SJU Transfer Targets/Possibilities

[fordham96]

This probably dismisses the notion that the BE transfer rules prevents a "former" BE player from transferring to a BE school even if the school they are coming from is a non-BE school.  Wondered about that with Akinjo and McClung both trasnferring earlier although McClung decided to stay in draft.

For the record not a big fan of this:
1)Decent but not great numbers from a smaller school/conference
2)Already transferred so would require a waiver to play immediately since he would not qualify for the 1 time free transfer rule.

Moose post=434274

Was previously at Hall

 

[NCJohnnie]

I get that stats aren't everything and Dunn was a good player who played good man defense, but he averaged 9 ppg. 3, rbds, 4 assists, 2.5 turnovers and shot 41% from the field, 15% from three and 69% from the foul line and was for sure a mixed blessing in the final minutes. He can be replaced, I'm frankly more worried about replacing Greg.  I think the kid from Tulane could be a capable backup for Posh and Smith (who I hope can replace Greg's shooting).
 

 

[Andrew]

I get that stats aren't everything and Dunn was a good player who played good man defense, but he averaged 9 ppg. 3, rbds, 4 assists, 2.5 turnovers and shot 41% from the field, 15% from three and 69% from the foul line and was for sure a mixed blessing in the final minutes. He can be replaced, I'm frankly more worried about replacing Greg.  I think the kid from Tulane could be a capable backup for Posh and Smith (who I hope can replace Greg's shooting).

Smith is a very good shooter. 

 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Not taking a shot at the BE but the American isn’t chump change. His numbers in conference are pretty solid. Certainly not on Alvardo’s level but could fill the playmaking role left by Dunn while maybe giving more of a shooting threat from outside. Not that his numbers say he’s a knockdown shooter though. Would also need the additional waiver.  

 

[Notanalum]

I don’t think Dunn was “under appreciated” at all. He was a great pickup. He’s got some limitations offensively which we all lived with. But his effort, energy and appreciation for SJU makes him a favorite of mine 

 

[boo haarvey]

I get that stats aren't everything and Dunn was a good player who played good man defense, but he averaged 9 ppg. 3, rbds, 4 assists, 2.5 turnovers and shot 41% from the field, 15% from three and 69% from the foul line and was for sure a mixed blessing in the final minutes. He can be replaced, I'm frankly more worried about replacing Greg.  I think the kid from Tulane could be a capable backup for Posh and Smith (who I hope can replace Greg's shooting).

Exactly, stats aren’t everything.  Dunn’s numbers last year were somewhat diminished by his slow start due to the concussion he suffered early in the season.

 He was one of the few guys on the team that could create his own shot.  He was an excellent defender, a dependable ball handler,  an improving passer and a high energy “character kid” who emerged as a team leader and mentor to Posh.  

And let’s not forget that the team won its last two Big East games of the year after Posh went down in no small part due to Dunn.  

I liked Williams a lot, but there is no doubt in my mind that Dunn, notwithstanding his flaws, was more valuable to the team over the past two years.

 

 

[fordham96]

That is where I differ I don't do the player x can replace player y production.  It usually doesn't neatly work out that way and furthermore SJU has players on the roster that individually or in combination can replace Dunn.  Not worried about that. The current roster is not at a level where I think it can be an NCAA team at this point even if Champagnie comes back.  They need another proven high level player.  Walker is not it and my guess is if they go hard after him it means they do not think they will be adding someone like Alvarado.

Amaseinyourface post=434281
Not taking a shot at the BE but the American isn’t chump change. His numbers in conference are pretty solid. Certainly not on Alvardo’s level but could fill the playmaking role left by Dunn while maybe giving more of a shooting threat from outside. Not that his numbers say he’s a knockdown shooter though. Would also need the additional waiver.  

 

[Amaseinyourface]

That is where I differ I don't do the player x can replace player y production.  It usually doesn't neatly work out that way and furthermore SJU has players on the roster that individually or in combination can replace Dunn.  Not worried about that. The current roster is not at a level where I think it can be an NCAA team at this point even if Champagnie comes back.  They need another proven high level player.  Walker is not it and my guess is if they go hard after him it means they do not think they will be adding someone like Alvarado.

