(POST GAME) BYU (@Mohegan Sun), Mon., Nov. 30, 6p, ESPNU / 970 AM WNYM
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[quote="bamafan" post=405669]Early in the game we were chucking up 3s many by guys who should not be taking them. Coach said our offense was "settling" for these shots so why not call a TO and tell the team what you want from them in no uncertain terms?[/quote]
Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.
Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.
[quote="Logen" post=405671][quote="bamafan" post=405669]Early in the game we were chucking up 3s many by guys who should not be taking them. Coach said our offense was "settling" for these shots so why not call a TO and tell the team what you want from them in no uncertain terms?[/quote]
Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]
So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.
Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]
So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=405672][quote="Logen" post=405671][quote="bamafan" post=405669]Early in the game we were chucking up 3s many by guys who should not be taking them. Coach said our offense was "settling" for these shots so why not call a TO and tell the team what you want from them in no uncertain terms?[/quote]
Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]
So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.[/quote]
No, that’s not what I said at all, I guess reading is not a strong suit so maybe try buying a book. What I said, really speculated (sorry for using a word with more than two syllables) was that maybe he wants players to realize for themselves what is a good and bad shot for them in other ways than calling timeouts in games. And as long as we are going there, the idea that fans watching on TV after four games should decide who should be shooting and playing along with what shots they should be taking rather than coaches who recruited them and see them every day in practice is what’s really stupid. I played ball seriously for decades, including NAIA college ball, and I more than went through good and bad stretches of play, every player has, that’s the way it works.
Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]
So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.[/quote]
No, that’s not what I said at all, I guess reading is not a strong suit so maybe try buying a book. What I said, really speculated (sorry for using a word with more than two syllables) was that maybe he wants players to realize for themselves what is a good and bad shot for them in other ways than calling timeouts in games. And as long as we are going there, the idea that fans watching on TV after four games should decide who should be shooting and playing along with what shots they should be taking rather than coaches who recruited them and see them every day in practice is what’s really stupid. I played ball seriously for decades, including NAIA college ball, and I more than went through good and bad stretches of play, every player has, that’s the way it works.
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In no world should Cole have 6 shots compared to 12 by Moore and 8 by Earlington. Even more perplexing is that they took 8 three point attempts combined, to Cole’s 2. If I was Cole I’d be frustrated too, you have guys looking to chuck instead of looking to set up their teammates. Every time I saw someone take a bad shot they were pulled immediately, then they would come back in a repeat the same action.
That would have been a good coaching move
Sadltonly mo,think I have seen enough that I can realize what the rest of the season will be like. Thought we recruited shooters but we are lacking in that area as well as a strong inside rebounder
Hope I am wrong think we are in for another long season. Like Posh but he has to get under
Control ,Toro been a bust , More hangs out too far from the basket tide 30 foot shots ,Wusu shows promise
Cole has not been as advertised getting not to like the 40 mins of hell
Hope things start getting better
Sadltonly mo,think I have seen enough that I can realize what the rest of the season will be like. Thought we recruited shooters but we are lacking in that area as well as a strong inside rebounder
Hope I am wrong think we are in for another long season. Like Posh but he has to get under
Control ,Toro been a bust , More hangs out too far from the basket tide 30 foot shots ,Wusu shows promise
Cole has not been as advertised getting not to like the 40 mins of hell
Hope things start getting better
JohnnyFever
Active member
We weren't going to be undefeated and most of us knew BYU is a borderline major program playing in a mid major conference. So not a really bad loss even though it was right there. Ball bounces a few more times our way and it could've been another W. Idk about everyone else, but I had to admire their shooting. In some stretches they were shooting 3's like we shoot FT's. Effortless. Just goes to show it's not always about athletes...we are faster and more athletic but they were much more skilled that game. I would like to see our team make more open shots. It just seems we brick or airball way too many open 3's. Not that we had many open looks last night but just saying. Seemed like our guards wanted no part of their bigs and got frustrated being blocked when they did drive. I was saying that would be an issue with a 5'10 PG...he did have a nice play or two on Haarms though.
