(POST GAME) (H of F) Vermont, Sat. Nov. 16, 4p, FS-2, 570 WMCA
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
[quote="newsman13" post=363710][quote="Section9" post=363669][quote="MCNPA" post=363655][quote="newsman13" post=363647][quote="Logen" post=363623][quote="newsman13" post=363616][quote="Eric Williamson" post=363615]We shot 34.5% from the field, 26.3% from three, missed 12 free throw's, had 16 TO's and only lost by two.
It's safe to say that we didn't play our best game today. That is going to happen with a new coach and system, especially early in the season.
Now, if the poor shooting, missed free throws, and turnovers turn into more of a trend rather than a fluke, then it will be time to be worried. But I am not flipping out or over-reacting after one game against a quality opponent.[/quote]
Let's not confuse Vermont with Virginia, Duke or Michigan State. The team stunk out the joint. I'm sure we'll turn it around against the low to mid majors on the schedule...but I saw nothing that tells me we can compete against the big boys.[/quote]
And why would anyone expect that we could compete with the big boys? We have been a mediocre program with one lousy coach after another for decades. Even some of the teams that have had a modicum of success in that time have had issues. Yes, the team had a lousy game but they kept fighting and that is more than I can say about a lot of the crap we have seen through the years. Sorry but we are back to baby steps. I want to have a team and coaches I can really root for because of something other than the logo on the uniform first and I will judge Anderson and co. by what they do, not with the bitterness left by the failure of the 6 preceding coaches. And I’ll save the competing with the big boys 6 months after starting ANOTHER rebuild for movies and fairy tales.[/quote]
Well, what are we doing in a big boy conference charging big boy prices? Face it, the team with the best player usually finds a way to win. Vermont had its all-american. Our best guy missed two free throws down the stretch. Baby steps, again. We seem to be bringing in "nice" players...but there isn't a McDonald's AA among them. Lavin, at least, brought studs here...studs who are competing for NBA jobs.
I'm not ready to give Anderson an F...but by the time we get to the conference, I hope he has a C+. In other words, more mediocrity from a team that has been mediocre (barring the Jarvis years) since the mid 80s.[/quote]
Anderson inherited this team and roster. Guy needs to be able to build his own team as well. We were ranked second to last entering this season into the Big East which is no fault of Anderson. To expect he comes in and turns a roster with a ton of former bench players into a big east monster is kind of absurd.[/quote]
Newsman still hasn't gotten over the Lavin firing.
His expectations should be tempered: this is going to be a losing season, not quite on a par with Mullin's first year but we'll be lucky to win 4 BE games. And I'm OK with that because this is going to be a 3 year process before we start to get back on track. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking we're going to bring in top 20-30 players, we've had a long recent history of mediocrity at best, nobody with that ranking is going to want to come here, at least not until we start to produce on the court.
I'm not giving Anderson any grade for this year, he's recruited 4 serviceable players for next year. He needs time to get his kind of guys in here to make his system work.[/quote]
The key word is "serviceable". We're picking up "serviceable players while the top 50 competition is stocking up with studs. So you say we have another three year plan. We're like the Russians or the Chinese with their economic "five year plans" back in the day that was just a ruse to keep the rubes looking far into the future. Wake up call: There is no three year plan.. We're committed to picking up "serviceable" players who'll keep the dogs away until the next coup.
Coach has brought in McGriff...who disappeared...Sears...who needs plenty of work...Dunn who needs plenty of work, but not as much... and Champaignie who's pretty good. No one expects any of these players to greatly turn around our fortunes...but they're Anderson's players. I don't know who's responsible for Heron's regression. Can't blame Mullin anymore.
As far as pining for Lavin...he was an outstanding representative of the school and he brought in top talent. I was sorry to see him go. I was glad to see who was chosen as his replacement...as Mullin was also an outstanding representative of the school. I see Anderson also representing us well. We haven't had a proven winner since Frank McGuire...and most posters' parents weren't born yet during his tenure. I had posted before that we should move to a mid-major conference where we belong...but now we can't even beat America East teams. OK, we eked out a win at home against number nine New Hampshire.[/quote]
"The key word is "serviceable". We're picking up "serviceable players while the top 50 competition is stocking up with studs."
What did Lavin bring in the last 2 years? What did Mullin bring in besides Ponds? Matt's transfers.
Now because cma is here, that all the 5 stars kids to run to SJU? Unfortunately that's not how it works. He has to teach and coach up these serviceable men, and turn them into pretty damn good players.
That's why I'm hope Roberts and champ become 2 half players, it's not me saying oh yeah they suck, they can't give us 2 halfs. I'm saying that what they done have been great, but we need more out of them, yeah champ is a baby, but he still has the height and the weight. Hopefully by B.E. play, they're ready to give 2 halfs, because we don't know how long it will take Steers to get ready, but if he's ready right away, then we'll have a pretty damn good front court. Need more from LJ, and Heron, this teams studs. Dunn will get better.
Dunn, Heron at the 2, LJ at the 3, Roberts/Champ at the 4, and Steers at the 5.
That could be a power house starting 5, Roberts/champ as the first in, followed by Earlington, Caraher, Nick.
Hopefully Williams gets healthy and is explosive like last year. Still think we can finish top 5 in the B.E. but need better play out of everyone.
cma said he wants to win a championship here, he know he needs better talent to do that, just gotta trust him on that for now.
Newsman relax lol, cma just began his tenure here, no need to kill the man over his first ever loss at sju.
I'll bet you that cma gets to the ncaa tourny before Lavin & Mullin did, and no Lavins first year don't count, since he had norms 10 seniors. it took him 4 yrs of his own players and Chris 4 years, bet you cma get to the ncaa tourny by year 3, willing to bet me on that?
It's safe to say that we didn't play our best game today. That is going to happen with a new coach and system, especially early in the season.
Now, if the poor shooting, missed free throws, and turnovers turn into more of a trend rather than a fluke, then it will be time to be worried. But I am not flipping out or over-reacting after one game against a quality opponent.[/quote]
Let's not confuse Vermont with Virginia, Duke or Michigan State. The team stunk out the joint. I'm sure we'll turn it around against the low to mid majors on the schedule...but I saw nothing that tells me we can compete against the big boys.[/quote]
And why would anyone expect that we could compete with the big boys? We have been a mediocre program with one lousy coach after another for decades. Even some of the teams that have had a modicum of success in that time have had issues. Yes, the team had a lousy game but they kept fighting and that is more than I can say about a lot of the crap we have seen through the years. Sorry but we are back to baby steps. I want to have a team and coaches I can really root for because of something other than the logo on the uniform first and I will judge Anderson and co. by what they do, not with the bitterness left by the failure of the 6 preceding coaches. And I’ll save the competing with the big boys 6 months after starting ANOTHER rebuild for movies and fairy tales.[/quote]
Well, what are we doing in a big boy conference charging big boy prices? Face it, the team with the best player usually finds a way to win. Vermont had its all-american. Our best guy missed two free throws down the stretch. Baby steps, again. We seem to be bringing in "nice" players...but there isn't a McDonald's AA among them. Lavin, at least, brought studs here...studs who are competing for NBA jobs.
