(POST-GAME) DePaul, Sat. Jan. 12, 6p, CBS SN / 970 AM

[quote="Class of 72" post=314910]Some great comments about lack of defensive adjustments by the coaches (St. Jean) but until there is a change in the staff structure don't expect different results.
Who on this staff is familiar with designing a zone defense? Mullin? Louie never coached a zone. The other guys never coached college ball.
Hire an assistant and stop worrying he will know more than you about coaching.
If it means paying off Slice then do it![/quote]

I would suggest Coach and the staff know how to implement a zone. They have chosen this year not to use it very often. We have not lost any games this year because we did not play a lot of zone. The bigger question is why have they chosen not to use it more? All games have been winnable. If Ponds is not hurt DePaul is probably a different outcome. Again, do not over analyze. Except for several elite teams, the margin of victory and defeat is very close. Bad call, missed shot, ill-timed turnover, bad foul shooting and many other items more frequently cause wins or losses.
 
[quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=314924][quote="Class of 72" post=314910]Some great comments about lack of defensive adjustments by the coaches (St. Jean) but until there is a change in the staff structure don't expect different results.
Who on this staff is familiar with designing a zone defense? Mullin? Louie never coached a zone. The other guys never coached college ball.
Hire an assistant and stop worrying he will know more than you about coaching.
If it means paying off Slice then do it![/quote]

I would suggest Coach and the staff know how to implement a zone. They have chosen this year not to use it very often. We have not lost any games this year because we did not play a lot of zone. The bigger question is why have they chosen not to use it more? All games have been winnable. If Ponds is not hurt DePaul is probably a different outcome. Again, do not over analyze. Except for several elite teams, the margin of victory and defeat is very close. Bad call, missed shot, ill-timed turnover, bad foul shooting and many other items more frequently cause wins or losses.[/quote]

All true about a random bounce or a ref's call sometimes deciding a game. Big East parity means expect most games to be winnable by either side, based on looking at the scoreboard in the second half. Also true is that the end game is about execution, about knowing what to do when you get there, and about having players that are fresh enough to execute. Some teams, and coaches, are just better at the end game. Good teams wake up from a slumber, turn up the defensive pressure a notch, pull out a close victory, and move on to the next game without any fanfare. We are not that team yet. I think our A game is as good or better than any other team in the conference, but I also believe that our B game won't win many games. Reason for that is no bench to ignite team when starters are lacking energy, or injured, and no bangers to compensate for the days we don't shoot well. Point is that not all winnable games are created equal. Some are just illusions.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=314893][quote="Mike Zaun" post=314876][quote="Beast of the East

Think of our fan base as collectively having bipolar depression. Then think that the goals of treatment is keeping the highs lows from being well disconnected from reality.

Actually I wonder how many of us are bipolar and don't know it. I'm serious.[/quote]

"Think of how stupid the average person is, then realize that half the population is stupider than that"
George Carlin


An estimated 21,000,000 people in the US have some form of mental illness. Think about that.[/quote]
 
Saw on ESPN or some other sports page that Tennessee has a BENCH player averaging like 19 PPG. Just goes to show a real bench vs. no bench. The only Big East caliber bench player we have is Williams. Maybe getting more fresh legs would help us, but don't starters on other teams log around the same as ours usually? Maybe we just cannot execute when we need to.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=314960]Saw on ESPN or some other sports page that Tennessee has a BENCH player averaging like 19 PPG. Just goes to show a real bench vs. no bench. The only Big East caliber bench player we have is Williams. Maybe getting more fresh legs would help us, but don't starters on other teams log around the same as ours usually? Maybe we just cannot execute when we need to.[/quote]

I dunno, I just think that's a weak argument. Look at last year. Our team played marathon minutes the whole season. Against Duke: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 37 minutes, Ahmed 38 minutes, Owens 37 minutes. Clark 21/Trimble 22.

A few days later @ Nova: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 39 minutes, Owens 39 minutes, Clark 37 minutes, Ahmed 31 minutes.

Just a couple of games ago against Georgetown, which went into OT. I don't remember us looking winded in OT. Simon played 42 minutes, and Ponds played 41 minutes.

