(POST-GAME) DePaul, Sat. Jan. 12, 6p, CBS SN / 970 AM

With SJU's usual shortage of big men it leads to excess fouling underneath which affects team strategy because of SJU's short bench. But wait till next year and Caraher takes the court. When will this team concentrate on this year.
The other main problem is the disappointment of Heron. I never saw him play prior to this year but based on his achievements at Auburn I feel he has not lived up to his potential. Yesterday with Ponds out was his chance to step up. Thank God for LJ.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=314779]Must say, having seen Heron a lot up here in Ct & on TV at Auburn, I am very surprised by his struggles. Really pressing & hopefully gets back in sync soon.[/quote]

Just a theory, but watching him defending and fighting for rebounds against legitimate power forwards, game after game, has to sap some energy, both mental and physical. Interesting also is that Tarik Turner, in an early game, noted that if Heron doesn't beat his man off the first step, he has trouble getting separation.
 
It happens with every St. John's coach, going back to the Jarvis' years. I remember criticizing him earlier in his stay. Didn't get called a vulture but was attacked until everybody wanted him gone. Look, Mullin has the best starting lineup in the Big East,.unfortunately no height and bench. Clearly his fault. Let's face it though if he fails to make the NCAA Tournament this year it may be time to look elsewhere.
As far as refs putting the screws to Mullin it may be due to his constant and I do mean constant complaining. Take it from someone who was thrown out of a major baseball game at Hofstra.Not guilty of course.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=314779]Must say, having seen Heron a lot up here in Ct & on TV at Auburn, I am very surprised by his struggles. Really pressing & hopefully gets back in sync soon.[/quote]

Good athlete but not superior athlete. Good shooter but not great shooter. Strong for his size but having to match up with bigger guys I think is frustrating him that he is getting his shots blocked and altered. You would think he would be able to use his quickness more when matched up with bigger guys. The problem with that is his handle is not really tight enough for him to get dribble penetration consistently.
 
I don't think anybody is minimizing what Ponds means to this team. He's one of the best players in the country for a reason and St. John's is very good when he's on the floor. But I don't see how the coaches are going to be able to just fix the defensive inefficiencies and lack of rebounding this season. Here are the facts:
1. You are wasting 5 scholarships at the current moment. The team chose the transfer game over HS recruits again (Caraher & Wright), plus Mullin has decided Roberts & Earlington aren't even worth 5 mpg. And Dixon ditched them. That leaves them with 8 "useful" players (even though Williams barely sees the court.
2. We talked about this the entire summer. Mullin's lack of urgency in adding a big man was going to bite them and it is. Outside of Keita, you have nobody down low. You can talk about Clark and Simon and Trimble, but none of them have height and they aren't going to be able to stop bigger teams from dominating inside.
3. Listen, this isn't new. St. John's can't rebound. The rebounding disparities say it all.
SHU 46 - SJU 30
G'town 47 - SJU 32
Villanova 39 - SJU 28
DePaul 43 - SJU 34
Outside of the Marquette game, they have been dominated on the boards in each game. You don't just fix that. Mullin has to own the fact that he once again ignored adding big men on the roster and St. John's is going to pay the price for that stubbornness. You can give me the "transition game" speech all you want. Teams still need to have guys with height on their roster. For some moronic reason, Chris doesn't see the need for them. It's very frustrating considering every SJU fan on this board knew it was going to be a problem and they once again did nothing to address it.

I really hope they bounce back against Creighton and obviously if and when Ponds comes back, they will be alright. But I just wonder what the ceiling on this group really is without defense and rebounds.
 
[quote="JackofVirginia" post=314781][quote="NCJohnnie" post=314746]As Monte so aptly put it, as a St. John's fan you learn to hope for the best but expect the worst. I just find it strange that Clark said team knew for a few days that Ponds wouldn't play and Coach said he just found out yesterday. We will not beat many Big East teams at home or away without Shamorie. Hoping Creighton is one we can beat at home w/o him if need be.[/quote]


If I am not mistaken Creighton has a few big men who can hurt us inside, plus they pass very well and are well coached.[/quote]

How is Creighton well coached? They are 1-3 in conference.
 
[quote="ron " post=314782][quote="Paultzman" post=314779]Must say, having seen Heron a lot up here in Ct & on TV at Auburn, I am very surprised by his struggles. Really pressing & hopefully gets back in sync soon.[/quote]

Totally agree. He looked so good early on. I wonder if he feels it is on him to make up for the team's deficiencies and he is pressing.[/quote]

He is playing out of position very often in Mullin's positionless system. At Auburn he played off guard and even led the team in assists in some games. Here he has no bigs to support the team and unfortunately forces things with the ball in his hands. Sometimes that is the sign of a player anticipating one foot out the door but his defense has been atrocious which places him in foul trouble more often. Clark is also a poor defender against bigger players. Hoping Keita makes a difference and Trimble plays fewer minutes because he has no offensive impact whatsoever in any game. We are still lucky to have gotten Heron and Figgy at the late in the recruiting cycle. Without them this season would have been Mullin's last.
 
