(POST-GAME) DePaul, Sat. Jan. 12, 6p, CBS SN / 970 AM
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[quote="we are sju" post=314736]Was at a family party. DVR'd the game but after I saw score did not watch. I know Ponds missed game but other board sort of hinting about possible Lovett repeat?
Don't want to try to read through all the misery regarding last night's game so what is the basis of the Ponds / Lovett thing, or is there none? Could someone summarize?
Much appreciated.[/quote]. apparently Ponds was quoted after Nova game that his back was sore . No reason to not accept that ... he does take a beating going to the basket and landing in the floor hard ..
Don't want to try to read through all the misery regarding last night's game so what is the basis of the Ponds / Lovett thing, or is there none? Could someone summarize?
Much appreciated.[/quote]. apparently Ponds was quoted after Nova game that his back was sore . No reason to not accept that ... he does take a beating going to the basket and landing in the floor hard ..
[quote="Logen" post=314731]I did not see the game last night, I had a speaking engagement so I DVR'd it. Saw the score and box score and came on the board to read the pre-game thread to find out why Ponds did not play. Have not read any other game or post-game comments because I know how they will read. My thoughts went somewhere else and are really reflective of my age and the era I grew up in versus the "Me" generation.
I am not naïve to say this was an absolute because it was not, but "back in the day" team mattered, teammates mattered, commitments mattered. This culture was certainly taken advantage of by those in "authority" and one can make an argument that looking out for No. 1 is perfectly justified. As much as I hate to say it, I would have a hard arguing against that. But I couldn't help thinking that IMO, and it is only an opinion, we have had several sabotaged teams in the last few years. Jakaar Sampson hijacked one season playing selfishly for a pro contract, LoVett quit on the team last year, and while this season is far from over I couldn't help but think if Mikey Dixon really thought he was a BE player last night would have been his opportunity to prove it. I am not judging him, it is the world he grew up in and he has every right to do what he did but for an old fart like me the "modern" sports culture is slowly but surely eroding my interest. I understand we very well could have lost if Dixon were here, we gave up 48 points in the 2nd half and neither Ponds or Dixon would have likely changed that but if either were available we would have undoubtedly scored more than 71.
But honestly, it goes deeper for me than a lost game. You see in college football now, some players, and it is still rare, don't play in bowl games because of the risk of injury affecting their draft status or ending their NFL aspirations. IMO, it is only a matter of time before players do like LoVett did and "shut it down" rather than risk further injury no matter the extent of their injury.
Free agency has been a factor in my losing interest in pro sports, college has moved to its own version of roster uncertainty.[/quote]
Well said Logen. I posted something similar on another thread. I have zero interest in pro sports and am losing interest in college sports. When my daughter was in high school, I would attend all of her games and many of the games(football and basketball) of many of her guy friends who attended mostly catholic schools(IE Xavier, Regis, CTK, etc). I got more enjoyment out of watching high school games than I do out of watching pro games, and about the same amount as watching college games. I too see the shift in college sports and wonder how much longer I’ll be a fan. Not to mention the fact that the cost of attending a game in any pro sport has become insane. If you had told me 20 years ago that one day I would no longer be a diehard Yankee or Knick fan, I would would have said “you’re crazy!”. But as I mentioned, I no longer give a damn about pro sports and can see myself eventually feeling the same way about D1 college sports.
I am not naïve to say this was an absolute because it was not, but "back in the day" team mattered, teammates mattered, commitments mattered. This culture was certainly taken advantage of by those in "authority" and one can make an argument that looking out for No. 1 is perfectly justified. As much as I hate to say it, I would have a hard arguing against that. But I couldn't help thinking that IMO, and it is only an opinion, we have had several sabotaged teams in the last few years. Jakaar Sampson hijacked one season playing selfishly for a pro contract, LoVett quit on the team last year, and while this season is far from over I couldn't help but think if Mikey Dixon really thought he was a BE player last night would have been his opportunity to prove it. I am not judging him, it is the world he grew up in and he has every right to do what he did but for an old fart like me the "modern" sports culture is slowly but surely eroding my interest. I understand we very well could have lost if Dixon were here, we gave up 48 points in the 2nd half and neither Ponds or Dixon would have likely changed that but if either were available we would have undoubtedly scored more than 71.