When we played Nova, Boothe played 40 minutes, and Paschall played 39!! Why were they not winded? Why is Jay Wright not scolded for not going to use bench?

Sure, I'd like to see us extend the rotation too. But from the way I see it, other teams are making adjustments at the end of the game, which I believe is what happened vs Nova and Seton Hall, and it locked us down. We have not made the proper adjustments.
 
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Agree 112, I just think it intentionally/unintentionally becomes a cover for no real big man and poor coaching unfortunately. Other players play similar minutes and shut us down late. These are young guys...they are in great shape. As you said, would be nice to go to bench a bit more, but I think the real reasons for our recent losses were mentioned above.
 
All true.if we can not win without ponds(and we do not know it after one loss) then we are in big trouble and will struggle to end up 500 in confr play and what we hoped was going to be a great season will become one which we underachieved Woithout Ponds in the line up coaching needs to step up as well as the rest of the team Simon doing good but he should stay with jumpers 15 feet or less from the basket .We commit a lot of fouls because our size and toiling up on bigs thereby leaving open shots for the other team way to often it surprise me with all of Simons talent he can not become a75% free throw shooter all said with we had shot our free throws better we win at DePaul. Next game is a must win that will determine our direction toward an NCAA bid
 
[quote="Room112" post=314965][quote="Mike Zaun" post=314960]Saw on ESPN or some other sports page that Tennessee has a BENCH player averaging like 19 PPG. Just goes to show a real bench vs. no bench. The only Big East caliber bench player we have is Williams. Maybe getting more fresh legs would help us, but don't starters on other teams log around the same as ours usually? Maybe we just cannot execute when we need to.[/quote]

I dunno, I just think that's a weak argument. Look at last year. Our team played marathon minutes the whole season. Against Duke: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 37 minutes, Ahmed 38 minutes, Owens 37 minutes. Clark 21/Trimble 22.

A few days later @ Nova: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 39 minutes, Owens 39 minutes, Clark 37 minutes, Ahmed 31 minutes.

Just a couple of games ago against Georgetown, which went into OT. I don't remember us looking winded in OT. Simon played 42 minutes, and Ponds played 41 minutes.

When we played Nova, Boothe played 40 minutes, and Paschall played 39!! Why were they not winded? Why is Jay Wright not scolded for not going to use bench?

Sure, I'd like to see us extend the rotation too. But from the way I see it, other teams are making adjustments at the end of the game, which I believe is what happened vs Nova and Seton Hall, and it locked us down. We have not made the proper adjustments.[/quote]

Great points 112, but I do think we run and press more than most teams in the conference and have the thinnest bench of all. And at the end of several games, Hall, Nova, some key guys, I.e., Ponds & Heron, looked a bit gassed.
 
The term "must win" honestly gets thrown around too much these days and I'm just as guilty as the next guy...but this one literally is a must win if we want to make tourney and not rely on BET to get in. Absolutely cannot lose back to back home games with a near impossible road trip coming up vs. Duke, Marq, Creighton. That could very easily be 5 losses plus the 3 we already have and then at best we'd be 10-8 if we won out. Even then it may not be enough because of the poor OOC. If you can't beat teams on your home court consistently, you will not be in the tournament very often in this league. Can't blame fans either, there have been lots of sellouts.
 
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[quote="Room112" post=314965][quote="Mike Zaun" post=314960]Saw on ESPN or some other sports page that Tennessee has a BENCH player averaging like 19 PPG. Just goes to show a real bench vs. no bench. The only Big East caliber bench player we have is Williams. Maybe getting more fresh legs would help us, but don't starters on other teams log around the same as ours usually? Maybe we just cannot execute when we need to.[/quote]

I dunno, I just think that's a weak argument. Look at last year. Our team played marathon minutes the whole season. Against Duke: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 37 minutes, Ahmed 38 minutes, Owens 37 minutes. Clark 21/Trimble 22.

A few days later @ Nova: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 39 minutes, Owens 39 minutes, Clark 37 minutes, Ahmed 31 minutes.

Just a couple of games ago against Georgetown, which went into OT. I don't remember us looking winded in OT. Simon played 42 minutes, and Ponds played 41 minutes.

When we played Nova, Boothe played 40 minutes, and Paschall played 39!! Why were they not winded? Why is Jay Wright not scolded for not going to use bench?