The commentary by many is that we are an average team without Ponds. Take Howard away from Marquette, and they are below average. Just look at how they did here when he was nullified. Take Govan away from Georgetown, or Paschall or Boothe from Nova All average without their stars. Not the staff's fault. Few teams have multiple stars. Only the Dukes of the world have MCDAA on the bench.

The other theme is that the Nova and Hall games were ours for the taking, because we had double digit leads. I never saw those games under control. Nova erased an 8 point lead in a minute. The 3 ball and the clock changed everything. Even double digit leads disappear quickly. Good teams often wake up in crunch time, and turn up the pressure. We use a lot of energy to build up leads, and seem to have little in reserve when the good teams apply pressure. I don't have the answer. You can't make trades or bring up someone from the farm system in college basketball.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=314788][quote="Paultzman" post=314779]Must say, having seen Heron a lot up here in Ct & on TV at Auburn, I am very surprised by his struggles. Really pressing & hopefully gets back in sync soon.[/quote]

Good athlete but not superior athlete. Good shooter but not great shooter. Strong for his size but having to match up with bigger guys I think is frustrating him that he is getting his shots blocked and altered. You would think he would be able to use his quickness more when matched up with bigger guys. The problem with that is his handle is not really tight enough for him to get dribble penetration consistently.[/quote]
I think that is what the NBA scouts told him.
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=314784][quote="Class of 72" post=314774][quote="rawdognyc" post=314707]It was only a matter of time before the circling vultures of this board decided to land.
We lost because we didn't have the best player in the league and one of the best in the country playing. Hard to make up the 34 points between scoring and assists he's responsible for.
Mullin is right, if we're gonna get called for bs fouls anyway, might as well foul them hard.
My only hope is that Ponds returns for our next game so that the trolls can go back under their bridge.[/quote]

You remind of the hunter who shot at pigeons for the fun of it and then tries to cover it up by claiming he thought they were vultures. The irony in your dimwitted comment above is that vultures circle the dead or dying.
I said in my very first post in this game thread " who is going to make up Ponds points". Obviously there had to be a better plan by the coaches. That plan would have involved a defensive tweak. That tweak should not have been 6'3 Trimble guarding a 6'9 forward man to man. One would think that defense would involved putting more pressure on DePaul before the last 3 minutes and before we lost two starters. One would think that tweak would have involved a zone of some type to minimize the 2 DePaul forwards that torched us for 45 points.
Your comments only prove coach Carnesecca right right. One week ago we were peacocks. Today we are feather dusters.
You seem to prefer vulture feathers.
As for Mullin's comments. Impetuous at best and irresponsible at minimum for a guy who doesn't like losing. I think AD Cragg cringed when he heard the comments. His arrogance does the team no favors and unfairly puts his players under scrutiny with any type of hard fouls.
Without Slick this is just an average Big East team. Without bench support we are a weak team. Without coaches who can adjust to the scenario we are St. John's.
Have a nice day.[/quote]

I will have a nice day because I'm not some miserable 70 year old man that repeats the same crap. You think you're clever and witty. You're not. You also must think we give a crap that "your friend" is a doctor. Impressive... Who gives a shit? Try not to have a miserable day. I can't imagine that to be possible though.[/quote]

You see my thin skinned critic you come on here all tough young stud thinking you can beat up on old men but your original missive was more balls than brains. Since I and others were addressing the DePaul game you got busy addressing fans. After I undressed you and proved your balls are no bigger than old men's balls you claim not to give a shit. This was our first meeting with DePaul so not sure what was repetitive about the game analysis other than you think everyone is a vulture, miserable old men, etc. Try to stick to the game at hand and what you see on the court and bench because the selection committee doesn't give a crap about your personal feelings being hurt. Mullin's words about advocating playing dirty will come back to haunt him. Stay tuned.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=314798][quote="rawdognyc" post=314784][quote="Class of 72" post=314774][quote="rawdognyc" post=314707]It was only a matter of time before the circling vultures of this board decided to land.
We lost because we didn't have the best player in the league and one of the best in the country playing. Hard to make up the 34 points between scoring and assists he's responsible for.
Mullin is right, if we're gonna get called for bs fouls anyway, might as well foul them hard.
My only hope is that Ponds returns for our next game so that the trolls can go back under their bridge.[/quote]

You remind of the hunter who shot at pigeons for the fun of it and then tries to cover it up by claiming he thought they were vultures. The irony in your dimwitted comment above is that vultures circle the dead or dying.
I said in my very first post in this game thread " who is going to make up Ponds points". Obviously there had to be a better plan by the coaches. That plan would have involved a defensive tweak. That tweak should not have been 6'3 Trimble guarding a 6'9 forward man to man. One would think that defense would involved putting more pressure on DePaul before the last 3 minutes and before we lost two starters. One would think that tweak would have involved a zone of some type to minimize the 2 DePaul forwards that torched us for 45 points.
Your comments only prove coach Carnesecca right right. One week ago we were peacocks. Today we are feather dusters.
You seem to prefer vulture feathers.
As for Mullin's comments. Impetuous at best and irresponsible at minimum for a guy who doesn't like losing. I think AD Cragg cringed when he heard the comments. His arrogance does the team no favors and unfairly puts his players under scrutiny with any type of hard fouls.
Without Slick this is just an average Big East team. Without bench support we are a weak team. Without coaches who can adjust to the scenario we are St. John's.
Have a nice day.[/quote]

