@Butler, Sat. Jan. 27, 2:30pm, FS1/570AM

[fun]

Sadly, any coach on the rise, would not find this an attractive option. Dwindling, aging fan base, sub par facilities, financially strapped university, tough conference to move up in, historically mismanaged Athletic Department v playing at MSG doesn't portend success. Suspect if CM does not work out, best option may be to take a flyer on some gym rat type with solid coaching skills who lacks the recent uptick of a guy like Hurley. Historically the SJU brain trust clings to the past success of the program and tends to be unrealistic about this being a "dream job". It hurts to watch the team, even factoring in the LoVett loss. It also pains me to think of the ineptitude of a "next search".

At the risk of quoting myself, Jamiaca is where coaching careers come to die. Every coach who's come here since Mahoney has come here on the come and each of them flamed out spectacularly. Stupid Mike Jarvis was the most successful coach St John's has had since 1990 and he presided over the 23rd (according to Sports Illustrated) most corrupt college basketball program in the history of college basketball programs, which is 22 places lower than Baylor, where people got murdered.

This is not a good job. If Mullin fails - and I give him a mulligan for this year, pre Lovett he was on an NIT trajectory this year which is all that anyone other than the most delusional fan would expect - no one with a brain would take it, unless they pay some mid major dope like Cluess or Will Browne four or five times his present salary to come die on this hill. Will Browne versus Jay Wright and Doug McDermott's father, you make the call. Me, I've already registered FireTimCluess.com with network solutions and am looking forward to the ad revenue.

Obviously entire staff deserves the heat. Yesterday looked like we picked up kids from West Fourth Street & just gave them uniforms & a ball.

The loss at Butler looked worse than it was because of how things have been. If they'd beaten three teams they could have beaten it wouldn't have looked so bad. Lavin's last year - the year he finally managed to make the tournament without Norm's players - he lost to Butler twice, including by 25 on the road. That's not to minimize the disaster this season has been, but to put it in perspective. Considering the roster - a roster on which Amar Alibagoshit gets minutes - they've played 2.5 bad games all year. No, they're not winning games, but they're not embarassing themselves either. If Mullin sucked as much as the perpetually disgruntled believed he'd have lost the team a long time ago. He hasn't. Which is to say, it's not an X and O issue, it's a talent issue.

Feel for the kids and it certainly appeared losing is wearing on them. Disciplining myself to just let season play out, allow Goff to evaluate things and see what his short term expectations are. Firing Mullin at end of season doesn't seem prudent with likely flight of some core guys and recruits. Giving him another year may not work out, but it is moot, since he will return. SJU, since end of Looie era, has for most part been a "between a rock and a hard place" experience. Mullin aside, there is no "quick fix" guy anxiously waiting in the wings for this challenging job. I also suspect President "Bobby" will be less than enthusiastic about paying what this staff makes collectively. That alone will dictate the shrinking pool of proven candidates. Critical next season for Mullin and the future of our program.

Mullin - especially Mullin - doesn't deserved to be fired two years (no rational person would count his first year) into a six year contract and even if he did they can't afford to fire him and even if they could afford to cut ties they couldn't afford to hire anyone who'd make them immediately relevant, eg the whore monger Rick Pitino, who was making seven million ay UL which is like 11 million in NY. Other than hoping that Mullin can turn things around there are no good alternatives.

 

[fun]

Let's just say shady and a catholic university especially would not approve of it.

Let's just say you're slandering the guy and are too chickenshit to say explicitly what you're alleging is happening.

 

[Sjugrad13]

From Shamorie Ponds instagram

“Don’t worry SJU I got y’all Trust me”

I respect this quote a lot, because if there’s any one players who should be mentally and physically done it’s Shamorie. I know all of our players are exhausted but this has to be brutal on him.

 

[beast of the east]

Just curious. How good is this team if mussini Williams, ellison,sima and Wilson round out the roster? How good without Lovett? How good with him?

 

[bamafan]

Just curious. How good is this team if mussini Williams, ellison,sima and Wilson round out the roster? How good without Lovett? How good with him?

Sorry teach I don't like essay questions. In short significantly better in my estimation (as Mikey would say).

 

[beast of the east]

Just curious. How good is this team if mussini Williams, ellison,sima and Wilson round out the roster? How good without Lovett? How good with him?

Sorry teach I don't like essay questions. In short significantly better in my estimation (as Mikey would say).