If it's any solace, that clip of 5'10 Posh sneaking up on 7'3 Haarms stealing the ball was hilarious. As everyone else is running the other way, Haarms is standing there reflecting on how awful it was with his hands out as if to say, "Wow I'm an idiot". One of the funnier moments I've seen and surprised it didn't end up on Barstool or similar. Posh will be fine...it's not often we will face 7'3 guys in the paint. Wusu has been so good for a true freshman. Can't even imagine what he will be as a senior. Him and Champ seem to be the only 2 guys really knocking down their open 3's as they should be. I had no idea his shot was so crisp and consistent. Looks like a baby Zion out there. Get off the tracks when the train is coming through!
If it's any solace, that clip of 5'10 Posh sneaking up on 7'3 Haarms stealing the ball was hilarious. As everyone else is running the other way, Haarms is standing there reflecting on how awful it was with his hands out as if to say, "Wow I'm an idiot". One of the funnier moments I've seen and surprised it didn't end up on Barstool or similar. Posh will be fine...it's not often we will face 7'3 guys in the paint. Wusu has been so good for a true freshman. Can't even imagine what he will be as a senior. Him and Champ seem to be the only 2 guys really knocking down their open 3's as they should be. I had no idea his shot was so crisp and consistent. Looks like a baby Zion out there. Get off the tracks when the train is coming through!
4/21 or 19% from 3 point land is the equivalent of 17 turnovers. Especially since we were getting beat on the boards. The team has to make better decisions as to when 3 point shots are good shots.
There were several possessions when SJU made a little run and you could see BYU execute their offense. Made sure they got a good look. Our team seemed to panic and take any shot. I do think there are points in games where you want to seize momentum or blunt a run where you need to make sure you are getting a good look. I don’t think we did that yesterday when we had chances to seize momentum.
There were several possessions when SJU made a little run and you could see BYU execute their offense. Made sure they got a good look. Our team seemed to panic and take any shot. I do think there are points in games where you want to seize momentum or blunt a run where you need to make sure you are getting a good look. I don’t think we did that yesterday when we had chances to seize momentum.
WillyDilly
Member
[quote="Boo Harvey" post=405662][quote="Delaware" post=405656]This team needs Champ, Cole and Williams to get most shots. With the way Earlington and Moore throw up shots, they can't be taking more than Cole, Williams, Posh and Wusu. Just can't win that way. CMA needs to establish some roles here or we're going to see more games like this. Frustrating and annoying loss. Team could easily be 4-0. What concerns me is that we all repeatedly see these shortcomings, but it takes almost an entire season for the coaching staff to get everyone on the same page.[/quote]
Everybody is down on Earlington. He’s struggled a bit, but he is one of our best offensive players. As I predicted, Cole is limited because of his lack of athleticism and poor ball handling. He really does remind me of Avery Patterson.[/quote]
What exactly is Earlington better at offensively than other players on the team? He's a way below average shooter. His dribbling has alot to be desired. He's an OK passer. So what is it that he apparently does so well?
Even last year, in a season when he got so much praise, he was 5th in scoring, 3rd in rebounding, and 9th in assists.
I get why people liked him last year. He made a lot of hustle plays and at times did some of the dirty work. But if he is not doing those things, which thus far this year he has not and seemingly has no desire to, the reality is that he is an average basketball player at best. Which is fine, as long as he understands that and accepts that.
Everybody is down on Earlington. He’s struggled a bit, but he is one of our best offensive players. As I predicted, Cole is limited because of his lack of athleticism and poor ball handling. He really does remind me of Avery Patterson.[/quote]
What exactly is Earlington better at offensively than other players on the team? He's a way below average shooter. His dribbling has alot to be desired. He's an OK passer. So what is it that he apparently does so well?
Even last year, in a season when he got so much praise, he was 5th in scoring, 3rd in rebounding, and 9th in assists.