But honestly, it goes deeper for me than a lost game. You see in college football now, some players, and it is still rare, don't play in bowl games because of the risk of injury affecting their draft status or ending their NFL aspirations. IMO, it is only a matter of time before players do like LoVett did and "shut it down" rather than risk further injury no matter the extent of their injury.
Free agency has been a factor in my losing interest in pro sports, college has moved to its own version of roster uncertainty.[/quote]
Well said Logen. I posted something similar on another thread. I have zero interest in pro sports and am losing interest in college sports. When my daughter was in high school, I would attend all of her games and many of the games(football and basketball) of many of her guy friends who attended mostly catholic schools(IE Xavier, Regis, CTK, etc). I got more enjoyment out of watching high school games than I do out of watching pro games, and about the same amount as watching college games. I too see the shift in college sports and wonder how much longer I’ll be a fan. Not to mention the fact that the cost of attending a game in any pro sport has become insane. If you had told me 20 years ago that one day I would no longer be a diehard Yankee or Knick fan, I would would have said “you’re crazy!”. But as I mentioned, I no longer give a damn about pro sports and can see myself eventually feeling the same way about D1 college sports.
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=314738][quote="we are sju" post=314736]Was at a family party. DVR'd the game but after I saw score did not watch. I know Ponds missed game but other board sort of hinting about possible Lovett repeat?
Don't want to try to read through all the misery regarding last night's game so what is the basis of the Ponds / Lovett thing, or is there none? Could someone summarize?
Much appreciated.[/quote]. apparently Ponds was quoted after Nova game that his back was sore . No reason to not accept that ... he does take a beating going to the basket and landing in the floor hard ..[/quote]
In order for him to miss a crucial game like this, I would have expected more than a “sore back” explanation. The fact that he didn’t even suit up and give it a shot, makes it all the more concerning. Regardless of whether his DNP was truly a result of a sore back, or something else.
Don't want to try to read through all the misery regarding last night's game so what is the basis of the Ponds / Lovett thing, or is there none? Could someone summarize?
Much appreciated.[/quote]. apparently Ponds was quoted after Nova game that his back was sore . No reason to not accept that ... he does take a beating going to the basket and landing in the floor hard ..[/quote]
In order for him to miss a crucial game like this, I would have expected more than a “sore back” explanation. The fact that he didn’t even suit up and give it a shot, makes it all the more concerning. Regardless of whether his DNP was truly a result of a sore back, or something else.
This is a poorly constructed team. Rudderless without Ponds. Not one guard who can put the ball on the floor. Trimble has yet to put two dribbles together this season. Big men who the staff are reluctant to put in the game. You recruited them! Looks to me Roberts and Earlington are gone. Maybe coach too.
A few observations from the game:
-Although we should have won, this isn't the Depaul of a few years ago that is an automatic win. This is the same DePaul who also just beat Seton Hall, and that was with Seton Hall NOT missing their best player. Every game in the Big East this season is a battle. Nothing is guaranteed.
-I don't think we deserved more foul calls than we got. DePaul attacked and got contact, we settled for jumpers.
-People are complaining about lack of height, are probably the same ones complaining a few years ago when we had nobody that could shoot. Did anyone notice that DePaul is horrible at 3's? Well the 3 point shot is supposed to be our equalizer, and we simply did not shoot it well tonight. Without Ponds, that's not going to get it done most nights.
-We are clearly not a great team without Ponds. The team looked disjointed at times almost like they didn't know how to play without him.
-This certainly puts us in a bit of a hole. If Ponds is out for any extended period, the outlook is not going to be good for this season. But I'm sure you could say the same thing about any team who has one of the best players in the country.
-Although we should have won, this isn't the Depaul of a few years ago that is an automatic win. This is the same DePaul who also just beat Seton Hall, and that was with Seton Hall NOT missing their best player. Every game in the Big East this season is a battle. Nothing is guaranteed.
-I don't think we deserved more foul calls than we got. DePaul attacked and got contact, we settled for jumpers.
-People are complaining about lack of height, are probably the same ones complaining a few years ago when we had nobody that could shoot. Did anyone notice that DePaul is horrible at 3's? Well the 3 point shot is supposed to be our equalizer, and we simply did not shoot it well tonight. Without Ponds, that's not going to get it done most nights.
-We are clearly not a great team without Ponds. The team looked disjointed at times almost like they didn't know how to play without him.
