Revamped Big East

[otis]

 OK throw in Temple or anyother school that is willing to have their FBS forego membership in a BCS Conference.

Include UMass or Charolette also if they are willing to reverse their respective moves to FBS football or relegate their football programs to non BCS play.

The point is that given the current state of facts it is in my opinion in the best interest of St.John's to avoid coupling with schools with dreg basketball programs merely to serve the interests of football schools all while Yukon, rutgers, cincinnati, and louisville refuse to commit to long term stability by way of a higher exit fee and use efforts to abandon the Conference. 

 

[MainMan]

It's still worth taking a chance on Temple or UMass even if they have big time football aspirations.  

 

[NYCRedmen]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 

[redken]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 

 

[tom in salem]

 Air Force preparing to join Big East Conference

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/10/air_force_preparing_to_join_bi.html

 

[NYCRedmen]

I think we are only adding the service academies with the remaining football schools. If UConn, Louisville, etc leave I don't think we will ever see the service academies. 

 

[redmannorth]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 

 

There is no doubt Syracuse and Pitt are huge losses which cannot be replaced on a comparable level in basketball no matter how you cut it unless schools like Butler and Xavier sign on immediately. However, for those of us who were around at the beginning of the BE I hate to inform you but Seton Hall was just terrible while CONNU aspired to get an NIT invite and Georgetown was but a few seasons removed from being a terrible bball program. Its fans fought tooth and nail against the hiring of a black high school coach to lead the program. We all know how that turned out.
All that to say the immediate future may look bleak for the bball programs but it could turn out alright over time depending upon who joins. Schools like Butler, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, Gonzaga, St. Mary's to name a few would keep the level of bball very high IMHO.

 

[Class of 72]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 

 

There is no doubt Syracuse and Pitt are huge losses which cannot be replaced on a comparable level in basketball no matter how you cut it unless schools like Butler and Xavier sign on immediately. However, for those of us who were around at the beginning of the BE I hate to inform you but Seton Hall was just terrible while CONNU aspired to get an NIT invite and Georgetown was but a few seasons removed from being a terrible bball program. Its fans fought tooth and nail against the hiring of a black high school coach to lead the program. We all know how that turned out.
All that to say the immediate future may look bleak for the bball programs but it could turn out alright over time depending upon who joins. Schools like Butler, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, Gonzaga, St. Mary's to name a few would keep the level of bball very high IMHO.

 

Seton Hall and Uconn are great examples! They joined a basketball conference but were below-average BB schools. When Rutgers joined I had the same opinion of their BB program. Of course Uconn gets a football Stadium built and they think they are the next Penn State. Rutgers has one good season and think they belong in the Big Ten......BUT would settle for the ACC!! Their arrogance annoys the krap out of me!!!

Which brings me back to new schools being considered for BE membership. On the football side the BE did not lose much in the departure of Cuse and Pitt. That was a basketball move on the part of the ACC as most people now realize. The closest the BE will come to replacing them in terms of BB star-power and potential are Temple and Memphis. Both play football and BB and that brings the conference back to 16 for basketball and 8 for football. I think the BE wants to go to 12 for football and will add the service academies only if SMU, Houston and UCF turn down offers. It all seems to depend on Missouri and whether the Big East gets firm commitments from Loisville and West Virginia. IMO, NOBODY wants Uconn or Rutgers for football and I think the last couple of weeks they have come to that realization, therefore the Uconn president is all of a sudden warmer to "staying" in the BE.

Now, comes the hardest part-----raising the exit fee while keeping the 27 month departure period. Schools that are firmly committed to the future of the BE will approve it. But, like a mafia sit-down, it will also show those you cannot trust! Those should be given the offer to buy out by 2012 and waive the 27 month, even if they do not have a conference to go to!

 

[tom in salem]

 The first target was Syracuse, which had been on the original ACC expansion list eight years ago. The Orangemen, like BC, were disappointed when they didn’t make the final cut, passed over for Virginia Tech and Miami.

