(POST GAME) BYU (@Mohegan Sun), Mon., Nov. 30, 6p, ESPNU / 970 AM WNYM

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[quote="MJDinkins" post=405720][quote="Knight" post=405717]This team has growing pains. Give it time, trust the coaches.[/quote]

No worries at this juncture. I, too, believe we'll eventually be alright. Yesterday was sort of frustrating watching, IMO, unnecessary chucking.

I do believe Cole is a bit frustrated as he probably feels he's not getting enough touches and a few of his shots has been halfway down only to rattle out. Foul trouble also isn't helping him either. I think he'll also be fine as time goes on.[/quote]

Thank you MD
of course frustrated - he and others are used to being highly successful. so this is humbling - as some have poster - time, it is a process.
 
I understand that we have had some injuries, are integrating five new players and roles are being redefined, but what I don't understand is failure to box out on free throws and the lack of passion for better offensive rebounding.
 
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A lot of nice, insightful, well reasoned posts above (A few testy ones) which I could do without) - which I appreciate not having seen the BYU game. Thanks to all for your commentary. We all want to see Mike Anderson succeed, the players develop as players and young men, enjoy winning more than he Ls.
I hope (I) we continue to appreciate the positive direction we are headed and I hope we get the program to a higher level - without getting to the point where some are upset when we "only win 20 games" and "only advance to the second or third round of the tournament etc."
Those of us who have spent time and energy watching two decades of overall futility are not likely to dismiss the good times ahead.
all the best
 
I think the term”Bench Players” is not useful in CMA’s system. It connotes a player of significantly less skills, rather than a valuable piece in the rotation. There are a few Bench Players on this team.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=405753][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=405746]Cole will be fine once CMA tells Moore that Cole gets 15 shots a game an d not Him ! No Screens have been set either . Also too, I love Justin but , 20 shots a game ? Even Ponds didn’t put it up that much . Justin should be happy with 12-15 shots per game .[/quote]

If “Justin” keeps hitting 55% of them he can take 30 shots a game[/quote]. For sure , you know and I know he won’t shoot 55 percent but , it’s a nice try . 20 shots for him means less shots for others . He’s a great player but , we aren’t going to win with that as a Gameplan . Marquette didn’t with Howard hoisting them up at will . And , it cost them the Hauser kid . I’m a Julian supporter . It wasn’t intended as a slight to him . Moore shooting that many is a different story . Cole getting 6 shots , with his Rep , isn’t what he was brought here for . Just saying .
 
[quote="Logen" post=405752][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405745][quote="Logen" post=405683][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405672][quote="Logen" post=405671][quote="bamafan" post=405669]Early in the game we were chucking up 3s many by guys who should not be taking them. Coach said our offense was "settling" for these shots so why not call a TO and tell the team what you want from them in no uncertain terms?[/quote]

Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]

So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.[/quote]

No, that’s not what I said at all, I guess reading is not a strong suit so maybe try buying a book. What I said, really speculated (sorry for using a word with more than two syllables) was that maybe he wants players to realize for themselves what is a good and bad shot for them in other ways than calling timeouts in games. And as long as we are going there, the idea that fans watching on TV after four games should decide who should be shooting and playing along with what shots they should be taking rather than coaches who recruited them and see them every day in practice is what’s really stupid. I played ball seriously for decades, including NAIA college ball, and I more than went through good and bad stretches of play, every player has, that’s the way it works.[/quote]

Oh ok there Jerky
Yeah coach knows bests, so let them keep shooting and missing. So what, I mean coach knows best.[/quote]

Good comeback, how did you ever come up with that!! And how could I ever think that the coach knows more about the team than you do; I'll come up with a better reply as soon as I stop laughing. No, on second thought, I'm done with this conversation; I have to go ask CMA why he doesn't hire you as a consultant.[/quote]

Logen i see how you talk down to.others on here, I guess because you were a coach somewhere you think you're all high and mighty? Lmao. You're a nobody to me.
I won't continue this here on the board, so if you want pm me.
 
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=405768][quote="Logen" post=405752][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405745][quote="Logen" post=405683][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405672][quote="Logen" post=405671][quote="bamafan" post=405669]Early in the game we were chucking up 3s many by guys who should not be taking them. Coach said our offense was "settling" for these shots so why not call a TO and tell the team what you want from them in no uncertain terms?[/quote]

Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]

So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.[/quote]

No, that’s not what I said at all, I guess reading is not a strong suit so maybe try buying a book. What I said, really speculated (sorry for using a word with more than two syllables) was that maybe he wants players to realize for themselves what is a good and bad shot for them in other ways than calling timeouts in games. And as long as we are going there, the idea that fans watching on TV after four games should decide who should be shooting and playing along with what shots they should be taking rather than coaches who recruited them and see them every day in practice is what’s really stupid. I played ball seriously for decades, including NAIA college ball, and I more than went through good and bad stretches of play, every player has, that’s the way it works.[/quote]