I'm not ready to give Anderson an F...but by the time we get to the conference, I hope he has a C+. In other words, more mediocrity from a team that has been mediocre (barring the Jarvis years) since the mid 80s.[/quote]
Anderson inherited this team and roster. Guy needs to be able to build his own team as well. We were ranked second to last entering this season into the Big East which is no fault of Anderson. To expect he comes in and turns a roster with a ton of former bench players into a big east monster is kind of absurd.[/quote]
Newsman still hasn't gotten over the Lavin firing.
His expectations should be tempered: this is going to be a losing season, not quite on a par with Mullin's first year but we'll be lucky to win 4 BE games. And I'm OK with that because this is going to be a 3 year process before we start to get back on track. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking we're going to bring in top 20-30 players, we've had a long recent history of mediocrity at best, nobody with that ranking is going to want to come here, at least not until we start to produce on the court.I'm not giving Anderson any grade for this year, he's recruited 4 serviceable players for next year. He needs time to get his kind of guys in here to make his system work.[/quote]
The key word is "serviceable". We're picking up "serviceable players while the top 50 competition is stocking up with studs. So you say we have another three year plan. We're like the Russians or the Chinese with their economic "five year plans" back in the day that was just a ruse to keep the rubes looking far into the future. Wake up call: There is no three year plan.. We're committed to picking up "serviceable" players who'll keep the dogs away until the next coup.
Coach has brought in McGriff...who disappeared...Sears...who needs plenty of work...Dunn who needs plenty of work, but not as much... and Champaignie who's pretty good. No one expects any of these players to greatly turn around our fortunes...but they're Anderson's players. I don't know who's responsible for Heron's regression. Can't blame Mullin anymore.
As far as pining for Lavin...he was an outstanding representative of the school and he brought in top talent. I was sorry to see him go. I was glad to see who was chosen as his replacement...as Mullin was also an outstanding representative of the school. I see Anderson also representing us well. We haven't had a proven winner since Frank McGuire...and most posters' parents weren't born yet during his tenure. I had posted before that we should move to a mid-major conference where we belong...but now we can't even beat America East teams. OK, we eked out a win at home against number nine New Hampshire.[/quote]
"The key word is "serviceable". We're picking up "serviceable players while the top 50 competition is stocking up with studs."
What did Lavin bring in the last 2 years? What did Mullin bring in besides Ponds? Matt's transfers.
Now because cma is here, that all the 5 stars kids to run to SJU? Unfortunately that's not how it works. He has to teach and coach up these serviceable men, and turn them into pretty damn good players.
That's why I'm hope Roberts and champ become 2 half players, it's not me saying oh yeah they suck, they can't give us 2 halfs. I'm saying that what they done have been great, but we need more out of them, yeah champ is a baby, but he still has the height and the weight. Hopefully by B.E. play, they're ready to give 2 halfs, because we don't know how long it will take Steers to get ready, but if he's ready right away, then we'll have a pretty damn good front court. Need more from LJ, and Heron, this teams studs. Dunn will get better.
Dunn, Heron at the 2, LJ at the 3, Roberts/Champ at the 4, and Steers at the 5.
That could be a power house starting 5, Roberts/champ as the first in, followed by Earlington, Caraher, Nick.
Hopefully Williams gets healthy and is explosive like last year. Still think we can finish top 5 in the B.E. but need better play out of everyone.
cma said he wants to win a championship here, he know he needs better talent to do that, just gotta trust him on that for now.
Newsman relax lol, cma just began his tenure here, no need to kill the man over his first ever loss at sju.
I'll bet you that cma gets to the ncaa tourny before Lavin & Mullin did, and no Lavins first year don't count, since he had norms 10 seniors. it took him 4 yrs of his own players and Chris 4 years, bet you cma get to the ncaa tourny by year 3, willing to bet me on that?
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[quote="newsman13" post=363710][quote="Section9" post=363669][quote="MCNPA" post=363655][quote="newsman13" post=363647][quote="Logen" post=363623][quote="newsman13" post=363616][quote="Eric Williamson" post=363615]We shot 34.5% from the field, 26.3% from three, missed 12 free throw's, had 16 TO's and only lost by two.
It's safe to say that we didn't play our best game today. That is going to happen with a new coach and system, especially early in the season.
Now, if the poor shooting, missed free throws, and turnovers turn into more of a trend rather than a fluke, then it will be time to be worried. But I am not flipping out or over-reacting after one game against a quality opponent.[/quote]
Let's not confuse Vermont with Virginia, Duke or Michigan State. The team stunk out the joint. I'm sure we'll turn it around against the low to mid majors on the schedule...but I saw nothing that tells me we can compete against the big boys.[/quote]
And why would anyone expect that we could compete with the big boys? We have been a mediocre program with one lousy coach after another for decades. Even some of the teams that have had a modicum of success in that time have had issues. Yes, the team had a lousy game but they kept fighting and that is more than I can say about a lot of the crap we have seen through the years. Sorry but we are back to baby steps. I want to have a team and coaches I can really root for because of something other than the logo on the uniform first and I will judge Anderson and co. by what they do, not with the bitterness left by the failure of the 6 preceding coaches. And I’ll save the competing with the big boys 6 months after starting ANOTHER rebuild for movies and fairy tales.[/quote]
Well, what are we doing in a big boy conference charging big boy prices? Face it, the team with the best player usually finds a way to win. Vermont had its all-american. Our best guy missed two free throws down the stretch. Baby steps, again. We seem to be bringing in "nice" players...but there isn't a McDonald's AA among them. Lavin, at least, brought studs here...studs who are competing for NBA jobs.
I'm not ready to give Anderson an F...but by the time we get to the conference, I hope he has a C+. In other words, more mediocrity from a team that has been mediocre (barring the Jarvis years) since the mid 80s.[/quote]
Anderson inherited this team and roster. Guy needs to be able to build his own team as well. We were ranked second to last entering this season into the Big East which is no fault of Anderson. To expect he comes in and turns a roster with a ton of former bench players into a big east monster is kind of absurd.[/quote]
Newsman still hasn't gotten over the Lavin firing. His expectations should be tempered: this is going to be a losing season, not quite on a par with Mullin's first year but we'll be lucky to win 4 BE games. And I'm OK with that because this is going to be a 3 year process before we start to get back on track. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking we're going to bring in top 20-30 players, we've had a long recent history of mediocrity at best, nobody with that ranking is going to want to come here, at least not until we start to produce on the court.
I'm not giving Anderson any grade for this year, he's recruited 4 serviceable players for next year. He needs time to get his kind of guys in here to make his system work.[/quote]
The key word is "serviceable". We're picking up "serviceable players while the top 50 competition is stocking up with studs. So you say we have another three year plan. We're like the Russians or the Chinese with their economic "five year plans" back in the day that was just a ruse to keep the rubes looking far into the future. Wake up call: There is no three year plan.. We're committed to picking up "serviceable" players who'll keep the dogs away until the next coup.
