The Tulsa rumors

[monte]

I hope Anderson stays, since I think he's building something good here for the long haul (although this season was a big disappointment).  I won't be heartbroken if he leaves, however, and would gladly sign up for a proven mid-major coach with a track record of building a program and ties to the area.  To me, that means Shaheen Holloway, King Rice, Jared Grosso, and James Jones (we were a little harsh when he came up he last time, myself included).  I'd be fine with any of them.

Van Macon
Roll of the dice, sure. Won't generate huge headlines. Folks will think back to Mahoney/Norm.
But short-term he's the best chance at keeping the roster together. Kids love him.
Long-term, I'm bullish on this guy's career. I think he will be a great HC somewhere. 

You mean the same roster that couldn't even make the NIT this season, and which will be without at least Champ, Smith and Cobrun(am I missing anyone?) next season ? Not to mention any other kids who may leave even if CMA stays? My guess, we're gonna loose half of this year's  team even if CMA stays. And with the exception of Posh  and maybe Wheeler, there's no one else who a good new coach can't replace easily. If CMA leaves, I'll take my chances with a solid mid major coach over an asst with no head coaching experience whatsoever(that I'm aware of). 

 

[room112]

If there's no statement put out by the AD or coach today, then I believe that there are legs to this and there is negotiations ongoing.  No other reason not to put it to rest.

If that happens, I hope it is quick, but I assume that means a lot of defections in players and recruits.  Notwithstanding that, I agree with what another poster said, I would not stand in his way and I would waive whatever break-up fee there might be.  I think that this would advance the inevitable and allow us to regroup a year earlier.

 of course there will be a lot of defections. They signed up to play a certain system under Anderson and any coach we bring in will not be playing the same system. It is total rebuild time again if CMA leaves. I hope he does not.
We need to hear something today. If not then I agree with the posters who are saying the story has "legs".   

Don't forget that when CMA arrived here he was able to recruit back Mullin's players to stay. Including the important ones at the time like Heron and Figueroa. So we never know if there is a new coach who he will be able to retain.

 

[JohnnyFan]

PAULTZMAN WROTE:   Cragg needs to communicate something loud and clear to avoid stoking panic and giving competitors grist to use to differentiate their program from ours. Silence will only create a vacuum and preclude any degree of stability this program desperately need.


Cragg is in over his head.  He's part of the "feet on the desk" legacy that has handcuffed the Johnnies for decades.  Cragg was a "yes" man at Duke...a program that ran itself like a utility...  This job is way different.  He's no communicator.  Just giving Coach Anderson an extension till '26 should tell you something.  There's no way the school can afford to fire him and bring in another coach unless Cragg is fired and his salary goes towards Anderson's replacement.   

Disagree on Cragg being a "feet on the desk" type of guy.  Also, we need to understand that, right now, this is not an attractive place for established ADs and/or coaches.  Firing Cragg, a respected figure in multiple NCAA circles, would make it an even less attractive destination.   The frustration is warranted, but let's be prudent.  

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Nobody is mentioning Chris Mack as a potential candidate! Why?

No more coaches who were fired from their prior jobs please!
                    That sounds like a good idea but , in nearly every Sport , Pro or College , there has always been the belief that a Manager or Coach elsewhere , can do better in their next job . Look at the Mets  with Showalter. He’s not the only one who has been recycled . It’s part of  the reality of the World .   Now , why would Chris Mack not be a Candidate?  I’m unfamiliar with the situation at L’ville and his firing .              If you eliminate fired Coaches  your Candidatelist gets smaller right away . Just saying . 

 

[lawmanfan]

I sincerely hope that CMA promptly issues a statement stating that he is staying at St. John's to completes the rebuild he has undertaken.

If however CMA is attempting to use the Tulsa opening as leverage to renegotiate then I hope that Fr. Shanley and Cragg say "no" and allow him to take the Tulsa job.  If CMA would rather be coaching Tulsa then Cragg should not stand in his way.
  
If CMA departs then St. John's should undertake an aggressive search and find a solid young head coach with college head coaching experience.  Youth and ambition are good qualities that grey haired posters frequently overlook.

St. John's fans must face reality; the St. John's head coaching position is not the destination job as it once was. If the St. John's position is a 'stepping- stone" position than so be it;  Xavier and Dayton have done well with revolving door coaches.

Yes, we are proving it again this off season that, We Are St. John's.

 

Excellent post.
I also see from this thread that Macon is the new St. Jean.
Everybody loves backup QBs, it seems.

