Coach Lav's contract

I agree that it's unfair to label a fan that points out certain fair criticisms of Coach Lavin as a "hater" (FWIW I had just finished moving the other day, had a couple, and read posts a bit too harshly, sorry about that). But I also think many have long ago made up their mind and wait until the moments that make their narrative to pounce on the coach. Maybe that's not fair either. However, I truly believe that recruiting is the most fluid and unpredictable part of that position. It seems that today's student athlete changes his mind and is a total front runner before, after, and during recruiting and enrollment. I have no idea if we have a player until he's actually on the floor (see this year's, um, class). It serves little purpose for me personally to speculate, grade, or otherwise worry until the recruiting period until it actually ends (and too frequently if they qualify). I certainly don't do it mid season. Perhaps that's why I don't understand why others belabor the point while we were enjoying a so far enjoyable season. We lost a kid to coach Cal that is clearly looking to his NBA future, so we kill the coach. We also kill the coach for having players on the roster who only care about their NBA futures and play accordingly.
 
My point is unless St. John's wants to fire Coach Lavin, they should extend. Coach stability is vital in recruiting and will always be used against a coach. That variable, along with the complete failure of the fan base to attend games, can be influenced by a coach but not controlled. IU fans have hated Crean, Sampson, and Davis - but they show up.
 
My point is unless St. John's wants to fire Coach Lavin, they should extend. Coach stability is vital in recruiting and will always be used against a coach. That variable, along with the complete failure of the fan base to attend games, can be influenced by a coach but not controlled. IU fans have hated Crean, Sampson, and Davis - but they show up.
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I don't think it's quite as simple as you make it out to be. I believe that for SJU it will be a matter of the value they are getting back on a $2 million plus investment. Would they be entertaining even remote thoughts of replacing Lavin if he were being paid say $1.3 million? - No way, in my opinion. I think when the season is over, they will weigh everything and try to decide whether they've seen enough to warrant a contract extension that would probably average $2.5 million per over 4 years.
 
My point is unless St. John's wants to fire Coach Lavin, they should extend. Coach stability is vital in recruiting and will always be used against a coach. That variable, along with the complete failure of the fan base to attend games, can be influenced by a coach but not controlled. IU fans have hated Crean, Sampson, and Davis - but they show up.
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I don't think it's quite as simple as you make it out to be. I believe that for SJU it will be a matter of the value they are getting back on a $2 million plus investment. Would they be entertaining even remote thoughts of replacing Lavin if he were being paid say $1.3 million? - No way, in my opinion. I think when the season is over, they will weigh everything and try to decide whether they've seen enough to warrant a contract extension that would probably average $2.5 million per over 4 years.
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Agreed Beast. I think return on investment is a factor than many are overlooking. High ranked recruiting classes, good face of the program, nice guy, getting kids to the NBA, being a mentor to the kids, etc. etc. are all secondary factors IMO. The bottom line is the bottom line:Lavin is being paid an awful lot of money to have our team be consistently successful by whatever standards the administration has established. I would assume that means making the NCAA tourney most years, just as most of us expect. Excuses aside, he has yet to prove that he can do that. The reality is that the average fan doesn't care about all the secondary factors, they are not going to pay top dollar to watch an inferior product. I think the question boils down to whether the administration believes that Lavin has the ability to put a good product on the court most years moving forward. I expect they'll see how this season plays out and then make that call shortly after the season ends.
 
Bye bye Lavin. 1 NCAA appearance and you want to keep him.
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Has your knee stopped jerking yet? :) Relax. It's a long season and the ride should be fun. Enjoy it.
Happy New Year!
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Yes Beast , and as newsman13 reflected just before your post, the dogs will come out after every single loss - my question is obvious:

who let the dogs out?And what's the breed???

It's like - rather than celebrating what's occurring - getting frustrated because your wife only carried one baby rather than twins…hope that analogy is not offending anyone, couldn't think of an alternative one
but since there will be other losses, no one knows how many…and likely unexpected "W"s :)

let's enjoy the season as it is and as it unfolds - (I'm really reminding myself)
health and joy to all my fellow posters - such a fine insightul, passionate and caring group - and pleasant solutions to all your/my current woes
& of course, all the best
 
My point is unless St. John's wants to fire Coach Lavin, they should extend. Coach stability is vital in recruiting and will always be used against a coach. That variable, along with the complete failure of the fan base to attend games, can be influenced by a coach but not controlled. IU fans have hated Crean, Sampson, and Davis - but they show up.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite as simple as you make it out to be. I believe that for SJU it will be a matter of the value they are getting back on a $2 million plus investment. Would they be entertaining even remote thoughts of replacing Lavin if he were being paid say $1.3 million? - No way, in my opinion. I think when the season is over, they will weigh everything and try to decide whether they've seen enough to warrant a contract extension that would probably average $2.5 million per over 4 years.
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Couldn't agree with you more, Beast. I think Gempesaw will look at all of the factors and make the right decision for the university going forward.
 
