@Butler, Sat. Jan. 27, 2:30pm, FS1/570AM
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
For many years I watched every game on television that I couldn’t attend. If I had to miss a game for another commitment I would be very disappointed. Things changed for me after the program collapsed under Jarvis. I tried at times to get back into it when Norm was the coach but that wouldn’t last long. When Lavin was hired and started recruiting top 100 players I was excited and started to watch again. This early success recruiting spoiled me and I was frustrated when it slowed down. I felt that Lavin’s early success was a result of his notoriety as an announcer and that seemed to be wearing off. I wanted a change but was concerned that a good coach would not be interested in our program or would just use it as a stepping stone so I bought into the Mullin excitement. I thought Mullin could recruit good players here at the very least. I didn't expect anything the first year as we had little talent. I was very excited by the Ponds signing and thought it would lead to other local players joining the program but it hasn’t. Last year seemed to be a step in the right direction but closer analysis shows that recent recruiting has been extremely disappointing. Recruiting good players is what Mullin was hired for. Almost all of our players are now transfers. We have some good players signed for next year but they will take time to develop so even in a perfect world we still have a slow process ahead of us and I agree that we have the wrong staff in place. I don’t watch every game anymore. I sold several games to recoup the cost of my season tickets and without a drastic change I will only retain them for one more year under this regime. If things don’t improve substantially next year I don’t know where we go from here. Do any good coaches want to come here and can anyone we hire recruit the players we need to win? I don’t feel great about any scenario right now.
Zach Had good article on Danny Hurley today.
Seems like perfect timing with all the SJU coaching concern
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Seems like perfect timing with all the SJU coaching concern
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indyredmen97
Member
Love reading that there was a St. John’s gathering at St. Elmo’s after the fact. I went to IU for law school, there isn’t an event in any city in the world that we don’t know about, let alone the town you live in. We are...
beast of the east
Active member
Every single school in the country has smaller events for larger donors that are not publicized
indyredmen97
Member
Agreed Beast, but we go out of our way to lack a sense of community.
It will all depend on who returns next year and how good these incoming transfers/recruits are. If Ponds leaves you can literally forget about it.I am 99.9% sure we wont see Lovett again in a st johns uniform. Mullin has the right idea and I think he can get people ready for the NBA but he needs to adjust more to the college game. That is why it could have been helpful to have a former college coach on the staff. But as they say, it is what it is. I dont have any hope that we will even win one more game this year. As for next year, it would be nice if we could make a tournament but even that will be an uphill battle. The other teams in the BE are now so far ahead of us in recruiting that it is almost like high school players versus first graders when we get on the court. And you know who the first graders are. The Butler game was not only embarrassing but almost unfair. But maybe that is what this team needs, a good beating, a total embarrassment before they can get the pride and anger that they need to win a game. Just ONE game
Sadly, any coach on the rise, would not find this an attractive option. Dwindling, aging fan base, sub par facilities, financially strapped university, tough conference to move up in, historically mismanaged Athletic Department v playing at MSG doesn't portend success. Suspect if CM does not work out, best option may be to take a flyer on some gym rat type with solid coaching skills who lacks the recent uptick of a guy like Hurley. Historically the SJU brain trust clings to the past success of the program and tends to be unrealistic about this being a "dream job". It hurts to watch the team, even factoring in the LoVett loss. It also pains me to think of the ineptitude of a "next search".
Obviously entire staff deserves the heat. Yesterday looked like we picked up kids from West Fourth Street & just gave them uniforms & a ball. Feel for the kids and it certainly appeared losing is wearing on them. Disciplining myself to just let season play out, allow Goff to evaluate things and see what his short term expectations are. Firing Mullin at end of season doesn't seem prudent with likely flight of some core guys and recruits. Giving him another year may not work out, but it is moot, since he will return. SJU, since end of Looie era, has for most part been a "between a rock and a hard place" experience. Mullin aside, there is no "quick fix" guy anxiously waiting in the wings for this challenging job. I also suspect President "Bobby" will be less than enthusiastic about paying what this staff makes collectively. That alone will dictate the shrinking pool of proven candidates. Critical next season for Mullin and the future of our program.
It is not time to write the epitaph on the Chris Mullin era yet. However it is shocking to see the abyss that the team has fallen in during the conference portion of this season. It was always clear to me going in, that the season was vulnerable to an injury or two but I never thought that it would fall apart this way.
