Techs and refs

I've seen coaches go well past the mid court line without even being admonished no less t'd.

This punk of a ref too it upon himself to enforce a little used rule simply because Mullin bitches too much. He allowed Mullin to get under his skin and honestly Mullin wasn't even complaining mostly to him.

The dual techs were also quick whistled even as xavier's coach was trying to earn a tech of his own.

When Ponds committed what they reviewed for another flagrant, instead of separating the players farrell instead only corralled ponds and ignored the xavier player who was fouled.

There was a missed obvious goaltending on a Ponds shot, and yea he got grabbed or hacked on every drive. Hard to blame him for mouthing off in frustration as the game slipped away
 
[quote="JackofVirginia" post=326461]Could we be leading the Big East in technicals by both coach and players?[/quote]

We might be leading the country.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=326471]According to fox sports team has 12, ponds with 5, clark, Trimble, li with 2, heron with 1.[/quote]

Any idea how many Mullin has?
 
Bring back Higgins and Burr.
At least they were equal opportunists and screwed both teams the same
 
Tried looking this up but couldn't find it. Total techs by team...I'd guess we have around 15 even though it feels like 20. It's pretty rare to watch a college hoops game and see a tech. We seem to get a few every damn game. I remember last season Simon dunked and hung on the hoop for .0001 second and got a tech. No one else is getting these techs called on them. It really is a case of the refs hating Mullin. It's the weirdest thing to see refs taking all their anger out on the coach of the HOME team. We are the only team in the conference that has no home cooking of any degree.

By the way, finally saw the clip on TV when we all chanted "these refs suck". It was DEAFENING and the announcer made mention of it. Just felt like there was nothing we could do right in the eyes of the zebras. Again, we lose regardless because of the obscene rebound differential, but it would have been a game to the end without the refs forcing their presence every 3 seconds.

The refs last night were the equivalent of cops constantly pulling you over for doing 57 in a 55 and throwing you in jail for a broken light.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=326477]Tried looking this up but couldn't find it. Total techs by team...I'd guess we have around 15 even though it feels like 20. It's pretty rare to watch a college hoops game and see a tech. We seem to get a few every damn game. I remember last season Simon dunked and hung on the hoop for .0001 second and got a tech. No one else is getting these techs called on them. It really is a case of the refs hating Mullin. It's the weirdest thing to see refs taking all their anger out on the coach of the HOME team. We are the only team in the conference that has no home cooking of any degree.

By the way, finally saw the clip on TV when we all chanted "these refs suck". It was DEAFENING and the announcer made mention of it. Just felt like there was nothing we could do right in the eyes of the zebras. Again, we lose regardless because of the obscene rebound differential, but it would have been a game to the end without the refs forcing their presence every 3 seconds.

The refs last night were the equivalent of cops constantly pulling you over for doing 57 in a 55 and throwing you in jail for a broken light.[/quote]

The players have 12 according to Fox Sports. I don't know if it includes last night's game. It does not say how many the coaching staff got.

[URL]https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/st-johns-red-storm-team-stats?season[/URL]=2018&category=MISC&time=0&team=0
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=326306]The refs probably have a website refmen.com where they have threads dedicated to screwing us[/quote]

———-

...... and the thread congratulating the referee for the bogus call in the first Seton Hall game that cost StJohn’s the game has 100+ “Likes” from his fellow referees expressing their approval.

————
Blame for StJohn’s seeming conflict with Big East referees goes both ways.

Yeah, Mullin may (or may not) be disrespectful to the refs but the refs are suppose to be professionals who put their petty differences behind them and impartially judge the players play.

After the technical was called on Mullin there was a series of calls against StJohn’s (one in particular against Pinds) that were bogus. So please do not place all blame on Mullin and his players.

The refs have agreed to, and are being paid to put personal anomosities behind them and make neutral calls which they clearly are not doing..
 
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Numerous posters have said the refs didn't cost us this game. It was a 2 or 3 possession game with a couple of minutes left, and the foul disparity was 33-5. So either the 33-5 was fair or the refs stole this game.
Two things I know
Billions of dollars are bet on college basketball.
If Stu Jackson thought the refs were going out of their way to cheat us, he would do absolutely nothing.
 
