(POST GAME) BYU (@Mohegan Sun), Mon., Nov. 30, 6p, ESPNU / 970 AM WNYM

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This team has growing pains. Give it time, trust the coaches.
 
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[quote="Knight" post=405717]This team has growing pains. Give it time, trust the coaches.[/quote]

No worries at this juncture. I, too, believe we'll eventually be alright. Yesterday was sort of frustrating watching, IMO, unnecessary chucking.

I do believe Cole is a bit frustrated as he probably feels he's not getting enough touches and a few of his shots has been halfway down only to rattle out. Foul trouble also isn't helping him either. I think he'll also be fine as time goes on.
 
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well we wont be bored this year. Be ready to ride the roller coaster. I also love that they did not hang their heads and give up. Lets also be honest, there were an awful lot of very big dudes out there. Maybe we need a Mormon campus in salt lake city to recruit some trees. We will have problems with big teams but what else is new. sit back strap in and enjoy the ride. There mostly just kids and they will get better.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=405720][quote="Knight" post=405717]This team has growing pains. Give it time, trust the coaches.[/quote]

No worries at this juncture. I, too, believe we'll eventually be alright. Yesterday was sort of frustrating watching, IMO, unnecessary chucking.

I do believe Cole is a bit frustrated as he probably feels he's not getting enough touches and a few of his shots has been half away down only to rattle out. Foul trouble also isn't helping him either. I think he'll also be fine as time goes on.[/quote]

Agree on Cole. He's not quite shooting in rhythm the last 2 games, as he did his first 2 games against lesser comp. That's the difference between his shots going in, and rattling out. I think once we become more cohesive offensively, he'll find his rhythm and be a solid contributor. Still think he's our best 3 point shooter.
 
Just as we think Moore hitting his first three gave him false hope, I think Cole's first two games, especially without Champagne playing, gave him an unrealistic expectation of what his role will be. If he doesn't adjust, he may find himself sitting much more. Earlington is pressing and getting used to the deeper rotation, hopefully he will settle in and contribute. He is a better shooter than we have seen this year. Lastly I think WUSU has been a little bit of a victim of not getting calls on 50/50 (block charges) because of his size, add that to the random overly aggressive foul and he gets in trouble. All in all he has contributed much more than I expected. A lot of knew parts, roles still being defined. I expect we will get better as the season progresses.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=405720][quote="Knight" post=405717]This team has growing pains. Give it time, trust the coaches.[/quote]

No worries at this juncture. I, too, believe we'll eventually be alright. Yesterday was sort of frustrating watching, IMO, unnecessary chucking.

I do believe Cole is a bit frustrated as he probably feels he's not getting enough touches and a few of his shots has been half away down only to rattle out. Foul trouble also isn't helping him either. I think he'll also be fine as time goes on.[/quote]

I agree. While I understand the frustration with poor outside shooting some of this criticism of Cole just doesn't really make sense to me. The reason I'm not worried about Cole is because the only real problem I have with his game right now is that his 3 point shot isn't dropping. That's only concerning for a shooter if it's their whole game or goes into a prolonged slumped. Shooters shoot. That's the mantra, right?

Since the first game he's 1-12 from 3 but 11-18 from everywhere else. The guy knows what he's doing. He's moving in and he's hitting these short jump shots and turn-arounds. He's clearly frustrated his outside shot isn't falling. Look at his in-game behavior. It's not the behavior of a guy who "can't shoot" It's the behavior of a guy who is used to his shots falling and is frustrated that they're not. This is clearly a level he's been working towards and he wants to put on a show so he may be rushing or changing something about his shot. He's played 4 Division 1 games. Who doesn't think this type of player is going to be putting up a couple of hundred 3's in the gym each day? He's fine. If it persists then okay I'm wrong but I really don't see it right now.

Here's 2 Cole criticisms:1) I'd like to see him get to the line more. He only got there in the LaSalle game and went 6-6. Good way to get your shot going when it's not falling. 2) He's fumbled the ball a couple of times. Not sure if it's a problem. Just something I noticed.
 