-This certainly puts us in a bit of a hole. If Ponds is out for any extended period, the outlook is not going to be good for this season. But I'm sure you could say the same thing about any team who has one of the best players in the country.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="david cross" post=314725]Call it trolling or whatever you want. This team with ponds is not the best team in the BE. The fact of the matter is good teams find a way to win, we have not seen that in years. Nova is having a somewhat diwn year, yet they are undefeated. SJU has a good starting 5. That is it. Trimble should be playing in the MAAC and Roberts and Williams should be getting mins. This is a .500 BE team. Period[/quote]
Root for another team I guess. Maybe you're a maac level fan. It kind of is what it is. Taking nova down to the last minute in their sold out plAce not an embarrassment.
Trimble didnt take minutes from Dixon. He plays a forward on defense and has done an ok job. On offense I'd agree he isn't an asset.
We took away our best player, and DePaul had already beaten an up an coming Georgetown team away also. This is a competitive league and many of you were intoxicated by a 14-1 start that could have been 15 and oh.
Two games later the same guys are crapping on everything and everyone, even with the league's best player out.
Actually it's disgusting to read this crap. Yes we could have played better. Yes without ponds we couldn't make athleticism counter height. But most if the other stuff is pure shit and honestly many of you, not all of course, don't deserve a winner.
Root for another team I guess. Maybe you're a maac level fan. It kind of is what it is. Taking nova down to the last minute in their sold out plAce not an embarrassment.
Trimble didnt take minutes from Dixon. He plays a forward on defense and has done an ok job. On offense I'd agree he isn't an asset.
We took away our best player, and DePaul had already beaten an up an coming Georgetown team away also. This is a competitive league and many of you were intoxicated by a 14-1 start that could have been 15 and oh.
Two games later the same guys are crapping on everything and everyone, even with the league's best player out.
Actually it's disgusting to read this crap. Yes we could have played better. Yes without ponds we couldn't make athleticism counter height. But most if the other stuff is pure shit and honestly many of you, not all of course, don't deserve a winner.
As Monte so aptly put it, as a St. John's fan you learn to hope for the best but expect the worst. I just find it strange that Clark said team knew for a few days that Ponds wouldn't play and Coach said he just found out yesterday. We will not beat many Big East teams at home or away without Shamorie. Hoping Creighton is one we can beat at home w/o him if need be.
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=314746]As Monte so aptly put it, as a St. John's fan you learn to hope for the best but expect the worst. I just find it very strange that Clark said team knew for a few days that Ponds wouldn't play and Coach said he just found out yesterday. We will not beat many Big East teams at home or away without Shamorie. Last night was probably our best chance to do that.[/quote]
Maybe Clark was speaking like I was when I said “I know we will lose a game we are not supposed to lose”, I just didn’t know it would be DePaul until I actually knew we lost to DePaul.
Maybe Clark was speaking like I was when I said “I know we will lose a game we are not supposed to lose”, I just didn’t know it would be DePaul until I actually knew we lost to DePaul.
Amaseinyourface wrote:
NCJohnnie wrote: As Monte so aptly put it, as a St. John's fan you learn to hope for the best but expect the worst. I just find it very strange that Clark said team knew for a few days that Ponds wouldn't play and Coach said he just found out yesterday. We will not beat many Big East teams at home or away without Shamorie. Last night was probably our best chance to do that.
Maybe Clark was speaking like I was when I said “I know we will lose a game we are not supposed to lose”, I just didn’t know it would be DePaul until I actually knew we lost to DePaul.
Maybe you're right Amase or maybe he meant he knew it was a possibility and Coach was talking about knowing for a certainty. Hoping we come up with a game plan to beat Creighton w/o Shamorie if need be and hope Shamorie gets well enough to play very soon. I need to be more optimistic about team. I usually am, but last night was tough to watch.
NCJohnnie wrote: As Monte so aptly put it, as a St. John's fan you learn to hope for the best but expect the worst. I just find it very strange that Clark said team knew for a few days that Ponds wouldn't play and Coach said he just found out yesterday. We will not beat many Big East teams at home or away without Shamorie. Last night was probably our best chance to do that.
Maybe Clark was speaking like I was when I said “I know we will lose a game we are not supposed to lose”, I just didn’t know it would be DePaul until I actually knew we lost to DePaul.
