Revamped Big East

alexd.

You are wrong.

The basketball only schools to force the split by not approving any new all sport members to the Big East.

All sport membership requires a vote of 75% of the members of the Big East which without the votes of the basketball only schools would prevent new schools.

Do you really believe that football "heavyweights" Yukon, Cincinnati, Louisville, rutgers, west virginia, and USF would remain in the conference if they could not add additional all sport members?

Can't wait to see a post Calhoun era basketball rivalry Yukon has with UCF or Yukon with ECU.

Thanks.

   
 
May I ask why Memphis is not being mentioned with more than a few weak sisters being mentioned prominantly. What am I missing they would be a great all sport addition. 
 
I invite any of the USF, UCF, SMU, Houston, or ECU cheerleaders on the
siteto explain how the interests of st.John's are served by coupling with
these basketball lightweights. Thanks.
And the ACC takes over the Garden in the spring.  
 
________________________________

rhoops1949

If you believe that USF, UCF, SMU, ECU, Air Force, Navy, and/ or Boise State will improve the quality of Big East Basketball Conference, or solidify the Big East's position at Madison Square Garden then you are wrong.
 
I invite any of the USF, UCF, SMU, Houston, or ECU cheerleaders on the
siteto explain how the interests of st.John's are served by coupling with
these basketball lightweights. Thanks.
And the ACC takes over the Garden in the spring.  
 
________________________________

rhoops1949

If you believe that USF, UCF, SMU, ECU, Air Force, Navy, and/ or Boise State will improve the quality of Big East Basketball Conference, or solidify the Big East's position at Madison Square Garden then you are wrong.
 

Chill out.
Most of the schools you've mentioned are FB only additions.
Air Force, Navy, and/ or Boise State 
 
 It's frustrating that every time a good proposal pops up, a different story appears the next day.

Pretty scary that posters on a fan board seem to have a better concept of what's better for the Big East. I personally am excited about adding as many football-only schools as possible, thereby saving basketball from the East Carolinas of the world.

Give me Army, Navy, Air Force, Boise St., and add Temple and Memphis for all sports, and I'm thrilled.

As for all the idiots at Big East headquarters rejecting Memphis' candidacy, how could they possible believe that Memphis football/basketball is a worse product than UCF basketball/football or East Carolina basketball/football?    
 
I invite any of the USF, UCF, SMU, Houston, or ECU cheerleaders on the
siteto explain how the interests of st.John's are served by coupling with
these basketball lightweights. Thanks.
And the ACC takes over the Garden in the spring.  
 
________________________________

rhoops1949

If you believe that USF, UCF, SMU, ECU, Air Force, Navy, and/ or Boise State will improve the quality of Big East Basketball Conference, or solidify the Big East's position at Madison Square Garden then you are wrong.
But keeping W.V. , Conn, and Louisville will keep us in MSG. Any of those 3 teams can win a national title. Whoever we take on for football that helps us keep the 14 teams we got, ok with me.  
 
I am amazed how gitty some on this site are over the prospect that
Central Florida, ECU, SMU and Houston may become members of
the Big East.

In my opinion St.John's interests interests are better served breaking
away with the Big East basketball schools and forming the CYO.

UCF, USF, ECU, SMU and Houston have sport teams that are irrelevant
within their own states much less the nation. Please call anyone you
know that lives in the state of Florida and asek them if they know anyone
that has UCF or USF as their favorite team. Everyone I know in Florida
cheers for Florida, Florida State, Miami, or SEC teams before they think
of USF or UCF. Likewise a business associate from Houston said they
did not know of a single person that has Houston as a favorite team or
even follows their scores.

The point is that the "CYO" league is not my first hope for St.John's but
I fear playing basketball lightweights USF, UCF, SMU, Houston, ECU and
others will water down the St.John's basketball brand more than a conference
including newbies Xavier, Butler and Dayton.

I invite any of the USF, UCF, SMU, Houston, or ECU cheerleaders on the
siteto explain how the interests of st.John's are served by coupling with
these basketball lightweights. Thanks.
 

It enables us to keep yukon, WV & L'ville.
It's that simple.
 

