Coach Lav's contract

In Lavin we have a coach with almost unique ethics and courage. He risked - and lost- a chance at the NCAA's to teach his best player a life lesson - knowing that he also risked D'lo leaving. How many division 1 coaches do you think would have done that? Along the way it taught everyone on the team as well. Maybe a few fans got it, too - the kids are what're most important. Without question. Five seniors graduate - six months early. Young men - and a coach - I can truly root for.
Click to expand...

While your message is nice and had good intentions, it is not the reality of the situation. In today's world, it is all about winning, and that's the bottom line. You can say it's all about the kids, and that's what most important, but does anyone really care whatever happened to Lamont Hamilton, Eugene Lawrence, Showtime Hill, Justin Burrell, etc...? Who is honestly going to sit there and be like, "well we completely sucked at basketball, but at least Curtis Johnson got a degree in business management." (and I have no idea what his major was).

The moment you start with that attitude, is the moment your program goes downhill. I think that that was one of Norm's biggest downfalls. He tried way to hard to develop fine young gentlemen, rather than develop fine young basketball players.

A coach's job is to win games....with a little character development on the side.
 
As Paultz said, I think it is fair to wait until years end to see what final results are. With that said, if we get off to a ridiculously hot start to Big East play, like 6-0 or something, I would not blame the SJU administration if they explored an extension at that time.

We have exceeded expectations this season and I think a few negatives that have happened have turned into positives:

1) Not having Keith Thomas or Adonis has forced Lavin to settle on a starting lineup and play Dom at the 4, which, IMO has been the biggest change from last year. If those 2 were in the rotation I have a feeling we would be seeing much more "experimenting" which would've hurt the team.

2) On the same topic, Jakarr leaving has definitely been addition by subtraction in terms of toughness defensively and ball movement offensively.

With all that said, we are still extremely fragile if an injury were to occur with D'Lo, Dom or Chris. Also, despite being ranked 15th we have yet to beat a ranked team. Let's see how this season continues to play out, but if we continue to play really well, become a lock for the NCAA Tourny over the next few weeks, and can leverage that on the recruiting trail then I am ok with the admin having those negotiations for an extension.
 
Entering into what turned out to be Jarvis' last season I was so disgusted and embarrassed by what the team had become, I gave up my prized season tickets. I didn't care if the team went 30-0. This wasn't a team or a coach or a program I could or would root for. Wins are not everything.

In Lavin we have a coach with almost unique ethics and courage. He risked - and lost- a chance at the NCAA's to teach his best player a life lesson - knowing that he also risked D'lo leaving. How many division 1 coaches do you think would have done that? Along the way it taught everyone on the team as well. Maybe a few fans got it, too - the kids are what're most important. Without question. Five seniors graduate - six months early. Young men - and a coach - I can truly root for.

And the basketball ain't bad either. Lavin can flat out coach. I think 3 dances out of 4 are probably more likely than 1 of 4 going forward. I'd settle for 2. I don't want to be Kentucky, and I certainly don't want to be Carolina. I want to be proud to be a Johnnies fan.

There are people that will always find something not to like. Coming into this year it was he had to make the NCAA's. That looks likely, so now it's his recruiting for next year. If that falls into place, it'll be something else. There are people who are just like that. Guess they can't help it.

Sign Lavin up for as long as possible... and consider us lucky to have him.
Click to expand...

Let's be fair. All of those ethics, rules, and attributes were present at the end of the Robert Morris NIT game, and no one in their right mind was extending him then. So we are 11-1, have played 3 games against similar level competition (Gonzaga, Syracuse, Minn) and won two of them. There are plenty of reasons to be enthused. But guaranteed if we happen to get whupped aginast Seton Hall and Butler, about 75% of the extend Lavin now guys will jump off that wagon and talk about firing we lost at home to Nova as well. Let it all play out. We aren't in a desperate situation.
 
In Lavin we have a coach with almost unique ethics and courage. He risked - and lost- a chance at the NCAA's to teach his best player a life lesson - knowing that he also risked D'lo leaving. How many division 1 coaches do you think would have done that? Along the way it taught everyone on the team as well. Maybe a few fans got it, too - the kids are what're most important. Without question. Five seniors graduate - six months early. Young men - and a coach - I can truly root for.
Click to expand...

