Seton Hall recap:http://www.bigeastboards.com/
@Seton Hall, Sun. Jan. 22, 12 Noon, FS1/570AM
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
SHU is an awful matchup for us pretty much across the board. There are better teams than SHU (like Butler) that we likely have a better chance of beating. Just the way it is.
The road is tough, especially for a young team. But with the exception of DePaul we have now had our doors blown off in the other 3 conference road games, with Georgetown and SHU entering the arena of genuine embarrassment. The 45-20 run by X in the last 12 minutes of the 1st half (45 points...in 12 minutes) could be similarly described.
When you couple that with the other games where we mostly haven't showed up at home or on neutral courts - ODU, Del St., LIU,and PSU - that's 7 times in 21 games. This is not inclusive of games where we generally played hard but not well (Nova, MSU, VCU). Just those where it looked like there wasn't a defined strategy, commitment to executing it, basic energy, etc. There's a big difference.
We know part of it is talent, part of it is youth, all of those things. But even with that the ability to bring effort and engagement consistently game to game has probably become my biggest concern. Having a total letdown 1 out of 3 games is not that.
On the plus side Bashir Ahmed has a chance to be a destroyer for us next year. As it is has provided incredible consistency even if it hasn't always been efficient - has been in double digits in all but one conference game and 16 of the last 19. Especially considering how well he rebounds, that kind of production doesn't grow on trees. But beyond that he seems to really want it, and if he works as hard this summer as I imagine he will, with the benefit of now knowing what it takes to really succeed at this level, we could see a big jump from him next year. Especially if he spends more time at his natural position. Physically overwhelming for most teams at the 3 and has a lot of the skillset. I expect his style may always be susceptible to being over aggressive, but there are worse things and with some refinement think he could be a top 10-15 scorer in the conference next year with higher efficiency to boot.
On the not so plus side in games like yesterday it seems easier to identify what players are unlikely to really be able to help us or at least likely need to be in greatly reduced roles. Without accounting for losing anyone, we probably have as many as 3-4 rotation spots next year. Assuming Simon and Clark are 2, we probably need 1-2 more guys who can contribute right away to take a big step forward next year.
The road is tough, especially for a young team. But with the exception of DePaul we have now had our doors blown off in the other 3 conference road games, with Georgetown and SHU entering the arena of genuine embarrassment. The 45-20 run by X in the last 12 minutes of the 1st half (45 points...in 12 minutes) could be similarly described.
When you couple that with the other games where we mostly haven't showed up at home or on neutral courts - ODU, Del St., LIU,and PSU - that's 7 times in 21 games. This is not inclusive of games where we generally played hard but not well (Nova, MSU, VCU). Just those where it looked like there wasn't a defined strategy, commitment to executing it, basic energy, etc. There's a big difference.
We know part of it is talent, part of it is youth, all of those things. But even with that the ability to bring effort and engagement consistently game to game has probably become my biggest concern. Having a total letdown 1 out of 3 games is not that.
On the plus side Bashir Ahmed has a chance to be a destroyer for us next year. As it is has provided incredible consistency even if it hasn't always been efficient - has been in double digits in all but one conference game and 16 of the last 19. Especially considering how well he rebounds, that kind of production doesn't grow on trees. But beyond that he seems to really want it, and if he works as hard this summer as I imagine he will, with the benefit of now knowing what it takes to really succeed at this level, we could see a big jump from him next year. Especially if he spends more time at his natural position. Physically overwhelming for most teams at the 3 and has a lot of the skillset. I expect his style may always be susceptible to being over aggressive, but there are worse things and with some refinement think he could be a top 10-15 scorer in the conference next year with higher efficiency to boot.
On the not so plus side in games like yesterday it seems easier to identify what players are unlikely to really be able to help us or at least likely need to be in greatly reduced roles. Without accounting for losing anyone, we probably have as many as 3-4 rotation spots next year. Assuming Simon and Clark are 2, we probably need 1-2 more guys who can contribute right away to take a big step forward next year.
we are sju
Active member
I think Elmore gave Mussini a new nickname. Every time he tried to guard someone Elmore called out the mismatch.
