. I didn't see anything special about Zags front line of Karnowski and Sabonis. However, Zags had more of them. More fouls to give. The size and length killed us when Obekpa got in foul trouble. This will be fatal flaw for this team all season.
3- Our players clearly give effort. Unfortunately, this leads to many "forced" plays and poor decisions.
4- This was a horribly officiated game for this level. I will not blame the calls for the loss. I think they were equally poor for both sides. I think it hurts us more since we tend to "force" the action and had less fouls to give.
5- Just an observation on the Zags and Kevin Pangos. I must admit I thought we had no chance going in. After watching the game I think we could have won. Pangos disappeared for most of the night and he did not kill us from 3 as expected. I think the Zags are good but deeper teams will give them trouble.
Overall, just another disappointing missed opportunity for us.
TRabinowitz
Member
Just finished watching the game on replay. Impressive and surprising to see the guys come back with Obekpa out.
Do NOT count me in the "they played hard" crowd. It is year 5 with juniors and seniors. You either win the game or you don't win the game. We "played hard" and "fought" last year vs. Cuse, vs. Nova, @ Nova, and @ Creighton in similar fashion and lost them all. Gotta win the games. This is not CYO basketball and we shouldn't be giving out participation medals.
The officiating was poor and we got the short end of it down the stretch for the most part but ya know what? We got a TON of calls in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half vs. Minnesota that helped us chip away at that lead, come back and win that game. It evened itself out here.
Dom played well again, all because he is FINALLY playing to his strengths and it looks like the staff has put him in a position he should be playing in.
The staff needs to re-calibrate Rysheed's thinking as he drives the basketball but he also shouldn't be handcuffed. He needs his head up, on a swivel, and to make the smart play. However I do love his aggressiveness and ultimately we need that to use our quickness and make up for our lack of front court. He made some really boneheaded decisions but I think if staff can help him get his mind right he'll be better.
I think D'Lo's shooting along with our poor FT shooting will improve honestly. Mightve been caused by our guys pressing a bit. Also hoping that Phil's finally-.500 game from the field will get him going after an abysmal shooting start to the year.
As for the attendance, you have to win in this town to get people out. And beating a mid-to-latter Big Ten team in Minnesota doesn't qualify as a big win to generate buzz. If we beat a few known good teams and THEN still don't get fan support, we can then gripe. But again, gotta win the games.
Do NOT count me in the "they played hard" crowd. It is year 5 with juniors and seniors. You either win the game or you don't win the game. We "played hard" and "fought" last year vs. Cuse, vs. Nova, @ Nova, and @ Creighton in similar fashion and lost them all. Gotta win the games. This is not CYO basketball and we shouldn't be giving out participation medals.
The officiating was poor and we got the short end of it down the stretch for the most part but ya know what? We got a TON of calls in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half vs. Minnesota that helped us chip away at that lead, come back and win that game. It evened itself out here.
Dom played well again, all because he is FINALLY playing to his strengths and it looks like the staff has put him in a position he should be playing in.
The staff needs to re-calibrate Rysheed's thinking as he drives the basketball but he also shouldn't be handcuffed. He needs his head up, on a swivel, and to make the smart play. However I do love his aggressiveness and ultimately we need that to use our quickness and make up for our lack of front court. He made some really boneheaded decisions but I think if staff can help him get his mind right he'll be better.
I think D'Lo's shooting along with our poor FT shooting will improve honestly. Mightve been caused by our guys pressing a bit. Also hoping that Phil's finally-.500 game from the field will get him going after an abysmal shooting start to the year.
As for the attendance, you have to win in this town to get people out. And beating a mid-to-latter Big Ten team in Minnesota doesn't qualify as a big win to generate buzz. If we beat a few known good teams and THEN still don't get fan support, we can then gripe. But again, gotta win the games.
P
We remain a abysmal shooting team. I am beating a dead horse, but we generate most of our scoring off turnovers. A team that shoots as poorly as we do has to scrap, hope to make a lot of steals & force turnovers. Not a recipe for sustained success. Butler may be an "athelitically" challenged squad (whatever that means), but they have several guys who can make open shots. We pale in comparison. I prefer that to highlight reel plays, but I guess we have to go with what we have.
We remain a abysmal shooting team. I am beating a dead horse, but we generate most of our scoring off turnovers. A team that shoots as poorly as we do has to scrap, hope to make a lot of steals & force turnovers. Not a recipe for sustained success. Butler may be an "athelitically" challenged squad (whatever that means), but they have several guys who can make open shots. We pale in comparison. I prefer that to highlight reel plays, but I guess we have to go with what we have.
An alternative take on the Gonzaga game:http://www.bigeastboards.com/
This may all be true, but if we hit a three at the end and one more free throw, this could have been a huge win. And, the naysayers can save the coulda, woulda, shoulda comments. My point is that we didn't need to shoot lights out to win last night against a top 10 team. We just needed to make another play or two. Certainly, if we do more of what you're suggesting Beast, then the margin for error is much larger. I'm just glad we're seeing that we're not that far off and it's early in the season, which is saying something for our notoriously slow starting team.
On a side note, I was under the basket with a group of 7 last night and we had a good time. The crowd was loud for such a poor turnout. We've seen that before with these early season tournaments. Oh well. On to Niagara.
It's refreshing to see the optimism on this board and I like some of the things that I see on the court, mainly the improved play of Dom and Chris. But the reality is that this is playing out like last year's team, some early season scares against smaller schools and near upsets against top schools. It's a long season and they'll need to improve as the season goes on if the have any chance to make the tourny.
The real question is can we improve our zone offense. Enjoyed the game & salute the effort, but we just don't shoot well enough to beat the big boys, let alone on the road. Cuse will be a tough one. Before I die can we get a couple of shooters?
Right on, Syracuse's zone will be much, much harder then Gonzaga. They will force us to throw up three pointers, especially since it's harder to penetrate. Have to use Pointer on the foul line with Obekpa floating back and forth underneath.
Perhaps by Saturday their zone will improve, but so far this year it hasn't been very good. I'm glad we get them now when their zone is still a work in progress, and so soon after the Gonzaga game so we can test what we're learning. We are more than capable of beating this Cuse team, but will need to play smart and execute a little more consistently than last night, especially on the road.