Oh ok there Jerky
Yeah coach knows bests, so let them keep shooting and missing. So what, I mean coach knows best.[/quote]

Good comeback, how did you ever come up with that!! And how could I ever think that the coach knows more about the team than you do; I'll come up with a better reply as soon as I stop laughing. No, on second thought, I'm done with this conversation; I have to go ask CMA why he doesn't hire you as a consultant.[/quote]

Logen i see how you talk down to.others on here, I guess because you were a coach somewhere you think you're all high and mighty? Lmao. You're a nobody to me.
I won't continue this here on the board, so if you want pm me.[/quote]

Well you decided to start by completely misinterpreting my post and calling the premise stupid. Yes, I talk down to people who treat me the same, and that has nothing to do with basketball. As for being high and mighty, not at all, I just have a combative personality. Maybe from being in the middle of 11 brothers and sisters, maybe just from having some a$$hole in me.
No need for PMs, I have no problem with the exchange nor do I hold grudges. You came at me, I came at you, as far as I am concerned it is over.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=405746]Cole will be fine once CMA tells Moore that Cole gets 15 shots a game an d not Him ! No Screens have been set either . Also too, I love Justin but , 20 shots a game ? Even Ponds didn’t put it up that much . Justin should be happy with 12-15 shots per game .[/quote]

Hope moore doesn't catch an attitude then.
 
[quote="Logen" post=405770][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405768][quote="Logen" post=405752][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405745][quote="Logen" post=405683][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405672][quote="Logen" post=405671][quote="bamafan" post=405669]Early in the game we were chucking up 3s many by guys who should not be taking them. Coach said our offense was "settling" for these shots so why not call a TO and tell the team what you want from them in no uncertain terms?[/quote]

Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]

So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.[/quote]

No, that’s not what I said at all, I guess reading is not a strong suit so maybe try buying a book. What I said, really speculated (sorry for using a word with more than two syllables) was that maybe he wants players to realize for themselves what is a good and bad shot for them in other ways than calling timeouts in games. And as long as we are going there, the idea that fans watching on TV after four games should decide who should be shooting and playing along with what shots they should be taking rather than coaches who recruited them and see them every day in practice is what’s really stupid. I played ball seriously for decades, including NAIA college ball, and I more than went through good and bad stretches of play, every player has, that’s the way it works.[/quote]

Oh ok there Jerky
Yeah coach knows bests, so let them keep shooting and missing. So what, I mean coach knows best.[/quote]

Good comeback, how did you ever come up with that!! And how could I ever think that the coach knows more about the team than you do; I'll come up with a better reply as soon as I stop laughing. No, on second thought, I'm done with this conversation; I have to go ask CMA why he doesn't hire you as a consultant.[/quote]

Logen i see how you talk down to.others on here, I guess because you were a coach somewhere you think you're all high and mighty? Lmao. You're a nobody to me.
I won't continue this here on the board, so if you want pm me.[/quote]

Well you decided to start by completely misinterpreting my post and calling the premise stupid. Yes, I talk down to people who treat me the same, and that has nothing to do with basketball. As for being high and mighty, not at all, I just have a combative personality. Maybe from being in the middle of 11 brothers and sisters, maybe just from having some a$$hole in me.
No need for PMs, I have no problem with the exchange nor do I hold grudges. You came at me, I came at you, as far as I am concerned it is over.[/quote]

I wasn't calling your comment stupid, I was saying if cma was letting the duke and Moore take 3s and not calling timeouts to tell them to stop, that would be stupid on his part. You can't let the kids run the team, the coach has to.
 
[quote="Knight" post=405765]I think the term”Bench Players” is not useful in CMA’s system. It connotes a player of significantly less skills, rather than a valuable piece in the rotation. There are a few Bench Players on this team.[/quote] I refer to bench players w CMA as players that are getting less minutes then the best 5 players. Although they will get share of pt. I don’t like it when CMA has mass substitutions, ie playing the entire 2nd unit at the same time. At this time I would say Posh, Cole,Moore,Champ, and GWill will get the most minutes. I will reserve judgement on Dunn when he returns. Does anyone know when that will be?
 
logen and Elite, just a thought--enough---, you guys are passionate fans but don't make anything on here personal. There are way more important things to get angry about--- like Covid. We're all trying to root on our Johnnies. Stay together.

On the Johnnies so far: (and my fellow "rant" friends from last night heard it)::. What this team is missing is that hard-nosed rebounder, guy that dives and tries to go after everything in sight, guy that defends always, guy that gives up his body, guy that takes charges, guy that passes up a shot for a better shot for a team mate not a "points" guy, a guy that BOXES OUT always, guy that hammers an offensive driver so he is timid the next time, a guy who cleans up the glass offensively and defensively, a/k/a--- a "Willie Glass" type, a glue guy.

When was the last time St. John's had one of those?

