Revamped Big East

But, LJSA, we're all concerned about basketball, and what makes you think Louisville, West Virginia, and UConn will actually stick with the Big East? (I couldn't care less about Rutgers.) And in terms of basketball, what do the service academies and the likes of Boise State bring to the table? (Rhetorical question: the answer is nothing.)
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They aren't supposed to bring anything to the table for basketball. They are for football only.

Do you not think a basketball league consisting of Rutgers, Temple, Memphis, Louisville, West Virginia, Cincinnati, South Florida, and the eight Catholics would be a good basketball league? I think it's just fine, and it gets better if you invite Xavier and someone like Butler or Richmond for a three division 18-team league with 22 league games.

I think the current schools stick around if the Big East strikes quickly.
 
According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828
Click to expand...
 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 
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... However, for those of us who were around at the beginning of the BE I hate to inform you but Seton Hall was just terrible while CONNU aspired to get an NIT invite and Georgetown was but a few seasons removed from being a terrible bball program. Its fans fought tooth and nail against the hiring of a black high school coach to lead the program. We all know how that turned out.
All that to say the immediate future may look bleak for the bball programs but it could turn out alright over time depending upon who joins. Schools like Butler, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, Gonzaga, St. Mary's to name a few would keep the level of bball very high IMHO.
Click to expand...
 

Redmannorth, for the record, I was around long before the Big East came along (I became a fan when Leroy Ellis and Kevin Loughery were playing, and was a frosh when Looie was an assistant), so I'm well aware of how bad Seton Hall and UConn were when the conference formed. (And how I cringed at the thought of including them.) But that was then, and this now. Mainly because of TV coverage, the game has changed dramatically since then, and to "restart" or rebuild the Big East will not only be a tough process, it will also be a dubious one. (And who says Xavier, Butler, et al. are coming into the fold? And if they do, how many years before they come?) In the meantime, top-tier recruits will be looking to go elsewhere, and because the money is now huge, big-name and "hot" young head coaches will be lured away by football-rich, state teams in conferences that are flourishing. And given that I am an older fan, I sure don't relish the idea of having to wait another six or seven years -- like it took Seton Hall and UConn to get their legs -- for the revamped Big East, and for our own program especially, to get its legs back.   
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My comparison was to illustrate how certain terrible bball schools used the BE to become great. Perhaps that could happen once again with the news schools added. ... Lavin has shown that he wants a brutal out of conference schedule so there will be no shame in padding our in conference record. ... As for top tier recruits they are coming to SJU because of the great staff we have assembled. ...
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Redmannorth, with all due respect (and I do mean that; I've been reading your posts for many years), "perhaps that could happen" doesn't cut it for me. My patience has run out, especially after the regeneration we experienced this past year and the promising future that looked to be ours. As for the attraction of Coach Lavin and his staff, I'm wondering just how long this staff will be in place if the conference goes down the toilet, which is where it seems to be heading. Do you honestly think Lavin came here to coach in a second-tier conference? I don't, and I don't expect him to stick around for long if that's where we end up. Lavin may very well like the bright lights of New York and the storied history of St. John's, but he came here because those attractions were intricately tied with being a member of the best conference in the nation. It's been a key factor in recruiting this year's class (every recruit I've heard interviewed cites the Big East as a big reason he came here), and not having it to pitch to kids is a critical loss.
 
But, LJSA, we're all concerned about basketball, and what makes you think Louisville, West Virginia, and UConn will actually stick with the Big East? (I couldn't care less about Rutgers.) And in terms of basketball, what do the service academies and the likes of Boise State bring to the table? (Rhetorical question: the answer is nothing.)
Click to expand...
 

They aren't supposed to bring anything to the table for basketball. They are for football only.

Do you not think a basketball league consisting of Rutgers, Temple, Memphis, Louisville, West Virginia, Cincinnati, South Florida, and the eight Catholics would be a good basketball league? I think it's just fine, and it gets better if you invite Xavier and someone like Butler or Richmond for a three division 18-team league with 22 league games.

I think the current schools stick around if the Big East strikes quickly.
Click to expand...
 

"If it gets better ... if you invited Xavier and someone like Butler or Richmond ... if the current schools stick around ... if the Big East strikes quickly."