Sure, I'd like to see us extend the rotation too. But from the way I see it, other teams are making adjustments at the end of the game, which I believe is what happened vs Nova and Seton Hall, and it locked us down. We have not made the proper adjustments.[/quote]

Want my opinion? While I respect yours, thinking about this, the reason we fell flat is if Pond's back is really hurting, he was unable to take over and own the last 5 minutes, which would explain him hoisting bombs from 25 feet instead of slicing up a defense.

Great coaching mostly begins and ends with great players making great plays.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=314972][quote="Room112" post=314965][quote="Mike Zaun" post=314960]Saw on ESPN or some other sports page that Tennessee has a BENCH player averaging like 19 PPG. Just goes to show a real bench vs. no bench. The only Big East caliber bench player we have is Williams. Maybe getting more fresh legs would help us, but don't starters on other teams log around the same as ours usually? Maybe we just cannot execute when we need to.[/quote]

I dunno, I just think that's a weak argument. Look at last year. Our team played marathon minutes the whole season. Against Duke: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 37 minutes, Ahmed 38 minutes, Owens 37 minutes. Clark 21/Trimble 22.

A few days later @ Nova: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 39 minutes, Owens 39 minutes, Clark 37 minutes, Ahmed 31 minutes.

Just a couple of games ago against Georgetown, which went into OT. I don't remember us looking winded in OT. Simon played 42 minutes, and Ponds played 41 minutes.

When we played Nova, Boothe played 40 minutes, and Paschall played 39!! Why were they not winded? Why is Jay Wright not scolded for not going to use bench?

Sure, I'd like to see us extend the rotation too. But from the way I see it, other teams are making adjustments at the end of the game, which I believe is what happened vs Nova and Seton Hall, and it locked us down. We have not made the proper adjustments.[/quote]

Want my opinion? While I respect yours, thinking about this, the reason we fell flat is if Pond's back is really hurting, he was unable to take over and own the last 5 minutes, which would explain him hoisting bombs from 25 feet instead of slicing up a defense.

Great coaching mostly begins and ends with great players making great plays.[/quote]

You're right about that Beast. Seton Hall was flukey at the end with the missed FTs and then the ref. Nova, Boothe stepped up and Ponds didn't. It couldn't have easily been the reverse and we win big. DePaul Ponds was out, but we would have won with him likely.

Not trying to blame coach. I just would like to see us switch the defense into zone more often, have the bench play more, and even start pressing again.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=314972][quote="Room112" post=314965][quote="Mike Zaun" post=314960]Saw on ESPN or some other sports page that Tennessee has a BENCH player averaging like 19 PPG. Just goes to show a real bench vs. no bench. The only Big East caliber bench player we have is Williams. Maybe getting more fresh legs would help us, but don't starters on other teams log around the same as ours usually? Maybe we just cannot execute when we need to.[/quote]

I dunno, I just think that's a weak argument. Look at last year. Our team played marathon minutes the whole season. Against Duke: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 37 minutes, Ahmed 38 minutes, Owens 37 minutes. Clark 21/Trimble 22.

A few days later @ Nova: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 39 minutes, Owens 39 minutes, Clark 37 minutes, Ahmed 31 minutes.

Just a couple of games ago against Georgetown, which went into OT. I don't remember us looking winded in OT. Simon played 42 minutes, and Ponds played 41 minutes.

When we played Nova, Boothe played 40 minutes, and Paschall played 39!! Why were they not winded? Why is Jay Wright not scolded for not going to use bench?

Sure, I'd like to see us extend the rotation too. But from the way I see it, other teams are making adjustments at the end of the game, which I believe is what happened vs Nova and Seton Hall, and it locked us down. We have not made the proper adjustments.[/quote]

Want my opinion? While I respect yours, thinking about this, the reason we fell flat is if Pond's back is really hurting, he was unable to take over and own the last 5 minutes, which would explain him hoisting bombs from 25 feet instead of slicing up a defense.