Do they best Georgetown twice? Providence? Depaul? Creighton at CA? Maybe 5-5 @ this point, maybe 7-3? Maybe better? If you could have those 5 or 6 guys for this season or say have Danny Hurley with this roster what would you take?

 

[Sjugrad13]

Just curious. How good is this team if mussini Williams, ellison,sima and Wilson round out the roster? How good without Lovett? How good with him?

Without Lovett and everybody else I believe we’re 15-6

With Lovett I don’t think we have more than two big East losses. I would make the argument we would’ve beaten Seton Hall ( easily), Creighton and Villanova.

 

[Class of 72]

Fun wrote
"Which is to say, it's not an X and O issue, it's a talent issue."

Xavier and Butler recruit lower ranked players than St. John's and are perennially in the top half of the conference. We must be recruiting the bottom of the barrel 3 and 4 star recruits or they must be evaluating players better or........their history with coaching hires precludes having to worry about x's and o's. Do you remember the last time Butler or Xavier "fired" a coach?

 

[Knight]

15 Days until Yankees pitchers and catchers report.

 

[redfan259999888]

Just curious. How good is this team if mussini Williams, ellison,sima and Wilson round out the roster? How good without Lovett? How good with him?

Sorry teach I don't like essay questions. In short significantly better in my estimation (as Mikey would say).

Do they best Georgetown twice? Providence? Depaul? Creighton at CA? Maybe 5-5 @ this point, maybe 7-3? Maybe better? If you could have those 5 or 6 guys for this season or say have Danny Hurley with this roster what would you take?

Beast, you could say what if this happened, what if that happened? You could say if if if's until the cows come home, but in reality what is their record in year 3 of Mullin. I believe 0-10.
Mullins job as head coach is to recruits better, and make the kids here happy so they don't leave. So Beast, just please stop with the already. ENOUGH OF THE SAME LAME ASS EXCUSES.
Excuses for 17yrs of nothing (not one NCAA win since 2001.), gets old.

Eventually it will just be accepting what we'll be, I'll give it next year, if we are even 7-11 next year, that still isn't good enough. Then I'll accept that we are what we are.
Which is most years stink, and every 4 or 5 years we might surprise.

I'm hoping for success next, but we'll see.

 

[Knight]

Got no complaints about Ponds' effort. I feel he's hurting and overused. No bench is killing him and us.

 

[bamafan]

15 Days until Yankees pitchers and catchers report.

Thank you Mike Lupica.

 

[stjohnschris]

We probably have 3 or 4 wins at this point if Mussini was still on the team. By no means calling him a savior, and yea, he had/has flaws in his game, but he's legitimate scoring threat, high % free throw shooter and decent ball handler, and could have made a big difference especially once Lovett went down. Maybe we give 6 or 8 points on defense, but we gain 12 or 15 points on offense.

 

[we are sju]

Sadly, any coach on the rise, would not find this an attractive option. Dwindling, aging fan base, sub par facilities, financially strapped university, tough conference to move up in, historically mismanaged Athletic Department v playing at MSG doesn't portend success. Suspect if CM does not work out, best option may be to take a flyer on some gym rat type with solid coaching skills who lacks the recent uptick of a guy like Hurley. Historically the SJU brain trust clings to the past success of the program and tends to be unrealistic about this being a "dream job". It hurts to watch the team, even factoring in the LoVett loss. It also pains me to think of the ineptitude of a "next search".

At the risk of quoting myself, Jamiaca is where coaching careers come to die. Every coach who's come here since Mahoney has come here on the come and each of them flamed out spectacularly. Stupid Mike Jarvis was the most successful coach St John's has had since 1990 and he presided over the 23rd (according to Sports Illustrated) most corrupt college basketball program in the history of college basketball programs, which is 22 places lower than Baylor, where people got murdered.

This is not a good job. If Mullin fails - and I give him a mulligan for this year, pre Lovett he was on an NIT trajectory this year which is all that anyone other than the most delusional fan would expect - no one with a brain would take it, unless they pay some mid major dope like Cluess or Will Browne four or five times his present salary to come die on this hill. Will Browne versus Jay Wright and Doug McDermott's father, you make the call. Me, I've already registered FireTimCluess.com with network solutions and am looking forward to the ad revenue.

Obviously entire staff deserves the heat. Yesterday looked like we picked up kids from West Fourth Street & just gave them uniforms & a ball.