While your message is nice and had good intentions, it is not the reality of the situation. In today's world, it is all about winning, and that's the bottom line. You can say it's all about the kids, and that's what most important, but does anyone really care whatever happened to Lamont Hamilton, Eugene Lawrence, Showtime Hill, Justin Burrell, etc...? Who is honestly going to sit there and be like, "well we completely sucked at basketball, but at least Curtis Johnson got a degree in business management." (and I have no idea what his major was).

The moment you start with that attitude, is the moment your program goes downhill. I think that that was one of Norm's biggest downfalls. He tried way to hard to develop fine young gentlemen, rather than develop fine young basketball players.

A coach's job is to win games....with a little character development on the side.[/quote

If your premise were true - that it's one or the other - I'd be saddened. But it's not. Lavin has made it clear that the kids are paramount AND we're becoming relevant again. AND we're #15. AND we're getting incredible pub - seen the CBS front page recently? AND seniors graduate (early!) AND represent St. John's brilliantly - both on and off the court.

I don't follow the kids after college. But I want to know that while they were here they were treated the way I'd want my son to be treated. Not used and their best interests considered secondary to wins. Even if that's what's usually done in most high-level programs.

You may not care - that's your right. Maybe most fans don't. Certainly they don't at Carolina, or Kentucky. Makes me proud that Lavin works to do both. And that when it is indeed 'one or the other' -wins or the kids - as with D'lo 3 years ago, he makes the right, much, much harder choice. Not your choice, perhaps, but one I support utterly.

Overall, it's clearly not 'one or the other'. Lavin's making that clear. Right now, we've got both. Worth getting real excited about what's happening on - and off - the court. Worth trying to keep going as long as we can.
Click to expand...
 
Stability.

[...] and is more successful already then Norm, Mahoney, and to me, even Jarvis, who had some good years/teams, but also left a lot of issues behind.
Click to expand...

To be fair, he did leave the program in an awful position, but Jarvis had 3 NCAA appearances (including the Elite 8 run) and an NIT
championship in his five full seasons.


Lavin can't come close to that yet.
Click to expand...

Great lists and discussions here, wow!

If I'm not mistaken, some of Jarvis' success came with Ff's recruits and Jarvis did so much damage alienating local coaches, his smugness distasteful to many...

Raising problems is one thing...many are adept at that...finding palatable solutions is more challenging and few succeed here.

Does anyone, for example, believe that Coach Lavin wants anything but success? Could anyone discount the significant challenges he and this program faced after the Jarvis-Roberts dark ages?

The well discussed cancer and Harkless/Sampson departures cannot be minumalized! Would any of us cope better than Steve with a major illness and operation if we put ourselves in his shoes?

If he gets decent recruits including a top JC or two - and maintains our emphasis on defensive prowess, why could we not compete next year BUT of course enjoy the present wonder...

And possibly the most important part of the equation equalling keep Steve Lavin = there is absolutely no one better interested in the position. I feel fortunate we have this classy man: at once magnetic, experienced and with type A basketball blood in his veins!

Americans are entitled to personal opinions (come on now SS&G, will you please refrain from political palaver) but some wanted to dump Abe Lincoln who at his height would have made all pro front court!!!

Let's go red storm! and
all the best
SS&G
 
In Lavin we have a coach with almost unique ethics and courage. He risked - and lost- a chance at the NCAA's to teach his best player a life lesson - knowing that he also risked D'lo leaving. How many division 1 coaches do you think would have done that? Along the way it taught everyone on the team as well. Maybe a few fans got it, too - the kids are what're most important. Without question. Five seniors graduate - six months early. Young men - and a coach - I can truly root for.
Click to expand...

While your message is nice and had good intentions, it is not the reality of the situation. In today's world, it is all about winning, and that's the bottom line. You can say it's all about the kids, and that's what most important, but does anyone really care whatever happened to Lamont Hamilton, Eugene Lawrence, Showtime Hill, Justin Burrell, etc...? Who is honestly going to sit there and be like, "well we completely sucked at basketball, but at least Curtis Johnson got a degree in business management." (and I have no idea what his major was).