My point is unless St. John's wants to fire Coach Lavin, they should extend. Coach stability is vital in recruiting and will always be used against a coach. That variable, along with the complete failure of the fan base to attend games, can be influenced by a coach but not controlled. IU fans have hated Crean, Sampson, and Davis - but they show up.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite as simple as you make it out to be. I believe that for SJU it will be a matter of the value they are getting back on a $2 million plus investment. Would they be entertaining even remote thoughts of replacing Lavin if he were being paid say $1.3 million? - No way, in my opinion. I think when the season is over, they will weigh everything and try to decide whether they've seen enough to warrant a contract extension that would probably average $2.5 million per over 4 years.
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Couldn't agree with you more, Beast. I think Gempesaw will look at all of the factors and make the right decision for the university going forward.
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Thank you. Actually if Steve was so inclined to stay because he loved SJU and NYC so much, if he were to agree to 5 years , $8 million, I think I would go for that right now if I was in charge, which of course I think I should be :)

Happy New Year.
 
My point is unless St. John's wants to fire Coach Lavin, they should extend. Coach stability is vital in recruiting and will always be used against a coach. That variable, along with the complete failure of the fan base to attend games, can be influenced by a coach but not controlled. IU fans have hated Crean, Sampson, and Davis - but they show up.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite as simple as you make it out to be. I believe that for SJU it will be a matter of the value they are getting back on a $2 million plus investment. Would they be entertaining even remote thoughts of replacing Lavin if he were being paid say $1.3 million? - No way, in my opinion. I think when the season is over, they will weigh everything and try to decide whether they've seen enough to warrant a contract extension that would probably average $2.5 million per over 4 years.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more, Beast. I think Gempesaw will look at all of the factors and make the right decision for the university going forward.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Actually if Steve was so inclined to stay because he loved SJU and NYC so much, if he were to agree to 5 years , $8 million, I think I would go for that right now if I was in charge, which of course I think I should be :)

Happy New Year.
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Throw in incentives and I think you are in the conversation.
 
Pay him less and he will work less and give you what you pay for and we can't afford to get lesser results.
 
Pay him less and he will work less and give you what you pay for and we can't afford to get lesser results.
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Not if there are incentives in the contract.
 
The idea that he would agree to coach but give less effort if paid less shows a low opinion of his charactor
 
My point is unless St. John's wants to fire Coach Lavin, they should extend. Coach stability is vital in recruiting and will always be used against a coach. That variable, along with the complete failure of the fan base to attend games, can be influenced by a coach but not controlled. IU fans have hated Crean, Sampson, and Davis - but they show up.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite as simple as you make it out to be. I believe that for SJU it will be a matter of the value they are getting back on a $2 million plus investment. Would they be entertaining even remote thoughts of replacing Lavin if he were being paid say $1.3 million? - No way, in my opinion. I think when the season is over, they will weigh everything and try to decide whether they've seen enough to warrant a contract extension that would probably average $2.5 million per over 4 years.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more, Beast. I think Gempesaw will look at all of the factors and make the right decision for the university going forward.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Actually if Steve was so inclined to stay because he loved SJU and NYC so much, if he were to agree to 5 years , $8 million, I think I would go for that right now if I was in charge, which of course I think I should be :)

Happy New Year.
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Throw in incentives and I think you are in the conversation.
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JSJ, do you know what the NCAA limits/rules on incentives are?
 
I don't.

Didn't even realize there were any, to be honest.
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JSJ, I'm thinking that unlike a professional contract, where you can reward things like All-star, MVP, championships, in college you can't put incentives like NCAA bid, Final Four, BE championship, etc in explicit terms. Of course you can tear up a contract and write a new one based on satisfaction and achievement of those objectives, but not explicitly so. That's just an intelligent guess.

I PM'd you a few days ago. Check your messages.
 
I don't.

Didn't even realize there were any, to be honest.
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JSJ, I'm thinking that unlike a professional contract, where you can reward things like All-star, MVP, championships, in college you can't put incentives like NCAA bid, Final Four, BE championship, etc in explicit terms. Of course you can tear up a contract and write a new one based on satisfaction and achievement of those objectives, but not explicitly so. That's just an intelligent guess.

I PM'd you a few days ago. Check your messages.
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You can have tons of incentives.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...smarts-new-contract-at-virginia-commonwealth/
 
I don't.

Didn't even realize there were any, to be honest.
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JSJ, I'm thinking that unlike a professional contract, where you can reward things like All-star, MVP, championships, in college you can't put incentives like NCAA bid, Final Four, BE championship, etc in explicit terms. Of course you can tear up a contract and write a new one based on satisfaction and achievement of those objectives, but not explicitly so. That's just an intelligent guess.

I PM'd you a few days ago. Check your messages.
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You can have tons of incentives.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...smarts-new-contract-at-virginia-commonwealth/
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Great link, Moose. Now I'm going to guess that you are no fan of Lavin, and would not want to extend him under any circumstances or price at this point, correct?
 
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