@Butler, Sat. Jan. 27, 2:30pm, FS1/570AM

I say by February 2019 we will have the true pulse of the program
sans excuses and explanations
February 2019
not before
all the best


SS&G, very fair take on the state of the program and realistic expectations. As others have touched on, the two things that killed this season are the Lovett injury and the staff's failure to pick up a solid big man grad transfer such as Kanter (Xavier) or Maric (DePaul). I believe team could have survived one of these, but not both. Still hoping we can right the ship enough to win a few games in conference this year. Next year there must be very significant improvement.
 
I agree Chicago days . It is unbelievable that so many posters here are actually showing such deep rooted hate for Chris Mullin , the greatest player in the history of the school and a John Wooden Award winner plus Dream Teamer, 1984 and 1992 and HOF player . Perhaps it is reflective of our Society that so many people just love to complain about everything ., not just Basketball . Many of the most negative posters are , no pun intended, Johnny come latelies . And , with all due respect to the Eagles .. Another segment of the most outrageous Negative comments come from some who touted the hiring of Mullin as the best news in 20years or since FH single handedly destroyed our Program . Amazing how many here have so violently turned in a Season that has disappointed us all but, that has valid reasons for its rapid decline . But, so many here , don’t want to evaluate the losses in a proper context . It doesn’t take a Rocket scientist to connect the dots as to the fall off the cliff that has happened . Lovett , a proven 14 ppg Scorer and pre season BE second teamer , stopped playing in early December . Do we really know why he quit , except for a Injury that the team’s Medical staff proclaimed as day to day and presumably , would heal in a reasonable time ? Most Astute basketball analysts , including 1 BE Coach , have been quoted as saying St John’s built this Years team on a 3 Guard Offense . Ponds, Lovett and Simon. Ponds and Lovett being counted on for 40 or more points a game as a duo . Simon capable of , perhaps 10 more a game as a combo guard . Over the summer, in pre season practice and in non conference games, where we were 10-2 and competitive, these 3 were the core of the team strategy and it worked ! Lovett’s injury threw the whole 3 Guard System out the window . Owens became a starter , not the catalyst off the bench , a role he was well suited for . Simon , not the offensive player that Lovett was , was forced out of his role into becoming a scoring threat he is not naturally suited for . He is a slasher , get to the Rim , lock down defender but, a less than average shooter , below average free throw shooter and not meant to be the focus of our offense . All that changed with Lovett out . Ponds too, has been taken out of his role as a tandem with Lovett, whereby he was now thrust into being our main go to offensive player . A Coaching move that Mullin had no choice into assigning him. But, in doing so , it allowed BE opponents to assign their best defender to Ponds . Players like Martin , Baldwin, Bridges, etc who are a lot bigger , stronger and who often got double team help in trying to shut down Shamorie . Much of Ponds game is drive to the hoop , draw fouls , stop for the pull up jumper and shoot the long range 3 . Without Lovett to defend , Ponds has had to try and be 2 players and it has taken its toll on him , physically and mentally too . To me , he looks like he is playing hurt and has been for some time . It has adversely affected his results and , as a result the team. How come the Arm
Chair Coaches don’t see this ? It is so easily seen . Instead , it is all Mullin ‘s fault ! Mullin did this but, didn’t do that ! How come we can’t beat these deeper and often better balanced BE teams with a depleted roster . It must be that Mullin can’t come up with the additional 14 points a game we lost when Lovett went down . How awful Mullin is for not Coaching Clark into being a better rebounder , go to the Rim inside player and a better defender of opponents inside players ? I guess the dissenters think Mullin should be able to make Clark into the type player that Izzo couldn’t do ? ??. Ahmed , is the same type but, less effective player than he was last year . Owens ? Nice offensive game , good shooter from15 feet , blocks shots well but, fouls a lot and now thinks he should be the focal point of the offense from 3 point range ? Plus , he can’t defend most other BE Post players who are stronger and tougher . So, those of you who have quit on Mullin, on this team and the school , continue your non stop BS about parts of the game you don’t understand and wail like the cry babies you have turned into .. oh, and for those intent on allocating Mullin’s first year 1-17 BE Record as being his responsibility , consider this .. Chis wasn’t named Coach until near April, well after the recruiting period . He was lucky to be able to even field a roster after what Lavin left him , which was nothing ! So , to be fair, you can’t throw that Years Record on Chris ... Unless you are among the Prime Time whiners . Lastly , would Villanova be 20-1 without Brunson ? How about Xavier without Machura ? Or , Providence without Bullock? Marquette without Howard ? Butler without Martin ? Seton hall without Carrington ? Think about it !

