(POST-GAME) DePaul, Sat. Jan. 12, 6p, CBS SN / 970 AM

[quote="Ray Morgan" post=314755][quote="Rehobie" post=314742]This is a poorly constructed team. Rudderless without Ponds. Not one guard who can put the ball on the floor. Trimble has yet to put two dribbles together this season. Big men who the staff are reluctant to put in the game. You recruited them! Looks to me Roberts and Earlington are gone. Maybe coach too.[/quote]

If you know your history, this is the way SJU basketball has always been. Mullin averaged 39 minutes a game as a junior and senior. I'm guessing Mark Jackson did 2 years later. Both those teams would have looked rudderless without them, because everything ran through them. For Muliin, there was no shot clock and no 3 point line to defend, so less energy had to be exerted. Lucky for those teams, both were iron men. Regarding possible transfers beyond Dixon, our track record indicates we don't have much to worry about. Outside of grad transfer Owens, the rest of the departures have contributed little at lower quality programs.[/quote]

Sealy almost always played close to 40 minutes, too.

And again, our bench collectively, actually played two more minutes then Depaul's, so it's not like other teams go that deep either.
 
[quote="Monte" post=314741][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=314738][quote="we are sju" post=314736]Was at a family party. DVR'd the game but after I saw score did not watch. I know Ponds missed game but other board sort of hinting about possible Lovett repeat?
Don't want to try to read through all the misery regarding last night's game so what is the basis of the Ponds / Lovett thing, or is there none? Could someone summarize?
Much appreciated.[/quote]. apparently Ponds was quoted after Nova game that his back was sore . No reason to not accept that ... he does take a beating going to the basket and landing in the floor hard ..[/quote]

In order for him to miss a crucial game like this, I would have expected more than a “sore back” explanation. The fact that he didn’t even suit up and give it a shot, makes it all the more concerning. Regardless of whether his DNP was truly a result of a sore back, or something else.[/quote]

I think it was a sore back AND something else.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=314760][quote="Ray Morgan" post=314755][quote="Rehobie" post=314742]This is a poorly constructed team. Rudderless without Ponds. Not one guard who can put the ball on the floor. Trimble has yet to put two dribbles together this season. Big men who the staff are reluctant to put in the game. You recruited them! Looks to me Roberts and Earlington are gone. Maybe coach too.[/quote]

If you know your history, this is the way SJU basketball has always been. Mullin averaged 39 minutes a game as a junior and senior. I'm guessing Mark Jackson did 2 years later. Both those teams would have looked rudderless without them, because everything ran through them. For Muliin, there was no shot clock and no 3 point line to defend, so less energy had to be exerted. Lucky for those teams, both were iron men. Regarding possible transfers beyond Dixon, our track record indicates we don't have much to worry about. Outside of grad transfer Owens, the rest of the departures have contributed little at lower quality programs.[/quote]

Sealy almost always played close to 40 minutes, too.

And again, our bench collectively, actually played two more minutes then Depaul's, so it's not like other teams go that deep either.[/quote]
You miss the most important point in that our bench scores ZERO POINTS most games. Our bench is a non factor. Any fouls trouble and we are ripe for the taking.
 
[quote="Monte" post=314758][quote="ctstorm" post=314754][quote="Monte" post=314753]We were 10 pt favs with Ponds, and 6 pt favs without him. Clearly the oddsmakers and the betters(who cause the lines to shift), severly underestimated Ponds’ importance to our team.[/quote]

I think his importance is more than the stat sheet. It's his amazing knack to make big plays at big times seemingly without effort. This transcends talent so the notion that some other talented guy should be able to make up for his absence is wrong-headed IMO.[/quote]

No one was going to step in to Ponds’ shoes. My hope was that maybe LJ, Heron or Clark would have stepped up with a 20 pt game, and collectively we’d be able to do enough to come away with a W. Didn’t happen.[/quote]

Really the game would have been completely different if Clark's shots were falling. He shot 1-7 from 3 point range, and 6-16 for the game. He had some wide open looks that he simply did not hit, which he usually does. To me, that is the game right there.
 
[quote="Monte" post=314741][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=314738][quote="we are sju" post=314736]Was at a family party. DVR'd the game but after I saw score did not watch. I know Ponds missed game but other board sort of hinting about possible Lovett repeat?
Don't want to try to read through all the misery regarding last night's game so what is the basis of the Ponds / Lovett thing, or is there none? Could someone summarize?
Much appreciated.[/quote]. apparently Ponds was quoted after Nova game that his back was sore . No reason to not accept that ... he does take a beating going to the basket and landing in the floor hard ..[/quote]

In order for him to miss a crucial game like this, I would have expected more than a “sore back” explanation. The fact that he didn’t even suit up and give it a shot, makes it all the more concerning. Regardless of whether his DNP was truly a result of a sore back, or something else.[/quote]

Agreed. And if it was truly a sore back issue (and nothing more), sitting out will not exactly endear him to NBA scouts, who know the absolute pounding a 6'1" guard is going to get in the League.
 
