Westchester Community College issues-

I think the accountability as it pertains to the coaching staff in this case lies somewhere in the middle of what a lot of people are saying on here.

It is probably unfair to assume or think Lavin & staff knew of transcript fraud, BUT what I can tell you is that during the time schools were recruiting Thomas in the spring, he was always a question mark academically in terms of grades and such to qualify.

I had heard through connection to another staff that had briefly recruited Thomas that he was a roll of the dice in terms of qualifying, so it's definitely fair to say that our staff recruited a kid that may or may not have qualified academically. So while I think it's unfair to pin anything with the fraudulent transcript on the staff, I think it's fair to be critical of Lavin for taking a risk on a kid in an already-thin front court that may not make it or have made it academically.
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But that's what happens when you basically take the recruiting year off and wake up at the 11th hour, you must take chances at that point in time
 
I think the accountability as it pertains to the coaching staff in this case lies somewhere in the middle of what a lot of people are saying on here.

It is probably unfair to assume or think Lavin & staff knew of transcript fraud, BUT what I can tell you is that during the time schools were recruiting Thomas in the spring, he was always a question mark academically in terms of grades and such to qualify.

I had heard through connection to another staff that had briefly recruited Thomas that he was a roll of the dice in terms of qualifying, so it's definitely fair to say that our staff recruited a kid that may or may not have qualified academically. So while I think it's unfair to pin anything with the fraudulent transcript on the staff, I think it's fair to be critical of Lavin for taking a risk on a kid in an already-thin front court that may not make it or have made it academically.
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I don't criticize Lavin on taking a chance on Thomas. The only thing you could make a case to blame Lavin for is the fact that he didn't do enough with the 2014 high school class in the first place. To the point where we were scraping the bottom of the barrel for a WestChester Communtiy College recruit. Thomas seems like a great rebounder, and I would've taken him no matter what. If he was cleared by the NCAA, what do you expect Lavin to do exactly?

You are asking Lavin to go "the NCAA cleared you, but I should know in a few months a scandal is going to surface and your transcripts might've been forged a bit. Good thing I can see into the future and know not take a chance on you Keith sorry!!"


That sounds ridiculous. The NCAA cleared Keith, so what's Lavin supposed to do!?? He can't see the future he couldn't of known this was going to happen.


And again, not all of the facts have come out. If we find out Lavin and the staff knew about shady transcripts beforehand, go ahead blame him for going through with this. But as of right now, Lavin should not receive blame for this problem.
 
I think the accountability as it pertains to the coaching staff in this case lies somewhere in the middle of what a lot of people are saying on here.

It is probably unfair to assume or think Lavin & staff knew of transcript fraud, BUT what I can tell you is that during the time schools were recruiting Thomas in the spring, he was always a question mark academically in terms of grades and such to qualify.

I had heard through connection to another staff that had briefly recruited Thomas that he was a roll of the dice in terms of qualifying, so it's definitely fair to say that our staff recruited a kid that may or may not have qualified academically. So while I think it's unfair to pin anything with the fraudulent transcript on the staff, I think it's fair to be critical of Lavin for taking a risk on a kid in an already-thin front court that may not make it or have made it academically.[/quote

Lavin didn't have any other options, so he had to take chance on Thomas and hope for the best. Just like he had to take a chance on Sanchez. I'll criticize Lavin for not having other options, but not for taking a chance on Thomas. Besides, I'm sure Thomas was scrutinized by the NCAA that much more closely because of his eligibility concerns, and he was cleared. So just don't see how Lavin and staff is even partially at fault here.
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Someone can do a better job of explaining this than me but here is what I have a pretty good grasp on. In order to play college athletics you need to be cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse. Keith Thomas was cleared. Therefore Lavin could extend schollie and accept it. I'd love to find ways to chalk this up to the other eligibility issues but this IF it turns out to be true is a case where the NCAA says yes Keith Thomas is ok and we admit him and plan to play him only for them to go back and look at his records after the fact.

SJU compliance isn't looking for forged transcripts. That falls on the NCAA and the Clearinghouse. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but pretty certain here.
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One of the (many) strange things about this whole situation is that no one in the registrar's office at WCC seems to be implicated in this. At least not yet. It's the registrar who handles transcript requests, not the freakin' assistant basketball coach.
 
Someone can do a better job of explaining this than me but here is what I have a pretty good grasp on. In order to play college athletics you need to be cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse. Keith Thomas was cleared. Therefore Lavin could extend schollie and accept it. I'd love to find ways to chalk this up to the other eligibility issues but this IF it turns out to be true is a case where the NCAA says yes Keith Thomas is ok and we admit him and plan to play him only for them to go back and look at his records after the fact.

SJU compliance isn't looking for forged transcripts. That falls on the NCAA and the Clearinghouse. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but pretty certain here.
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Of the (many) strange things about this whole situation is that no one in the registrar's office at WCC seems to be implicated in this. At least not yet. It's the registrar who handles transcript requests, not the freakin' assistant basketball coach.
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Tip of the iceberg?
 
Someone can do a better job of explaining this than me but here is what I have a pretty good grasp on. In order to play college athletics you need to be cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse. Keith Thomas was cleared. Therefore Lavin could extend schollie and accept it. I'd love to find ways to chalk this up to the other eligibility issues but this IF it turns out to be true is a case where the NCAA says yes Keith Thomas is ok and we admit him and plan to play him only for them to go back and look at his records after the fact.