They make teams better and the rest of the team feels they have to be accountable when they see a guy playing that hard.

I think based on this roster the one guy that might approach that is Earlington, especially when it comes to offensive boards. But he has to understand that role.

On BYU, one loss, let's move on--- gets two more wins, miss less bunnies, and prepare for the Uconns, Villanova and Creightons of the world.
 
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[quote="EliteBaller K" post=405771][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=405746]Cole will be fine once CMA tells Moore that Cole gets 15 shots a game an d not Him ! No Screens have been set either . Also too, I love Justin but , 20 shots a game ? Even Ponds didn’t put it up that much . Justin should be happy with 12-15 shots per game .[/quote]

Hope moore doesn't catch an attitude then.[/quote]. That’s for the Coach to deal with , if he does . I doubt CMA is applauding his 6’’10” big man shooting from 3 pt territory on a Team notoriously short of Rebounding . Moore has a lot to like so far , 15 shots isn’t one of them . But , it is what it is .
 
BrookJersey Redmen, thanks for butting in but I will decide what I get angry about and our exchange was far from personal, at least from my viewpoint. Nothing more than some banter to pass the time.
 
[quote="Logen" post=405795]BrookJersey Redmen, thanks for butting in but I will decide what I get angry about and our exchange was far from personal, at least from my viewpoint. Nothing more than some banter to pass the time.[/quote] [attachment=1750]1928ED34-D335-4142-9850-75935E3F5EE3.jpeg[/attachment]o
 
Preach Mjmajerjr!! One good thing came out of the BYU loss....we got to meet another Redmen.comer in our virtual post game rant (and after that loss it was ranting). SJU85, great connecting with you yesterday.
 
[quote="NYCRedmen" post=405801]Preach Mjmajerjr!! One good thing came out of the BYU loss....we got to meet another Redmen.comer in our virtual post game rant (and after that loss it was ranting). SJU85, great connecting with you yesterday.[/quote] Let's get Logen on. Bring the heat !!!
 
Logen, read this and tell me it is not personal and doesn't sound angry:


"No, that’s not what I said at all, I guess reading is not a strong suit so maybe try buying a book. What I said, really speculated (sorry for using a word with more than two syllables)"

Come on, man, be real at least own up to getting personal.

As you might imagine, I am done "butting in", which didn't happen--I was doing my best Rodney King and seeing if "we all couldn't get along", sorry.
 
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Logen, Elite, et al: Please refer to the Mission Statement/Code of Conduct at the below, and cease and desist from the back-and-forth on this thread and elsewhere. You can consider this a warning. While you are valued members of the site, we have suspended posting privileges for some individuals who find themselves consistently unable to live up to the site rules, and we will continue to do so. Please don't be "that guy."
Thanks

https://redmen.com/mission-statement.html
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=405595][quote="newsman13" post=405582][quote="Logen" post=405567]Team just not ready to play tonight; one can talk lineups and bad shots, and both are very valid but there was not one aspect of the game we played well. Defense provided no spark, we consistently got beat to loose balls, every time we got close we broke down on either end of the court. Examples, we tied the game, I believe at 43, and instead of cranking up the intensity and gaining momentum, Williams loses his man cutting after he passed that led to a 3 point play, then got beat easy off the dribble and poof, we were back down 5. We got to 4 late with time and Champagnie gives up a offensive rebound on a missed foul shot, just getting out hustled, plain and simple.
Not sure why, maybe a hangover from last nights collapse, but other than Champagnie scoring the ball, no one played a good game. Neither did Anderson have a very good game so all in all a collective loss IMO.[/quote]

I don't know. I'll go back to we shot 19 percent from three...they shot 55 percent...and we still lost by only two possessions. Everything else apparently went right.[/quote]

BYU shot 37% from 3 for the game, 55% in the second half. I don't recall them shooting a contested 3 in the second half. As for St. John's, they were the model of consistency from 3. About 20% both halves. BYU will end up one of the top 3 point shooting team in the country. We won't. Yet we only took 6 less 3 pointers than BYU.

After going 6 for 7 from 3 in the first game, Cole is either 0 or 1 for 14. He is much better than that. He can score off mid range turnarounds, and needs to not force the 3. What he hasn't shown yet is much athleticism. I have no idea if that is part of Cole's game.[/quote]

For some stupid reason, Coach had them play zone majority of the game. As it's been for decades, SJU and a zone do not mix well. We don't know how to play it effectively and therefore it leads to open 3's for the opponent. It seems like they banked on the idea that BYU was going to be ice cold from deep like they were the day before and we all knew it wouldn't happen 2x in a row. It was a foolish strategy that they didn't adjust out of for some stupid reason. And it lead to wide open 3's over and over, BYU were able to set their feet and take warm up jumpers all day. Just odd choice of game plan with no adjustment
 
Sometimes a loss like this can serve to correct overconfidence that might have been building. Hopefully we’ll bounce back stronger and wiser.
 
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