Revamped Big East

Maybe I'm selling him short, but I think Gilvydas Biruta will only win the Wooden Award once.  

Thoughts?
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If your point here is to miss the point, you are doing an excellent job. Biruta was a frosh last year who played 22 minutes, scored 10 pts pg and grabbed 5.6 rebus pg. He is 6'8 240 and shoots 53%. If God's Gift gets those numbers this year at SJ he will be player of the year. With GG on the bench SJ goes to an all-small forward line of 6'7, 6'6, 6'5. Pretty impressive by Big East standards in your opinion??
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It may not be "impressive," as you put it, but a front line of 6'7" (Ty Grant), 6'-6" (Ron Artest) and 6'-5" (Lavor Postell) was good enough to win the Big East championship. 
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LOL! Yeah, and we had an all-freshman team. I think not! BTW, Artest was a 1st round NBA pick and was 6'7.
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You raised the issue of size, not experience, and that's what I was addressing. As for Ron Artest: (a) he was listed at 6-6 while at St. John's, and was probably closer to 6-5 as a frosh (besides, we all know what b.s. listed heights are; think Malik Boothe was anywhere near his listed height?); and (b) are you stating that one of our freshman forecourt players will never be a 1st round draft pick? If so, based on what?
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I am not here to fight brother redman. I was raising the issue of depth, experience and height re. Rutgers with one of redmen.com's members and he jokingly alluded to Biruta being a Wooden candidate to which I replied that he has more experience (soph) and height than any player we will have this year except GG who is a JC transfer. As far as Metta World Peace, he has been listed as 6'7 every since his official height was measured by the NBA in 1999' his sophomore season, which is the season alluded to and I doubt he has shruck in 13 years. Ron was one of the greatest players ever to wear a SJ uniform and to compare him to a current frosh who has not played a game is not right IMO. The 1999 team was an NCAA team and to mention that front line with our "freshman team" is laughable. Bottom line is we need both Pelle and Garrett to qualify or we will have Zero depth up front. I do not think there is a fan on this board that would disagree with me. Peace! 

BTW, the 1998-99 SJ roster included some great players:
St Johns 1998-99 Men's Basketball Roster
Posted: Fri March 19, 1999 at 12:54 p.m. EST


NO. PLAYER POS HT WT CLASS

3 Chudney Gray G 6-3 188 JR
10 Kareem Syed G 6-5 196 JR
11 Collin Charles G 5-11 167 JR
12 Erick Barkley G 6-1 185 FR
14 Marvis Thornton G 6-4 195 JR
15 Ron Artest G-F 6-7 246 SO
25 Lavor Postell G-F 6-6 212 JR
32 Tyrone Grant F 6-7 240 SR
33 Donald Emanuel F 6-8 230 FR
41 Reggie Jessie G-F 6-7 213 SO
55 Albert Richardson F 6-9 220 JR

Head Coach: Mike Jarvis
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Not looking for a fight either. But as your stats show, our front-court size on that team was not at all "impressive" for a Big East squad. (And let's face it, the heights cited are, at best, iffy.) Depth is definitely a big question mark for this team -- hopefully Amir and Norvel will get here in December -- but height isn't as critical as athleticism and attitude, just look at Charles Barkley as well as that '99 Redmen squad. As for Artest being 6'-6" or 6'-7" (and kids do grow from 18 to 20; Jayson Williams came here at as 6'-6" recruit), do you really think that one inch would have made a big difference in his game? I don't. And given his prep history, great upside, and skill set, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Maurice Harkless goes on to be a 1st round draft pick. In fact, I'm counting on it.

Now back to this thread's topic ...
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Fair enough redken and I hope this freshman class produces five pros as did the class above. There were 3 NBA players in that class and two others played over ten years in Europe. There was only one frosh in the starting lineup. I am hoping Nurideen is the real deal and Moe becomes a great player. And yes, unless two players we discussed return, we will be pencil thin on the bench but the kids that play will be sophs by Big East season in my book!
 
 So when Cincy and Louisville (and BYU) follow TCU to the B12 that leaves this BE:

SJU
SHU
Providence
Georgetown
DePaul
Marquette
Villanova
Notre Dame
West Virginia
Rutgers
UConn
USF

12 teams. 4 football schools, and a B12 raid out of the picture.

Moreover, if the B12 and the ACC decide to stop adding schools for now, there are no more chairs for WVU, Rutgers, UConn, and USF.