That's an awful lot of ifs, LJSA ... and most of them are ifs with a capital "I."

I realize I'm sounding like the voice of doom, but after seeing so much promise last season and heading into this season, I'm just bummed out and everything I'm hearing or reading sounds like grasping at straws. 
 
(Apologies to all for posting the same message twice. It took up a lot of space, so I deleted this duplicate cop of it.)
 
According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828
Click to expand...
 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 
Click to expand...
 

... However, for those of us who were around at the beginning of the BE I hate to inform you but Seton Hall was just terrible while CONNU aspired to get an NIT invite and Georgetown was but a few seasons removed from being a terrible bball program. Its fans fought tooth and nail against the hiring of a black high school coach to lead the program. We all know how that turned out.
All that to say the immediate future may look bleak for the bball programs but it could turn out alright over time depending upon who joins. Schools like Butler, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, Gonzaga, St. Mary's to name a few would keep the level of bball very high IMHO.
Click to expand...
 

Redmannorth, for the record, I was around long before the Big East came along (I became a fan when Leroy Ellis and Kevin Loughery were playing, and was a frosh when Looie was an assistant), so I'm well aware of how bad Seton Hall and UConn were when the conference formed. (And how I cringed at the thought of including them.) But that was then, and this now. Mainly because of TV coverage, the game has changed dramatically since then, and to "restart" or rebuild the Big East will not only be a tough process, it will also be a dubious one. (And who says Xavier, Butler, et al. are coming into the fold? And if they do, how many years before they come?) In the meantime, top-tier recruits will be looking to go elsewhere, and because the money is now huge, big-name and "hot" young head coaches will be lured away by football-rich, state teams in conferences that are flourishing. And given that I am an older fan, I sure don't relish the idea of having to wait another six or seven years -- like it took Seton Hall and UConn to get their legs -- for the revamped Big East, and for our own program especially, to get its legs back.   
Click to expand...
 

My comparison was to illustrate how certain terrible bball schools used the BE to become great. Perhaps that could happen once again with the news schools added. ... Lavin has shown that he wants a brutal out of conference schedule so there will be no shame in padding our in conference record. ... As for top tier recruits they are coming to SJU because of the great staff we have assembled. ...
Click to expand...

Redmannorth, with all due respect (and I do mean that; I've been reading your posts for many years), "perhaps that could happen" doesn't cut it for me. My patience has run out, especially after the regeneration we experienced this past year and the promising future that looked to be ours. As for the attraction of Coach Lavin and his staff, I'm wondering just how long this staff will be in place if the conference goes down the toilet, which is where it seems to be heading. Do you honestly think Lavin came here to coach in a second-tier conference? I don't, and I don't expect him to stick around for long if that's where we end up. Lavin may very well like the bright lights of New York and the storied history of St. John's, but he came here because those attractions were intricately tied with being a member of the best conference in the nation. It's been a key factor in recruiting this year's class (every recruit I've heard interviewed cites the Big East as a big reason why he came here), and not having it to pitch to kids is a critical loss.
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I will give you a couple of examples of what outstanding recruiters who are decent coaches can do for programs not in any super-duper conference.

John Calipari, ovef the course of ten years, turned Memphis into a national contender. He got players even though the conference sucked.

Gonzaga is a small Jesuit school in Spokane. Over the past ten years I do not think I have to remind you of the national prominence of their BB program.

One of the most academically challenging colleges in America, little Davidson, has had much success on the hardwood because of a coach named Bob McKillop.....and before him Lefty Dreisel made them a nationally ranked team.

St. John's, in the Big East, post Syracuse, is still in a conference with the likes of Notre Dame, Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, UWV, Louisville and Uconn!!! These are SEVEN schools that perennially are ranked in the top 25!!! SJU is located in New York City, not Spokane, Memphis or Davidson!! Why become another St. John's hater when you could be looking at all the positives? Please don't become another OTIS or JerseyShoreJohnny here and look for any opportunity to emphasize a negative about SJ when there are many many positives!
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 Frankly, if it makes the football schools happy by adding Air Force, Army and Navy for football only, then who cares? Hey can have em. I don't think it hurts the bball side in any way really.