Who knows if this type of play will bring us back to relevance or not...hopefully it does because it's fun to watch when it's run well. If it doesn't, the only thing we haven't tried is having a true half court offense with real set plays. Slower paced sure, but if you get some high skilled players and size, you look more like a BYU or Creighton. Many people tend to think that real bigs playing center are outdated, but BYU just used them to beat us and Nova always seems to have a guy who can bang low. Without that, we end up on the perimeter and easily getting pushed up on the 3 pt line. Then if we can't make the shots, we lose. Having a real big in paint who can score with a jump hook consistently adds an entirely new dynamic. We're missing that and a BYU player to shoot 3's. Then I think we could be a 20 win team. Moore and Cole flash talent, but they are too wild and all over the place. Getting tired of getting "shooters" who cannot make consistent 3's. Hooper, Bourgault, Mussini (1 good yr 1 bad yr), etc. Cole is the next experiment. He should be parked outside the 3 pt line ready to shoot if it comes his way. Should not be dribbling at this juncture. Toro is also more of a MAAC player.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=405733]Who knows if this type of play will bring us back to relevance or not...hopefully it does because it's fun to watch when it's run well. If it doesn't, the only thing we haven't tried is having a true half court offense with real set plays. Slower paced sure, but if you get some high skilled players and size, you look more like a BYU or Creighton. Many people tend to think that real bigs playing center are outdated, but BYU just used them to beat us and Nova always seems to have a guy who can bang low. Without that, we end up on the perimeter and easily getting pushed up on the 3 pt line. Then if we can't make the shots, we lose. Having a real big in paint who can score with a jump hook consistently adds an entirely new dynamic. We're missing that and a BYU player to shoot 3's. Then I think we could be a 20 win team. Moore and Cole flash talent, but they are too wild and all over the place. Getting tired of getting "shooters" who cannot make consistent 3's. Hooper, Bourgault, Mussini (1 good yr 1 bad yr), etc. Cole is the next experiment. He should be parked outside the 3 pt line ready to shoot if it comes his way. Should not be dribbling at this juncture. Toro is also more of a MAAC player.[/quote]

I haven't particularly or consistently seen any wild play outta Cole (Moore is a different story). And, if you can't see Cole is a different player than Hooper, Bourgault, and Mussini then I don't know what else to say. Not to mention, it's only been FOUR games.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=405733]Who knows if this type of play will bring us back to relevance or not...hopefully it does because it's fun to watch when it's run well. If it doesn't, the only thing we haven't tried is having a true half court offense with real set plays. Slower paced sure, but if you get some high skilled players and size, you look more like a BYU or Creighton. Many people tend to think that real bigs playing center are outdated, but BYU just used them to beat us and Nova always seems to have a guy who can bang low. Without that, we end up on the perimeter and easily getting pushed up on the 3 pt line. Then if we can't make the shots, we lose. Having a real big in paint who can score with a jump hook consistently adds an entirely new dynamic. We're missing that and a BYU player to shoot 3's. Then I think we could be a 20 win team. Moore and Cole flash talent, but they are too wild and all over the place. Getting tired of getting "shooters" who cannot make consistent 3's. Hooper, Bourgault, Mussini (1 good yr 1 bad yr), etc. Cole is the next experiment. He should be parked outside the 3 pt line ready to shoot if it comes his way. Should not be dribbling at this juncture. Toro is also more of a MAAC player.[/quote]

Oh, come on.
 
Cole is definitely not just a three point shooter; has a good mid range game that will pay dividends once he adjusts to Div 1 play. As Dink says it is only 4 games; a little patience goes a long way.
 
I agree regarding Cole, have to give him time to adjust to div 1 and his new teammates.
When Dunn returns, will give us another option. With the addition of Moore and Toro we are in better shape in the big dept then last year. I agree w Zaun, it would be nice to have a true BE caliber center and another shooter, but Rome wasn’t built in a day. Caherer hasn’t produced anything. Wusu is going to be a nice 4 year player and Posh is as advertised, a steal. Time will tell where we stand, a lot of unanswered questions. In Champs 2 games he looks like he’s all BE. Like others have said, Duke is a bench player, especially w Champ back and is best used as a junk yard dog,
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=405733]Toro is also more of a MAAC player.[/quote]

I'm not quite ready to relegate Toro. He too needs time to adjust. And he will need to play quality minutes in the BE when the physical play leads to more foul trouble. This is when our new found depth will help from years past.
 