I have been on record that I feel Mullin argues too much for my liking but more importantly permits the players to overreact to every call. That said, I thought last night called for Mullin to go crazy and get a technical (at least) in the first half when Ponds never got a call while driving to the basket. We all watch the replays and think the calls are going against us. Most fan bases do, but bottom line is what we are doing isn't working so there needs to be a change in approach. I am really concerned that we will lose our next three games.I guess the only good sign is that most of our worst games have been at home.
 
[quote="SJUNC" post=326492]I have been on record that I feel Mullin argues too much for my liking but more importantly permits the players to overreact to every call. That said, I thought last night called for Mullin to go crazy and get a technical (at least) in the first half when Ponds never got a call while driving to the basket. We all watch the replays and think the calls are going against us. Most fan bases do, but bottom line is what we are doing isn't working so there needs to be a change in approach. I am really concerned that we will lose our next three games.I guess the only good sign is that most of our worst games have been at home.[/quote]

How about the refs change their approach? They're acting like dictators with a real bone to pick. As Maher said, you'd think Mullin stole one of their gf's back in the day or something. Never been to a game where literally 99% of the calls were against the home team. Doesn't happen by chance. 25 vs. 15 FT's ok...but it was 33 vs. 5! Even on the road that would be crazy with Xavier home cooking. The old adage is that you don't insert yourself in the game as a ref, you simply officiate it. These refs have punished us purposely.
 
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Overall we've been called for 536 (258th) fouls this year. Opponents have been called for 482 (253rd).

In Big East play its 305(10th in BE) to 252 (8th)
 
[quote="Moose" post=326504]Overall we've been called for 536 (258th) fouls this year. Opponents have been called for 482 (253rd).

In Big East play its 305(10th in BE) to 252 (8th)[/quote]

Our defensive strategy relies a lot on stealing the ball which means we get a lot of reach in fouls. The difference is probably reasonable.
 
Look the call for being out of the box was nitpicky and just a power play by the ref. Yea he goes out of the box and even onto the court, but just about every D1 coach does this, and tbh Mullin wasn't obscenely out of bounds from the rule. He appeared to stray, like every coach does in a very loud arena, 5 or 6 feet out of the box. The refs, who missed a ton of calls, even with 3 refs on the court they don't zone themselves and all watch the ball, should not have even been concerned with Mullin's position at that point.

Also given the juncture in the game, strict application of that particular rule is not only incorrect, it was egregious. It made it that much tougher for our guys to come back at a point where the 6th man crow became really engaged. The refs forgot the first rule of reffing and that is it's not personal, and so long as their isn't obscene insults hurled, you tolerate a lot.

Refs control the game, players, and coaches by their demeanor. A good ref, can tamp things down by coming over to the coach, smiling, maybe even saying "I missed that and will look for it", and also advising with a smile to calm it down a bit. I've been to tons of hs games and AAU games over the years where the very best refs do this. If you think college is very much different, on Long Island we've had places where teams don't play in front of a crowd because riots have broken out.

Once the refs lose control, and last night they came close, fans act up in inappropriate ways, and I think we approached the point where I wouldn't have been surprised if something got tossed onto the court at a ref.

For the record, the "These refs suck" chant started with the students on the utopia parkway side behind the basket and carried over only to the other student section. Where adults sit, it was audible and fairly loud, but not deafening. Our younger fans don't remember when you literally couldn't hear the person next to you speak, and the bleachers were so overcrowded that ushers had a task of keeping fans from sitting in the aisles (fire hazard)
 
[quote="ron " post=326506][quote="Moose" post=326504]Overall we've been called for 536 (258th) fouls this year. Opponents have been called for 482 (253rd).

In Big East play its 305(10th in BE) to 252 (8th)[/quote]

Our defensive strategy relies a lot on stealing the ball which means we get a lot of reach in fouls. The difference is probably reasonable.[/quote]

Agree. The ranking difference especially in smaller test case like BE isn't much. If our opponents were ranked Top 4 and we were 10 I'd say there is a bigger problem. Again we are earning what's getting called. If we shut our mouths and stopped flailing our arms at every whistle it would be non story.
 
Of course SJU could have played better. We have seen them play better plenty of times this year. So that is frustrating in its own way and there is a game thread about that. Now as to the refs. In the moment, at the game last night, I kept thinking the referees are bad but are not costing SJU the game. Then I got home and looked at the boxscore.

SJU 29 field goals scored, Xavier 25
SJU 11 3's. Xavier 9

SJU 4-5 from the line
Xavier 25-33 from the line

Then I rewatched the second half this morning. It's very diffcult to watch that and feel the refs were just bad. I kept looking for one call that could have went Xaviers way but did not. Just one time a Xavier guy was bumped with no call, or got called for a foul when it was not a foul. Good luck finding it. On the other hand. . . .