I will have a nice day because I'm not some miserable 70 year old man that repeats the same crap. You think you're clever and witty. You're not. You also must think we give a crap that "your friend" is a doctor. Impressive... Who gives a shit? Try not to have a miserable day. I can't imagine that to be possible though.[/quote]

You see my thin skinned critic you come on here all tough young stud thinking you can beat up on old men but your original missive was more balls than brains. Since I and others were addressing the DePaul game you got busy addressing fans. After I undressed you and proved your balls are no bigger than old men's balls you claim not to give a shit. This was our first meeting with DePaul so not sure what was repetitive about the game analysis other than you think everyone is a vulture, miserable old men, etc. Try to stick to the game at hand and what you see on the court and bench because the selection committee doesn't give a crap about your personal feelings being hurt. Mullin's words about advocating playing dirty will come back to haunt him. Stay tuned.[/quote]


Incompetent coaching staff.
Not enough size.
Not enough depth.
Lather rinse repeat.

We get it.
We are St. John's
 
Just curious, specifically what were Mullin’s comments? Where did he offer them?
 
In all the hand-wringing over yesterday's loss, what has gone un-mentioned is the nice tribute the school did for Solly Walker. Prior to the game, the athletic department's academic study hall was re-named in his memory. The University also celebrated the creation of the Solly Walker Academic Support Services Fund, developed and funded by the Shannon Family and dedicated to providing financial support for the continued success of St. John's student-athletes on and off the fields of competition.

In the second half, during one of the timeouts, the Walker family all came out to be recognized and receive a plaque from AD Cragg. The family looked genuinely honored for Solly to be recognized and they got a standing ovation from most of the fans there. Well done St. John's!
 
[quote="Logen" post=314731]I did not see the game last night, I had a speaking engagement so I DVR'd it. Saw the score and box score and came on the board to read the pre-game thread to find out why Ponds did not play. Have not read any other game or post-game comments because I know how they will read. My thoughts went somewhere else and are really reflective of my age and the era I grew up in versus the "Me" generation.
I am not naïve to say this was an absolute because it was not, but "back in the day" team mattered, teammates mattered, commitments mattered. This culture was certainly taken advantage of by those in "authority" and one can make an argument that looking out for No. 1 is perfectly justified. As much as I hate to say it, I would have a hard arguing against that. But I couldn't help thinking that IMO, and it is only an opinion, we have had several sabotaged teams in the last few years. Jakaar Sampson hijacked one season playing selfishly for a pro contract, LoVett quit on the team last year, and while this season is far from over I couldn't help but think if Mikey Dixon really thought he was a BE player last night would have been his opportunity to prove it. I am not judging him, it is the world he grew up in and he has every right to do what he did but for an old fart like me the "modern" sports culture is slowly but surely eroding my interest. I understand we very well could have lost if Dixon were here, we gave up 48 points in the 2nd half and neither Ponds or Dixon would have likely changed that but if either were available we would have undoubtedly scored more than 71.
But honestly, it goes deeper for me than a lost game. You see in college football now, some players, and it is still rare, don't play in bowl games because of the risk of injury affecting their draft status or ending their NFL aspirations. IMO, it is only a matter of time before players do like LoVett did and "shut it down" rather than risk further injury no matter the extent of their injury.
Free agency has been a factor in my losing interest in pro sports, college has moved to its own version of roster uncertainty.[/quote]

In my opinion, the whole transfer game is a two way street. You wish for and want to see loyalty from players, and hope they have that team first mentality. But you also have to expect that same loyalty from the schools and coaches as well. Unfortunately, none of us know what exactly is said or promised to players during the recruiting process. When our coaches sat down with Dixon, I'm sure they had their plans and ideas for him all laid out, and he was promised X amount of playing time and was told how he fit into the 'big picture'. However, for whatever reason(s), those plans/ideas never materialized, and he decided to move on. This is more than likely Dixon's last opportunity to play competitive basketball, so you can't blame him for not wanting to waste that opportunity on the bench. Another example is Jalen Hurts. Two years ago he was the starting QB in the national championship game. After he plays bad in one half, he gets benched and he's not really ever heard from again (although he did stay at Alabama to finish and is now looking for a new school as a transfer). Where was the loyalty from Saban? If coaches are ready to move on to the next man up, why can't players? As far as sitting out bowl games or shutting it down. I personally completely understand and respect their decisions. Nick Bosa is going to be a top 5 pick in the draft, and if I'm him, I do not do anything that puts that at risk. Many of these players view college athletics as a means to a greater end. It is sort of like an entry level job.
 
Nothing really new in this story other than the fact we are getting some coverage on ESPN site.

www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25745626/shamorie-ponds-st-john-red-storm
 
Nothing really new in this story other than the fact we are getting some coverage on ESPN site.

www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25745626/shamorie-ponds-st-john-red-storm
 
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