The loss at Butler looked worse than it was because of how things have been. If they'd beaten three teams they could have beaten it wouldn't have looked so bad. Lavin's last year - the year he finally managed to make the tournament without Norm's players - he lost to Butler twice, including by 25 on the road. That's not to minimize the disaster this season has been, but to put it in perspective. Considering the roster - a roster on which Amar Alibagoshit gets minutes - they've played 2.5 bad games all year. No, they're not winning games, but they're not embarassing themselves either. If Mullin sucked as much as the perpetually disgruntled believed he'd have lost the team a long time ago. He hasn't. Which is to say, it's not an X and O issue, it's a talent issue.

Feel for the kids and it certainly appeared losing is wearing on them. Disciplining myself to just let season play out, allow Goff to evaluate things and see what his short term expectations are. Firing Mullin at end of season doesn't seem prudent with likely flight of some core guys and recruits. Giving him another year may not work out, but it is moot, since he will return. SJU, since end of Looie era, has for most part been a "between a rock and a hard place" experience. Mullin aside, there is no "quick fix" guy anxiously waiting in the wings for this challenging job. I also suspect President "Bobby" will be less than enthusiastic about paying what this staff makes collectively. That alone will dictate the shrinking pool of proven candidates. Critical next season for Mullin and the future of our program.

Mullin - especially Mullin - doesn't deserved to be fired two years (no rational person would count his first year) into a six year contract and even if he did they can't afford to fire him and even if they could afford to cut ties they couldn't afford to hire anyone who'd make them immediately relevant, eg the whore monger Rick Pitino, who was making seven million ay UL which is like 11 million in NY. Other than hoping that Mullin can turn things around there are no good alternatives.

I figured Cluess as the nice safe relatively cheap bet. I didn't realize he is almost 60 though. Think Brown might be the guy unless he thinks he can do better.

 

[MJDinkins]

We probably have 3 or 4 wins at this point if Mussini was still on the team. By no means calling him a savior, and yea, he had/has flaws in his game, but he's legitimate scoring threat, high % free throw shooter and decent ball handler, and could have made a big difference especially once Lovett went down. Maybe we give 6 or 8 points on defense, but we gain 12 or 15 points on offense.

If the staff knew how to teach zone defenses, then you could hide a player like Mussini in it where he wouldn't be a defensive liability. Besides, he played better defense than LoVett and Ponds a season ago.

 

[L J S A]

LJSA usually enjoy your posts, but if keeping Owens happy means he gets to shoot 15 times a game, well then he can go be happy in whatever Fantasy Land he can think of that lets people with his skill set shoot 15 times a game. I like Owens and I think he is a real nice role player but his dad should maybe consider giving the kid a hot dog and maybe a weight set. If he gained some weight / strength and just worried about rebounding and blocking shots I could see him one day showing up on an NBA roster.

I was thinking more in terms of general happiness, not specific shots. I'm not sure I'd go as high as 15. But 10 to 12 for a guy who can hit his free throws when he gets battered in paint might be enough to keep dad happy. He's generally happy with program, so if he's pissed about his son's usage, we need to keep an open mind. He should probably get 15 shots in a game where Ponds is being shut down like a young Revis is guarding him, though. The problem is that if Mullin learned from Nellie, he may not have any clue whatsoever what to do with a big man.

 

[we are sju]

We probably have 3 or 4 wins at this point if Mussini was still on the team. By no means calling him a savior, and yea, he had/has flaws in his game, but he's legitimate scoring threat, high % free throw shooter and decent ball handler, and could have made a big difference especially once Lovett went down. Maybe we give 6 or 8 points on defense, but we gain 12 or 15 points on offense.

If the staff knew how to teach zone defenses, then you could hide a player like Mussini in it where he wouldn't be a defensive liability. Besides, he played better defense than LoVett and Ponds a season ago.

See now w/o trying you just hit on the biggest issue with Mullin to date. He and Slice and Matt were supposed to bring in the type of players where one dimensional guys like Mussini would no longer be necessary. And in fairness to Mullin we had that locked down at guard with Ponds, Simon and Lovett. Which brings us back to Lovett. Because if Lovett situation never happens I think we would be on a course that would have at least mollified most on here.

 

[redfan259999888]

We probably have 3 or 4 wins at this point if Mussini was still on the team. By no means calling him a savior, and yea, he had/has flaws in his game, but he's legitimate scoring threat, high % free throw shooter and decent ball handler, and could have made a big difference especially once Lovett went down. Maybe we give 6 or 8 points on defense, but we gain 12 or 15 points on offense.