Say hello to Central Florida, East Carolina, Temple, Army, Navy, and Air Force.

That gets you to 10 football schools and 15 in basketball.

I guess it still qualifies as the "Big" east - it's just not very good in either football or basketball.

And you would think that WVU and USF to the SEC and Rutgers and UConn to the ACC would be inevitable.

What a shame that the BE leadership let the conference sit there like the rotting carcass of an large slow-moving herbivore to be picked apart by more active, aggressive, and intelligent leadership elsewhere.
 
 So when Cincy and Louisville (and BYU) follow TCU to the B12 that leaves this BE:

SJU
SHU
Providence
Georgetown
DePaul
Marquette
Villanova
Notre Dame
West Virginia
Rutgers
UConn
USF

12 teams. 4 football schools, and a B12 raid out of the picture.

Moreover, if the B12 and the ACC decide to stop adding schools for now, there are no more chairs for WVU, Rutgers, UConn, and USF.

Say hello to Central Florida, East Carolina, Temple, Army, Navy, and Air Force.

That gets you to 10 football schools and 15 in basketball.

I guess it still qualifies as the "Big" east - it's just not very good in either football or basketball.

And you would think that WVU and USF to the SEC and Rutgers and UConn to the ACC would be inevitable.

What a shame that the BE leadership let the conference sit there like the rotting carcass of an large slow-moving herbivore to be picked apart by more active, aggressive, and intelligent leadership elsewhere.
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1) why would big 12 want Cincy?
2). Why would sec want Louisville or USF?(they already have a pact not to add more than one school per state I believe)
3). Why would ACC want to add Uconn and RU and split more profits when both schools offer very limited value?

I just don't see the value for the ACC nor the big 12 to add too many more schools. It means splitting more money. If any school leaves, I see either the SEC adding WVU or the ACC adding Louisville. Those 2 moves are the only ones that make real sense. In actuality, I don't know why the ACC doesn't jettison BC which offers very little in a swap for either WVU and/or Louisville.

At a certain point, it doesn't benefit these conferences to add more crappy big east football programs. Big 12 would be smarter adding a SMU before it adds more Big East programs for the most part.

There is still a football league that will exist in the big east IMO because these conferences will lose a lot of money if they grow too big without adding schools of real value. If Missouri stays in the big 12, with the addition of TCU, I don't see why they'd want too many more big east programs.

Furthermore, what is the incentive of the bball schools to push the issue? We know the worst case scenario. We know that Xavier, Dayton etc aren't going anywhere. Neither is Temple, Memphis etc. By waiting, the bball schools stand to make more money in exit fees as they keep the Big East name and see what shakes out. The bball programs don't have much of an issue to push right now. The football schools might want to be proactive, but it's not happening. some make it seem like we're losing out by waiting, but at this point it doesn't matter all that much, because there is nothing for the bball schools to decide on. We know we're sticking together out of necessity anyway.
 
 So when Cincy and Louisville (and BYU) follow TCU to the B12 that leaves this BE:

SJU
SHU
Providence
Georgetown
DePaul
Marquette
Villanova
Notre Dame
West Virginia
Rutgers
UConn
USF

12 teams. 4 football schools, and a B12 raid out of the picture.

Moreover, if the B12 and the ACC decide to stop adding schools for now, there are no more chairs for WVU, Rutgers, UConn, and USF.

Say hello to Central Florida, East Carolina, Temple, Army, Navy, and Air Force.

That gets you to 10 football schools and 15 in basketball.

I guess it still qualifies as the "Big" east - it's just not very good in either football or basketball.

And you would think that WVU and USF to the SEC and Rutgers and UConn to the ACC would be inevitable.

What a shame that the BE leadership let the conference sit there like the rotting carcass of an large slow-moving herbivoe to be picked apart by more active, aggressive, and intelligent leadership elsewhere.
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If this is indeed the scenario, then the bball schools have to show some immediate leadership and harpoon any program that does not bring quality basketball. Central Florida and East Carolina have no business as all-sports members in a newly constructed Big East.
 
If this is indeed the scenario, then the bball schools have to show some immediate leadership and harpoon any program that does not bring quality basketball. Central Florida and East Carolina have no business as all-sports members in a newly constructed Big East.
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Apparently nobody but us cares about basketball. It's all football, all the time. Follow the Benjamins and that's the answer.
 