Under coach Jim Boeheim, Syracuse was clearly one of the elite basketball teams in the country and would boost the ACC’s stature in that sport.

The second target was Connecticut, which was part of the Northeast footprint the ACC wanted, and was coming off the daily double of a BCS bid in football and a championship in men’s basketball (the third for Jim Calhoun).

In addition, the women’s basketball program under Geno Auriemma had established itself as the most dominant in the sport over the past 15 years.

With growing instability in the Big East, both schools were bound to accept any offers.

While Syracuse presented no problem, UConn did - to BC, which was still fuming over what it perceived to be vitriolic comments made when BC was finally invited to join the ACC and started competing in 2005. UConn and Pittsburgh filed a lawsuit against BC, and Calhoun made comments about never playing BC again.

DeFilippo does not deny that BC opposed the inclusion of UConn.

“We didn’t want them in,’’ he said. “It was a matter of turf. We wanted to be the New England team.’’

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2011/10/09/power-move-acc/eoEsrFHtvEBZD6Y59nFxGM/story.xml#

 

[LJSA]

If everyone still here but looking to cheat on the Big East somehow stays, and we manage to lure Air Force, Army, Navy, and Temple, I'd love to see Villanova bump up their program so we don't have to endure two crappy schools for the sake of football. My personal preference for the last spot then would be Memphis or Tulane, but I guess if we only have to take one of Houston/UCF/SMU I guess I'd be happy.

16-team conference for basketball, and not badly diluted.

 

[jrhoops1949]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 Great news if it happens. Brings dignity, and teams that carry national interest. N.Dame play them all regular. I think it saves the BE and makes it unique.

 

[Class of 72]

 The first target was Syracuse, which had been on the original ACC expansion list eight years ago. The Orangemen, like BC, were disappointed when they didn’t make the final cut, passed over for Virginia Tech and Miami.

Under coach Jim Boeheim, Syracuse was clearly one of the elite basketball teams in the country and would boost the ACC’s stature in that sport.

The second target was Connecticut, which was part of the Northeast footprint the ACC wanted, and was coming off the daily double of a BCS bid in football and a championship in men’s basketball (the third for Jim Calhoun).

In addition, the women’s basketball program under Geno Auriemma had established itself as the most dominant in the sport over the past 15 years.

With growing instability in the Big East, both schools were bound to accept any offers.

While Syracuse presented no problem, UConn did - to BC, which was still fuming over what it perceived to be vitriolic comments made when BC was finally invited to join the ACC and started competing in 2005. UConn and Pittsburgh filed a lawsuit against BC, and Calhoun made comments about never playing BC again.

DeFilippo does not deny that BC opposed the inclusion of UConn.

“We didn’t want them in,’’ he said. “It was a matter of turf. We wanted to be the New England team.’’

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2011/10/09/power-move-acc/eoEsrFHtvEBZD6Y59nFxGM/story.xml#

 

The Globe article finally puts to rest the "motive" of the ACC in raiding the Big East for Syracuse and Pitt! ------Basketball jealousy! Of course when Boeheim retires the vision of basketball supremacy may backfire just as it did with Boston College in football.
The best part of the plot was BC's vote against Uconn! The words of that arrogant POS Calhoun came back to haunt Uconn! Like Syracuse, once Jimmy the Lip retires or croaks, whichever comes first, Uconn's basketball glory days will be over! Welcome to Conference USA Uconn OR just shut the frock up and play BE ball! It also goes to the heart of why Uconn's president's sudden interest in the future of the Big East------rejection by the ACC and only the weaker ConfUSA as an option.
It is also interesting how there is no mention of the New Jersey State University!! Talk about an non-factor!

I think the only other BE possible departures at this point are Louisville (Pitino wants to stay in the BE and visit his NY properties more often) and West Virginia (that will lose its NY area recruiting if it departs).

Trust me, the sneaks at Uconn, Rutgers and Villanova are sweating it right now because the 27 month window just closed a bit more and it becomes logical that if you are going to be bound to a conference and TV money at least until 2015, you better start playing ball with the catholic basketball schools or GET OUT now!