For years the ACC was a league with 4 outstanding basketball teams almost every season. Duke, Carolina, and then take your pick from amongst Maryland, Wake and whatever other southern school.

The Big East was a league with 8 good teams every year in the recent past and will stay that way for the next two years until Cuse and Pitt leave.

Basketball teams are easily built into national powers with outstanding recruiters and coaches. A Big East with St. John's (I am hoping as top dog in two years), Yukon, Lvile, ND, Marquette, Villanova, Georgetown, Temple, WV and rebuilding programs like Providence and Rutgers will have ZERO problems selling out MSG.....NONE, NADA!
Top-to-bottom, the Big East will still be stronger than the ACC.

On the football side, the Big East will be no weaker than the ACC with the teams it is looking to add and may eventually be a better draw nationally.

In the south, schools like ECU and UCF are fast rising football schools much the way Uconn started as a basketball school. The service academies would play Notre Dame every year drawing football viewers more than a game between Syracuse and Virginia or Duke and Wake ever would!

The Big East will reinvent itself again and let's not worry about the Big East tourney. It would sell out if the only ten schools were ND, Lville, Rutgers, SJ, Gtown, Seton Hall, Temple, Providence, Nova and Uconn!!! 
 
 It's frustrating that every time a good proposal pops up, a different story appears the next day.

Pretty scary that posters on a fan board seem to have a better concept of what's better for the Big East. I personally am excited about adding as many football-only schools as possible, thereby saving basketball from the East Carolinas of the world.

Give me Army, Navy, Air Force, Boise St., and add Temple and Memphis for all sports, and I'm thrilled.

As for all the idiots at Big East headquarters rejecting Memphis' candidacy, how could they possible believe that Memphis football/basketball is a worse product than UCF basketball/football or East Carolina basketball/football?    
 LJSA, sounds great, and thank you. Army doesn't like the pressure on their kids playing week in week out tough schedule. I would love to have them, but don't think they're coming. Come up with another team to get to 12.
 
 Xavier and Temple essentially neutralizes the loss. Syracuse a bigger loss than Pitt. Pitt has had "recent" success and has been a bust in the NCAA tourney.
 
 "The Big East will reinvent itself again and let's not worry about the Big East tourney. It would sell out if the only ten schools were ND, Lville, Rutgers, SJ, Gtown, Seton Hall, Temple, Providence, Nova and Uconn!!! "



Agree '72 this conference isn't done yet.
 
LJSA, sounds great, and thank you. Army doesn't like the pressure on their kids playing week in week out tough schedule. I would love to have them, but don't think they're coming. Come up with another team to get to 12.

1) I'd shoot for the moon and see if BYU wanted football-only. I'd love them for all sports, but travel would kill them. And Football only gets them in a BCS-bid league.

2) Tell Villanova to upgrade quick and they can have the spot.

3) If Boise St. and Air Force are considering football-only, I'd bet someone else from the WAC or Mountain West would as well. A team from out there would have minimal travel to reach both Boise and Air Force, and not too rough a trip to reach their division mates. Travel to three eastern division games a year wouldn't be too tough, especially since it might be a yearly 1/2 unbalanced split.
 
LJSA, sounds great, and thank you. Army doesn't like the pressure on their kids playing week in week out tough schedule. I would love to have them, but don't think they're coming. Come up with another team to get to 12.

1) I'd shoot for the moon and see if BYU wanted football-only. I'd love them for all sports, but travel would kill them. And Football only gets them in a BCS-bid league.

2) Tell Villanova to upgrade quick and they can have the spot.

3) If Boise St. and Air Force are considering football-only, I'd bet someone else from the WAC or Mountain West would as well. A team from out there would have minimal travel to reach both Boise and Air Force, and not too rough a trip to reach their division mates. Travel to three eastern division games a year wouldn't be too tough, especially since it might be a yearly 1/2 unbalanced split.
 

Villanova is NOT a realistic option on the football side. Aside from that, we want them on the bball only side. Let the football schools take quite a few football only schools. It makes sense. Theyre not a threat to join for all sports and split apart. In addition, even western schools can afford the cross country trips if it is only for one sport.