 

[fordham96]

This one just baffles me as well.  Posh obviously but outside of him the roster was mediocre at best excluding Champagnie and you are losing him regardless.  I don't understand this continuity nonsense if your talent level is mediocre to begin with.

Why are we so concerned about keeping a roster together that couldn’t make the NIT and is losing its best player?

 

[redmanwest]

I, for one, believe that the roster severely underperformed its talent level.  As I have said throughout, just a little short in several aspects and a few bounces of the ball or free throws made and we are playing post-season play.  Yeah, yeah, you are what your record says,.  But it is not that easy.  

 

[Andrew]

I hope Anderson stays, since I think he's building something good here for the long haul (although this season was a big disappointment).  I won't be heartbroken if he leaves, however, and would gladly sign up for a proven mid-major coach with a track record of building a program and ties to the area.  To me, that means Shaheen Holloway, King Rice, Jared Grosso, and James Jones (we were a little harsh when he came up he last time, myself included).  I'd be fine with any of them.

These guys fall into very different categories. Jones is 58 and has been the head coach at Yale for 22 years. Rice will be 54 next season and has coached Monmouth for 12 years. I wouldn't call either of those guys younger which doesn't mean you can't consider them. Shaheen Holloway will be 46, was a long time assistant to Willard at Iona and Seton Hall and has coached St. Peters for four years. Grasso is the youngest at 41 and most similar to Holloway in experience. He has a lot of experience in the region as an assistant, primarily at Fordham and Iona and has been the head coach at Bryant for four years. If you are looking for a "young coach". Holloway and Grasso would be two you would target from this group. Rice would be a more experienced higher and Jones is a veteran.
 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I sincerely hope that CMA promptly issues a statement stating that he is staying at St. John's to completes the rebuild he has undertaken.

If however CMA is attempting to use the Tulsa opening as leverage to renegotiate then I hope that Fr. Shanley and Cragg say "no" and allow him to take the Tulsa job.  If CMA would rather be coaching Tulsa then Cragg should not stand in his way.
  
If CMA departs then St. John's should undertake an aggressive search and find a solid young head coach with college head coaching experience.  Youth and ambition are good qualities that grey haired posters frequently overlook.

St. John's fans must face reality; the St. John's head coaching position is not the destination job as it once was. If the St. John's position is a 'stepping- stone" position than so be it;  Xavier and Dayton have done well with revolving door coaches.

Yes, we are proving it again this off season that, We Are St. John's.


 

Excellent post.
I also see from this thread that Macon is the new St. Jean.
Everybody loves backup QBs, it seems.

With all due respect, one of them has had a career in college hoops and success recruiting prospects. The other seemed like a really talented young coach who was asked to do way to much for someone at his experience level.

St Jean barely recruited while here, having him take over would be a lot different than Macon if you ask me. Not that he’s my first choice.

 

[MainMan]

fordham96 post=464077This one just baffles me as well.  Posh obviously but outside of him the roster was mediocre at best excluding Champagnie and you are losing him regardless.  I don't understand this continuity nonsense if your talent level is mediocre to begin with.

Why are we so concerned about keeping a roster together that couldn’t make the NIT and is losing its best player?

Counterpoint: Lavin's first year with Norm's leftovers. 

Keeping that core of mediocre underachievers together led to one of the best seasons in recent memory by STJ standards.

Mullin's first year was a team slapped together at the last minute with glue. And it was awful. 

 

[kranmars]

I sincerely hope that CMA promptly issues a statement stating that he is staying at St. John's to completes the rebuild he has undertaken.

If however CMA is attempting to use the Tulsa opening as leverage to renegotiate then I hope that Fr. Shanley and Cragg say "no" and allow him to take the Tulsa job.  If CMA would rather be coaching Tulsa then Cragg should not stand in his way.
  
If CMA departs then St. John's should undertake an aggressive search and find a solid young head coach with college head coaching experience.  Youth and ambition are good qualities that grey haired posters frequently overlook.

St. John's fans must face reality; the St. John's head coaching position is not the destination job as it once was. If the St. John's position is a 'stepping- stone" position than so be it;  Xavier and Dayton have done well with revolving door coaches.

Yes, we are proving it again this off season that, We Are St. John's.


 

Excellent post.
I also see from this thread that Macon is the new St. Jean.
Everybody loves backup QBs, it seems.

But even Tom Brady started out as a backup QB.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

fordham96 post=464077This one just baffles me as well.  Posh obviously but outside of him the roster was mediocre at best excluding Champagnie and you are losing him regardless.  I don't understand this continuity nonsense if your talent level is mediocre to begin with.

Why are we so concerned about keeping a roster together that couldn’t make the NIT and is losing its best player?