 

[redken]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 

 

... However, for those of us who were around at the beginning of the BE I hate to inform you but Seton Hall was just terrible while CONNU aspired to get an NIT invite and Georgetown was but a few seasons removed from being a terrible bball program. Its fans fought tooth and nail against the hiring of a black high school coach to lead the program. We all know how that turned out.
All that to say the immediate future may look bleak for the bball programs but it could turn out alright over time depending upon who joins. Schools like Butler, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, Gonzaga, St. Mary's to name a few would keep the level of bball very high IMHO.

 

Redmannorth, for the record, I was around long before the Big East came along (I became a fan when Leroy Ellis and Kevin Loughery were playing, and was a frosh when Looie was an assistant), so I'm well aware of how bad Seton Hall and UConn were when the conference formed. (And how I cringed at the thought of including them.) But that was then, and this now. Mainly because of TV coverage, the game has changed dramatically since then, and to "restart" or rebuild the Big East will not only be a tough process, it will also be a dubious one. (And who says Xavier, Butler, et al. are coming into the fold? And if they do, how many years before they come?) In the meantime, top-tier recruits will be looking to go elsewhere, and because the money is now huge, big-name and "hot" young head coaches will be lured away by football-rich, state teams in conferences that are flourishing. And given that I am an older fan, I sure don't relish the idea of having to wait another six or seven years -- like it took Seton Hall and UConn to get their legs -- for the revamped Big East, and for our own program especially, to get its legs back.   

 

[tom in salem]

 http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_east_ready.html

A source in the Big East told the Newark-Star Ledger that the inclusion of Boise "had been discussed.''
The key for Boise and for Air Force would be to find a place for the other sports besides football. One place could very well be the Western Athletic Conference. "We've had discussions with Air Force about joining in all sports but football,'' said WAC commissioner Karl Benson this afternoon. "And we would certainly be willing to talk to Boise State about the same arrangement.

 

[alexd.]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 

 

There is no doubt Syracuse and Pitt are huge losses which cannot be replaced on a comparable level in basketball no matter how you cut it unless schools like Butler and Xavier sign on immediately. However, for those of us who were around at the beginning of the BE I hate to inform you but Seton Hall was just terrible while CONNU aspired to get an NIT invite and Georgetown was but a few seasons removed from being a terrible bball program. Its fans fought tooth and nail against the hiring of a black high school coach to lead the program. We all know how that turned out.
All that to say the immediate future may look bleak for the bball programs but it could turn out alright over time depending upon who joins. Schools like Butler, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, Gonzaga, St. Mary's to name a few would keep the level of bball very high IMHO.

 

Seton Hall and Uconn are great examples! They joined a basketball conference but were below-average BB schools. When Rutgers joined I had the same opinion of their BB program. Of course Uconn gets a football Stadium built and they think they are the next Penn State. Rutgers has one good season and think they belong in the Big Ten......BUT would settle for the ACC!! Their arrogance annoys the krap out of me!!!

Which brings me back to new schools being considered for BE membership. On the football side the BE did not lose much in the departure of Cuse and Pitt. That was a basketball move on the part of the ACC as most people now realize. The closest the BE will come to replacing them in terms of BB star-power and potential are Temple and Memphis. Both play football and BB and that brings the conference back to 16 for basketball and 8 for football. I think the BE wants to go to 12 for football and will add the service academies only if SMU, Houston and UCF turn down offers. It all seems to depend on Missouri and whether the Big East gets firm commitments from Loisville and West Virginia. IMO, NOBODY wants Uconn or Rutgers for football and I think the last couple of weeks they have come to that realization, therefore the Uconn president is all of a sudden warmer to "staying" in the BE.

Now, comes the hardest part-----raising the exit fee while keeping the 27 month departure period. Schools that are firmly committed to the future of the BE will approve it. But, like a mafia sit-down, it will also show those you cannot trust! Those should be given the offer to buy out by 2012 and waive the 27 month, even if they do not have a conference to go to!