With Ponds in the lineup and playing 38 minutes we were blown out by DePaul by 17 at Carnesecca last season. In that game 6' 11" 240 Lbs. Croatian Grad Transfer Marin Maric dominated us inside and scored 25 points and had 11 boards. That night we could not handle DePaul's inside game and we were out rebounded 46 to 30.

Fast forward one year, back at Carnesecca Arena and this time with no Ponds, DePaul again dominated us on the inside. 6' 9" 260 Lbs. Senior Transfer Femi Olujobi scored 27 Points and had 8 rebounds. Again we were out rebounded as a team 43 to 34.

Not to minimize Ponds immense talent or tremendous value to our team but last year we played three times without Ponds and played pretty well each time. We beat Butler at home in double OT and lost close games to Seton Hall and Providence on the road. Last night we did not play well without Ponds and clearly missed him, but getting dominated on the inside was not because Ponds didn't play.

For whatever reason the team did not play particularly well last night. One of the strengths of our team is turning over our opponent and scoring in transition. This did not happen last night. DePaul is the first team that had less than double digit turnovers against us this season. Possibly because of foul trouble and somewhat related to the way the game was called we could not sustain our intensity and create the type of open court game that we thrive in.

Like last year we did not match up well with DePaul's size and they exploited us down low and on the boards. Additionally without transition points we went back to relying on shooting the three, but they often were contested threes and they were not falling for us.

Going forward we will need to play with more intensity, stay out of foul trouble, find a way to compete better on the boards and spread the floor better than we did last night. Getting Ponds back is very key but playing at our best is even more key.
 
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[quote="ghostzapper" post=314767]With Ponds in the lineup and playing 38 minutes we were blown out by DePaul by 17 at Carnesecca last season. In that game 6' 11" 240 Lbs. Croatian Grad Transfer Marin Maric dominated us inside and scored 25 points and had 11 boards. That night we could not handle DePaul's inside game and we were out rebounded 46 to 30.

Fast forward one year, back at Carnesecca Arena and this time with no Ponds, DePaul again dominated us on the inside. 6' 9" 260 Lbs. Senior Transfer Femi Olujobi scored 27 Points and had 8 rebounds. Again we were out rebounded as a team 43 to 34.

Not to minimize Ponds immense talent or tremendous value to our team but last year we played three times without Ponds and played pretty well each time. We beat Butler at home in double OT and lost close games to Seton Hall and Providence on the road. Last night we did not play well without Ponds and clearly missed him, but getting dominated on the inside was not because Ponds didn't play.

For whatever reason the team did not play particularly well last night. One of the strengths of our team is turning over our opponent and scoring in transition. This did not happen last night. DePaul is the first team that had less than double digit turnovers against us this season. Possibly because of foul trouble and somewhat related to the way the game was called we could not sustain our intensity and create the type of open court game that we thrive in.

Like last year we did not match up well with DePaul's size and they exploited us down low and on the boards. Additionally without transition points we went back to relying on shooting the three, but they often were contested threes and they were not falling for us.

Going forward we will need to play with more intensity, stay out of foul trouble, find a way to compete better on the boards and spread the floor better than we did last night. Getting Ponds back is very key but playing at our best is even more key.[/quote]

Ponds is the Big East leader in steals. Maybe that's why we didn't force double digit turnovers?
 
I can’t believe we’re in this spot at 2-3 but you clearly see the desperation on Mullins face. While Ponds May have missed the game with a sore back I’m wondering if there is something else in play as well.
 
[quote="Room112" post=314764][quote="Monte" post=314758][quote="ctstorm" post=314754][quote="Monte" post=314753]We were 10 pt favs with Ponds, and 6 pt favs without him. Clearly the oddsmakers and the betters(who cause the lines to shift), severly underestimated Ponds’ importance to our team.[/quote]

I think his importance is more than the stat sheet. It's his amazing knack to make big plays at big times seemingly without effort. This transcends talent so the notion that some other talented guy should be able to make up for his absence is wrong-headed IMO.[/quote]

No one was going to step in to Ponds’ shoes. My hope was that maybe LJ, Heron or Clark would have stepped up with a 20 pt game, and collectively we’d be able to do enough to come away with a W. Didn’t happen.[/quote]

Really the game would have been completely different if Clark's shots were falling. He shot 1-7 from 3 point range, and 6-16 for the game. He had some wide open looks that he simply did not hit, which he usually does. To me, that is the game right there.[/quote]

On some of his shots he didn’t seem quite set. They seemed a little rushed which is oftentimes the difference between a hit and a miss. Think he may have felt pressure to make up for Ponds’ absence, and may have been forcing shots just a little. Don’t mean this to sound as a criticism, just a possible reason for why his shots weren’t falling.
 