SJU compliance isn't looking for forged transcripts. That falls on the NCAA and the Clearinghouse. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but pretty certain here.
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Of the (many) strange things about this whole situation is that no one in the registrar's office at WCC seems to be implicated in this. At least not yet. It's the registrar who handles transcript requests, not the freakin' assistant basketball coach.
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Tip of the iceberg?
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Who knows. .maybe the basketball coach was dating someone in the registrar's office. But I don't see how this fraud gets pulled off without someone in that office being complicit.
 
I think the accountability as it pertains to the coaching staff in this case lies somewhere in the middle of what a lot of people are saying on here.

It is probably unfair to assume or think Lavin & staff knew of transcript fraud, BUT what I can tell you is that during the time schools were recruiting Thomas in the spring, he was always a question mark academically in terms of grades and such to qualify.

I had heard through connection to another staff that had briefly recruited Thomas that he was a roll of the dice in terms of qualifying, so it's definitely fair to say that our staff recruited a kid that may or may not have qualified academically. So while I think it's unfair to pin anything with the fraudulent transcript on the staff, I think it's fair to be critical of Lavin for taking a risk on a kid in an already-thin front court that may not make it or have made it academically.
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But that's what happens when you basically take the recruiting year off and wake up at the 11th hour, you must take chances at that point in time
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Very fair criticism, as well as some of the other angles expressed here. In my opinion Lavin didn't recruit enough for the 2014 class until the last minute, at which point this is the type of situation that is left on the table for him to pursue.
 
I think the accountability as it pertains to the coaching staff in this case lies somewhere in the middle of what a lot of people are saying on here.

It is probably unfair to assume or think Lavin & staff knew of transcript fraud, BUT what I can tell you is that during the time schools were recruiting Thomas in the spring, he was always a question mark academically in terms of grades and such to qualify.

I had heard through connection to another staff that had briefly recruited Thomas that he was a roll of the dice in terms of qualifying, so it's definitely fair to say that our staff recruited a kid that may or may not have qualified academically. So while I think it's unfair to pin anything with the fraudulent transcript on the staff, I think it's fair to be critical of Lavin for taking a risk on a kid in an already-thin front court that may not make it or have made it academically.
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But that's what happens when you basically take the recruiting year off and wake up at the 11th hour, you must take chances at that point in time
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This is stuff you repeat when you don't know what you're talking about.
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It might be a fair point. It depends, if Lavin did a good job with the 2014 class early on, would he have ever gotten involved with Keith? It's too hard to tell, I think he still might have because of those eye catching rebounding numbers that we needed.
 
I think the accountability as it pertains to the coaching staff in this case lies somewhere in the middle of what a lot of people are saying on here.

It is probably unfair to assume or think Lavin & staff knew of transcript fraud, BUT what I can tell you is that during the time schools were recruiting Thomas in the spring, he was always a question mark academically in terms of grades and such to qualify.

I had heard through connection to another staff that had briefly recruited Thomas that he was a roll of the dice in terms of qualifying, so it's definitely fair to say that our staff recruited a kid that may or may not have qualified academically. So while I think it's unfair to pin anything with the fraudulent transcript on the staff, I think it's fair to be critical of Lavin for taking a risk on a kid in an already-thin front court that may not make it or have made it academically.[/quote

Lavin didn't have any other options, so he had to take chance on Thomas and hope for the best. Just like he had to take a chance on Sanchez. I'll criticize Lavin for not having other options, but not for taking a chance on Thomas. Besides, I'm sure Thomas was scrutinized by the NCAA that much more closely because of his eligibility concerns, and he was cleared. So just don't see how Lavin and staff is even partially at fault here.
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Exactly.
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If Thomas is out, we will be hammered off the boards. Couple that with a below average 3 point game and almost no bench scoring, and we are looking at a potential disaster of a season. Never thought that we would be rebuilding all over again 5 years after Lavin took over.
 
Knowing nothing about the specifics of this situation, and only our history with anything remotely resembling this situation generally, unless you are a glutton for soul-crushing disappointment, set the expectation that Thomas will not play for us this year. That way you will either be:

(A) pleasantly surprised when he's declared ineligible to start the year, but with the prospect that we could have him at the start of second semester (my prediction for most likely outcome, as this is right out of our playbook when stuff like this arises); or

(B) floored when this issue is determined to have no impact whatsoever on Thomas (my hope obviously) such that you consider hanging up your sneaks as a SJU fan, knowing that the chances of ever experiencing such a shocking high rooting for this program again is unlikely.
 
and now this..................

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/loc...wcc-athletes-transcripts-ncaa-fraud/18116651/
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"Meanwhile, St. John's University officials continue to review the transcript of basketball forward Keith Thomas, a Mount Vernon native and former Yorktown High School player who led the nation in rebounding at the junior college level while at WCC. That review was also prompted by The Journal News' investigation.

Stephen Dombroski, St. John's associate athletics director for communications, said Wednesday he doesn't know when the review of Thomas' transcript will be completed."

So they can review the transcript now when it is rather obvious to me it should have been done prior to admittance. If nothing else to avoid the "not again, we are jinxed" feeling among the few fans SJU has left. On a more personal note, I appreciate a poster being allowed to reply to me in a less than civil manner on this thread, but then my replies are deleted. As the kids so intelligently say "Whatever", selective moderation at its finest.
 
The options are that either he earned his degree legitimately, or he didn't. If he didn't, he doesn't play at all until he completes his Associates Degree and qualifies. That won't happen mid-year.
 
The options are that either he earned his degree legitimately, or he didn't. If he didn't, he doesn't play at all until he completes his Associates Degree and qualifies. That won't happen mid-year.
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Completely understood. I wasn't being serious, just trying to make light of the fact that we are potentially dealing with eligibility issues again two weeks before the season starts.
 
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