 

According to today's Boston Globe, the ACC was looking at SU and UCONN as the invitees until BC stepped in.


http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-football/hc-uconn-bc-acc-1010-20111010-7,0,7775570.story

 

[redmannorth]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 

 

... However, for those of us who were around at the beginning of the BE I hate to inform you but Seton Hall was just terrible while CONNU aspired to get an NIT invite and Georgetown was but a few seasons removed from being a terrible bball program. Its fans fought tooth and nail against the hiring of a black high school coach to lead the program. We all know how that turned out.
All that to say the immediate future may look bleak for the bball programs but it could turn out alright over time depending upon who joins. Schools like Butler, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, Gonzaga, St. Mary's to name a few would keep the level of bball very high IMHO.

 

Redmannorth, for the record, I was around long before the Big East came along (I became a fan when Leroy Ellis and Kevin Loughery were playing, and was a frosh when Looie was an assistant), so I'm well aware of how bad Seton Hall and UConn were when the conference formed. (And how I cringed at the thought of including them.) But that was then, and this now. Mainly because of TV coverage, the game has changed dramatically since then, and to "restart" or rebuild the Big East will not only be a tough process, it will also be a dubious one. (And who says Xavier, Butler, et al. are coming into the fold? And if they do, how many years before they come?) In the meantime, top-tier recruits will be looking to go elsewhere, and because the money is now huge, big-name and "hot" young head coaches will be lured away by football-rich, state teams in conferences that are flourishing. And given that I am an older fan, I sure don't relish the idea of having to wait another six or seven years -- like it took Seton Hall and UConn to get their legs -- for the revamped Big East, and for our own program especially, to get its legs back.   

 

My comparison was to illustrate how certain terrible bball schools used the BE to become great. Perhaps that could happen once again with the news schools added. In the interim if the 4 academies are added it increases our win total just as it did playing CONNU and Seton Hall in the early 80s. Lavin has shown that he wants a brutal out of conference schedule so there will be no shame in padding our in conference record. And yes I have no clue if Butler and Xavier will join but any 2 of the 6 schools I named would be very good additions versus the 2 great bball schools we just lost. Temple has an excellent history probably better than Pitt and maybe the inclusion into the BE would allow them to recruit a different level of player. As for top tier recruits they are coming to SJU because of the great staff we have assembled. They correctly believe this staff will take them to the next level. Just look at last years team, I believe 5 players will be playing for $$$$$ this winter, no small accomplishment.
Point being with the schedule we have going forward recruits will get ample exposure just in the out of conference games - Arizona, Kentucky, Detroit, UCLA, Duke plus the not as strong BE games. We are in far from terrible shape.
If this staff can recruit 2 top 100 players on an annual basis, which I believe they can do with their eyes closed, we will be a perennial top 25 program. If they can recruit 3 top 100 players on an annual basis, which I believe they can do, we will be a consistent top 10 program.
This is a bump in the road which we shall overcome.

 

[LJSA]

Finally some good ideas sprouting from the Big East. Boise football is like Gonzaga basketball in that they are a lot of people's second favorite team.

Boise
Air Force
Army
Navy
Rutgers
UConn
Louisville
USF
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Temple
?

Looks like an OK football league to me, especially if the powers that be make the 12th team Memphis. I know Pitino says the league isn't really considering them, but they have the cash to upgrade the football program.

 

[Class of 72]

According to several reports, Hans Mueh, AD at Air Force has been quoted as saying their "interest in the Big East is high". They also seem very interested in bringing Army & Navy with them.

 http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/10/9/2478543/air-force-getting-ready-for-a-big-east-move

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...-force-navy-conference-realignment/in/1280828

 

So basketball loses Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn, Louisville and West Virginia, and in return it gets Army, Navy, and Air Force. Why not round it out to a full complement of five and invite the Coast Guard and Merchant Marine Academies? What a disaster! Keep it up and Charles Barkley's references to the Big Least will have been prophetic. 