The moment you start with that attitude, is the moment your program goes downhill. I think that that was one of Norm's biggest downfalls. He tried way to hard to develop fine young gentlemen, rather than develop fine young basketball players.

A coach's job is to win games....with a little character development on the side.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you in principle on this, JP, our circumstances have been different.

After the Jarvis years and Fran's poor judgement, the pendulum swung far, far, far to the "character development" end of the spectrum.

Norm, for all his shortcomings, kept the program clean enough to make administration happy. Lav has pulled us another couple of steps closer to becoming a winning program again.

So, yes, the short answer is that a coach's job is to win games, but a longer view might explain why we are where we are.
 
The comment was relevant to the conversation. Lavin has done more with less.

Louie left a legacy of tough teams that fought and contended every year. They were teams that year after year left you thinking, even if we never achieved it, that we could win the whole thing. If you don't think the Hall of Fame coach and his teams that won multiple BE championships left a legacy your entitled to that opinion for what its worth.....




I don't want to get into this Jarvis thing again...but this team has NEVER had an "incredible" legacy to feed off. The only thing that's "incredible" to me is some think two final fours in our history and no NCAA championships is special. The loss of the NIT and all the games from the win column, I believe, was a Father Harrington overreaction. We should probably lobby to get those games back.

Back to the subject...I thought Lavin would bring more to the table than he did. I guess I was a bit out of touch. On the other hand, there aren't very many coaches who could do more. I doubt the administration would bring them here, anyway. From that standpoint, I say give Lavin a nice extension.[/quote]
 
Seems like a lot of people are caught up in the moment.

Nothing has been accomplished as of yet to justify an extension IMO.

He needs to make the NCAA tournament, period. That is what he and every coach in America is paid to do.

The stability argument is a flawed one since a recruiting cycle was basically taken off. Stability would've been showing 2015 recruits that the cupboards wouldn't be bare when they arrive.

Enjoy the season and just win.

But any school president handing out extensions prior to conference play is usually reserved for mid-majors hoping to deter high-majors from soliciting a hot head coach (see: Hurley).

I think it would be a major mistake to extend him "in the moment".
 
I would hope that the people responsible for offering the extension have in mind what must the record be at the end of Jan. to earn the ext. This could give a boost to recruiting. I'm sure the other schools involved with our possible recruits are saying Lavin is not coming back.
I feel the program is at a critical point and I think if Lavin doesn't earn the extension we will be less relevant than ever based on the following;
1 When Lavin took the job the other candidates seemed to be mid major types and SJU was a member of the strongest league in history
2 In the NYC sports environment college BB is low man on the totem pole and Lavin is schooled at getting some air time which is desperately needed. Is there anybody out there who would recognize any of the other local college coaches if they ran into them?
 
I would hope that the people responsible for offering the extension have in mind what must the record be at the end of Jan. to earn the ext. This could give a boost to recruiting. I'm sure the other schools involved with our possible recruits are saying Lavin is not coming back.
I feel the program is at a critical point and I think if Lavin doesn't earn the extension we will be less relevant than ever based on the following;
1 When Lavin took the job the other candidates seemed to be mid major types and SJU was a member of the strongest league in history
2 In the NYC sports environment college BB is low man on the totem pole and Lavin is schooled at getting some air time which is desperately needed. Is there anybody out there who would recognize any of the other local college coaches if they ran into them?
Click to expand...

I want to see us with a good winning record in confer and a top 10 recruiting class in 2015 and making the tourney this yr . Then he more than deserves an ext
 
In Lavin we have a coach with almost unique ethics and courage. He risked - and lost- a chance at the NCAA's to teach his best player a life lesson - knowing that he also risked D'lo leaving. How many division 1 coaches do you think would have done that? Along the way it taught everyone on the team as well. Maybe a few fans got it, too - the kids are what're most important. Without question. Five seniors graduate - six months early. Young men - and a coach - I can truly root for.
Click to expand...