I get why people liked him last year. He made a lot of hustle plays and at times did some of the dirty work. But if he is not doing those things, which thus far this year he has not and seemingly has no desire to, the reality is that he is an average basketball player at best. Which is fine, as long as he understands that and accepts that.
the rebounding stats again this game for Moore and Earlington vs our guards is discouraging.
I don't think we can win if we play with the effect of 1 point guard and 4 shooting guards on the floor at all times.
I don't think we can win if we play with the effect of 1 point guard and 4 shooting guards on the floor at all times.
[quote="sjc88" post=405702]4/21 or 19% from 3 point land is the equivalent of 17 turnovers. Especially since we were getting beat on the boards. The team has to make better decisions as to when 3 point shots are good shots.
There were several possessions when SJU made a little run and you could see BYU execute their offense. Made sure they got a good look. Our team seemed to panic and take any shot. I do think there are points in games where you want to seize momentum or blunt a run where you need to make sure you are getting a good look. I don’t think we did that yesterday when we had chances to seize momentum.[/quote]
Agreed. They are a much more disciplined team then we are right now. We'll probably never see that kind of discipline from our kids, just because of the kind of game we play under CMA, but we should see improvement as we move forward.
There were several possessions when SJU made a little run and you could see BYU execute their offense. Made sure they got a good look. Our team seemed to panic and take any shot. I do think there are points in games where you want to seize momentum or blunt a run where you need to make sure you are getting a good look. I don’t think we did that yesterday when we had chances to seize momentum.[/quote]
Agreed. They are a much more disciplined team then we are right now. We'll probably never see that kind of discipline from our kids, just because of the kind of game we play under CMA, but we should see improvement as we move forward.
JohnnyFever
Active member
It just looked like our guys were super lazy offensively. Like CMA said, our defense could've been better but they played well enough to win. The offense is what lost us the game. Remember all the guys standing around, and chucking 3's 5 seconds into the shot clock instead of seeing if there's a better shot (there always is)? That's Mullin ball. We are supposed to be better than that now. BYU played good defense don't get me wrong...but the important thing against a team like BYU is to drive, drive drive. It doesn't matter if you miss your layups on the 7 footers. You will still get your share of fouls called and they will eventually back off if they get in foul trouble. That's still a better plan than chucking and praying. Moore needs to be inside the paint...he does not see himself as a big and that could be a problem for us. If we had a true big man (6'10-6'11 230 lb bruiser with some offensive touch), he would be drawing defenders in which would open up a ton more looks for Moore and he could drift further away from hoop. We are 1 pure shooter and 1 true center away from relevancy IMO.
boo haarvey
Active member
[quote="stormin normin" post=405704][quote="Boo Harvey" post=405662][quote="Delaware" post=405656]This team needs Champ, Cole and Williams to get most shots. With the way Earlington and Moore throw up shots, they can't be taking more than Cole, Williams, Posh and Wusu. Just can't win that way. CMA needs to establish some roles here or we're going to see more games like this. Frustrating and annoying loss. Team could easily be 4-0. What concerns me is that we all repeatedly see these shortcomings, but it takes almost an entire season for the coaching staff to get everyone on the same page.[/quote]
Everybody is down on Earlington. He’s struggled a bit, but he is one of our best offensive players. As I predicted, Cole is limited because of his lack of athleticism and poor ball handling. He really does remind me of Avery Patterson.[/quote]
What exactly is Earlington better at offensively than other players on the team? He's a way below average shooter. His dribbling has alot to be desired. He's an OK passer. So what is it that he apparently does so well?
Even last year, in a season when he got so much praise, he was 5th in scoring, 3rd in rebounding, and 9th in assists.
I get why people liked him last year. He made a lot of hustle plays and at times did some of the dirty work. But if he is not doing those things, which thus far this year he has not and seemingly has no desire to, the reality is that he is an average basketball player at best. Which is fine, as long as he understands that and accepts that.[/quote]
I don't have the stats in front of me, but I suspect if you adjusted for minutes played last year, he would rank higher.