The two no-brainers for all sports IMO are Temple and Memphis. The football schools can add whichever football-onlies they want to keep the football league afloat. All sports members Temple and Memphis would easily replace Cuse and Pitt on the football side, and keep out beloved big east tournament at MSG alive and well...
 
Marcus, you're right on the money. Temple and Memphis we would be in very good shape. 
 
alexd.

You are wrong.

The basketball only schools to force the split by not approving any new all sport members to the Big East.All sport membership requires a vote of 75% of the members of the Big East which without the votes of the basketball only schools would prevent new schools.

Do you really believe that football "heavyweights" Yukon, Cincinnati, Louisville, rutgers, west virginia, and USF would remain in the conference if they could not add additional all sport members?

Can't wait to see a post Calhoun era basketball rivalry Yukon has with UCF or Yukon with ECU.

Thanks.

   
 

Let me know when you think this will actually happen.

A "Catholic league" sounds nice and all, but we all know the hoops schools need the exposure and TV $$ the large (football) schools bring. Even as far as hoops go, who has had 90% of the success in the past 20 years? Sorry to be so blunt. Thanks.
 
alexd.

You are wrong.

The basketball only schools to force the split by not approving any new all sport members to the Big East.All sport membership requires a vote of 75% of the members of the Big East which without the votes of the basketball only schools would prevent new schools.

Do you really believe that football "heavyweights" Yukon, Cincinnati, Louisville, rutgers, west virginia, and USF would remain in the conference if they could not add additional all sport members?

Can't wait to see a post Calhoun era basketball rivalry Yukon has with UCF or Yukon with ECU.

Thanks.

   
 

Let me know when you think this will actually happen.

A "Catholic league" sounds nice and all, but we all know the hoops schools need the exposure and TV $$ the large (football) schools bring. Even as far as hoops go, who has had 90% of the success in the past 20 years? Sorry to be so blunt. Thanks.
 

Alex, despite what you think the football schools need the bball-only schools for relevance much more than the bball schools need you guys. I think the desperation your president and AD are showing are evidence of that. Remind yourself Alex that Uconn football is one of the "leftovers" and NOT one of the big football programs. Even in a bowl year last year, Uconn lost a ton of money and couldn't fill the seats and had zero TV interest. Uconn football is a debacle.

The bball-only schools aren't losing anything more than the football schools. Actually, they have a lot less to lose IMO. The big east football schools only shot at relevance is grabbing a few more football schools, but truthfully a split from the bball schools would decimate your league.

Alex, you have to face the facts that Uconn and the rest of the unwanted football schools need the bball schools just to retain any chance of packaging a sports product to networks. That product NEEDS to include top notch basketball, because without a basketball power conference, the big east football schools will have little to sell.

The bball only schools are ok with adding a few more solid bball only schools and having a more than solid conference. Our basketball league would probably look a bit better than that of the football schools if there was a split to tell the truth.

The fact remains that both the football schools and the bball-only schools are best off together for the foreseeable future, combining adequate football but marketing top notch basketball. Combined, we are better off, because the football schools aren't doing any favors for the bball schools. You guys need us just as much for any semblance of relevance. Uconn football isn't relevant to any major conference right now. Why would it be more relevant by adding a bunch of crappy football schools and cutting off the bball programs that made gave Uconn a chance at relevance in the first place?   

Do you see the bball schools panicking right now? No.. Uconn is panicking. Cuse and Pitt were panicking but were saved by the good will of the ACC who's only goal was to torpedo big east football. BC wasn't in your corner on that one either. The bball schools are sitting idle and waiting to collect your 5 million should you want to walk the plank and swim hoping to reach landfall in another "big boy" conference. Uconn is on the brink of Calhoun's retirement and an empty football stadium, where prospects without this league working out looking a LOT bleaker than our doomsday Catholic league. We never will lose our football relevance nor our hopes of gainig any, without having a team. We'll keep playing our bball successfully like we have for 100+ years. To be blunt about it.
 
I think that Marinatto needs to go big or go home!! Build a big super conference to the point that if you get raided again you still have a conference and you don't have to go through this again. Bring in Army, Navy, Air Force and Boise St. for football only. Then add Memphis, Temple, SMU and Houston for all sports. 14 football schools and 18 basketball schools.  
 
alexd.