Coach has brought in McGriff...who disappeared...Sears...who needs plenty of work...Dunn who needs plenty of work, but not as much... and Champaignie who's pretty good. No one expects any of these players to greatly turn around our fortunes...but they're Anderson's players. I don't know who's responsible for Heron's regression. Can't blame Mullin anymore.
As far as pining for Lavin...he was an outstanding representative of the school and he brought in top talent. I was sorry to see him go. I was glad to see who was chosen as his replacement...as Mullin was also an outstanding representative of the school. I see Anderson also representing us well. We haven't had a proven winner since Frank McGuire...and most posters' parents weren't born yet during his tenure. I had posted before that we should move to a mid-major conference where we belong...but now we can't even beat America East teams. OK, we eked out a win at home against number nine New Hampshire.[/quote]
Newsman,
I think Anderson's recruiting strategy is similar to what John Beilein used to do, especially at West Virginia.
He basically went out and found players who fit his system. They may not have been the most heralded guys, or had 5 stars attached to their names, but they could execute his style of basketball to a T. The end result, was that the whole was better then the sum of the parts. Even at Michigan, it was similar, though he did get some big names there. Still, a lot of under the radar guys helped them get to the national championship game, twice.
I believe Anderson will do similar things here. Maybe not two appearances in the national championship game, but I believe he will recruit players who excel in the pressure defense, and we will be consistent Big East contenders because of it. I just don't think you will see the results manifest itself this year, and maybe not next year, either. Beilein was 31-29 his first two years at West Virginia, 46-53 his first three years at Michigan, so it takes time.
I know they play different styles, but I see lots of similarities WRT early recruiting.
It's safe to say that we didn't play our best game today. That is going to happen with a new coach and system, especially early in the season.
Now, if the poor shooting, missed free throws, and turnovers turn into more of a trend rather than a fluke, then it will be time to be worried. But I am not flipping out or over-reacting after one game against a quality opponent.[/quote]
Let's not confuse Vermont with Virginia, Duke or Michigan State. The team stunk out the joint. I'm sure we'll turn it around against the low to mid majors on the schedule...but I saw nothing that tells me we can compete against the big boys.[/quote]
And why would anyone expect that we could compete with the big boys? We have been a mediocre program with one lousy coach after another for decades. Even some of the teams that have had a modicum of success in that time have had issues. Yes, the team had a lousy game but they kept fighting and that is more than I can say about a lot of the crap we have seen through the years. Sorry but we are back to baby steps. I want to have a team and coaches I can really root for because of something other than the logo on the uniform first and I will judge Anderson and co. by what they do, not with the bitterness left by the failure of the 6 preceding coaches. And I’ll save the competing with the big boys 6 months after starting ANOTHER rebuild for movies and fairy tales.[/quote]
Well, what are we doing in a big boy conference charging big boy prices? Face it, the team with the best player usually finds a way to win. Vermont had its all-american. Our best guy missed two free throws down the stretch. Baby steps, again. We seem to be bringing in "nice" players...but there isn't a McDonald's AA among them. Lavin, at least, brought studs here...studs who are competing for NBA jobs.
I'm not ready to give Anderson an F...but by the time we get to the conference, I hope he has a C+. In other words, more mediocrity from a team that has been mediocre (barring the Jarvis years) since the mid 80s.[/quote]
Anderson inherited this team and roster. Guy needs to be able to build his own team as well. We were ranked second to last entering this season into the Big East which is no fault of Anderson. To expect he comes in and turns a roster with a ton of former bench players into a big east monster is kind of absurd.[/quote]
Newsman still hasn't gotten over the Lavin firing.
His expectations should be tempered: this is going to be a losing season, not quite on a par with Mullin's first year but we'll be lucky to win 4 BE games. And I'm OK with that because this is going to be a 3 year process before we start to get back on track. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking we're going to bring in top 20-30 players, we've had a long recent history of mediocrity at best, nobody with that ranking is going to want to come here, at least not until we start to produce on the court.I'm not giving Anderson any grade for this year, he's recruited 4 serviceable players for next year. He needs time to get his kind of guys in here to make his system work.[/quote]
The key word is "serviceable". We're picking up "serviceable players while the top 50 competition is stocking up with studs. So you say we have another three year plan. We're like the Russians or the Chinese with their economic "five year plans" back in the day that was just a ruse to keep the rubes looking far into the future. Wake up call: There is no three year plan.. We're committed to picking up "serviceable" players who'll keep the dogs away until the next coup.
Coach has brought in McGriff...who disappeared...Sears...who needs plenty of work...Dunn who needs plenty of work, but not as much... and Champaignie who's pretty good. No one expects any of these players to greatly turn around our fortunes...but they're Anderson's players. I don't know who's responsible for Heron's regression. Can't blame Mullin anymore.
As far as pining for Lavin...he was an outstanding representative of the school and he brought in top talent. I was sorry to see him go. I was glad to see who was chosen as his replacement...as Mullin was also an outstanding representative of the school. I see Anderson also representing us well. We haven't had a proven winner since Frank McGuire...and most posters' parents weren't born yet during his tenure. I had posted before that we should move to a mid-major conference where we belong...but now we can't even beat America East teams. OK, we eked out a win at home against number nine New Hampshire.[/quote]
Newsman,
I think Anderson's recruiting strategy is similar to what John Beilein used to do, especially at West Virginia.
He basically went out and found players who fit his system. They may not have been the most heralded guys, or had 5 stars attached to their names, but they could execute his style of basketball to a T. The end result, was that the whole was better then the sum of the parts. Even at Michigan, it was similar, though he did get some big names there. Still, a lot of under the radar guys helped them get to the national championship game, twice.
I believe Anderson will do similar things here. Maybe not two appearances in the national championship game, but I believe he will recruit players who excel in the pressure defense, and we will be consistent Big East contenders because of it. I just don't think you will see the results manifest itself this year, and maybe not next year, either. Beilein was 31-29 his first two years at West Virginia, 46-53 his first three years at Michigan, so it takes time.
I know they play different styles, but I see lots of similarities WRT early recruiting.
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[quote="newsman13" post=363647][quote="Logen" post=363623][quote="newsman13" post=363616][quote="Eric Williamson" post=363615]We shot 34.5% from the field, 26.3% from three, missed 12 free throw's, had 16 TO's and only lost by two.
It's safe to say that we didn't play our best game today. That is going to happen with a new coach and system, especially early in the season.