 

There is no doubt Syracuse and Pitt are huge losses which cannot be replaced on a comparable level in basketball no matter how you cut it unless schools like Butler and Xavier sign on immediately. However, for those of us who were around at the beginning of the BE I hate to inform you but Seton Hall was just terrible while CONNU aspired to get an NIT invite and Georgetown was but a few seasons removed from being a terrible bball program. Its fans fought tooth and nail against the hiring of a black high school coach to lead the program. We all know how that turned out.
All that to say the immediate future may look bleak for the bball programs but it could turn out alright over time depending upon who joins. Schools like Butler, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, Gonzaga, St. Mary's to name a few would keep the level of bball very high IMHO.

 

Seton Hall and Uconn are great examples! They joined a basketball conference but were below-average BB schools. When Rutgers joined I had the same opinion of their BB program. Of course Uconn gets a football Stadium built and they think they are the next Penn State. Rutgers has one good season and think they belong in the Big Ten......BUT would settle for the ACC!! Their arrogance annoys the krap out of me!!!

Which brings me back to new schools being considered for BE membership. On the football side the BE did not lose much in the departure of Cuse and Pitt. That was a basketball move on the part of the ACC as most people now realize. The closest the BE will come to replacing them in terms of BB star-power and potential are Temple and Memphis. Both play football and BB and that brings the conference back to 16 for basketball and 8 for football. I think the BE wants to go to 12 for football and will add the service academies only if SMU, Houston and UCF turn down offers. It all seems to depend on Missouri and whether the Big East gets firm commitments from Loisville and West Virginia. IMO, NOBODY wants Uconn or Rutgers for football and I think the last couple of weeks they have come to that realization, therefore the Uconn president is all of a sudden warmer to "staying" in the BE.

Now, comes the hardest part-----raising the exit fee while keeping the 27 month departure period. Schools that are firmly committed to the future of the BE will approve it. But, like a mafia sit-down, it will also show those you cannot trust! Those should be given the offer to buy out by 2012 and waive the 27 month, even if they do not have a conference to go to!

 

According to today's Boston Globe, the ACC was looking at SU and UCONN as the invitees until BC stepped in.


http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-football/hc-uconn-bc-acc-1010-20111010-7,0,7775570.story

 

YES but the operative word is WAS!
As of October 9, 2011, neither Rutgers nor Uconn have invitations to another conference......which was my point. IF, and it is a big IF, they do eventually get invited, they would not be able to leave the Big East until 2015!!!!!! If the ACC wanted Rutgers, they would have been invited over Pitt but they wanted Pitt for basketball and gave up the potential NY/NJ market for western Pennsylvania.

 

[Mean Gene]

Finally some good ideas sprouting from the Big East. Boise football is like Gonzaga basketball in that they are a lot of people's second favorite team.

Boise
Air Force
Army
Navy
Rutgers
UConn
Louisville
USF
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Temple
?

Looks like an OK football league to me, especially if the powers that be make the 12th team Memphis. I know Pitino says the league isn't really considering them, but they have the cash to upgrade the football program.

 




In addition to the teams above I would look to add Memphis, Houston and SMU and have 14 in football if keeping Big East football and the conference alive is the way it's going to go. The addition of Temple and Memphis will offset the loss of Cuse and PITT in basketball. Memphis will be a top 10 - 15 team in basketball this year. It's not a horrible football league either. The service acadamies add niche that no one else has and Temple and Memphis have the money to blow out their football programs.

 

[redken]

Finally some good ideas sprouting from the Big East. Boise football is like Gonzaga basketball in that they are a lot of people's second favorite team.

Boise
Air Force
Army
Navy
Rutgers
UConn
Louisville
USF
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Temple
?

Looks like an OK football league to me, especially if the powers that be make the 12th team Memphis. I know Pitino says the league isn't really considering them, but they have the cash to upgrade the football program.

 

But, LJSA, we're all concerned about basketball, and what makes you think Louisville, West Virginia, and UConn will actually stick with the Big East? (I couldn't care less about Rutgers.) And in terms of basketball, what do the service academies and the likes of Boise State bring to the table? (Rhetorical question: the answer is nothing.)