Maybe you're right Amase or maybe he meant he knew it was a possibility and Coach was talking about knowing for a certainty. Hoping we come up with a game plan to beat Creighton w/o Shamorie if need be and hope Shamorie gets well enough to play very soon. I need to be more optimistic about team. I usually am, but last night was tough to watch.
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[quote="Section3" post=314717]Most everything has been already said....
Absolutely needed to do something else on defense - pressing and/or zone - as they were way too comfortable. BTW, this would have been necessary even with Ponds.
Keita - nice blocks, but hope this is him shaking off rust on offense and rebounding and not already at his ceiling.
Heron - have to hope this is a funk that he will fight thru. Tonight was his opportunity to take the lead dog position and he didn’t.
LJ - as always, plays within the flow,. Very good game. Needs to be more of a focal point. Very efficient scorer.
Dixon - losing him hurt us 2 games in a row. Oh well.[/quote]
As I obsess (wife thinks I’m nuts) about the game, and while still pissed, the silver lining is that we did stay close in a game in which we were undermanned, grossly undersized and most importantly following a poor defensive strategy. The latter, I believe, is the most responsible for our loss.
That said, guys like Simon and LJ really stepped up as did a Clark in the 2nd half. Unfortunately, given the situation, we needed everyone to step up and we needed a defensive adjustment.
We’ve had a number of games this year with 3 players with 4 fouls. With no depth, staff is going to have to look at options like zone.
Absolutely needed to do something else on defense - pressing and/or zone - as they were way too comfortable. BTW, this would have been necessary even with Ponds.
Keita - nice blocks, but hope this is him shaking off rust on offense and rebounding and not already at his ceiling.
Heron - have to hope this is a funk that he will fight thru. Tonight was his opportunity to take the lead dog position and he didn’t.
LJ - as always, plays within the flow,. Very good game. Needs to be more of a focal point. Very efficient scorer.
Dixon - losing him hurt us 2 games in a row. Oh well.[/quote]
As I obsess (wife thinks I’m nuts) about the game, and while still pissed, the silver lining is that we did stay close in a game in which we were undermanned, grossly undersized and most importantly following a poor defensive strategy. The latter, I believe, is the most responsible for our loss.
That said, guys like Simon and LJ really stepped up as did a Clark in the 2nd half. Unfortunately, given the situation, we needed everyone to step up and we needed a defensive adjustment.
We’ve had a number of games this year with 3 players with 4 fouls. With no depth, staff is going to have to look at options like zone.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=314745][quote="david cross" post=314725]Call it trolling or whatever you want. This team with ponds is not the best team in the BE. The fact of the matter is good teams find a way to win, we have not seen that in years. Nova is having a somewhat diwn year, yet they are undefeated. SJU has a good starting 5. That is it. Trimble should be playing in the MAAC and Roberts and Williams should be getting mins. This is a .500 BE team. Period[/quote]
Root for another team I guess. Maybe you're a maac level fan. It kind of is what it is. Taking nova down to the last minute in their sold out plAce not an embarrassment.
Trimble didnt take minutes from Dixon. He plays a forward on defense and has done an ok job. On offense I'd agree he isn't an asset.
We took away our best player, and DePaul had already beaten an up an coming Georgetown team away also. This is a competitive league and many of you were intoxicated by a 14-1 start that could have been 15 and oh.
Two games later the same guys are crapping on everything and everyone, even with the league's best player out.
Actually it's disgusting to read this crap. Yes we could have played better. Yes without ponds we couldn't make athleticism counter height. But most if the other stuff is pure shit and honestly many of you, not all of course, don't deserve a winner.[/quote]
Yesterday Trimble was expected to do more than he’s capable of. He’s a role player and good spot up shooter in the half court offense. He’s a solid defender(usually against much bigger guys) who gives 100% whenever he’s on the court.
Root for another team I guess. Maybe you're a maac level fan. It kind of is what it is. Taking nova down to the last minute in their sold out plAce not an embarrassment.
Trimble didnt take minutes from Dixon. He plays a forward on defense and has done an ok job. On offense I'd agree he isn't an asset.
We took away our best player, and DePaul had already beaten an up an coming Georgetown team away also. This is a competitive league and many of you were intoxicated by a 14-1 start that could have been 15 and oh.