Great coaching mostly begins and ends with great players making great plays.[/quote]

Hey Beast, if his back isn't the issue, what do you think might be? Seems there's been cryptic things said, but nothing outright about what Ponds deal is. Thanks man.
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=314978][quote="Beast of the East" post=314972][quote="Room112" post=314965][quote="Mike Zaun" post=314960]Saw on ESPN or some other sports page that Tennessee has a BENCH player averaging like 19 PPG. Just goes to show a real bench vs. no bench. The only Big East caliber bench player we have is Williams. Maybe getting more fresh legs would help us, but don't starters on other teams log around the same as ours usually? Maybe we just cannot execute when we need to.[/quote]

I dunno, I just think that's a weak argument. Look at last year. Our team played marathon minutes the whole season. Against Duke: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 37 minutes, Ahmed 38 minutes, Owens 37 minutes. Clark 21/Trimble 22.

A few days later @ Nova: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 39 minutes, Owens 39 minutes, Clark 37 minutes, Ahmed 31 minutes.

Just a couple of games ago against Georgetown, which went into OT. I don't remember us looking winded in OT. Simon played 42 minutes, and Ponds played 41 minutes.

When we played Nova, Boothe played 40 minutes, and Paschall played 39!! Why were they not winded? Why is Jay Wright not scolded for not going to use bench?

Sure, I'd like to see us extend the rotation too. But from the way I see it, other teams are making adjustments at the end of the game, which I believe is what happened vs Nova and Seton Hall, and it locked us down. We have not made the proper adjustments.[/quote]

Want my opinion? While I respect yours, thinking about this, the reason we fell flat is if Pond's back is really hurting, he was unable to take over and own the last 5 minutes, which would explain him hoisting bombs from 25 feet instead of slicing up a defense.

Great coaching mostly begins and ends with great players making great plays.[/quote]

Hey Beast, if his back isn't the issue, what do you think might be? Seems there's been cryptic things said, but nothing outright about what Ponds deal is. Thanks man.[/quote]

Maybe Mullin is holding him out but you'll know Wednesday.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=314980][quote="rawdognyc" post=314978][quote="Beast of the East" post=314972][quote="Room112" post=314965][quote="Mike Zaun" post=314960]Saw on ESPN or some other sports page that Tennessee has a BENCH player averaging like 19 PPG. Just goes to show a real bench vs. no bench. The only Big East caliber bench player we have is Williams. Maybe getting more fresh legs would help us, but don't starters on other teams log around the same as ours usually? Maybe we just cannot execute when we need to.[/quote]

I dunno, I just think that's a weak argument. Look at last year. Our team played marathon minutes the whole season. Against Duke: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 37 minutes, Ahmed 38 minutes, Owens 37 minutes. Clark 21/Trimble 22.

A few days later @ Nova: Ponds 40 minutes, Simon 39 minutes, Owens 39 minutes, Clark 37 minutes, Ahmed 31 minutes.

Just a couple of games ago against Georgetown, which went into OT. I don't remember us looking winded in OT. Simon played 42 minutes, and Ponds played 41 minutes.

When we played Nova, Boothe played 40 minutes, and Paschall played 39!! Why were they not winded? Why is Jay Wright not scolded for not going to use bench?

Sure, I'd like to see us extend the rotation too. But from the way I see it, other teams are making adjustments at the end of the game, which I believe is what happened vs Nova and Seton Hall, and it locked us down. We have not made the proper adjustments.[/quote]

Want my opinion? While I respect yours, thinking about this, the reason we fell flat is if Pond's back is really hurting, he was unable to take over and own the last 5 minutes, which would explain him hoisting bombs from 25 feet instead of slicing up a defense.

Great coaching mostly begins and ends with great players making great plays.[/quote]

Hey Beast, if his back isn't the issue, what do you think might be? Seems there's been cryptic things said, but nothing outright about what Ponds deal is. Thanks man.[/quote]

Maybe Mullin is holding him out but you'll know Wednesday.[/quote]

You think team violation or something?
 
After a loss, I think the thread title should go from post game to post mortem. Our collective mood goes from sky high after a win to morbid after a loss. Before the Nova game, there were some posts about Mullin for coach of the year.Two losses later, and some posters are talking about Mullin's demise. We all have to remember we aren't as bad as we looked against Depaul, and not as good as we looked against Marquette. It's about effort and execution, and stars stepping up and doing the things stars do to change the outcome of a game.
 
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