The theories of whether it is the talent or the coaching that is primarily at fault are debatable. That said it is hard not to look at the coaching and say that something appears to not be right. The fanbase probably is not in the mood to start over again and look at another change in coaching.
When playing at our best we can hang with the number one team in the country at the Garden or go on the road and play top ten to top thirty opponents very competitively. When playing poorly (see yesterday at Butler or Depaul and Providence at home) we can look pretty bad. With Lovett out and Ponds playing on one leg it is understandable that this team is ill equipped to be successful. That said the coaches are the architechts of the program and understand that the results are not acceptable.No one (fans, coaches, players or administrators) can be happy with 0 and 10.
There is hope that an infusion of talent (see next year's six new players) will help turn this around. I hope this is true. However no matter what happens I do reject the idea that St. John's can't turn it around and ultimately be a successful program.
While our game on FS1 was showing the beatdown to Butler (BTW a school who on the surface has less built in advantages to success then St. John's does) Duke was being broadcast on CBS playing the # 2 Virginia Cavaliers. Now you may say a comparison to UVA is ridiculous but regardless of their differences to us you can look at a siginificant period of time, from 1995/96 to 2009/10, and see that UVA was no more successful then St. John's. Three less than succesful coaching regimes Jeff Jones, Pete Gillen and Dave Leitao produced similar results to St. John's during that fifteen year period.
When the hiring of Tony Bennett happened few would have projected UVA into a national power. The idea that they could be a perrenial top program seemed inconceivable. In fact even going into this season they were not considered a top twenty five team (no respect?). Nonetheless they are challenging Villanova for the number one ranking, are undefeated in a highly competitive ACC and are headed to a number one seed in the NCAA tournament. They are 132 and 31 during the last five seasons under Bennett. Watching them play is a testament to more than talent. They are an exceptionally well coached and disciplined team.
UVA found the right man to turn their program around and make them a national presence. There are others out there who can do this and it could happen here with the right person to lead the program. Chris Mullin might still make this happen for St. John's. Right now his tenure has been less than what has been hoped for, but the final chapter has yet to be written. Hopefully he will turn it around. Ultimately if he is not the guy then somewhere out there is a person who could make it happen for us.
The theories of whether it is the talent or the coaching that is primarily at fault are debatable. That said it is hard not to look at the coaching and say that something appears to not be right. The fanbase probably is not in the mood to start over again and look at another change in coaching.
When playing at our best we can hang with the number one team in the country at the Garden or go on the road and play top ten to top thirty opponents very competitively. When playing poorly (see yesterday at Butler or Depaul and Providence at home) we can look pretty bad. With Lovett out and Ponds playing on one leg it is understandable that this team is ill equipped to be successful. That said the coaches are the architechts of the program and understand that the results are not acceptable.No one (fans, coaches, players or administrators) can be happy with 0 and 10.
There is hope that an infusion of talent (see next year's six new players) will help turn this around. I hope this is true. However no matter what happens I do reject the idea that St. John's can't turn it around and ultimately be a successful program.
While our game on FS1 was showing the beatdown to Butler (BTW a school who on the surface has less built in advantages to success then St. John's does) Duke was being broadcast on CBS playing the # 2 Virginia Cavaliers. Now you may say a comparison to UVA is ridiculous but regardless of their differences to us you can look at a siginificant period of time, from 1995/96 to 2009/10, and see that UVA was no more successful then St. John's. Three less than succesful coaching regimes Jeff Jones, Pete Gillen and Dave Leitao produced similar results to St. John's during that fifteen year period.
When the hiring of Tony Bennett happened few would have projected UVA into a national power. The idea that they could be a perrenial top program seemed inconceivable. In fact even going into this season they were not considered a top twenty five team (no respect?). Nonetheless they are challenging Villanova for the number one ranking, are undefeated in a highly competitive ACC and are headed to a number one seed in the NCAA tournament. They are 132 and 31 during the last five seasons under Bennett. Watching them play is a testament to more than talent. They are an exceptionally well coached and disciplined team.
UVA found the right man to turn their program around and make them a national presence. There are others out there who can do this and it could happen here with the right person to lead the program. Chris Mullin might still make this happen for St. John's. Right now his tenure has been less than what has been hoped for, but the final chapter has yet to be written. Hopefully he will turn it around. Ultimately if he is not the guy then somewhere out there is a person who could make it happen for us.