Amaseinyourface post=434281
Not taking a shot at the BE but the American isn’t chump change. His numbers in conference are pretty solid. Certainly not on Alvardo’s level but could fill the playmaking role left by Dunn while maybe giving more of a shooting threat from outside. Not that his numbers say he’s a knockdown shooter though. Would also need the additional waiver.  

Regardless of talent level, my opinion is we have lost a lot in terms of play making/facilitating. That’s where Dunn played a big part and Williams chipped in. I like the guards we have brought in but I’ve said it countless times they had more TOs than assists last year. So as of now, I don’t think we really have a group of players who even in combination can replace then play making ability that Dunn brought. Might not be Walker, but he’s a guy in that “mold”.

 

[BrooklynRed]

I enjoyed Dunn's effort for us (and his Brooklyn roots) but Dunn needs to play point guard if he is going to play for pay so transfer may allow him to be lead PG which is better for his future.

 

[boo haarvey]

I enjoyed Dunn's effort for us (and his Brooklyn roots) but Dunn needs to play point guard if he is going to play for pay so transfer may allow him to be lead PG which is better for his future.

He was our primary ball handler this year 

 

[NCJohnnie]

Sorry Boo but Posh was our primary ball handler this year as he will be as long as he is on the team. Posh and Champ are.the only guys on our team who are not replaceable. 

 

[MCNPA]

That is where I differ I don't do the player x can replace player y production.  It usually doesn't neatly work out that way and furthermore SJU has players on the roster that individually or in combination can replace Dunn.  Not worried about that. The current roster is not at a level where I think it can be an NCAA team at this point even if Champagnie comes back.  They need another proven high level player.  Walker is not it and my guess is if they go hard after him it means they do not think they will be adding someone like Alvarado.

Amaseinyourface post=434281
Not taking a shot at the BE but the American isn’t chump change. His numbers in conference are pretty solid. Certainly not on Alvardo’s level but could fill the playmaking role left by Dunn while maybe giving more of a shooting threat from outside. Not that his numbers say he’s a knockdown shooter though. Would also need the additional waiver.  

Regardless of talent level, my opinion is we have lost a lot in terms of play making/facilitating. That’s where Dunn played a big part and Williams chipped in. I like the guards we have brought in but I’ve said it countless times they had more TOs than assists last year. So as of now, I don’t think we really have a group of players who even in combination can replace then play making ability that Dunn brought. Might not be Walker, but he’s a guy in that “mold”.

I don’t understand that though.  Assists and play making are two different things. Yes Dunn averaged 4 assists while guys like Stef Smith averaged 1.6 and Mathis 0.8 but total difference is only 1-2 assists per game.  As far as Play making goes, Stef and Montez do a heck of a lot of that and both have strengths that Dunn doesn’t have, like the ability to make shots.  Stef is a very good shooter and playmaker but his role was more to score on that team as was Mathis.  I think part of Dunn’s increased assists numbers were also because he couldn’t shoot at all from the outside so he had to pass or drive and kick.  

I agree we could use another Combo guard and obviously we are looking to add one, but I think to say none of the guys can replace the 1 or 2 extra assists that Dunn has over Stef, Montez etc is unlikely to be true.  Those guys will likely  play different roles on this team than their former teams as well and their offensive abilities will create plenty of “playmaking” opportunities.

That said, let’s find one more combo guard that can play the point a bit  and dish out a few assists to be sure.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

MCN, last year Dunn and Williams combined for

137 assists and 83 TOs
=1.65 A:TO

Smirh and Mathis combined for 
45 assists and 58 TO’s
=  .78 assist A:TO ratio with 92 LESS assists. 

I don’t know what else’s to say If you don’t think that looks like a step back in playmaking ability. 

And I’m sorry but as for what our guards coming in have shown, a junior who in three years has yet to shoot better than 38% from the field, yet to shoot 30% from three, yet to shoot 70% from the line and has 90 assists for his career has not shown to be a playmaker or a shotmaker. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have strengths that Dunn or Williams didnt. 

 

[Mean Gene]

MCN, last year Dunn and Williams combined for

137 assists and 83 TOs
=1.65 A:TO

Smirh and Mathis combined for 
45 assists and 58 TO’s
=  .78 assist A:TO ratio with 92 LESS assists. 

I don’t know what else’s to say If you don’t think that looks like a step back in playmaking ability. 