If the staff knew how to teach zone defenses, then you could hide a player like Mussini in it where he wouldn't be a defensive liability. Besides, he played better defense than LoVett and Ponds a season ago.

See now w/o trying you just hit on the biggest issue with Mullin to date. He and Slice and Matt were supposed to bring in the type of players where one dimensional guys like Mussini would no longer be necessary. And in fairness to Mullin we had that locked down at guard with Ponds, Simon and Lovett. Which brings us back to Lovett. Because if Lovett situation never happens I think we would be on a course that would have at least mollified most on here.

Yeah if if if, but it did happens and the rest is history. It should never come down to one persons situation.
One person could be the difference between a NIT appearance and possibly going 0-18. That's a huge differential.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

I agree Chicago days . It is unbelievable that so many posters here are actually showing such deep rooted hate for Chris Mullin , the greatest player in the history of the school and a John Wooden Award winner plus Dream Teamer, 1984 and 1992 and HOF player . Perhaps it is reflective of our Society that so many people just love to complain about everything ., not just Basketball . Many of the most negative posters are , no pun intended, Johnny come latelies . And , with all due respect to the Eagles .. Another segment of the most outrageous Negative comments come from some who touted the hiring of Mullin as the best news in 20years or since FH single handedly destroyed our Program . Amazing how many here have so violently turned in a Season that has disappointed us all but, that has valid reasons for its rapid decline . But, so many here , don’t want to evaluate the losses in a proper context . It doesn’t take a Rocket scientist to connect the dots as to the fall off the cliff that has happened . Lovett , a proven 14 ppg Scorer and pre season BE second teamer , stopped playing in early December . Do we really know why he quit , except for a Injury that the team’s Medical staff proclaimed as day to day and presumably , would heal in a reasonable time ? Most Astute basketball analysts , including 1 BE Coach , have been quoted as saying St John’s built this Years team on a 3 Guard Offense . Ponds, Lovett and Simon. Ponds and Lovett being counted on for 40 or more points a game as a duo . Simon capable of , perhaps 10 more a game as a combo guard . Over the summer, in pre season practice and in non conference games, where we were 10-2 and competitive, these 3 were the core of the team strategy and it worked ! Lovett’s injury threw the whole 3 Guard System out the window . Owens became a starter , not the catalyst off the bench , a role he was well suited for . Simon , not the offensive player that Lovett was , was forced out of his role into becoming a scoring threat he is not naturally suited for . He is a slasher , get to the Rim , lock down defender but, a less than average shooter , below average free throw shooter and not meant to be the focus of our offense . All that changed with Lovett out . Ponds too, has been taken out of his role as a tandem with Lovett, whereby he was now thrust into being our main go to offensive player . A Coaching move that Mullin had no choice into assigning him. But, in doing so , it allowed BE opponents to assign their best defender to Ponds . Players like Martin , Baldwin, Bridges, etc who are a lot bigger , stronger and who often got double team help in trying to shut down Shamorie . Much of Ponds game is drive to the hoop , draw fouls , stop for the pull up jumper and shoot the long range 3 . Without Lovett to defend , Ponds has had to try and be 2 players and it has taken its toll on him , physically and mentally too . To me , he looks like he is playing hurt and has been for some time . It has adversely affected his results and , as a result the team. How come the Arm
Chair Coaches don’t see this ? It is so easily seen . Instead , it is all Mullin ‘s fault ! Mullin did this but, didn’t do that ! How come we can’t beat these deeper and often better balanced BE teams with a depleted roster . It must be that Mullin can’t come up with the additional 14 points a game we lost when Lovett went down . How awful Mullin is for not Coaching Clark into being a better rebounder , go to the Rim inside player and a better defender of opponents inside players ? I guess the dissenters think Mullin should be able to make Clark into the type player that Izzo couldn’t do ? ??. Ahmed , is the same type but, less effective player than he was last year . Owens ? Nice offensive game , good shooter from15 feet , blocks shots well but, fouls a lot and now thinks he should be the focal point of the offense from 3 point range ? Plus , he can’t defend most other BE Post players who are stronger and tougher . So, those of you who have quit on Mullin, on this team and the school , continue your non stop BS about parts of the game you don’t understand and wail like the cry babies you have turned into .. oh, and for those intent on allocating Mullin’s first year 1-17 BE Record as being his responsibility , consider this .. Chis wasn’t named Coach until near April, well after the recruiting period . He was lucky to be able to even field a roster after what Lavin left him , which was nothing ! So , to be fair, you can’t throw that Years Record on Chris ... Unless you are among the Prime Time whiners . Lastly , would Villanova be 20-1 without Brunson ? How about Xavier without Machura ? Or , Providence without Bullock? Marquette without Howard ? Butler without Martin ? Seton hall without Carrington ? Think about it !