So basically everyone on SH was a mismatch for him.
Frederico Mismatch?
we are sju
Active member
Early in game Lovett threw nice bounce pass to Yakwe that would have led to a dunk if Yakwe didn't fumble it away. Seriously I hope no one ever gives Yakwe a baby to hold.
JackofVirginia
Active member
If you would tell me before the game we would hold Rodriquez to 11 points and Carrington to 10 I would bet on the Johnnies. unfortunately Powell hit wide open threes and Delgado destroyed us.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
You have just summarized the problem. It isn't easy to find bigs, especially talented bigs, quickly. I don't mind getting blown out to teams that are more experienced and much bigger and more physical than us. What is alarming is how little our guys fight for position on defense. I never saw a team switch on every pick, resulting in many mis-matches. No one fights through screens. Same deficiency under the boards. Don't even think it was Delgado that simply overpowered Yakwe while out-muscling him to rebound a missed SH free throw. Yakwe looked at the ref for help. Not the answer. Our guards are quick on offense, but have trouble keeping anyone in front of them on defense. Defense keeps teams in games. That explains the frequent blow outs. Make the other guy earn it. Not too much to ask.
Coach Mullin was right to call the team for selfishness and lack of hustle. I was watching Ellison on an attempted defensive rebound where he felt he was pushed or manhandled by a SH big. He made a disgusted face and did not go after the ball, which resulted in SH points. Then late 2nd half, he gets the ball, doesn't look for teammates, and tries to drive the middle to goose his personal stats. I would not cry if he transfers after this season.
I thought yesterday's game was potentially productive for our team.
No question at all that they did not come out for a road game with the desire, energy and effort needed to compete on the boards. So Delgado killed them. Obviously he is also a size mismatch for anybody we put on him, but that doesn't mean you can't compete.
In the second half you could see much better effort, and while Delgado still got his, it was a more representative effort. It's also the sort of effort that would win this game for St. John's in the home rematch.
The troubling part of the game for me was except one time when the ball moved around the perimeter (and we ended up missing a good shot, which happens), there was virtually no team play on the offensive end of the floor. Mullin wants people to take the first good shot, but if it isn't a GOOD shot then the ball has to move. Unfortunately yesterday it didn't.
I do think that the team learned a couple of lessons yesterday. Let's see if they can take those and make something useful out of them going forward. I would only be disspirited by the loss if it does not result in improvement.
No question at all that they did not come out for a road game with the desire, energy and effort needed to compete on the boards. So Delgado killed them. Obviously he is also a size mismatch for anybody we put on him, but that doesn't mean you can't compete.
In the second half you could see much better effort, and while Delgado still got his, it was a more representative effort. It's also the sort of effort that would win this game for St. John's in the home rematch.
The troubling part of the game for me was except one time when the ball moved around the perimeter (and we ended up missing a good shot, which happens), there was virtually no team play on the offensive end of the floor. Mullin wants people to take the first good shot, but if it isn't a GOOD shot then the ball has to move. Unfortunately yesterday it didn't.
I do think that the team learned a couple of lessons yesterday. Let's see if they can take those and make something useful out of them going forward. I would only be disspirited by the loss if it does not result in improvement.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
I'm not going to throw the blame on Ellison, or any single player. The problem is generally across the board. The team is young and still learning how to deal with adversity. Ponds won a city title in HS, and Bash played for a top notch JC program. These guys aren't use to losing. Coach has to keep them together until support comes along. That is all on Mullin. Losing would be more tolerable if the players saw a monster rebounder and defender ready to help next season. At this point, is that even possible?
we are sju
Active member
I know everyone wants ball movement, but how? Ball moving around the perimeter is pointless. Other teams know we are not going inside. And even when we do try to get the ball inside more often than not it results in a TO. When you are totally guard orientated tough to have good ball movement.