You are wrong.

The basketball only schools to force the split by not approving any new all sport members to the Big East.All sport membership requires a vote of 75% of the members of the Big East which without the votes of the basketball only schools would prevent new schools.

Do you really believe that football "heavyweights" Yukon, Cincinnati, Louisville, rutgers, west virginia, and USF would remain in the conference if they could not add additional all sport members?

Can't wait to see a post Calhoun era basketball rivalry Yukon has with UCF or Yukon with ECU.

Thanks.

   
 

Let me know when you think this will actually happen.

A "Catholic league" sounds nice and all, but we all know the hoops schools need the exposure and TV $$ the large (football) schools bring. Even as far as hoops go, who has had 90% of the success in the past 20 years? Sorry to be so blunt. Thanks.
 

The football schools have had more success because they are majority state schools and have had limitless state dollars since the Regan era to build their programs and facilities. Syracuse isn't a state school, but the state of NY paid for that dome they have up there. If they didn't have the state dollars fo that dome, where would they be?
 
 

If we come out of this with the only substantial Hoops addition being Temple I'm gonna puke. :sick:

Throw in Xavier and I won't miss Pitt or Cuse in the least.
 

It saves the conference. That's the bottom line here.

if you don't add football schools - and good ones - the conference is done. Finished. Kaput. Rutgers, UConn, Louisville, Cincy, WVU will all be gone. You will have a better A-10.

I get that we don't care about football. And I get that we don't really care about Rutgers or Cincy so much in basketball.

But the bottom line here is that if you don't have a football conference, you don't have a conference, period.

The next step in this evolution will be that the remaining conferences are going to have their own football tournament AND their own basketball tournament, and tell the NCAA to go sit on an egg and rotate.

Do you want to be in the "other" tournament with the A-10, CUSA, the MAAC, the NEC, and whoever else? Do you think anybody is going to care about a tournament without North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, etc etc etc?

So while what we WANT is a good basketball conference, the first step is saving the conference as a major conference. And to do that, you have to add teams that will satisfy your existing football/basketball schools and dissuade them from leaving.

If you add Boise, Navy, and Air Force, your football schools are likely not going anywhere (and at that point it might be for more reason than that nobody invited them to a better party). Those 3 schools not only replace what you lost, they substantially improve upon it. Temple's football program is a filler, you're taking them for basketball.

You don't have to play any of those schools in basketball, other than Temple.

Then you can go ask some basketball school without a football program (Butler?) if they want to come play in the Big East.

Moreover, by adding Boise and the academies, you improve your currently non-existent chances that when the day comes that ND has to join a football conference - and that day is going to come - that they will join yours.

Sometimes you gotta take the medicine. Doing what's necessary and saving the conference as a football conference first, then worrying about replacing the basketball programs, is what has to be done.

And as others have pointed out, maybe some programs that haven't been historically good will develop or another entry will be a nice basketball addition (Memphis, Houston, SMU are not Syracuse or Pitt, but they're not awful. UCF might develop into a pleasant surprise, too. Eastern Carolina, I have no defense for).

I also think that you have to look down the road as much as at the past. When Boeheim retires, Syracuse may fall and not get up for a long time. BC hasn't exactly made noise in that conference. Jamie Dixon might not stay at Pitt forever, and Pitt has been known to disappear for a decade at a time, too. What you're losing today, you might not miss tomorrow.

Yes, I know - another too-long LMF post.  
 
Eastern Carolina, I have no defense for.
 

You apparently hold them in such low regard that you didn't get their name right. :lol:

In the entire time I've followed college football and basketball, I remember them having one good basketball player and I think a decent quarterback, but I can't remember either of their names.
 
The next step in this evolution will be that the remaining conferences are going to have their own football tournament AND their own basketball tournament, and tell the NCAA to go sit on an egg and rotate.
 

The former could happen, the latter won't.

The appeal of the NCAA Tournament to the average person is the fact that small schools are going up against the powerhouses. It's the upsets or the potential for upsets that gets eyes glued to CBS on a Thursday afternoon in late March. Having a tournament with only four or five major conferences and you have nowhere near the attention, which means lower ratings, which means less dough. 
 
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