Everybody is down on Earlington. He’s struggled a bit, but he is one of our best offensive players. As I predicted, Cole is limited because of his lack of athleticism and poor ball handling. He really does remind me of Avery Patterson.[/quote]
What exactly is Earlington better at offensively than other players on the team? He's a way below average shooter. His dribbling has alot to be desired. He's an OK passer. So what is it that he apparently does so well?
Even last year, in a season when he got so much praise, he was 5th in scoring, 3rd in rebounding, and 9th in assists.
I get why people liked him last year. He made a lot of hustle plays and at times did some of the dirty work. But if he is not doing those things, which thus far this year he has not and seemingly has no desire to, the reality is that he is an average basketball player at best. Which is fine, as long as he understands that and accepts that.[/quote]
I don't have the stats in front of me, but I suspect if you adjusted for minutes played last year, he would rank higher.
Mullins Revenge
Well-known member
Were lucky we are not 1-3
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=405707]It just looked like our guys were super lazy offensively. Like CMA said, our defense could've been better but they played well enough to win. The offense is what lost us the game. Remember all the guys standing around, and chucking 3's 5 seconds into the shot clock instead of seeing if there's a better shot (there always is)? That's Mullin ball. We are supposed to be better than that now. BYU played good defense don't get me wrong...but the important thing against a team like BYU is to drive, drive drive. It doesn't matter if you miss your layups on the 7 footers. You will still get your share of fouls called and they will eventually back off if they get in foul trouble. That's still a better plan than chucking and praying. Moore needs to be inside the paint...he does not see himself as a big and that could be a problem for us. If we had a true big man (6'10-6'11 230 lb bruiser with some offensive touch), he would be drawing defenders in which would open up a ton more looks for Moore and he could drift further away from hoop. We are 1 pure shooter and 1 true center away from relevancy IMO.[/quote]
I would say we looked very "impatient" offensively. We're not a good half court team, and instead of letting things come to them by moving the ball around, the kids tend to try and make things happen on their own. For Posh, Cole and Moore, they had success doing that were they played last year. It's not nearly as easy at this level. I'm sure CMA and the staff is trying to strike the right balance with these kids; getting them to be aggressive , but also make smart decisions with the ball. As for Moore being a low post player, I'm not sure we'll ever see that. Much like we never saw it with Tariq. Toro isn't the answer IMO. I think the best we can hope for is that we get through this season, and find a big for next season.
I would say we looked very "impatient" offensively. We're not a good half court team, and instead of letting things come to them by moving the ball around, the kids tend to try and make things happen on their own. For Posh, Cole and Moore, they had success doing that were they played last year. It's not nearly as easy at this level. I'm sure CMA and the staff is trying to strike the right balance with these kids; getting them to be aggressive , but also make smart decisions with the ball. As for Moore being a low post player, I'm not sure we'll ever see that. Much like we never saw it with Tariq. Toro isn't the answer IMO. I think the best we can hope for is that we get through this season, and find a big for next season.
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=405693]Just goes to show it's not always about athletes...we are faster and more athletic but they were much more skilled that game. I would like to see our team make more open shots. It just seems we brick or airball way too many open 3's. Not that we had many open looks.[/quote]
So tired of this story every year. We're faster and more athletic, but it doesn't cut it.
So tired of this story every year. We're faster and more athletic, but it doesn't cut it.
QueensBall
Member
I think impatient is the perfect word for the offense, Monte. Some of the guys were "feeling themselves" a little bit too much and got away from team ball. Obviously Moore and Earlington are the easy (and deserving) targets for blame but Posh forced a bad 3 in the first half when things were starting to go sideways and even Champagnie put up a couple of 3's in the 2nd half that were way too early in the shot clock for my liking. We're not a good enough shooting team to fall in love with the 3. The only guy who is really exhibiting smart shot selection from 3 is the freshman Wusu and it's why he's been effective.
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