We were out coached, plain and simple. Laito stretched his defense and forced us to take contested three's or drive the lane. One inside they smothered us. The tempo was slowed that played into DePaul's hands. The crushed us on the boards.. Ref's were brutal but we had opportunities to win this game.
Mullin needs to STOP chirping at the refs all game long. He constantly complains about what happens on the far end of the court.If he put that energy into coaching maybe we could have been more successful. He becomes a town crier and when a real moment occurs where he should complain he is dismissed as "Just Chris being Chris"
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=314707]It was only a matter of time before the circling vultures of this board decided to land.
We lost because we didn't have the best player in the league and one of the best in the country playing. Hard to make up the 34 points between scoring and assists he's responsible for.
Mullin is right, if we're gonna get called for bs fouls anyway, might as well foul them hard.
My only hope is that Ponds returns for our next game so that the trolls can go back under their bridge.[/quote]

You remind of the hunter who shot at pigeons for the fun of it and then tries to cover it up by claiming he thought they were vultures. The irony in your dimwitted comment above is that vultures circle the dead or dying.
I said in my very first post in this game thread " who is going to make up Ponds points". Obviously there had to be a better plan by the coaches. That plan would have involved a defensive tweak. That tweak should not have been 6'3 Trimble guarding a 6'9 forward man to man. One would think that defense would involved putting more pressure on DePaul before the last 3 minutes and before we lost two starters. One would think that tweak would have involved a zone of some type to minimize the 2 DePaul forwards that torched us for 45 points.
Your comments only prove coach Carnesecca right right. One week ago we were peacocks. Today we are feather dusters.
You seem to prefer vulture feathers.
As for Mullin's comments. Impetuous at best and irresponsible at minimum for a guy who doesn't like losing. I think AD Cragg cringed when he heard the comments. His arrogance does the team no favors and unfairly puts his players under scrutiny with any type of hard fouls.
Without Slick this is just an average Big East team. Without bench support we are a weak team. Without coaches who can adjust to the scenario we are St. John's.
Have a nice day.
 
SJU61982 wrote: Ponds is the Big East leader in steals. Maybe that's why we didn't force double digit turnovers?

Definitely missing Ponds steals was a contributing factor to the lack of turnovers we created but I also believe we were far too passive as a team last night. I don't know if it was due to the way the game was being called, a letdown after the tough Georgetown and Villanova road games or something else but there seemed to be a lack of intensity with our on court persona last night.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=314758][quote="ctstorm" post=314754][quote="Monte" post=314753]We were 10 pt favs with Ponds, and 6 pt favs without him. Clearly the oddsmakers and the betters(who cause the lines to shift), severly underestimated Ponds’ importance to our team.[/quote]

I think his importance is more than the stat sheet. It's his amazing knack to make big plays at big times seemingly without effort. This transcends talent so the notion that some other talented guy should be able to make up for his absence is wrong-headed IMO.[/quote]

No one was going to step in to Ponds’ shoes. My hope was that maybe LJ, Heron or Clark would have stepped up with a 20 pt game, and collectively we’d be able to do enough to come away with a W. Didn’t happen.[/quote]


I agree entirely and I think that LJ did to a large extent. What I was trying to say (poorly) is that his intangibles were missed more than his numbers.

As someone else pointed out Clark picked a bad game to have a bad game. Heron is a mystery.
 
[quote="ctstorm" post=314776][quote="Monte" post=314758][quote="ctstorm" post=314754][quote="Monte" post=314753]We were 10 pt favs with Ponds, and 6 pt favs without him. Clearly the oddsmakers and the betters(who cause the lines to shift), severly underestimated Ponds’ importance to our team.[/quote]

I think his importance is more than the stat sheet. It's his amazing knack to make big plays at big times seemingly without effort. This transcends talent so the notion that some other talented guy should be able to make up for his absence is wrong-headed IMO.[/quote]

No one was going to step in to Ponds’ shoes. My hope was that maybe LJ, Heron or Clark would have stepped up with a 20 pt game, and collectively we’d be able to do enough to come away with a W. Didn’t happen.[/quote]


I agree entirely and I think that LJ did to a large extent. What I was trying to say (poorly) is that his intangibles were missed more than his numbers.