Now, if the poor shooting, missed free throws, and turnovers turn into more of a trend rather than a fluke, then it will be time to be worried. But I am not flipping out or over-reacting after one game against a quality opponent.[/quote]
Let's not confuse Vermont with Virginia, Duke or Michigan State. The team stunk out the joint. I'm sure we'll turn it around against the low to mid majors on the schedule...but I saw nothing that tells me we can compete against the big boys.[/quote]
And why would anyone expect that we could compete with the big boys? We have been a mediocre program with one lousy coach after another for decades. Even some of the teams that have had a modicum of success in that time have had issues. Yes, the team had a lousy game but they kept fighting and that is more than I can say about a lot of the crap we have seen through the years. Sorry but we are back to baby steps. I want to have a team and coaches I can really root for because of something other than the logo on the uniform first and I will judge Anderson and co. by what they do, not with the bitterness left by the failure of the 6 preceding coaches. And I’ll save the competing with the big boys 6 months after starting ANOTHER rebuild for movies and fairy tales.[/quote]
Well, what are we doing in a big boy conference charging big boy prices? Face it, the team with the best player usually finds a way to win. Vermont had its all-american. Our best guy missed two free throws down the stretch. Baby steps, again. We seem to be bringing in "nice" players...but there isn't a McDonald's AA among them. Lavin, at least, brought studs here...studs who are competing for NBA jobs.
I'm not ready to give Anderson an F...but by the time we get to the conference, I hope he has a C+. In other words, more mediocrity from a team that has been mediocre (barring the Jarvis years) since the mid 80s.[/quote]
Boy, you are not ready to give Anderson an F? FOUR games into his first year???? Sorry but that is just comical.
It's safe to say that we didn't play our best game today. That is going to happen with a new coach and system, especially early in the season.
Now, if the poor shooting, missed free throws, and turnovers turn into more of a trend rather than a fluke, then it will be time to be worried. But I am not flipping out or over-reacting after one game against a quality opponent.[/quote]
Let's not confuse Vermont with Virginia, Duke or Michigan State. The team stunk out the joint. I'm sure we'll turn it around against the low to mid majors on the schedule...but I saw nothing that tells me we can compete against the big boys.[/quote]
And why would anyone expect that we could compete with the big boys? We have been a mediocre program with one lousy coach after another for decades. Even some of the teams that have had a modicum of success in that time have had issues. Yes, the team had a lousy game but they kept fighting and that is more than I can say about a lot of the crap we have seen through the years. Sorry but we are back to baby steps. I want to have a team and coaches I can really root for because of something other than the logo on the uniform first and I will judge Anderson and co. by what they do, not with the bitterness left by the failure of the 6 preceding coaches. And I’ll save the competing with the big boys 6 months after starting ANOTHER rebuild for movies and fairy tales.[/quote]
Well, what are we doing in a big boy conference charging big boy prices? Face it, the team with the best player usually finds a way to win. Vermont had its all-american. Our best guy missed two free throws down the stretch. Baby steps, again. We seem to be bringing in "nice" players...but there isn't a McDonald's AA among them. Lavin, at least, brought studs here...studs who are competing for NBA jobs.
I'm not ready to give Anderson an F...but by the time we get to the conference, I hope he has a C+. In other words, more mediocrity from a team that has been mediocre (barring the Jarvis years) since the mid 80s.[/quote]
Boy, you are not ready to give Anderson an F? FOUR games into his first year???? Sorry but that is just comical.
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[quote="newsman13" post=363710][quote="Section9" post=363669][quote="MCNPA" post=363655][quote="newsman13" post=363647][quote="Logen" post=363623][quote="newsman13" post=363616][quote="Eric Williamson" post=363615]We shot 34.5% from the field, 26.3% from three, missed 12 free throw's, had 16 TO's and only lost by two.
It's safe to say that we didn't play our best game today. That is going to happen with a new coach and system, especially early in the season.
Now, if the poor shooting, missed free throws, and turnovers turn into more of a trend rather than a fluke, then it will be time to be worried. But I am not flipping out or over-reacting after one game against a quality opponent.[/quote]
Let's not confuse Vermont with Virginia, Duke or Michigan State. The team stunk out the joint. I'm sure we'll turn it around against the low to mid majors on the schedule...but I saw nothing that tells me we can compete against the big boys.[/quote]
And why would anyone expect that we could compete with the big boys? We have been a mediocre program with one lousy coach after another for decades. Even some of the teams that have had a modicum of success in that time have had issues. Yes, the team had a lousy game but they kept fighting and that is more than I can say about a lot of the crap we have seen through the years. Sorry but we are back to baby steps. I want to have a team and coaches I can really root for because of something other than the logo on the uniform first and I will judge Anderson and co. by what they do, not with the bitterness left by the failure of the 6 preceding coaches. And I’ll save the competing with the big boys 6 months after starting ANOTHER rebuild for movies and fairy tales.[/quote]
Well, what are we doing in a big boy conference charging big boy prices? Face it, the team with the best player usually finds a way to win. Vermont had its all-american. Our best guy missed two free throws down the stretch. Baby steps, again. We seem to be bringing in "nice" players...but there isn't a McDonald's AA among them. Lavin, at least, brought studs here...studs who are competing for NBA jobs.
I'm not ready to give Anderson an F...but by the time we get to the conference, I hope he has a C+. In other words, more mediocrity from a team that has been mediocre (barring the Jarvis years) since the mid 80s.[/quote]
Anderson inherited this team and roster. Guy needs to be able to build his own team as well. We were ranked second to last entering this season into the Big East which is no fault of Anderson. To expect he comes in and turns a roster with a ton of former bench players into a big east monster is kind of absurd.[/quote]
Newsman still hasn't gotten over the Lavin firing. His expectations should be tempered: this is going to be a losing season, not quite on a par with Mullin's first year but we'll be lucky to win 4 BE games. And I'm OK with that because this is going to be a 3 year process before we start to get back on track. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking we're going to bring in top 20-30 players, we've had a long recent history of mediocrity at best, nobody with that ranking is going to want to come here, at least not until we start to produce on the court.
I'm not giving Anderson any grade for this year, he's recruited 4 serviceable players for next year. He needs time to get his kind of guys in here to make his system work.[/quote]
The key word is "serviceable". We're picking up "serviceable players while the top 50 competition is stocking up with studs. So you say we have another three year plan. We're like the Russians or the Chinese with their economic "five year plans" back in the day that was just a ruse to keep the rubes looking far into the future. Wake up call: There is no three year plan.. We're committed to picking up "serviceable" players who'll keep the dogs away until the next coup.
Coach has brought in McGriff...who disappeared...Sears...who needs plenty of work...Dunn who needs plenty of work, but not as much... and Champaignie who's pretty good. No one expects any of these players to greatly turn around our fortunes...but they're Anderson's players. I don't know who's responsible for Heron's regression. Can't blame Mullin anymore.
As far as pining for Lavin...he was an outstanding representative of the school and he brought in top talent. I was sorry to see him go. I was glad to see who was chosen as his replacement...as Mullin was also an outstanding representative of the school. I see Anderson also representing us well. We haven't had a proven winner since Frank McGuire...and most posters' parents weren't born yet during his tenure. I had posted before that we should move to a mid-major conference where we belong...but now we can't even beat America East teams. OK, we eked out a win at home against number nine New Hampshire.[/quote]
We've had a few outstanding representative coaches, you left out Norm BTW. And I guess Louie was another one of those who wasn't a proven winner after MCGuire.