Oh my! :)


[attachment]image.jpeg[/attachment]

His paragraph usage (or, lack of) goes hand-to-hand with what he views as logic and facts.... BS!

Up next: Comma, boy versus wall of text guy in a no hold barred steel cage grammar match.
 
Of all the major conference teams, we are the only team besides Pittsburgh without a conference win. Is that all on the talent?

The common denominator seems to be Malik Ellison.
 
I agree Chicago days . It is unbelievable that so many posters here are actually showing such deep rooted hate for Chris Mullin , the greatest player in the history of the school and a John Wooden Award winner plus Dream Teamer, 1984 and 1992 and HOF player . Perhaps it is reflective of our Society that so many people just love to complain about everything ., not just Basketball . Many of the most negative posters are , no pun intended, Johnny come latelies . And , with all due respect to the Eagles .. Another segment of the most outrageous Negative comments come from some who touted the hiring of Mullin as the best news in 20years or since FH single handedly destroyed our Program . Amazing how many here have so violently turned in a Season that has disappointed us all but, that has valid reasons for its rapid decline . But, so many here , don’t want to evaluate the losses in a proper context . It doesn’t take a Rocket scientist to connect the dots as to the fall off the cliff that has happened . Lovett , a proven 14 ppg Scorer and pre season BE second teamer , stopped playing in early December . Do we really know why he quit , except for a Injury that the team’s Medical staff proclaimed as day to day and presumably , would heal in a reasonable time ? Most Astute basketball analysts , including 1 BE Coach , have been quoted as saying St John’s built this Years team on a 3 Guard Offense . Ponds, Lovett and Simon. Ponds and Lovett being counted on for 40 or more points a game as a duo . Simon capable of , perhaps 10 more a game as a combo guard . Over the summer, in pre season practice and in non conference games, where we were 10-2 and competitive, these 3 were the core of the team strategy and it worked ! Lovett’s injury threw the whole 3 Guard System out the window . Owens became a starter , not the catalyst off the bench , a role he was well suited for . Simon , not the offensive player that Lovett was , was forced out of his role into becoming a scoring threat he is not naturally suited for . He is a slasher , get to the Rim , lock down defender but, a less than average shooter , below average free throw shooter and not meant to be the focus of our offense . All that changed with Lovett out . Ponds too, has been taken out of his role as a tandem with Lovett, whereby he was now thrust into being our main go to offensive player . A Coaching move that Mullin had no choice into assigning him. But, in doing so , it allowed BE opponents to assign their best defender to Ponds . Players like Martin , Baldwin, Bridges, etc who are a lot bigger , stronger and who often got double team help in trying to shut down Shamorie . Much of Ponds game is drive to the hoop , draw fouls , stop for the pull up jumper and shoot the long range 3 . Without Lovett to defend , Ponds has had to try and be 2 players and it has taken its toll on him , physically and mentally too . To me , he looks like he is playing hurt and has been for some time . It has adversely affected his results and , as a result the team. How come the Arm
Chair Coaches don’t see this ? It is so easily seen . Instead , it is all Mullin ‘s fault ! Mullin did this but, didn’t do that ! How come we can’t beat these deeper and often better balanced BE teams with a depleted roster . It must be that Mullin can’t come up with the additional 14 points a game we lost when Lovett went down . How awful Mullin is for not Coaching Clark into being a better rebounder , go to the Rim inside player and a better defender of opponents inside players ? I guess the dissenters think Mullin should be able to make Clark into the type player that Izzo couldn’t do ? ??. Ahmed , is the same type but, less effective player than he was last year . Owens ? Nice offensive game , good shooter from15 feet , blocks shots well but, fouls a lot and now thinks he should be the focal point of the offense from 3 point range ? Plus , he can’t defend most other BE Post players who are stronger and tougher . So, those of you who have quit on Mullin, on this team and the school , continue your non stop BS about parts of the game you don’t understand and wail like the cry babies you have turned into .. oh, and for those intent on allocating Mullin’s first year 1-17 BE Record as being his responsibility , consider this .. Chis wasn’t named Coach until near April, well after the recruiting period . He was lucky to be able to even field a roster after what Lavin left him , which was nothing ! So , to be fair, you can’t throw that Years Record on Chris ... Unless you are among the Prime Time whiners . Lastly , would Villanova be 20-1 without Brunson ? How about Xavier without Machura ? Or , Providence without Bullock? Marquette without Howard ? Butler without Martin ? Seton hall without Carrington ? Think about it !