Nobody said we needed to replace Cuse and Pitt in an overcrowded bball league. IMO, adding Temple and Memphis would do great job of replcing those guys, on both sides. Both have football programs that have reasonable success and strong basketball programs. Temple has an underrated bball history actually. Temple is actually AHEAD of SJU in All Time Winningest programs at #6 overall. Cuse is #5 and SJU # 7. That should say how good of a bball history they have, their football is on par and probably better then Cuse right now. Memphis has fantastic recent bball history. Memphis also has good football support, a 60k+ seat stadium and could really pick up steam in a better conference IMO, both those schools would be prime candidates. I like the idea of Houston as well, with a nice basketball pedigree. 

Personally, I don't know why Temple and Memphis weren't already added considering what they offer on both the football and bball sides. They're talking about Boise State? Idaho football market? Really?
 
 The below linked news article from Dick Weiss provides a realistic outline for what may occur with the BEast.

Hoops Weiss article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/c...-10-10_big_easts_rescue_mission.html?r=sports 
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Hoops is a Temple alum and has been very vocal about admitting Temple in all sports and he is 100% correct! Only Villanova has a problem with that since they would become the #2 Big East team in Philly, considering they are located in a suburb of the city!
The football schools want "stable" national partners that would attract TV money and the academies have that type of appeal. They and Notre Dame travel across the country to play most of their games already and one of the goals discussed by the BE football members is to be viewed as America's football conference with the service academies. They just may pull it off!
If all the current schools stay it would be safe to say that the ACC raid will be neutralized and with Temple, St. John's, Villanova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Uconn, Marquette, Louisville, Cincy and Providence-----the Big East would, in effect, from top to bottom, still be the # 1 basketball conference after 2014 and beyond----- especially after rat-faced coach K and Jimmy B retire!!!
 
 The below linked news article from Dick Weiss provides a realistic outline for what may occur with the BEast.

Hoops Weiss article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/c...-10-10_big_easts_rescue_mission.html?r=sports 
Click to expand...
 

Hoops is a Temple alum and has been very vocal about admitting Temple in all sports and he is 100% correct! Only Villanova has a problem with that since they would become the #2 Big East team in Philly, considering they are located in a suburb of the city!
The football schools want "stable" national partners that would attract TV money and the academies have that type of appeal. They and Notre Dame travel across the country to play most of their games already and one of the goals discussed by the BE football members is to be viewed as America's football conference with the service academies. They just may pull it off!
If all the current schools stay it would be safe to say that the ACC raid will be neutralized and with Temple, St. John's, Villanova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Uconn, Marquette, Louisville, Cincy and Providence-----the Big East would, in effect, from top to bottom, still be the # 1 basketball conference after 2014 and beyond----- especially after rat-faced coach K and Jimmy B retire!!!
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100% agree. It would certainly bolster both the football and bball sides and create a solid and marketable bball league and a viable football league. The league could even entertain adding Houston and/or Memphis for both sports at a later date. Big east has to move fast though and set a higher exit fee as well as bring those schools into the fold. Also gotta hope that Missou stays in Big 12 and they close up shop for a little bit.
 
I would sign for this right now:

Football

1 Air Force
2 Army
3 Boise
4 Cincinnati
5 Louisville
6 Memphis
7 Navy
8 Rutgers
9 Temple
10 UConn
11 USF
12 West Virginia

To break it into east/west conferences, try this:

East:
Army, Memphis, Navy, Rutgers, Temple, UConn,

West:
Air Force, Boise, Cincy, Louisville, USF, WVU

It would be better to put Air Force in the East and Memphis in the West to stay consistent with the basketball conferences (below), but I don't see how that works, unless Air Force prefers to be with the other 2 service academies.