So Heron's two game skid is Anderson's fault, Mullin must have screwed him up first, because we can't blame Chris anymore. Except he stopped recruiting for two years and left Anderson in the lurch with only two proven players, that's Anderson's fault too.
Just who exactly did you expect Anderson was going to get for this season when he was hired in the spring after the vast majority of recruits were already signed? McGriff hasn't disappeared, he's injured, I guess that's Anderson"s fault too.
I'm still giving Anderson a pass for the next two seasons after this one.
It's safe to say that we didn't play our best game today. That is going to happen with a new coach and system, especially early in the season.
Now, if the poor shooting, missed free throws, and turnovers turn into more of a trend rather than a fluke, then it will be time to be worried. But I am not flipping out or over-reacting after one game against a quality opponent.[/quote]
Let's not confuse Vermont with Virginia, Duke or Michigan State. The team stunk out the joint. I'm sure we'll turn it around against the low to mid majors on the schedule...but I saw nothing that tells me we can compete against the big boys.[/quote]
And why would anyone expect that we could compete with the big boys? We have been a mediocre program with one lousy coach after another for decades. Even some of the teams that have had a modicum of success in that time have had issues. Yes, the team had a lousy game but they kept fighting and that is more than I can say about a lot of the crap we have seen through the years. Sorry but we are back to baby steps. I want to have a team and coaches I can really root for because of something other than the logo on the uniform first and I will judge Anderson and co. by what they do, not with the bitterness left by the failure of the 6 preceding coaches. And I’ll save the competing with the big boys 6 months after starting ANOTHER rebuild for movies and fairy tales.[/quote]
Well, what are we doing in a big boy conference charging big boy prices? Face it, the team with the best player usually finds a way to win. Vermont had its all-american. Our best guy missed two free throws down the stretch. Baby steps, again. We seem to be bringing in "nice" players...but there isn't a McDonald's AA among them. Lavin, at least, brought studs here...studs who are competing for NBA jobs.
I'm not ready to give Anderson an F...but by the time we get to the conference, I hope he has a C+. In other words, more mediocrity from a team that has been mediocre (barring the Jarvis years) since the mid 80s.[/quote]
Anderson inherited this team and roster. Guy needs to be able to build his own team as well. We were ranked second to last entering this season into the Big East which is no fault of Anderson. To expect he comes in and turns a roster with a ton of former bench players into a big east monster is kind of absurd.[/quote]
Newsman still hasn't gotten over the Lavin firing.
His expectations should be tempered: this is going to be a losing season, not quite on a par with Mullin's first year but we'll be lucky to win 4 BE games. And I'm OK with that because this is going to be a 3 year process before we start to get back on track. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking we're going to bring in top 20-30 players, we've had a long recent history of mediocrity at best, nobody with that ranking is going to want to come here, at least not until we start to produce on the court.I'm not giving Anderson any grade for this year, he's recruited 4 serviceable players for next year. He needs time to get his kind of guys in here to make his system work.[/quote]
The key word is "serviceable". We're picking up "serviceable players while the top 50 competition is stocking up with studs. So you say we have another three year plan. We're like the Russians or the Chinese with their economic "five year plans" back in the day that was just a ruse to keep the rubes looking far into the future. Wake up call: There is no three year plan.. We're committed to picking up "serviceable" players who'll keep the dogs away until the next coup.
Coach has brought in McGriff...who disappeared...Sears...who needs plenty of work...Dunn who needs plenty of work, but not as much... and Champaignie who's pretty good. No one expects any of these players to greatly turn around our fortunes...but they're Anderson's players. I don't know who's responsible for Heron's regression. Can't blame Mullin anymore.
As far as pining for Lavin...he was an outstanding representative of the school and he brought in top talent. I was sorry to see him go. I was glad to see who was chosen as his replacement...as Mullin was also an outstanding representative of the school. I see Anderson also representing us well. We haven't had a proven winner since Frank McGuire...and most posters' parents weren't born yet during his tenure. I had posted before that we should move to a mid-major conference where we belong...but now we can't even beat America East teams. OK, we eked out a win at home against number nine New Hampshire.[/quote]
We've had a few outstanding representative coaches, you left out Norm BTW. And I guess Louie was another one of those who wasn't a proven winner after MCGuire.
So Heron's two game skid is Anderson's fault, Mullin must have screwed him up first, because we can't blame Chris anymore. Except he stopped recruiting for two years and left Anderson in the lurch with only two proven players, that's Anderson's fault too.
Just who exactly did you expect Anderson was going to get for this season when he was hired in the spring after the vast majority of recruits were already signed? McGriff hasn't disappeared, he's injured, I guess that's Anderson"s fault too.
I'm still giving Anderson a pass for the next two seasons after this one.
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JohnnyFever
Active member
I look at it this way...we just aren't ready to beat top notch mid majors with veteran tourney teams and probably not any F5's at this stage in the game. Even though we have Heron and Fig we are essentially rebuilding. If either one of those guys has an off game our chances for victory plummet. Heron was a complete no show until the final few minutes. All I was asking for this year were signs that we can implement CMA's system and be effective at it and hopefully see growth in development. I've seen a bunch of that already albeit vs. worse teams, but I bet we will see some good games where we cause havoc in conference play. We may give G'Town fits. Roberts is already becoming productive and his 4 year outlook is rock solid at worst. Earlington has forced me to eat crow early which I'm happy about. Champagnie already looks like a diamond in the rough and he has a nice shot and rebounds well. We got complimented on rebounding during the Vermont game by an announcer. Do you know how refreshing that is?
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.
Is anybody else kinda excited that Dunn having sat out for almost 2 years had the confidence to put up 2 of the biggest shots of the game: the buzzer beater to end the half and, of course, the shot with 10 seconds to go.
Dude may have shot poorly overall but it was his first freakin game. Really looking forward to seeing this kid do his thing.
Dude may have shot poorly overall but it was his first freakin game. Really looking forward to seeing this kid do his thing.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=363747]I look at it this way...we just aren't ready to beat top notch mid majors with veteran tourney teams and probably not any F5's at this stage in the game. Even though we have Heron and Fig we are essentially rebuilding. If either one of those guys has an off game our chances for victory plummet. Heron was a complete no show until the final few minutes. All I was asking for this year were signs that we can implement CMA's system and be effective at it and hopefully see growth in development. I've seen a bunch of that already albeit vs. worse teams, but I bet we will see some good games where we cause havoc in conference play. We may give G'Town fits. Roberts is already becoming productive and his 4 year outlook is rock solid at worst. Earlington has forced me to eat crow early which I'm happy about. Champagnie already looks like a diamond in the rough and he has a nice shot and rebounds well. We got complimented on rebounding during the Vermont game by an announcer. Do you know how refreshing that is?
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”
Doc Butler had many fine points.
CMA seems to trust only six players with the game on the line. They are LJ, Heron, Roberts, Champ, Earlington and Dunn. That’s who he player.
Roberts is a pleasure. He doesn’t need the ball and still makes an impact.
Heron is strictly a spot up shooter. He should sprint to the 3 point line. He does not have a good handle, yet he continually drive into traffic and let’s the refs sort it out.