Oh my! :)


[attachment]image.jpeg[/attachment]

His paragraph usage (or, lack of) goes hand-to-hand with what he views as logic and facts.... BS!

Up next: Comma, boy versus wall of text guy in a no hold barred steel cage grammar match.

With the hack who is familiar of not grading papers being the referee of the grammar match. But, his status of being a ref was voided because he wasn't up to snuff to referee such a "match."

Match cancelled.
 
Whether you believe in Mullin or not, what should not be in dispute is that the staff laid an egg this season. What happened to the team was not as much bad luck as it was bad planning. The loss of Lovett, while a nice player, should not have sent the team from a NIT/borderline NCAA team to a possible ofer the conference schedule. Hard to say what the staff was thinking, other than to hope no one got hurt. Not the way to run a program.

How do you plan on:
1) Sid Wilson leaving after 1 day on campus
2) Zach Brown getting arrested
3) Sima leaving abruptly
4) Williams getting meaningful minutes for first time in 3 years, then transferring
5) Mussina departing because Simon coming in and he'd be 4th guard
6) Ellison departing because of Clark and Simon, and at best 7th-9th man depending who stays
7) Lovett getting injured?

That's a lot for any program to sustain in 12 months that is trying to build a roster with depth. All you can do is reset, keep recruiting, and not look back.

For the record, Mullin, unlike Lavin and Roberts, does not make excuses. HE tells the kids that injuries are part of the game, not misfortine, and they have to pick up the slack.

Either you choose to believe that we, of all the 350 or so division 1 schools, are the most unlucky, or you don't. Sima left over a year ago. Mussini was likely going anyway. Zach Brown getting in trouble, with his past, a surprise? Really? The entire board skewered Ellison game after game, and suddenly there are posters that decry the staff's inability to keep him on board? Who knows what Wilson would have contributed. I like Mullin. I think he needs more time. But the staff could have done a better job having a full, and more balanced roster.

Under Mullin, did we start with near zero?
Could a team trying to build depth and talent sustain 7 player losses (including Freudenberg)?

1. Yes
2. If a team lost 7 players to the bubonic plague after the season started, then no. Absent that, staff has to figure out the lay of the land. Only a select few here have some access to the staff. Yet plenty of posters were anticipating that some or all of the "departing 7" were on their way out a long time ago. Mullin doesn't need anyone to defend him. Absent some unforeseen tragedy, he is responsible for the product on the floor. Sure, bad things happened, but how many 0 for 18s, which is not a stretch, has this conference ever seen? Staff has to own it.

Marshall University made a quicker comeback from a plane crash!;)
Penn State made a quicker comeback from every athlete transferring out.
At St. John's we hire an apprentice carpenter to build Rome in a day. That carpenter fires his assistant carpenter but keeps paying him. Gives the junior carpenter a raise and now the junior carpenter is looking for a job in Lilliput where short people don't get harassed by St. John's sociopaths.
We are...........

I'll preface my post by saying that I am 5'11 and generally have a good sense of humor. '72, although I don't agree with all your posts, you seem to be an intelligent guy. I'm not sure why you have to constantly make fun of Matt's height. It's mean-spirited, not funny, and ads nothing to the substance of the discussion. I dislike posters who are "holier than thou" types, but it would be great if we could all avoid resorting to those types of attacks/jokes.