Class of 72
Active member
I'm game, why do top coaches not come here?
Lack of a swimming pool on campus so coaches have to wait to use hotel pools?
Never actually reaching out to top coaches and hiring a $2 million coaching novice to turn around the program?
Never offering a competitive salary until the hiring of Steve Lavin?
Never having an athletic director respected in the college basketball community?
Now having a bean counting president who sounds like he failed English as a Second Language?
Knowing we have sociopaths that will stalk them throughout the city especially if they eat at high end restaurants without them?
Maybe St. John's history of unceremoniously firing coaches?
Maybe having a negative track record in our coaching tree making the St. John's job a career ending possibility?
Maybe we should be concerned when a prospective donor for the university's ONLY flagship sport wonders why they didn't get to meet the Hall of Fame coach leading the program to a promising future while in Indianapolis?
My guess is that Chris Mullin will be doing a lot of hiding in plain sight going forward this season.
sorry, but going into next year and having the same unsuccessful results will not fly. Cut our ties now. This experiment is not working out. Mullin of all people should see that. Step down and lets turn this ship around. BTW, I disagree, there are plenty of great up and coming coaches that would love to come here.
For what it's worth, here's what Owen's father had to say about the game:
Renard buys houses
@eljefe132
10h10 hours ago
Men lie women lie numbers don’t. You go 6-8 1-1 from 3. No reason he not getting 12-15 shots a game. With everyone else shooting so bad. Run more stuff for #11. If I was Tariq I would shoot every time I touch the ball no matter what. He not selfish won’t do it.
Renard buys houses
@eljefe132
10h10 hours ago
Men lie women lie numbers don’t. You go 6-8 1-1 from 3. No reason he not getting 12-15 shots a game. With everyone else shooting so bad. Run more stuff for #11. If I was Tariq I would shoot every time I touch the ball no matter what. He not selfish won’t do it.
RedmanMike
Well-known member
It’s hard to argue with Papa Owens’ logic. Give Owens a few more touches - provided most of them are 15 feet and in. I’d rather see him operate down there than more Clark three pointers early in the shot clock and more bull-in-China shop drives to the hoop by Ahmed.
JackofVirginia
Active member
Tony Bennett is a defensive genius or someone on his staff is. Just beating Duke away yesterday was unbelievable. While watching the game and of course rooting against the Dukies I was comparing our starting team against the likes of Guy, Jerome, Wilkens, Hall and Salt. OK, I know they at least have a few subs coming off the bench. Diakite and Hunter are not bad. Are the Cavaliers that much better? Must be the coaching!
redfan259999888
Active member
Yep, as I said: THE MOST IMPORTANT IN THE LAST 20 YEARS." Atleast to me.
If we are garbage next year. Then the years after next I'll still watch every now and then, when not busy, but not gonna put my heart into the team, just to get crushed every year for my entire life. It just isn't worth it.
Next year ooc to me is meaningless, the conf games is where we always struggle, so I want to see how we do in conf games next year.
beast of the east
Active member
Why? Because if you want a sure thing, and pop for someone who has won a lot in a big time conference, you come here. And the cost of living is higher, the fan base sucks, taxes are higher, the on campus arena stinks, traffic stinks, and did I say the fan base sucks?
So you have guys on here who thought Billy Donovan woukd come here at the same or lower salary than Florida, despite a cost of living thats maybe 55% of new York in a winter climate that people run from.
A cant miss high d1 guy isn't coming here so you have to go to a mid major where the most successful guys win their conference or tourney every year. Those teams mostly dont get at large bid, so coming here become a a crap shoot in terms of consistently attracting high level talent.
But really, who would die to come to a program that hasn't had consistent success in 25 years?
And fwiw, Chris was at an alumni event on li just this Thursday, along with Bobby G, Anton, and others. In season he isn't asked to go to every event, so im.sure he wasn't scheduled to attend. Everyone wants his time i am told.
ManhattAn1
Active member
JJ after dark on WFAN talked a lot of St. John's last night. Absolutely killed Mullin good to hear.
If the school is worried abou $$ they should look into what Dan Mattic has been doing on the schools dime
If the school is worried abou $$ they should look into what Dan Mattic has been doing on the schools dime