LJ is another who does not penetrate. He should be cutting off back screens in addition to taking his threes.
Champ does whatever is asked. Hits the boards, tough D, and puts up good numbers without being an option.
Earlington is a scrapper. Seems to always be in the hunt for offensive rebounds, put backs and gets his numbers in limited time.
Dunn seems to be the only guy who can penetrate, beat someone off the dribble. I think we will be happy with him.
CMA seems to trust only six players with the game on the line. They are LJ, Heron, Roberts, Champ, Earlington and Dunn. That’s who he player.
Roberts is a pleasure. He doesn’t need the ball and still makes an impact.
Heron is strictly a spot up shooter. He should sprint to the 3 point line. He does not have a good handle, yet he continually drive into traffic and let’s the refs sort it out.
LJ is another who does not penetrate. He should be cutting off back screens in addition to taking his threes.
Champ does whatever is asked. Hits the boards, tough D, and puts up good numbers without being an option.
Earlington is a scrapper. Seems to always be in the hunt for offensive rebounds, put backs and gets his numbers in limited time.
Dunn seems to be the only guy who can penetrate, beat someone off the dribble. I think we will be happy with him.
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=363759][quote="Mike Zaun" post=363747]I look at it this way...we just aren't ready to beat top notch mid majors with veteran tourney teams and probably not any F5's at this stage in the game. Even though we have Heron and Fig we are essentially rebuilding. If either one of those guys has an off game our chances for victory plummet. Heron was a complete no show until the final few minutes. All I was asking for this year were signs that we can implement CMA's system and be effective at it and hopefully see growth in development. I've seen a bunch of that already albeit vs. worse teams, but I bet we will see some good games where we cause havoc in conference play. We may give G'Town fits. Roberts is already becoming productive and his 4 year outlook is rock solid at worst. Earlington has forced me to eat crow early which I'm happy about. Champagnie already looks like a diamond in the rough and he has a nice shot and rebounds well. We got complimented on rebounding during the Vermont game by an announcer. Do you know how refreshing that is?
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”[/quote]
And if we did not miss a ton of foul shots some would have us contending for BE title. I’m a moderation guy and was disappointed we lost for sure. This staff and group of kids are easy to root for, knowing this will be a challenging season. To conclude anything at this point is nutty. CMA is clearly experienced, dedicated leader who seems to have ability to promote nurturing, no nonsense culture. Over the next few seasons he’ll have to get quality recruits of course, but right now the hire appears very promising. At game Saturday a common observation from hoops guys was SJU has a legit coach, who if he gets good players, should get SJU to a consistently competitive level.
Suspect SJ may only win 15 games or so this season and have an equally challenging time next year with likely loss of top two players. Upset a couple of solid teams along the way, play an aggressive style to attract recruits and I do see light at end of tunnel. If not, CMA was well worth the risk.
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”[/quote]
And if we did not miss a ton of foul shots some would have us contending for BE title. I’m a moderation guy and was disappointed we lost for sure. This staff and group of kids are easy to root for, knowing this will be a challenging season. To conclude anything at this point is nutty. CMA is clearly experienced, dedicated leader who seems to have ability to promote nurturing, no nonsense culture. Over the next few seasons he’ll have to get quality recruits of course, but right now the hire appears very promising. At game Saturday a common observation from hoops guys was SJU has a legit coach, who if he gets good players, should get SJU to a consistently competitive level.
Suspect SJ may only win 15 games or so this season and have an equally challenging time next year with likely loss of top two players. Upset a couple of solid teams along the way, play an aggressive style to attract recruits and I do see light at end of tunnel. If not, CMA was well worth the risk.
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Nobody ever wants to lose to a mid-major at home, but I think if you're overly frustrated by this outcome may want to reset expectations for this season. We have a lot of results way worse than that coming our way.
Despite the general poor execution this was a good/entertaining game against an experienced and well-coached team. They really flexed both of of those attributes by dominating out of the half, doubling us up 30-15 over 13+ minutes.
But the single most important takeaway from the game in my view is our play the last 5 and change. We were -10 with 5:59 to go, frenetically scored 9 points in a little over 2 minutes...and were still -9 with 3:19 to play. Deflating.
In an overall poorly played game by SJU, that could have been it. UVM resisted a big push, SJU could have folded.
Instead we went on a 13-4 run in the next 2:43 to tie the game with 19 seconds to play.
Scoring 22 points in 5+ minutes at the end of the game is impressive enough in terms of the energy spend required. Way more than that, after having an initial run thwarted, the ability to hold UVM to 4 points from 3:19 mark until the last possession is another level of conditioning completely.
When SJU has a more balanced and talented roster, if we are going to play like that in the last 5 minutes of games, going to be on the other side of a lot of these types of results even against better teams.
Despite the general poor execution this was a good/entertaining game against an experienced and well-coached team. They really flexed both of of those attributes by dominating out of the half, doubling us up 30-15 over 13+ minutes.
But the single most important takeaway from the game in my view is our play the last 5 and change. We were -10 with 5:59 to go, frenetically scored 9 points in a little over 2 minutes...and were still -9 with 3:19 to play. Deflating.
In an overall poorly played game by SJU, that could have been it. UVM resisted a big push, SJU could have folded.
Instead we went on a 13-4 run in the next 2:43 to tie the game with 19 seconds to play.
Scoring 22 points in 5+ minutes at the end of the game is impressive enough in terms of the energy spend required. Way more than that, after having an initial run thwarted, the ability to hold UVM to 4 points from 3:19 mark until the last possession is another level of conditioning completely.
When SJU has a more balanced and talented roster, if we are going to play like that in the last 5 minutes of games, going to be on the other side of a lot of these types of results even against better teams.
JohnnyFever
Active member
I'm not saying we couldn't beat them. We could've...lots of missed FT's and too many TO's plus the awful goaltend call. But my point was we shouldn't be surprised at this point to lose these types of games half the time. We don't yet have the horses to implement CMA's system at a high enough level to consistently easily handle these types of teams. Goodman just voted for Vermont to be in the top 25. I am anticipating getting hammered by Arizona and probably handled relatively easily by ASU. Hope I'm wrong, but this is just where we are in the moment rebuilding. There have been promising signs however.
[quote="Paultzman" post=363767][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=363759][quote="Mike Zaun" post=363747]I look at it this way...we just aren't ready to beat top notch mid majors with veteran tourney teams and probably not any F5's at this stage in the game. Even though we have Heron and Fig we are essentially rebuilding. If either one of those guys has an off game our chances for victory plummet. Heron was a complete no show until the final few minutes. All I was asking for this year were signs that we can implement CMA's system and be effective at it and hopefully see growth in development. I've seen a bunch of that already albeit vs. worse teams, but I bet we will see some good games where we cause havoc in conference play. We may give G'Town fits. Roberts is already becoming productive and his 4 year outlook is rock solid at worst. Earlington has forced me to eat crow early which I'm happy about. Champagnie already looks like a diamond in the rough and he has a nice shot and rebounds well. We got complimented on rebounding during the Vermont game by an announcer. Do you know how refreshing that is?