And I’m sorry but as for what our guards coming in have shown, a junior who in three years has yet to shoot better than 38% from the field, yet to shoot 30% from three, yet to shoot 70% from the line and has 90 assists for his career has not shown to be a playmaker or a shotmaker. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have strengths that Dunn or Williams didnt. 

Mase, I think a lot depends on what roles Smith and Mathis were asked to play for their teams last year as opposed to what roles Dunn and Williams were asked to play here. Style of play comes into it also. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m just saying let’s wait and see what CMA will expect of these guys here and how they perform.

 

[boo haarvey]

Sorry Boo but Posh was our primary ball handler this year as he will be as long as he is on the team. Posh and Champ are.the only guys on our team who are not replaceable. 

Hmm, appears I’m in the minority on this.  I thought  Posh was terrific last year.  His defense was incredible and he was strong around the rim.  Nonetheless, the half court was not his strength last year and  it seemed to me that Dunn had significant ball handling responsibilities, moreso that Posh.  I actually thought Dunn had a tighter handle.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

MCN, last year Dunn and Williams combined for

137 assists and 83 TOs
=1.65 A:TO

Smirh and Mathis combined for 
45 assists and 58 TO’s
=  .78 assist A:TO ratio with 92 LESS assists. 

I don’t know what else’s to say If you don’t think that looks like a step back in playmaking ability. 

And I’m sorry but as for what our guards coming in have shown, a junior who in three years has yet to shoot better than 38% from the field, yet to shoot 30% from three, yet to shoot 70% from the line and has 90 assists for his career has not shown to be a playmaker or a shotmaker. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have strengths that Dunn or Williams didnt. 

Mase, I think a lot depends on what roles Smith and Mathis were asked to play for their teams last year as opposed to what roles Dunn and Williams were asked to play here. Style of play comes into it also. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m just saying let’s wait and see what CMA will expect of these guys here and how they perform.
 

Agree Gene and not trying to over look that. But 7 seasons combined from them and have yet to really show it.

To break it down further Williams alone had 51 assists to 30 TO’s. More assists and fewer TOs than both of them combined. So yea I worry about replacing Dunn’s play making ability. You look at the best teams and they have multiple guys who can initiate the offense and are able to constantly put pressure on defenses by being a threat to score or play make. Relying on Posh to do the vast majority of that will wear him down. Remember he guards guys 80 feet from the hoop. It’s A LOT to ask.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Sorry Boo but Posh was our primary ball handler this year as he will be as long as he is on the team. Posh and Champ are.the only guys on our team who are not replaceable. 

Hmm, appears I’m in the minority on this.  I thought  Posh was terrific last year.  His defense was incredible and he was strong around the rim.  Nonetheless, the half court was not his strength last year and  it seemed to me that Dunn had significant ball handling responsibilities, moreso that Posh.  I actually thought Dunn had a tighter handle.

I’d say it was basically split in terms of who had the ball more, but to me it seemed as the season went on you could tell Posh was more so in control of the offense. Really close tho and you could be right.

 

[NCJohnnie]

In Stef Smith's last full season (they only played 14 games last year), he shot 45%, 42% from three and 75% from  the line and had 2.6 assists with 1.9 turnovers. Suspect he may be able to assume some ball handling/point responsibilities in small doses.  

 

[Amaseinyourface]

In Stef Smith's last full season (they only played 14 games last year), he shot 45%, 42% from three and 75% from  the line and had 2.6 assists with 1.9 turnovers. Suspect he may be able to assume some ball handling/point responsibilities in small doses.  

No question he can shoot it. But again last year in 13 American East games, as a senior he averaged 1.7 assists vs 2 TOs. He will have the ball in his hands so he’ll get the opportunity, I’m just of the belief 4 assists a game in the BE isn’t that easy to come by. I completely understand the complexity of taking player X’s stats vs player Y’s and seeing how they fit, I’m just pointing to strengths and weaknesses. I’ve always been partial to guys who share and pass the ball well. 

 

[JohnnyFan]

I think Stef Smith is a very good pick up and will give us a lot in the areas of shooting, experience, and leadership. I am also optimistic about Wheeler making a solid contribution.  I was not a fan of the Mathis addition, but he's a legit power conference athlete and I hope to be wrong about him.

The bottom line is we are one guard short of a finished roster.  My gut tells me (Alvarado or not) we will add a nice backcourt piece.  Then the comparisons between last year and this year can commence.