As someone else pointed out Clark picked a bad game to have a bad game. Heron is a mystery.[/quote]

What I was trying to say(poorly lol), was that I agree with you. Just having Ponds on the court, regardless of his stats, changes our team at both ends of the court in a huge way. Not only is the other team’s best defender forced to cover him, but the other 4 defenders usually have one eye on him. Which allows out other guys to float a little bit more and find holes on the peremiter. Our offense is also far more uptempo with him on the court. Unfortunately we have no “Scottie Pippen” on our team.
 
Look, the bottom line is we need Ponds healthy and playing for this team to reach it full potential. Yes, this team has flaws, but when Ponds is healthy and dominating the game he alleviates many of those flaws with what he brings to the table. The problem is that Ponds is not a big kid and he seems to be fragile player. He misses games to injury every year. This is not a knock on Ponds. His body is just not able to handle all those minutes and the punishment of a physical Big East. How he is going to do in the NBA is beyond me. Again , I am not knocking him. He’s a fabulous player. Physically, it just seems like he’s one these players whose body just doesn’t hold up to too much physicality. Odell Beckham is the same for the Giants. He’s never played a full season. Some type of injury always arises. Beckham also, while a fabulous talent is not big guy physically. If ponds can’t play we can’t be successful. But, there are many teams who if you took their best player away would not be the same team. Kansas St was a top 15 team until they lost their best player Dean Wade. It happens, but if we don’t have him healthy for the rest of the season it will be a lost year.
 
Must say, having seen Heron a lot up here in Ct & on TV at Auburn, I am very surprised by his struggles. Really pressing & hopefully gets back in sync soon.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=314746]As Monte so aptly put it, as a St. John's fan you learn to hope for the best but expect the worst. I just find it strange that Clark said team knew for a few days that Ponds wouldn't play and Coach said he just found out yesterday. We will not beat many Big East teams at home or away without Shamorie. Hoping Creighton is one we can beat at home w/o him if need be.[/quote]


If I am not mistaken Creighton has a few big men who can hurt us inside, plus they pass very well and are well coached.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=314779]Must say, having seen Heron a lot up here in Ct & on TV at Auburn, I am very surprised by his struggles. Really pressing & hopefully gets back in sync soon.[/quote]

Totally agree. He looked so good early on. I wonder if he feels it is on him to make up for the team's deficiencies and he is pressing.
 
[quote="JackofVirginia" post=314781][quote="NCJohnnie" post=314746]As Monte so aptly put it, as a St. John's fan you learn to hope for the best but expect the worst. I just find it strange that Clark said team knew for a few days that Ponds wouldn't play and Coach said he just found out yesterday. We will not beat many Big East teams at home or away without Shamorie. Hoping Creighton is one we can beat at home w/o him if need be.[/quote]


If I am not mistaken Creighton has a few big men who can hurt us inside, plus they pass very well and are well coached.[/quote]

You are correct. They currently have what we lack. Without Ponds this is a double digit loss.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=314774][quote="rawdognyc" post=314707]It was only a matter of time before the circling vultures of this board decided to land.
We lost because we didn't have the best player in the league and one of the best in the country playing. Hard to make up the 34 points between scoring and assists he's responsible for.
Mullin is right, if we're gonna get called for bs fouls anyway, might as well foul them hard.
My only hope is that Ponds returns for our next game so that the trolls can go back under their bridge.[/quote]

You remind of the hunter who shot at pigeons for the fun of it and then tries to cover it up by claiming he thought they were vultures. The irony in your dimwitted comment above is that vultures circle the dead or dying.
I said in my very first post in this game thread " who is going to make up Ponds points". Obviously there had to be a better plan by the coaches. That plan would have involved a defensive tweak. That tweak should not have been 6'3 Trimble guarding a 6'9 forward man to man. One would think that defense would involved putting more pressure on DePaul before the last 3 minutes and before we lost two starters. One would think that tweak would have involved a zone of some type to minimize the 2 DePaul forwards that torched us for 45 points.
Your comments only prove coach Carnesecca right right. One week ago we were peacocks. Today we are feather dusters.
You seem to prefer vulture feathers.
As for Mullin's comments. Impetuous at best and irresponsible at minimum for a guy who doesn't like losing. I think AD Cragg cringed when he heard the comments. His arrogance does the team no favors and unfairly puts his players under scrutiny with any type of hard fouls.
Without Slick this is just an average Big East team. Without bench support we are a weak team. Without coaches who can adjust to the scenario we are St. John's.
Have a nice day.[/quote]

I will have a nice day because I'm not some miserable 70 year old man that repeats the same crap. You think you're clever and witty. You're not. You also must think we give a crap that "your friend" is a doctor. Impressive... Who gives a shit? Try not to have a miserable day. I can't imagine that to be possible though.
 
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