Two games later the same guys are crapping on everything and everyone, even with the league's best player out.
Actually it's disgusting to read this crap. Yes we could have played better. Yes without ponds we couldn't make athleticism counter height. But most if the other stuff is pure shit and honestly many of you, not all of course, don't deserve a winner.[/quote]
Yesterday Trimble was expected to do more than he’s capable of. He’s a role player and good spot up shooter in the half court offense. He’s a solid defender(usually against much bigger guys) who gives 100% whenever he’s on the court.
I think folks are underestimating DePaul a bit based on their recent history. Like us, they should have beaten Nova.
Put Ponds on that team and they might be the prohibitive favorite in the Big East. Not saying they are world beaters and we should still beat them but they are not as bad as folks are making the, out to be.
Put Ponds on that team and they might be the prohibitive favorite in the Big East. Not saying they are world beaters and we should still beat them but they are not as bad as folks are making the, out to be.
[quote="Monte" post=314753]We were 10 pt favs with Ponds, and 6 pt favs without him. Clearly the oddsmakers and the betters(who cause the lines to shift), severly underestimated Ponds’ importance to our team.[/quote]
I think his importance is more than the stat sheet. It's his amazing knack to make big plays at big times seemingly without effort. This transcends talent so the notion that some other talented guy should be able to make up for his absence is wrong-headed IMO.
I think his importance is more than the stat sheet. It's his amazing knack to make big plays at big times seemingly without effort. This transcends talent so the notion that some other talented guy should be able to make up for his absence is wrong-headed IMO.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
[quote="Rehobie" post=314742]This is a poorly constructed team. Rudderless without Ponds. Not one guard who can put the ball on the floor. Trimble has yet to put two dribbles together this season. Big men who the staff are reluctant to put in the game. You recruited them! Looks to me Roberts and Earlington are gone. Maybe coach too.[/quote]
If you know your history, this is the way SJU basketball has always been. Mullin averaged 39 minutes a game as a junior and senior. I'm guessing Mark Jackson did 2 years later. Both those teams would have looked rudderless without them, because everything ran through them. For Muliin, there was no shot clock and no 3 point line to defend, so less energy had to be exerted. Lucky for those teams, both were iron men. Regarding possible transfers beyond Dixon, our track record indicates we don't have much to worry about. Outside of grad transfer Owens, the rest of the departures have contributed little at lower quality programs.
If you know your history, this is the way SJU basketball has always been. Mullin averaged 39 minutes a game as a junior and senior. I'm guessing Mark Jackson did 2 years later. Both those teams would have looked rudderless without them, because everything ran through them. For Muliin, there was no shot clock and no 3 point line to defend, so less energy had to be exerted. Lucky for those teams, both were iron men. Regarding possible transfers beyond Dixon, our track record indicates we don't have much to worry about. Outside of grad transfer Owens, the rest of the departures have contributed little at lower quality programs.
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="ron " post=314721]Apologies if this has already been posted:
https://dalydoseofhoops.blogspot.com/[/quote]
Oh you don't have to post it. Jaden will post it automatically and nothing else on the site
https://dalydoseofhoops.blogspot.com/[/quote]
Oh you don't have to post it. Jaden will post it automatically and nothing else on the site
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[quote="ctstorm" post=314754][quote="Monte" post=314753]We were 10 pt favs with Ponds, and 6 pt favs without him. Clearly the oddsmakers and the betters(who cause the lines to shift), severly underestimated Ponds’ importance to our team.[/quote]
I think his importance is more than the stat sheet. It's his amazing knack to make big plays at big times seemingly without effort. This transcends talent so the notion that some other talented guy should be able to make up for his absence is wrong-headed IMO.[/quote]
No one was going to step in to Ponds’ shoes. My hope was that maybe LJ, Heron or Clark would have stepped up with a 20 pt game, and collectively we’d be able to do enough to come away with a W. Didn’t happen.
I think his importance is more than the stat sheet. It's his amazing knack to make big plays at big times seemingly without effort. This transcends talent so the notion that some other talented guy should be able to make up for his absence is wrong-headed IMO.[/quote]
No one was going to step in to Ponds’ shoes. My hope was that maybe LJ, Heron or Clark would have stepped up with a 20 pt game, and collectively we’d be able to do enough to come away with a W. Didn’t happen.