If this is indeed the scenario, then the bball schools have to show some immediate leadership and harpoon any program that does not bring quality basketball. Central Florida and East Carolina have no business as all-sports members in a newly constructed Big East.
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Apparently nobody but us cares about basketball. It's all football, all the time. Follow the Benjamins and that's the answer.
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Yes, but the bball schools can and probably would vote down ECU and central Florida. I think Temple and Memphis with the addition of Navy and/or Army for football-only is a more than fair compromise that promises to bring two dynamic bball programs in and appease the football schools a bit.
 
If this is indeed the scenario, then the bball schools have to show some immediate leadership and harpoon any program that does not bring quality basketball. Central Florida and East Carolina have no business as all-sports members in a newly constructed Big East.
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Apparently nobody but us cares about basketball. It's all football, all the time. Follow the Benjamins and that's the answer.
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The basketball schools are the only voting block in the current Big East (with Villanova as a wildcard). Everyone else is on their own. The power right now in the conference lies with the basketball schools have the power and I'm not sure they even know it. Why should they allow more expansion at the expense of basketball?

At the very least, they should insist on one new basketball school for every new football school to shore up their base when the eventual split happens.

You guys want East Carolina? Fine, but you have to bring in Xavier too.   
 
 So when Cincy and Louisville (and BYU) follow TCU to the B12 that leaves this BE:

SJU
SHU
Providence
Georgetown
DePaul
Marquette
Villanova
Notre Dame
West Virginia
Rutgers
UConn
USF

12 teams. 4 football schools, and a B12 raid out of the picture.

Moreover, if the B12 and the ACC decide to stop adding schools for now, there are no more chairs for WVU, Rutgers, UConn, and USF.

Say hello to Central Florida, East Carolina, Temple, Army, Navy, and Air Force.

That gets you to 10 football schools and 15 in basketball.

I guess it still qualifies as the "Big" east - it's just not very good in either football or basketball.

And you would think that WVU and USF to the SEC and Rutgers and UConn to the ACC would be inevitable.

What a shame that the BE leadership let the conference sit there like the rotting carcass of an large slow-moving herbivore to be picked apart by more active, aggressive, and intelligent leadership elsewhere.
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Most of the chairs have already moved and there will be SIX super conferences. The Big East will always be the sixth best football conference but do not sell the basketball quality short. For years the ACC was dominated by North Carolina and Duke with sporadic surges by Wake and Maryland due to quality coaches. It will improve with Cuse and Pitt but that is only if their excellent coaches are still there.
The Big East schools in the future may be just as strong as the ACC and maybe more evenly distributed in quality. In two years schools like Villanova, St. John's, Georgetown, Uconn, Marquette, Louisville and possibly Temple will be just as strong as the ACC lineup, if not better. Both will still be 5th and 6th in football.

As far as the Big 12, by adding TCU their football power ratings just shot through the roof. They now have 5 top 25 ranked teams. More than any other conference and they will be the strongest college football conference.

Let us wait and see who the braintrust in the Big invite before we pass final judgment.
 
 While reports late Thursday night speculated that invitations to potential new league members would be discussed — or even handed out — that turned out not to be the case. According to one person familiar with the topics discussed on the call, the talk was not about expansion, but raising the exit fee to leave the Big East.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/10/big_east_conference_trying_to.html
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I guess raising the exit fee first is the best way to clear the air and see who the guys are dealing under the table. Teams that dont agree to raising the exit fee will have to opt out of the conference now and it would bring transparency to which teams are on board. It makes sense as why should the big east invite new members with teams having one foot out the door. Need everybody to be above the table ASAP to rule out exodus before the big east can expand really. The Big 12 just did it themselves.
 
 While reports late Thursday night speculated that invitations to potential new league members would be discussed — or even handed out — that turned out not to be the case. According to one person familiar with the topics discussed on the call, the talk was not about expansion, but raising the exit fee to leave the Big East.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/10/big_east_conference_trying_to.html
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I guess raising the exit fee first is the best way to clear the air and see who the guys are dealing under the table. Teams that dont agree to raising the exit fee will have to opt out of the conference now and it would bring transparency to which teams are on board. It makes sense as why should the big east invite new members with teams having one foot out the door. Need everybody to be above the table ASAP to rule out exodus before the big east can expand really. The Big 12 just did it themselves.
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Do you see any of the football programs agreeing to this?
 