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”[/quote]
And if we did miss a ton of foul shots some would have us contending for BE title. I’m a moderation guy and was disappointed we lost for sure. This staff and group of kids are easy to root for, knowing this will be a challenging season. To conclude anything at this point is nutty. CMA is clearly experienced, dedicated leader who seems to have ability to promote nurturing, no nonsense culture. Over the next few seasons he’ll have to get quality recruits of course, but right now the hire appears very promising. At game Saturday a common observation from hoops guys was SJU has a legit coach, who if he gets good players, should get SJU to a consistently competitive level.
Suspect SJ may only win 15 games or so this season and have an equally challenging time next year with likely loss of top two players. Upset a couple of solid teams along the way, play an attractive style to attract recruits and I do see light at end of tunnel. If not, CMA was well worth the risk.[/quote]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”[/quote]
And if we did miss a ton of foul shots some would have us contending for BE title. I’m a moderation guy and was disappointed we lost for sure. This staff and group of kids are easy to root for, knowing this will be a challenging season. To conclude anything at this point is nutty. CMA is clearly experienced, dedicated leader who seems to have ability to promote nurturing, no nonsense culture. Over the next few seasons he’ll have to get quality recruits of course, but right now the hire appears very promising. At game Saturday a common observation from hoops guys was SJU has a legit coach, who if he gets good players, should get SJU to a consistently competitive level.
Suspect SJ may only win 15 games or so this season and have an equally challenging time next year with likely loss of top two players. Upset a couple of solid teams along the way, play an attractive style to attract recruits and I do see light at end of tunnel. If not, CMA was well worth the risk.[/quote]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post
[quote="Monte" post=363789][quote="Paultzman" post=363767][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=363759][quote="Mike Zaun" post=363747]I look at it this way...we just aren't ready to beat top notch mid majors with veteran tourney teams and probably not any F5's at this stage in the game. Even though we have Heron and Fig we are essentially rebuilding. If either one of those guys has an off game our chances for victory plummet. Heron was a complete no show until the final few minutes. All I was asking for this year were signs that we can implement CMA's system and be effective at it and hopefully see growth in development. I've seen a bunch of that already albeit vs. worse teams, but I bet we will see some good games where we cause havoc in conference play. We may give G'Town fits. Roberts is already becoming productive and his 4 year outlook is rock solid at worst. Earlington has forced me to eat crow early which I'm happy about. Champagnie already looks like a diamond in the rough and he has a nice shot and rebounds well. We got complimented on rebounding during the Vermont game by an announcer. Do you know how refreshing that is?
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”[/quote]
And if we did miss a ton of foul shots some would have us contending for BE title. I’m a moderation guy and was disappointed we lost for sure. This staff and group of kids are easy to root for, knowing this will be a challenging season. To conclude anything at this point is nutty. CMA is clearly experienced, dedicated leader who seems to have ability to promote nurturing, no nonsense culture. Over the next few seasons he’ll have to get quality recruits of course, but right now the hire appears very promising. At game Saturday a common observation from hoops guys was SJU has a legit coach, who if he gets good players, should get SJU to a consistently competitive level.
Suspect SJ may only win 15 games or so this season and have an equally challenging time next year with likely loss of top two players. Upset a couple of solid teams along the way, play an attractive style to attract recruits and I do see light at end of tunnel. If not, CMA was well worth the risk.[/quote]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post[/quote]
I am, but need a re-read to find something to argue about!! I'll get back to (or is at at) you.:lol: :lol:
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”[/quote]
And if we did miss a ton of foul shots some would have us contending for BE title. I’m a moderation guy and was disappointed we lost for sure. This staff and group of kids are easy to root for, knowing this will be a challenging season. To conclude anything at this point is nutty. CMA is clearly experienced, dedicated leader who seems to have ability to promote nurturing, no nonsense culture. Over the next few seasons he’ll have to get quality recruits of course, but right now the hire appears very promising. At game Saturday a common observation from hoops guys was SJU has a legit coach, who if he gets good players, should get SJU to a consistently competitive level.
Suspect SJ may only win 15 games or so this season and have an equally challenging time next year with likely loss of top two players. Upset a couple of solid teams along the way, play an attractive style to attract recruits and I do see light at end of tunnel. If not, CMA was well worth the risk.[/quote]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post
[/quote]I am, but need a re-read to find something to argue about!! I'll get back to (or is at at) you.:lol: :lol:
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[quote="Logen" post=363792][quote="Monte" post=363789][quote="Paultzman" post=363767][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=363759][quote="Mike Zaun" post=363747]I look at it this way...we just aren't ready to beat top notch mid majors with veteran tourney teams and probably not any F5's at this stage in the game. Even though we have Heron and Fig we are essentially rebuilding. If either one of those guys has an off game our chances for victory plummet. Heron was a complete no show until the final few minutes. All I was asking for this year were signs that we can implement CMA's system and be effective at it and hopefully see growth in development. I've seen a bunch of that already albeit vs. worse teams, but I bet we will see some good games where we cause havoc in conference play. We may give G'Town fits. Roberts is already becoming productive and his 4 year outlook is rock solid at worst. Earlington has forced me to eat crow early which I'm happy about. Champagnie already looks like a diamond in the rough and he has a nice shot and rebounds well. We got complimented on rebounding during the Vermont game by an announcer. Do you know how refreshing that is?
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”[/quote]
And if we did miss a ton of foul shots some would have us contending for BE title. I’m a moderation guy and was disappointed we lost for sure. This staff and group of kids are easy to root for, knowing this will be a challenging season. To conclude anything at this point is nutty. CMA is clearly experienced, dedicated leader who seems to have ability to promote nurturing, no nonsense culture. Over the next few seasons he’ll have to get quality recruits of course, but right now the hire appears very promising. At game Saturday a common observation from hoops guys was SJU has a legit coach, who if he gets good players, should get SJU to a consistently competitive level.
Suspect SJ may only win 15 games or so this season and have an equally challenging time next year with likely loss of top two players. Upset a couple of solid teams along the way, play an attractive style to attract recruits and I do see light at end of tunnel. If not, CMA was well worth the risk.[/quote]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post[/quote]
I am, but need a re-read to find something to argue about!! I'll get back to (or is at at) you.:lol: :lol:[/quote]
I've come to expect nothing less from you lol
We just don't have the guys yet to beat the Vermonts. Playing about as bad as we possibly could, we still took them down to the final shot. Lamb made some crazy shots and it didn't seem to matter if he was defended or not. Never easy to lose winnable games, but he shot a long mid range to get the lead. IMO you let opponents shoot that all day. Low percentage shot and players at that level make that what, like 30% of the time? If that? I think we already have rock solid players in Champ, Roberts, Dunn, and hopefully Steere. Unfortunately Heron and Fig are gone after this year, but we have Posh coming in and hopefully another real big with a wide body who can play.