BooBoo, you obviously have no clue as to what I was referring to regarding Matt! Maybe that sociopath now stalking him on Twitter with an emphasis on his height is not on your radar. As a short person myself I don't need tall people like you to lecture me on vertical matters. I always have a good sense of humor, not generally, so your attempt at political correctness falls flat when you had no clue as to what I was referring to.
 
Of all the major conference teams, we are the only team besides Pittsburgh without a conference win. Is that all on the talent?


Fun Wrote: The common denominator seems to be Malik Ellison.


Yes I totally forgot that Ellison wound up at Pittsburgh. Of course he can't play yet due to transfer rules and can hardly be blamed for their winless conference record. (Unless you are a strong believer in the jinx theory) :)
 
Imagine how it will feel when we become a top 10 team or better, recruiting great players yr after yr .What a thrill it will be for long time fans that have waited

When??? I got bad memory, but was Norms seniors ever in the top10 under Dunlap (I know Lav was the coach, but Dunlap was the X's and O's genius.), I know those seniors were damn good that year.

Will Mullin lead us to a top10 better is still up in the air. I'd say next year will tell us alot, but don't want to start sounding like a broken record
 
Of all the major conference teams, we are the only team besides Pittsburgh without a conference win. Is that all on the talent?


Fun Wrote: The common denominator seems to be Malik Ellison.


Yes I totally forgot that Ellison wound up at Pittsburgh. Of course he can't play yet due to transfer rules and can hardly be blamed for their winless conference record. (Unless you are a strong believer in the jinx theory) :)

I actually used to refer to Ellison as Jonah because of how badly things would typically go when he entered the game. I came to believe though that he just wasn't very good. It shows how bad things are that he'd be an important piece if he were still here.
 
Whether you believe in Mullin or not, what should not be in dispute is that the staff laid an egg this season. What happened to the team was not as much bad luck as it was bad planning. The loss of Lovett, while a nice player, should not have sent the team from a NIT/borderline NCAA team to a possible ofer the conference schedule. Hard to say what the staff was thinking, other than to hope no one got hurt. Not the way to run a program.

How do you plan on:
1) Sid Wilson leaving after 1 day on campus
2) Zach Brown getting arrested
3) Sima leaving abruptly
4) Williams getting meaningful minutes for first time in 3 years, then transferring
5) Mussina departing because Simon coming in and he'd be 4th guard
6) Ellison departing because of Clark and Simon, and at best 7th-9th man depending who stays
7) Lovett getting injured?

That's a lot for any program to sustain in 12 months that is trying to build a roster with depth. All you can do is reset, keep recruiting, and not look back.

For the record, Mullin, unlike Lavin and Roberts, does not make excuses. HE tells the kids that injuries are part of the game, not misfortine, and they have to pick up the slack.

Either you choose to believe that we, of all the 350 or so division 1 schools, are the most unlucky, or you don't. Sima left over a year ago. Mussini was likely going anyway. Zach Brown getting in trouble, with his past, a surprise? Really? The entire board skewered Ellison game after game, and suddenly there are posters that decry the staff's inability to keep him on board? Who knows what Wilson would have contributed. I like Mullin. I think he needs more time. But the staff could have done a better job having a full, and more balanced roster.

Under Mullin, did we start with near zero?
Could a team trying to build depth and talent sustain 7 player losses (including Freudenberg)?

1. Yes
2. If a team lost 7 players to the bubonic plague after the season started, then no. Absent that, staff has to figure out the lay of the land. Only a select few here have some access to the staff. Yet plenty of posters were anticipating that some or all of the "departing 7" were on their way out a long time ago. Mullin doesn't need anyone to defend him. Absent some unforeseen tragedy, he is responsible for the product on the floor. Sure, bad things happened, but how many 0 for 18s, which is not a stretch, has this conference ever seen? Staff has to own it.

