If it's the second half of the equation, then the question becomes did he knowingly participate in the cover-up or falsifing of his transcript. If that's the case we should part company. If he's innocent of any complicity then he should be allowed to complete his AA and play.
Westchester Community College issues-
- Thread starter bobo
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If it's the second half of the equation, then the question becomes did he knowingly participate in the cover-up or falsifing of his transcript. If that's the case we should part company. If he's innocent of any complicity then he should be allowed to complete his AA and play.
The question is what transcripts are they reviewing? Assuming the NCAA and all the teams were supplied with official transcripts from the proper office of WCC in the first place - and you would hope that they were - it's not a matter of reviewing the transcripts that's the problem. Those have already been deemed acceptable by all parties. I don't think the teams, STJ included, will have a role in confirming that the transcripts are valid as that will take going back to each instructor to confirm the grades on the transcript were the ones supplied by the professor. That will have to be done by the NCAA with the cooperation of the WCC administration or vice versa, no? In reality all the schools can do is wait and see what the results of this are.
Well, on the bright side at least it happened quick..
Those who are saying that SJU can't possibly be blamed for this aren't looking at the full situation.
We don't know to what degree Thomas's transcript was tampered with. But in the case of Jamell Walker, one of the kids at Florida A&M, they forged a whole transcript. He took 1 class the whole time he was at WCC, and they said he graduated with an associates degree!
If it's that type of situation with Keith, then you're damn right its the staff's fault. Not the compliance office, but the coaches. You cannot possibly recruit a player for 6+ months, speak to the people around him, talk to his coaches and family, and not know that the guy isn't taking any classes.
I would buy it if the assistant coach changed an F in World Civ to a B, to pass the kid through the clearinghouse. There's no way SJU could know that.
But if he's like Walker, and wasn't taking classes the whole time he was in community college, then the SJU coaches needed to see that, regardless of what they were being told.
We don't know to what degree Thomas's transcript was tampered with. But in the case of Jamell Walker, one of the kids at Florida A&M, they forged a whole transcript. He took 1 class the whole time he was at WCC, and they said he graduated with an associates degree!
If it's that type of situation with Keith, then you're damn right its the staff's fault. Not the compliance office, but the coaches. You cannot possibly recruit a player for 6+ months, speak to the people around him, talk to his coaches and family, and not know that the guy isn't taking any classes.
I would buy it if the assistant coach changed an F in World Civ to a B, to pass the kid through the clearinghouse. There's no way SJU could know that.
But if he's like Walker, and wasn't taking classes the whole time he was in community college, then the SJU coaches needed to see that, regardless of what they were being told.
ManhattAn1
Active member
Can confirm just received email from new SID Dombrowski.
Not good. Should have been in on more big guys.
Not good. Should have been in on more big guys.
And how are the coaches supposed to know this? When they sit down with coaches or administrators at WCC do you think Lavin asks about his transcript and how classes have been going for Thomas and they reply, "Well we've actually been forging all of this and he has never stepped foot in a classroom." Are we supposed to hire PI's for every recruitment to make sure we aren't dealing with crooks like these at every turn?
Exactly. Lavin probably asked about the eligibility of Thomas and they told him "well he's cleared by the NCAA so you are good to go". What's Lavin supposed to do? Not believe the NCAA's ruling and do his own detective work? Come on now
I can't speak for anyone else, but I am giving Lavin and the staff the benefit of the doubt based on what we know right now, which is not a whole hell of a lot. Of course if it turns out that Thomas, like Walker, wasn't taking any classes then my position on the staff not being somewhat complicit will change.
TRabinowitz
Member
I don't think they knew the transcript was fraudulent or tampered with, BUT college staffs that were recruiting him in spring knew he was a question mark as to whether he qualified. Our coach didn't start seriously recruiting prospects for frontcourt for 2014 class until the spring, and these are the types of situations left in the spring when most other quality players have been snatched up. Usually you choose from:
a) taking a risk on a talented kid with past various issues or qualifying question mark
b) a kid that isn't a very good player as per the level and is in over their head or will get recruited over the next year
When you start recruiting in the spring and have to scramble, this is the type of thing that happens. The staff shouldn't be held accountable for fraudulent transcript but SHOULD be held accountable for not recruiting needs for 2014 until the Spring which led to them having to take this risk.
Under normal circumstances maybe not, but when you're recruiting a kid like Thomas, with a bit of a checkered past, yeah I do think you need to do a bit more due diligence. Having said that, like I said in an earlier post unless it turns out that Thomas was pulling a Walker, I really don't blame Lavin and the staff.
At some point, you ask him what classes he's taking?! How they are going, and what he wants to major in! etc. If you're recruiting a kid you should be able to tell he's at least enrolled in classes at his school! If he was skipping classes occasionally or getting special help, then I'd agree. It's hard for SJU to know that. But being registered for 1 class his entire two years at WCC??
If that's what happened to Keith, like it did with Walker, then you're damn right the staff at SJU should've had a wiff of what was going on.
I am confused by Lavin's comments below. Why are we providing moral support to Thomas? Is he saying that Thomas is being treated unfairly here?
QUEENS, N.Y. (Oct. 29, 2014) - Keith Thomas has been ruled academically ineligible to compete for the St. John's men's basketball team during the 2014-15 season. The University has learned that Thomas does not meet the academic standards required by the NCAA for transfers.
"Academic integrity is treated very seriously at St. John's University and we are committed to maintaining high academic standards for all of our student-athletes," said Director of Athletics Chris Monasch. "Our athletic compliance office recently became aware of information that triggered an additional review of Thomas' academic credentials at Westchester Community College. Our assessment and decision are in accordance with University and NCAA policies."
"We share Keith's disappointment and as a basketball family will provide moral support during this challenging time in his life. Keith clearly has a bright future in basketball and is determined to ultimately further his education," said head coach Steve Lavin.
Thomas was a 2013-14 NJCAA All-American honorable mention at Westchester Community College. The 6-foot-8 forward from Mount Vernon, N.Y. led all Division I junior college players with 15.7 rebounds per game and averaged 15.3 points in 32 appearances.
QUEENS, N.Y. (Oct. 29, 2014) - Keith Thomas has been ruled academically ineligible to compete for the St. John's men's basketball team during the 2014-15 season. The University has learned that Thomas does not meet the academic standards required by the NCAA for transfers.
"Academic integrity is treated very seriously at St. John's University and we are committed to maintaining high academic standards for all of our student-athletes," said Director of Athletics Chris Monasch. "Our athletic compliance office recently became aware of information that triggered an additional review of Thomas' academic credentials at Westchester Community College. Our assessment and decision are in accordance with University and NCAA policies."
"We share Keith's disappointment and as a basketball family will provide moral support during this challenging time in his life. Keith clearly has a bright future in basketball and is determined to ultimately further his education," said head coach Steve Lavin.
Thomas was a 2013-14 NJCAA All-American honorable mention at Westchester Community College. The 6-foot-8 forward from Mount Vernon, N.Y. led all Division I junior college players with 15.7 rebounds per game and averaged 15.3 points in 32 appearances.