ball movement and team play was completely missing. I think they may need to just accept that the bigs are going to fumble a good percentage and keep doing it. I've seen Yakwe, Owens, Williams and Amar (and Bashir) all fumble nice interior passes where they are right under the basket and should otherwise be 2 pts. (Sima was even more frustrating because when he actually caught the ball, instead of going straight up, he wanted to do a dance routine every time which just gave the defense time to set) Maybe they keep fumbling in game and it helps. Some people respond to being embarrassed but either way live with it. The best that I've seen which has worked with both Yakwe and Owens is the pass to the free throw line where they dive to the hoop. Both are athletic enough to get it done. I don't think Williams or Amar are explosive enough. But I think we are 60+% on that for the season having run it less than 10 times.
I'd honestly rather see that then either one of those guys shooting jumpshot OR the one n done jumpshots from anyone else, with no passing. We are shooting abysmally in BE play so go for the high percentage shots make half of the non-fumbled balls and maybe draw some fouls in the process. Establish SOMETHING then that will give our guards better shots when the opponent isn't 100% secure in knowing that they can overplay our guards.
Glad you came away with some (potential) optimism. I sure didn't. The second half looked a little better at least in part to SH cruising. The offense is what people notice most but I don't see this team making any progress until they are totally committed to effort. That is mostly defense but also includes moving off the ball and rebounding on offense. It is mind boggling how our guys almost never box out EVER and guys like Ellison are so often just a spectator literally standing still watch the ball instead of going after it.
we are sju
Active member
Yes, tough to have good ball movement when you are guard oriented. Much easier if you are big man oriented.:huh:
You want to go inside back out. We can't even token get the ball inside. Results in us just throwing the ball around the perimeter. You can't even have the guards cut to the basket because they are all tiny and would get swallowed up. Not a difficult concept here.
Two separate questions. The easier one to answer is on defense. You find a big with a junkyard dog attitude who plays defense underneath with the belief that this space is mine. Anthony Glover, Donald Emanuel, and many, many others and I am intentionally starting at the low end in terms of offensive skills but not in terms of guts and attitude and competitiveness. The moment the other team is uncertain that their big may not be in the position he prefers, perimeter defense gets easier because there is hesitation.
The offense is a different story. I started college with the late Happy Hairston at NYU. As a freshmen he had a reliable baseline jumpshot from about fifteen feet. I don't know if he used it more than five times in his varsity career. He learned every back to the basket move (including a baby lefty hook) and then went on to a long pro career including championships. He subordinated his personal game to the needs of his team. Lavin got Sean Evans to learn a team role and went to the tournament.
Watching the SHU game the absence of anything from STJ to move Delgado out from under the basket and forcing him to work on defense was what I found most upsetting. The only big we have with back to the basket moves who can play a little bit through contact is Williams. The absence of this skillset from Alibegovic's offense is a discredit to him and the coaching staff. There is a sense of a team playing within their comfort level and not testing the changes they need to make that will make them more competitive. Maybe the capacity does not exist in the current roster but not being sure of that is very disconcerting.
The offense is a different story. I started college with the late Happy Hairston at NYU. As a freshmen he had a reliable baseline jumpshot from about fifteen feet. I don't know if he used it more than five times in his varsity career. He learned every back to the basket move (including a baby lefty hook) and then went on to a long pro career including championships. He subordinated his personal game to the needs of his team. Lavin got Sean Evans to learn a team role and went to the tournament.
Watching the SHU game the absence of anything from STJ to move Delgado out from under the basket and forcing him to work on defense was what I found most upsetting. The only big we have with back to the basket moves who can play a little bit through contact is Williams. The absence of this skillset from Alibegovic's offense is a discredit to him and the coaching staff. There is a sense of a team playing within their comfort level and not testing the changes they need to make that will make them more competitive. Maybe the capacity does not exist in the current roster but not being sure of that is very disconcerting.