Marshall University made a quicker comeback from a plane crash!;)
Penn State made a quicker comeback from every athlete transferring out.
At St. John's we hire an apprentice carpenter to build Rome in a day. That carpenter fires his assistant carpenter but keeps paying him. Gives the junior carpenter a raise and now the junior carpenter is looking for a job in Lilliput where short people don't get harassed by St. John's sociopaths.
We are...........

I'll preface my post by saying that I am 5'11 and generally have a good sense of humor. '72, although I don't agree with all your posts, you seem to be an intelligent guy. I'm not sure why you have to constantly make fun of Matt's height. It's mean-spirited, not funny, and ads nothing to the substance of the discussion. I dislike posters who are "holier than thou" types, but it would be great if we could all avoid resorting to those types of attacks/jokes.

BooBoo, you obviously have no clue as to what I was referring to regarding Matt! Maybe that sociopath now stalking him on Twitter with an emphasis on his height is not on your radar. As a short person myself I don't need tall people like you to lecture me on vertical matters. I always have a good sense of humor, not generally, so your attempt at political correctness falls flat when you had no clue as to what I was referring to.

As a general rule I don't follow sociopath tweeters so you're correct that I didn't catch your inside joke. I assume you were referring to the notorious "The Maven" I've heard so much about. What's his handle on Twitter? I'd like to read what all the fuss is about.

 
Imagine how it will feel when we become a top 10 team or better, recruiting great players yr after yr .What a thrill it will be for long time fans that have waited

When??? I got bad memory, but was Norms seniors ever in the top10 under Dunlap (I know Lav was the coach, but Dunlap was the X's and O's genius.), I know those seniors were damn good that year.

Will Mullin lead us to a top10 better is still up in the air. I'd say next year will tell us alot, but don't want to start sounding like a broken record

Norm’s seniors were nationally ranked under Lavin. That was a big accomplishment considering how much those players disliked Mike Dunlap. Dunlap was a good practice/prep coach but an overrated x&o guy. Ironically, the only season Lavin did not coach, his freshmen, under Dunlap, had a losing record at 11–17 and 6–12 in Big East. St. John's went to post season the next 3 years in a row.
Mike Dunlap is now the head coach at Loyola Marymount in the strong WAC but has never had a winning season.

 
72 wrote
Norm’s seniors were nationally ranked under Lavin. That was a big accomplishment considering how much those players disliked Mike Dunlap. Dunlap was a good practice/prep coach but an overrated x&o guy. Ironically, the only season Lavin did not coach, his freshmen, under Dunlap, had a losing record at 11–17 and 6–12 in Big East. St. John's went to post season the next 3 years in a row.
Mike Dunlap is now the head coach at Loyola Marymount in the strong WAC but has never had a winning season.



Hey 72 half the posters here thought it was Dunlap's coaching that brought the wins. Obviously they were mistaken. Again.
 
72 wrote
Norm’s seniors were nationally ranked under Lavin. That was a big accomplishment considering how much those players disliked Mike Dunlap. Dunlap was a good practice/prep coach but an overrated x&o guy. Ironically, the only season Lavin did not coach, his freshmen, under Dunlap, had a losing record at 11–17 and 6–12 in Big East. St. John's went to post season the next 3 years in a row.
Mike Dunlap is now the head coach at Loyola Marymount in the strong WAC but has never had a winning season.



Hey 72 half the posters here thought it was Dunlap's coaching that brought the wins. Obviously they were mistaken. Again.

The late CRgreen debunked a lot of that foolishness. The guy was a walking encyclopedia when it came to anything UCLA. CRgreen stated on several occasions how Lavin was very instrumental in implementing defensive game plans for UCLA.

Lavin wasn't a great coach, but he surely wasn't some awful coach as a few on these boards make him out to be. He was about "okay" or average (he was a good motivator, too).

You have to remember disingenuity, contradiction, and hypocrisy is "all good" on here.
 
So Norm's seniors would have gotten those great wins with Lavin and no Dunlap, huh?
Yeahhhh, ok!!!

Oh and the year after Dunlap got 6 B.E. wins with all those freshmen, without Dunlap they get maybe 2, or 3.

 
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