While your message is nice and had good intentions, it is not the reality of the situation. In today's world, it is all about winning, and that's the bottom line. You can say it's all about the kids, and that's what most important, but does anyone really care whatever happened to Lamont Hamilton, Eugene Lawrence, Showtime Hill, Justin Burrell, etc...? Who is honestly going to sit there and be like, "well we completely sucked at basketball, but at least Curtis Johnson got a degree in business management." (and I have no idea what his major was).

The moment you start with that attitude, is the moment your program goes downhill. I think that that was one of Norm's biggest downfalls. He tried way to hard to develop fine young gentlemen, rather than develop fine young basketball players.

A coach's job is to win games....with a little character development on the side.
Click to expand...

This is where we differ, I care and know what all of those young men are currently doing. Lamont Hamilton is in his 8th year playing overseas. He has been in the highest league in Spain for the past three years. Eugene Lawrence is playing in Germany and Justin Burrell is playing in Japan along with Paris Horne. Daryl hill is living in Charlotte, he is not playing anymore but is involved in AAU basketball and player development. He is also having a Charity game at St Johns in February where the proceeds will benefit Diabetes research. Knowing where some of these kids came from and seeing them mature into responsible young family men makes me proud that we all graduated from St Johns.
If I had to choose between helping DLo save his career and maybe his life, or going to an NCAA tourney, I would help him every time.
 
Aside from recruiting, so much of next year will depend on Rysheed and Obekpa.

I cannot blame them for leaving, although IMHO, they are not ready. But if theyhave made up their minds, they better play their behinds off for the rest of the season.

Coach Lavin gets credit for recruiting Jakaar, CO and Rysheed. If the "cupboard is bare" partly because these three left early, I cannot lay blame with Lavin for that. He brought in talent and got it ready for the next level. That is a large part of his job.

Too early in the season to make a call on whether he gets extended or not.

IF we win 12 or 13 in the BE and IF make a little noise in the Tourney and IF there are no major game-losing coaching decisions and IF we get some pleasant recruiting / transfer news and IF there is no silliness along the way in terms of player drama... I say extend the HC for 3 more years.

Or just beat Nova (2x) and Duke!!
 
Perhaps the thread I hated the most over the past year was the Fire Lavin thread. As a stark opponent of firing him, I made a few enemies on here as a result.

This thread is a not so distant second because it's premature and knee jerk
 
Perhaps the thread I hated the most over the past year was the Fire Lavin thread. As a stark opponent of firing him, I made a few enemies on here as a result.

This thread is a not so distant second because it's premature and knee jerk
Click to expand...

Agree
 
I don't think Lavin wants to return after this season. He looks shot. We've beaten his brains in as Keady said last month. I think he takes the guys to the dance, wins a game or three and rides off into the sunset. It's tough to lose so many guys you have a deep relationship with, and in spite of how some view Lavin, he clearly loves these seniors.

I hope we can give threads like this a rest and just enjoy the season. I think we all know what he needs to get done to get an extension--and he's well on his way.
 
IMHO I say they should give Lavin an extension if he wants to be here. We are not going to get any other coach that's as high profile as Lavin is to come here with the way the landscape has changed in college basketball. Lavin has name recognition and recruits know his name and who he is. He hasn't done a bad job here considering where we were as a program when he took over and what has transpired since he got here from his illness to Harkless and Sampson leaving early and Amir leaving to play baseball. Also, if we do get a hot young and up and coming coach here who does well, then he will only be here until one of the power five schools comes calling and then he's gone and we have to start all over again. I think Lavin likes the NYC lifestyle and I think likes the private catholic school atmosphere and the fact that Basketball is the main school sport. It makes him the face of the university if he wins and does well. Apparently (I don't know but from what I've read) his wife likes it here. I think it all works. As another poster mentioned, Lavin not having an extension can't be helping recruiting either. I say give to him.
 
Why do some posters assume Lavin is such a caring person and is passionate about his players off the court? I'm not saying he's not that, but some posters on here talk like he's more ethical and cares more about his players than other coaches do. What makes you say that?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top