 While reports late Thursday night speculated that invitations to potential new league members would be discussed — or even handed out — that turned out not to be the case. According to one person familiar with the topics discussed on the call, the talk was not about expansion, but raising the exit fee to leave the Big East.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/10/big_east_conference_trying_to.html
Click to expand...
 

I guess raising the exit fee first is the best way to clear the air and see who the guys are dealing under the table. Teams that dont agree to raising the exit fee will have to opt out of the conference now and it would bring transparency to which teams are on board. It makes sense as why should the big east invite new members with teams having one foot out the door. Need everybody to be above the table ASAP to rule out exodus before the big east can expand really. The Big 12 just did it themselves.
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.

Do you see any of the football programs agreeing to this?
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I think that it is most of the football programs that are talking about this. One or two schools might be balking.
Put their feet to the flames with majority vote. If some don't like it, I'd guess they'd have to opt out of the conference and pay the 5 million exit fee we now have just so they could be in limbo with hopes of getting picked up. If most of the schools are on board, then it's time to make all schools make their decisions and now
 
I think raising the exit fee should be the very first thing that is implemented. It should be big. Nothing will flush out schools that have agendas that are not in the best interest of the BIG EAST. I would think it is the quickest way to find out who really is like minded, then you go from there. I think up to now we are just treading water and that is a reactive way to act. Let's get proactive, that will provide clarity and it will be easier to move from there.  
 
“I like a Temple and a Memphis and a Houston because of their basketball. I don’t really care about their football.”

 http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/10/07/mike-brey-fires-back-at-jim-boeheim-can-imagine-irish-in-acc/
 
“I like a Temple and a Memphis and a Houston because of their basketball. I don’t really care about their football.”

 http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/10/07/mike-brey-fires-back-at-jim-boeheim-can-imagine-irish-in-acc/
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Those are probably the only full-time football-playing members that I could stomach. And maybe an SMU now that they've been mentioned. The rest of the names make me want to puke.
 
“I like a Temple and a Memphis and a Houston because of their basketball. I don’t really care about their football.”

 http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/10/07/mike-brey-fires-back-at-jim-boeheim-can-imagine-irish-in-acc/
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Those are probably the only full-time football-playing members that I could stomach. And maybe an SMU now that they've been mentioned. The rest of the names make me want to puke.
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Gotta love Brey's attitude.
F&($ the football schools. 
 
“I like a Temple and a Memphis and a Houston because of their basketball. I don’t really care about their football.”

 http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/10/07/mike-brey-fires-back-at-jim-boeheim-can-imagine-irish-in-acc/
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 He don't care about the football because he is not trying to hold the conference together. I care about the BE holding together as a football conference because I don't wanna see the ACC tourny in MSG. I'll miss Pitt and Syracuse, I would like to hang on to Conn, WV, Cincy, and Louisville. SJU survives in a hoops only conference, but might not be in MSG every spring. Brey will continue to recruit whichever way it turns out. Not only doesn't Brey care about the football, he doesn't care about SJU hoops. We do. It's nice thinking we play in the best hoops conference in the country, and no doubt coach Steve liked selling that point.
 
Gotta love Brey's attitude.
F&($ the football schools. 
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Brey also told you that football is what will make the decision.
We may not like it, but that's what it is.
 
“I like a Temple and a Memphis and a Houston because of their basketball. I don’t really care about their football.”

 http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/10/07/mike-brey-fires-back-at-jim-boeheim-can-imagine-irish-in-acc/
Click to expand...
 

Those are probably the only full-time football-playing members that I could stomach. And maybe an SMU now that they've been mentioned. The rest of the names make me want to puke.
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Gotta love Brey's attitude.
F&($ the football schools. 
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 He can have that attitude because he cares nothing about the survival of the BE.
 
Gotta love Brey's attitude.
F&($ the football schools. 
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Brey also told you that football is what will make the decision.
We may not like it, but that's what it is.
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All Brey did was double-talk through the discussion and in the end said the same thing Uconn, Villanova, Cuse and Pitt have said......they will do what is best for them and screw the BE Conference and that FOOTBALL was the primary concern. He neglected to mention that ND voted against the ESPN TV deal and it is not a football playing member !!!!!!! He is pissed that Jim Boeheim called ND out from the time they joined the conference. ND, though a valuable brand in football, has SUCKED for years now and the dreams of a national championship as far as being in one of the so-called four super-conferences is laughable. Not as hysterical as Syracuse, Uconn or Villanova's self-aggrandizement but pretty close!
 
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