Basketball:

1 Cincinnati
2 DePaul
3 Georgetown
4 Lousiville
5 Marquette
6 Memphis
7 Notre Dame
8 Providence
9 Rutgers
10 SJU
11 SHU
12 Temple
13 Uconn
14 USF
15 Villanova
16 West Virginia

The basketball league does break into conferences pretty well:

East: Georgetown, Providence, Rutgers, SJU, SHU, Temple, UConn, Villanova
West: Cincy, DePaul, Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, ND, USF, WVU

It's a drop-off in basketball, but not an awful one. The BE would still be better overall than the ACC in basketball, and would have more major markets covered. Also, (not that I care one bit about college football), it seems like a decent football conference which should hopefully satisfy UConn and Rutgers. It also forges a relationship between the more or less honorable Catholic schools and the service academies, which should be stable, and it builds a stronger tie between ND and the league.

Even better, all of those schools seem to be available and interested in playing in the Big East.

Marinatto should be on the phone 24/7 getting this done.   
 
I would sign for this right now:

Football

1 Air Force
2 Army
3 Boise
4 Cincinnati
5 Louisville
6 Memphis
7 Navy
8 Rutgers
9 Temple
10 UConn
11 USF
12 West Virginia

It doesn't break down neatly into East/West divisions - it would need 2 more west schools to do that.

Basketball:

1 Cincinnati
2 DePaul
3 Georgetown
4 Lousiville
5 Marquette
6 Memphis
7 Notre Dame
8 Providence
9 Rutgers
10 SJU
11 SHU
12 Temple
13 Uconn
14 USF
15 Villanova
16 West Virginia

It's a drop-off in basketball, but not an awful one. The BE would still be better overall than the ACC in basketball, and would have more major markets covered. Also, (not that I care one bit about college football), it seems like a decent football conference which should hopefully satisfy UConn and Rutgers. It also forges a relationship between the more or less honorable Catholic schools and the service academies, which should be stable, and it builds a stronger tie between ND and the league.

Even better, all of those schools seem to be available and interested in playing in the Big East.

Marinatto should be on the phone 24/7 getting this done.  
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I had the same teams in a previous post but I added Houston and SMU. That gives you the neat East/West breakdown and you make it 14 football schools and 18 for basketball. it works and it's still a great basketball league and a good enough football league to probably hold on to a bcs a bid. It also puts the Big East in Texas for recruiting purposes with regard to football. Marinatto needs to go all out here and put together a a big super conference like this and up the exit fee. He needs to go for broke. I hear rumors about just adding the service acadamies. That's not enough. But Marinatto hasn't proved that he can do anything right.
 
... St. John's, in the Big East, post Syracuse, is still in a conference with the likes of Notre Dame, Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, UWV, Louisville and Uconn!!! These are SEVEN schools that perennially are ranked in the top 25!!! SJU is located in New York City, not Spokane, Memphis or Davidson!! Why become another St. John's hater when you could be looking at all the positives? Please don't become another OTIS or JerseyShoreJohnny here and look for any opportunity to emphasize a negative about SJ when there are many many positives!
Click to expand...

Rest assured I will never become "a St. John's hater." It's just that because -- like so many others here and on other St. John's boards -- I've felt so passionately about the program for so long that I'm despondent over what's unfolded these few weeks and the uncertainty of the future. Besides, why would I hate St. John's when it bears zero blame in this mess? At this point, despite some potential negative consequences, I think I prefer being in a basketball-only conference (definitely with a number of nonsectarian schools included with the Catholic core group), and forget about being associated with an unstable football conference with its South Florida, Army, Navy, Houston, and whoever else.  
 
... St. John's, in the Big East, post Syracuse, is still in a conference with the likes of Notre Dame, Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, UWV, Louisville and Uconn!!! These are SEVEN schools that perennially are ranked in the top 25!!! SJU is located in New York City, not Spokane, Memphis or Davidson!! Why become another St. John's hater when you could be looking at all the positives? Please don't become another OTIS or JerseyShoreJohnny here and look for any opportunity to emphasize a negative about SJ when there are many many positives!
Click to expand...

Rest assured I will never become "a St. John's hater." It's just that because -- like so many others here and on other St. John's boards -- I've felt so passionately about the program for so long that I'm despondent over what's unfolded these few weeks and the uncertainty of the future. Besides, why would I hate St. John's when it bears zero blame in this mess? At this point, despite some potential negative consequences, I think I prefer being in a basketball-only conference (definitely with a number of nonsectarian schools included with the Catholic core group), and forget about being associated with an unstable football conference with its South Florida, Army, Navy, Houston, and whoever else.  
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While a noble thought, without football the TV dollars do not add up. It could mean the difference between $3 million per school and $13 million. That $10 million dollar difference pays for all the non-revenue sports. The fact that Stanford, Berkley, UCLA, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Duke, Michigan, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, all play football should tell you that schools will always admit students well below their academic standards to play this sport. The Big East needs to be a part of that cultural sports phenomenon that only exists in America, for better or worse.
 