Even Custer and Kustock were questioning the officiating, and they have no skin in the game.

Now, as to why this keeps happening? Coincidence is hard to fathom. Watching the give and take with Mullin with these guys is a good clue. As Mike Zaun and others have said in this thread they hate the guy. And yes he rides them all game so we know what is generating the hate.

Refs are human and it shouldn't be too surprising that if you are killing them all the time it could cost you a call here or there. So I'm on the side of Mullin should lighten up. But last nights ref "performance" goes way beyond a call here or there. I don't think it is an exageration that they swung the game by 10 points. Well, the line was 4 or 5, so basically the refs tilted the outcome to a point where SJU had to outperform their normal play by 5 or 6 points. I find that reprehensible.

The Seton Hall debacle was the first time I have ever posted about the refs in my life as it has been my long standing view that a team needs to find a way to win regardless. Now here I go again, but I don't know how to ignore what I am seeing.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=326507]Look the call for being out of the box was nitpicky and just a power play by the ref. Yea he goes out of the box and even onto the court, but just about every D1 coach does this, and tbh Mullin wasn't obscenely out of bounds from the rule. He appeared to stray, like every coach does in a very loud arena, 5 or 6 feet out of the box. The refs, who missed a ton of calls, even with 3 refs on the court they don't zone themselves and all watch the ball, should not have even been concerned with Mullin's position at that point.

Also given the juncture in the game, strict application of that particular rule is not only incorrect, it was egregious. It made it that much tougher for our guys to come back at a point where the 6th man crow became really engaged. The refs forgot the first rule of reffing and that is it's not personal, and so long as their isn't obscene insults hurled, you tolerate a lot.

Refs control the game, players, and coaches by their demeanor. A good ref, can tamp things down by coming over to the coach, smiling, maybe even saying "I missed that and will look for it", and also advising with a smile to calm it down a bit. I've been to tons of hs games and AAU games over the years where the very best refs do this. If you think college is very much different, on Long Island we've had places where teams don't play in front of a crowd because riots have broken out.

Once the refs lose control, and last night they came close, fans act up in inappropriate ways, and I think we approached the point where I wouldn't have been surprised if something got tossed onto the court at a ref.

For the record, the "These refs suck" chant started with the students on the utopia parkway side behind the basket and carried over only to the other student section. Where adults sit, it was audible and fairly loud, but not deafening. Our younger fans don't remember when you literally couldn't hear the person next to you speak, and the bleachers were so overcrowded that ushers had a task of keeping fans from sitting in the aisles (fire hazard)[/quote]

Great post, you put it better than I could. I seriously thought the same standing behind the basket. I had the thought of "I wouldn't be shocked if a fan ran on the court and tackled a ref or threw something". You could just feel it in the air. We've had gripes with the refs since the SHU game and we never got a formal apology and admission of error which made things worse. Then we get a 33 vs. 5 FT game giving the opponent home cooking in our own sold out house and you're asking for raging fans. For the record I had absolutely no part in the chant behind the basket...I wouldn't dare ;).
 
[quote="Moose" post=326508][quote="ron " post=326506][quote="Moose" post=326504]Overall we've been called for 536 (258th) fouls this year. Opponents have been called for 482 (253rd).

In Big East play its 305(10th in BE) to 252 (8th)[/quote]

Our defensive strategy relies a lot on stealing the ball which means we get a lot of reach in fouls. The difference is probably reasonable.[/quote]

Agree. The ranking difference especially in smaller test case like BE isn't much. If our opponents were ranked Top 4 and we were 10 I'd say there is a bigger problem. Again we are earning what's getting called. If we shut our mouths and stopped flailing our arms at every whistle it would be non story.[/quote]

Agreed the idea that free throw or foul disparity is somehow always attributed to bad officiating is nonsense. Suck it up and play better.

You think Xavier has been getting a favorable whistle when they were 3-8? You think the officials are favoring a 36 year old first year coach, Travis Steele, because suddenly they have won 5 in a row? They have won 5 in a row because they are playing better on both sides of the court.
 
I'd like to think the refs do not come into our games looking to screw us. However, I do think that they tire of Mullin's antics and players complaints. As far as staying from the coaches box, when you curse and complain the whole game you are not going to be given much leeway.
 
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