I'm not saying CMA is definitely the answer...but it's asking a lot to beat a veteran tourney team like Vermont very early in the season with our starting PG playing his first game and Steere on the bench till December. If CMA gets several top 100 type guys in here and we still see games like that, then you can get concerned.[/quote]
The game came down to one shot and were not ready nor have the guys to compete with “the Vermont’s”[/quote]
And if we did miss a ton of foul shots some would have us contending for BE title. I’m a moderation guy and was disappointed we lost for sure. This staff and group of kids are easy to root for, knowing this will be a challenging season. To conclude anything at this point is nutty. CMA is clearly experienced, dedicated leader who seems to have ability to promote nurturing, no nonsense culture. Over the next few seasons he’ll have to get quality recruits of course, but right now the hire appears very promising. At game Saturday a common observation from hoops guys was SJU has a legit coach, who if he gets good players, should get SJU to a consistently competitive level.
Suspect SJ may only win 15 games or so this season and have an equally challenging time next year with likely loss of top two players. Upset a couple of solid teams along the way, play an attractive style to attract recruits and I do see light at end of tunnel. If not, CMA was well worth the risk.[/quote]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post
[/quote]I am, but need a re-read to find something to argue about!! I'll get back to (or is at at) you.:lol: :lol:[/quote]
I've come to expect nothing less from you lol
[quote="Monte" post=363789]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post[/quote]
Just a couple of points. The game has changed entirely since Louie so while I get the comparison it's like trying to compare a Commodore 64 to Watson. Now you win two ways, bringing in great talent and rolling out the balls (see Lavin, Mullin, Jarvis) or bringing in good talent and coaching extremely well. The latter seems to be CMA's MO. Agree it's worked to some level at every stop but it's not the preferred method for many fans looking for instant gratification that meets their expectations rather than realistic expectations.
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post
[/quote]Just a couple of points. The game has changed entirely since Louie so while I get the comparison it's like trying to compare a Commodore 64 to Watson. Now you win two ways, bringing in great talent and rolling out the balls (see Lavin, Mullin, Jarvis) or bringing in good talent and coaching extremely well. The latter seems to be CMA's MO. Agree it's worked to some level at every stop but it's not the preferred method for many fans looking for instant gratification that meets their expectations rather than realistic expectations.
[quote="austour" post=363798][quote="Monte" post=363789]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post[/quote]
Just a couple of points. The game has changed entirely since Louie so while I get the comparison it's like trying to compare a Commodore 64 to Watson. Now you win two ways, bringing in great talent and rolling out the balls (see Lavin, Mullin, Jarvis) or bringing in good talent and coaching extremely well. The latter seems to be CMA's MO. Agree it's worked to some level at every stop but it's not the preferred method for many fans looking for instant gratification that meets their expectations rather than realistic expectations.[/quote]
Agree completely with the two methodologies; truth is the instant gratification fans you reference have been and will be waiting a long time because we never have and never will be a destination for great talent for several reasons, not the least of which is we don't pay well. Nova to me is the ultimate model, really good players well coached and willing to buy into a total team concept. No knock, just reality, it took Wright a decade or so to get there. Again, absolutely no knock on him, a great coach but Nova stuck with him to go from a consistently good program incrementally to a great one at the national level.
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post
[/quote]Just a couple of points. The game has changed entirely since Louie so while I get the comparison it's like trying to compare a Commodore 64 to Watson. Now you win two ways, bringing in great talent and rolling out the balls (see Lavin, Mullin, Jarvis) or bringing in good talent and coaching extremely well. The latter seems to be CMA's MO. Agree it's worked to some level at every stop but it's not the preferred method for many fans looking for instant gratification that meets their expectations rather than realistic expectations.[/quote]
Agree completely with the two methodologies; truth is the instant gratification fans you reference have been and will be waiting a long time because we never have and never will be a destination for great talent for several reasons, not the least of which is we don't pay well. Nova to me is the ultimate model, really good players well coached and willing to buy into a total team concept. No knock, just reality, it took Wright a decade or so to get there. Again, absolutely no knock on him, a great coach but Nova stuck with him to go from a consistently good program incrementally to a great one at the national level.
[quote="Logen" post=363802][quote="austour" post=363798][quote="Monte" post=363789]
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post[/quote]
Just a couple of points. The game has changed entirely since Louie so while I get the comparison it's like trying to compare a Commodore 64 to Watson. Now you win two ways, bringing in great talent and rolling out the balls (see Lavin, Mullin, Jarvis) or bringing in good talent and coaching extremely well. The latter seems to be CMA's MO. Agree it's worked to some level at every stop but it's not the preferred method for many fans looking for instant gratification that meets their expectations rather than realistic expectations.[/quote]
Agree completely with the two methodologies; truth is the instant gratification fans you reference have been and will be waiting a long time because we never have and never will be a destination for great talent for several reasons, not the least of which is we don't pay well. Nova to me is the ultimate model, really good players well coached and willing to buy into a total team concept. No knock, just reality, it took Wright a decade or so to get there. Again, absolutely no knock on him, a great coach but Nova stuck with him to go from a consistently good program incrementally to a great one at the national level.[/quote]
Yeah, I don't disagree that it would take a near miracle for SJU to become a tier 1 destination for the top recruits so system 2 works for me too.
Just a point re Wright, he did get to the Sweet 16 or further in years 4, 5, 7 and 8 and has only missed the tourney once since 2005. He just didn't start totally dominating the BE until after realignment.
Would he have had the same dominating results if the football schools were still in the conference? Probably not.
Just shared this with my SJU text group. CMA does not have to be a brilliant coaching mind to win here. IMO Louie wasn't, and he did pretty damn well here. If CMA consistently brings in good talent, gets them to play hard and has a good enough game plan, like Louie he will win here. He's done it at every other stop, no reason to believe he won't do it here. Logen I hope you're reading this post
[/quote]Just a couple of points. The game has changed entirely since Louie so while I get the comparison it's like trying to compare a Commodore 64 to Watson. Now you win two ways, bringing in great talent and rolling out the balls (see Lavin, Mullin, Jarvis) or bringing in good talent and coaching extremely well. The latter seems to be CMA's MO. Agree it's worked to some level at every stop but it's not the preferred method for many fans looking for instant gratification that meets their expectations rather than realistic expectations.[/quote]
Agree completely with the two methodologies; truth is the instant gratification fans you reference have been and will be waiting a long time because we never have and never will be a destination for great talent for several reasons, not the least of which is we don't pay well. Nova to me is the ultimate model, really good players well coached and willing to buy into a total team concept. No knock, just reality, it took Wright a decade or so to get there. Again, absolutely no knock on him, a great coach but Nova stuck with him to go from a consistently good program incrementally to a great one at the national level.[/quote]
Yeah, I don't disagree that it would take a near miracle for SJU to become a tier 1 destination for the top recruits so system 2 works for me too.
Just a point re Wright, he did get to the Sweet 16 or further in years 4, 5, 7 and 8 and has only missed the tourney once since 2005. He just didn't start totally dominating the BE until after realignment.
Would he have had the same dominating results if the football schools were still in the conference? Probably not.