 The Big East will consider adding six more football-playing schools to get to 12 members in the wake of three departures in the last month, the league said in a statement Monday.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7084162/big-east-consider-adding-6-football-schools
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Army, Navy, Air Force, Temple, Memphis are fine.
The others are not, unless they're only playing football in which event I don't care. 

And the real question is whether that move satisfies the remaining football schools enough that they agree to stay (which means they would have to vote for an increased exit fee).

I don't follow college football - are the service academies a big draw for that?
 
I would sign for this right now:

Football

1 Air Force
2 Army
3 Boise
4 Cincinnati
5 Louisville
6 Memphis
7 Navy
8 Rutgers
9 Temple
10 UConn
11 USF
12 West Virginia

To break it into east/west conferences, try this:

East:
Army, Memphis, Navy, Rutgers, Temple, UConn,

West:
Air Force, Boise, Cincy, Louisville, USF, WVU

It would be better to put Air Force in the East and Memphis in the West to stay consistent with the basketball conferences (below), but I don't see how that works, unless Air Force prefers to be with the other 2 service academies.

Basketball:

1 Cincinnati
2 DePaul
3 Georgetown
4 Lousiville
5 Marquette
6 Memphis
7 Notre Dame
8 Providence
9 Rutgers
10 SJU
11 SHU
12 Temple
13 Uconn
14 USF
15 Villanova
16 West Virginia

The basketball league does break into conferences pretty well:

East: Georgetown, Providence, Rutgers, SJU, SHU, Temple, UConn, Villanova
West: Cincy, DePaul, Louisville, Marquette, Memphis, ND, USF, WVU

It's a drop-off in basketball, but not an awful one. The BE would still be better overall than the ACC in basketball, and would have more major markets covered. Also, (not that I care one bit about college football), it seems like a decent football conference which should hopefully satisfy UConn and Rutgers. It also forges a relationship between the more or less honorable Catholic schools and the service academies, which should be stable, and it builds a stronger tie between ND and the league.

Even better, all of those schools seem to be available and interested in playing in the Big East.

Marinatto should be on the phone 24/7 getting this done.   
Click to expand...
 



This should be sent off to Marinatto immediately, I think this would make a very interesting conference.
 
I would also target a western expansion and make an east and west.

This would be my plan:

Football only additions:

1. Air Force
2. Navy
3. Villanova (bring up)
4. UCF/Nevada/Tulane/SDSU/Army (in that order)

All sport additions:

1. Boise State
2. BYU
3. Temple
4. Houston
5. SMU
6. Memphis

It would divide into this:

East

1. Temple
2. Villanova
3. Memphis
4. Navy
5. Rutgers
6. UConn
7. USF
8. West Virginia

West:

1. Air Force
2. Boise State
3. Cincinnati
4. Louisville
5. SMU
6. BYU
7. UCF/Nevada/Tulane/SDSU/Army
8. Houston


Basketball:

1. Boise State
2. BYU
3. Cincinnati
4. DePaul
5. Georgetown
6. Houston
7. Lousiville
8. Marquette
9. Memphis
10. Notre Dame
11. Providence
12. Rutgers
13. SJU
14. SHU
15. SMU
16. Temple
17. UConn
18. USF
19. Villanova
20. West Virginia

East:
Georgetown
Memphis
Providence
Rutgers
SJU
SHU
Temple
UConn
Villanova
WVU

West:
Boise State
BYU
Cincinnati
DePaul
Louisville
Marquette
Notre Dame
SMU
Houston
USF

This would not only stop the bleeding but I feel make the Big East stronger than it was. 
 
Richard:
Boise offers nothing but football. I'd never want to see them as a full member, especially if they are willing to go football only. Plus, travel would be too tough for them for every sport.
 
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