Counterpoint: Lavin's first year. 


 

Additional counterpoint: are we already forgetting how important experience is in college basketball?

 

[Johnny Rapper]

PAULTZMAN WROTE:   Cragg needs to communicate something loud and clear to avoid stoking panic and giving competitors grist to use to differentiate their program from ours. Silence will only create a vacuum and preclude any degree of stability this program desperately need.


Cragg is in over his head.  He's part of the "feet on the desk" legacy that has handcuffed the Johnnies for decades.  Cragg was a "yes" man at Duke...a program that ran itself like a utility...  This job is way different.  He's no communicator.  Just giving Coach Anderson an extension till '26 should tell you something.  There's no way the school can afford to fire him and bring in another coach unless Cragg is fired and his salary goes towards Anderson's replacement.   

Completely agree and have been saying this all along. Keven White, Cragg  and his staff had been entrenched in their jobs for quite some time. They never had to make a change in their basketball program's direction nor would they have been able to do so. It was one good old boys network with a few women as well.

 

[fordham96]

WRT Lavin.

Having 10-11 seniors on your roster is an anomaly now that will almost NEVER happen no matter how good your retention is and that was after a coaching change.  And that was 1 year and he literally had to change the entire roster.

Again I can play that game too, Shaka Smart had to replace 9 players off of a NON NCAA Team including 3 starters (Theo John, Dawson Garcia and DJ Carton.  All 3 were significant.  And after all the roster turnover they actually exceeded what they did last year and what was projected of them this year.

 

 

[otis]

St Jean barely recruited while here,

 

——
I am not sure that the above statement is true.

Certainly Mullin had Matt as his lead recruiter but it may be unfair that St. Jean “barely recruited”.  

St.Jean was lead recruiter for Joe Girard taking a home visit to Glens Falls and hosting Girard and his Dad on an unofficial to the St. John’s campus.  If he was involved with Girard it is reasonable to believe he was involved with others.

And no, I did not favor St. Jean to be head coach and would not favor Van Macon (who I only hear positive thing about) to be head coach.  

Head coaching experience counts.  

See poor head coaching results of Mullin, Norm Roberts, Ewing, and most  others hired with no prior College head coaching experience.

 

 

[Johnny Rapper]

Macon??????? If there is a coaching change, Cragg better hit a grand slam if he wants to give the program the slightest bit of relevance. Macon would be bunt single at best and would be about as exciting as watching second graders play a game of hoops from a non parent perspective.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

St Jean barely recruited while here,



 

——
I am not sure that the above statement is true.

Certainly Mullin had Matt as his lead recruiter but it may be unfair that St. Jean “barely recruited”.  

St.Jean was lead recruiter for Joe Girard taking a home visit to Glens Falls and hosting Girard and his Dad on an unofficial to the St. John’s campus.  If he was involved with Girard it is reasonable to believe he was involved with others.

And no, I did not favor St. Jean to be head coach and would not favor Van Macon (who I only hear positive thing about) to be head coach.  

Head coaching experience counts.  

See poor head coaching results of Mullin, Norm Roberts, Ewing, and most  others hired with no prior College head coaching experience.



 

He was involved with Girard because he has a connection with Jimmer Fredette who is Joe’s idol and hometown mentor. This is one situation I can speak personally on.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

St John’s’ last three tourney teams were lead nearly entirely by upperclassmen who had been with the program for multiple years. We are great at getting rid of players before they have become good enough to succeed here. 

I know I want to see an upperclassmen backcourt of Posh and Wusu. 

 

[fordham96]

SJU has had 3 tourney teams in 11 years and the takeaway from that is they all had significant upperclassmen?  OK.

That would not be by takeaway.

But regardless the rules have changed significantly.  That stuff is not going to happen anymore.

Amaseinyourface post=464096
St John’s’ last three tourney teams were lead nearly entirely by upperclassmen who had been with the program for multiple years. We are great at getting rid of players before they have become good enough to succeed here. 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

SJU has had 3 tourney teams in 11 years and the takeaway from that is they all had significant upperclassmen?  OK.

That would not be by takeaway.

But regardless the rules have changed significantly.  That stuff is not going to happen anymore.

Amaseinyourface post=464096
St John’s’ last three tourney teams were lead nearly entirely by upperclassmen who had been with the program for multiple years. We are great at getting rid of players before they have become good enough to succeed here. 

When was the last time we had a team of upperclassmen that had been with the program and we didn’t make the tourney? Broken down Hill, Lamont Hamilton and Geno count? When we are old, we are good. That’s my take away.