 

[paultzman]

I agree Chicago days . It is unbelievable that so many posters here are actually showing such deep rooted hate for Chris Mullin , the greatest player in the history of the school and a John Wooden Award winner plus Dream Teamer, 1984 and 1992 and HOF player . Perhaps it is reflective of our Society that so many people just love to complain about everything ., not just Basketball . Many of the most negative posters are , no pun intended, Johnny come latelies . And , with all due respect to the Eagles .. Another segment of the most outrageous Negative comments come from some who touted the hiring of Mullin as the best news in 20years or since FH single handedly destroyed our Program . Amazing how many here have so violently turned in a Season that has disappointed us all but, that has valid reasons for its rapid decline . But, so many here , don’t want to evaluate the losses in a proper context . It doesn’t take a Rocket scientist to connect the dots as to the fall off the cliff that has happened . Lovett , a proven 14 ppg Scorer and pre season BE second teamer , stopped playing in early December . Do we really know why he quit , except for a Injury that the team’s Medical staff proclaimed as day to day and presumably , would heal in a reasonable time ? Most Astute basketball analysts , including 1 BE Coach , have been quoted as saying St John’s built this Years team on a 3 Guard Offense . Ponds, Lovett and Simon. Ponds and Lovett being counted on for 40 or more points a game as a duo . Simon capable of , perhaps 10 more a game as a combo guard . Over the summer, in pre season practice and in non conference games, where we were 10-2 and competitive, these 3 were the core of the team strategy and it worked ! Lovett’s injury threw the whole 3 Guard System out the window . Owens became a starter , not the catalyst off the bench , a role he was well suited for . Simon , not the offensive player that Lovett was , was forced out of his role into becoming a scoring threat he is not naturally suited for . He is a slasher , get to the Rim , lock down defender but, a less than average shooter , below average free throw shooter and not meant to be the focus of our offense . All that changed with Lovett out . Ponds too, has been taken out of his role as a tandem with Lovett, whereby he was now thrust into being our main go to offensive player . A Coaching move that Mullin had no choice into assigning him. But, in doing so , it allowed BE opponents to assign their best defender to Ponds . Players like Martin , Baldwin, Bridges, etc who are a lot bigger , stronger and who often got double team help in trying to shut down Shamorie . Much of Ponds game is drive to the hoop , draw fouls , stop for the pull up jumper and shoot the long range 3 . Without Lovett to defend , Ponds has had to try and be 2 players and it has taken its toll on him , physically and mentally too . To me , he looks like he is playing hurt and has been for some time . It has adversely affected his results and , as a result the team. How come the Arm
Chair Coaches don’t see this ? It is so easily seen . Instead , it is all Mullin ‘s fault ! Mullin did this but, didn’t do that ! How come we can’t beat these deeper and often better balanced BE teams with a depleted roster . It must be that Mullin can’t come up with the additional 14 points a game we lost when Lovett went down . How awful Mullin is for not Coaching Clark into being a better rebounder , go to the Rim inside player and a better defender of opponents inside players ? I guess the dissenters think Mullin should be able to make Clark into the type player that Izzo couldn’t do ? ??. Ahmed , is the same type but, less effective player than he was last year . Owens ? Nice offensive game , good shooter from15 feet , blocks shots well but, fouls a lot and now thinks he should be the focal point of the offense from 3 point range ? Plus , he can’t defend most other BE Post players who are stronger and tougher . So, those of you who have quit on Mullin, on this team and the school , continue your non stop BS about parts of the game you don’t understand and wail like the cry babies you have turned into .. oh, and for those intent on allocating Mullin’s first year 1-17 BE Record as being his responsibility , consider this .. Chis wasn’t named Coach until near April, well after the recruiting period . He was lucky to be able to even field a roster after what Lavin left him , which was nothing ! So , to be fair, you can’t throw that Years Record on Chris ... Unless you are among the Prime Time whiners . Lastly , would Villanova be 20-1 without Brunson ? How about Xavier without Machura ? Or , Providence without Bullock? Marquette without Howard ? Butler without Martin ? Seton hall without Carrington ? Think about it !

Oh my!


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