[quote="Logen" post=405683][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405672][quote="Logen" post=405671][quote="bamafan" post=405669]Early in the game we were chucking up 3s many by guys who should not be taking them. Coach said our offense was "settling" for these shots so why not call a TO and tell the team what you want from them in no uncertain terms?[/quote]

Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]

So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.[/quote]

No, that’s not what I said at all, I guess reading is not a strong suit so maybe try buying a book. What I said, really speculated (sorry for using a word with more than two syllables) was that maybe he wants players to realize for themselves what is a good and bad shot for them in other ways than calling timeouts in games. And as long as we are going there, the idea that fans watching on TV after four games should decide who should be shooting and playing along with what shots they should be taking rather than coaches who recruited them and see them every day in practice is what’s really stupid. I played ball seriously for decades, including NAIA college ball, and I more than went through good and bad stretches of play, every player has, that’s the way it works.[/quote]

Oh ok there Jerky
Yeah coach knows bests, so let them keep shooting and missing. So what, I mean coach knows best.
 
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Cole will be fine once CMA tells Moore that Cole gets 15 shots a game an d not Him ! No Screens have been set either . Also too, I love Justin but , 20 shots a game ? Even Ponds didn’t put it up that much . Justin should be happy with 12-15 shots per game .
 
[quote="mm52" post=405743][quote="Mike Zaun" post=405733]Toro is also more of a MAAC player.[/quote]

I'm not quite ready to relegate Toro. He too needs time to adjust. And he will need to play quality minutes in the BE when the physical play leads to more foul trouble. This is when our new found depth will help from years past.[/quote]

I'm not ready to relegate Toro either, but as a senior on a pretty bad mid major GW team, Toro was mostly a bench player who averaged 18 minutes a game. In the small sample size here, nothing he's done has led me to believe that he's going be anything more than someone who can eat some minutes, and not hurt the team while doing so. A similar role to Damien Sears. Anything more then that, and I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

On second thought, maybe I am ready to relegate Toro lol
 
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Anyone is an upgrade over Sears, who had no offensive skills or hands. As long as Toro does not hurt us with turnovers, I'll take him eating minutes, but not over Roberts who I'd like to see ahead of Toro in the rotation.
IDK if his minutes were limited at GW because of some nagging injuries I read something about elsewhere.
 
[quote="mm52" post=405748]Anyone is an upgrade over Sears, who had no offensive skills or hands. As long as Toro does not hurt us with turnovers, I'll take him eating minutes, but not over Roberts who I'd like to see ahead of Toro in the rotation.
IDK if his minutes were limited at GW because of some nagging injuries I read something about elsewhere.[/quote]

I know stats aren't everything, and I know it's still very early, but in almost 14 MPG so far, Toro is averaging 2 pts and 2 boards. That's a lot of minutes for someone who is giving you so little production. And it's not like he's blocking shots or doing anything else. On a per minute basis, Sears last year actually far outperformed Toro so far this year. Like you, Id much prefer Roberts to get a chunk of those 14 MPG and leave Toro to spell Roberts and Moore as needed.
 
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=405745][quote="Logen" post=405683][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405672][quote="Logen" post=405671][quote="bamafan" post=405669]Early in the game we were chucking up 3s many by guys who should not be taking them. Coach said our offense was "settling" for these shots so why not call a TO and tell the team what you want from them in no uncertain terms?[/quote]

Like I said in an earlier post, I understand your point and it is valid. Counterpoint is, CMA wants to play fast and faster, he coaches creating tempo, not running plays if you will. One can like the style or not, but it is obvious that is the way he wants to play. As I believe Paul Massell posted, it takes time to play that style “intelligently”, to play at that speed while still making good decisions. I may be way wrong here but I believe there is an aspect of “they have to figure it out” to his style which may be one of the reasons people like Making Plays and Anderson himself have said his teams get better as the season goes on, guys “figure it out”. Certainly that seemed to happen last year but the too small a sample size and the truncated season leaves the jury out for me. I think things like his post game comment about teams leaving guys open for a reason is part of his coaching philosophy; he wants guys to think it through and figure it out for themselves and as a team. Calling time outs and telling guys “not to shoot” goes against the grain of how he wants the team to play, which is fast and instinctive. Maybe I am way overthinking it but I find CMA to be a very interesting man, teaching a fairly unique style of ball, somewhat the antithesis of coaches who want to control everything and have players play like robots.[/quote]

So you're saying that he might want guys that shouldn't be shooting 3s to actually shoot 3s?
Well that's stupid, they'll miss then it's like an empty possession.[/quote]

No, that’s not what I said at all, I guess reading is not a strong suit so maybe try buying a book. What I said, really speculated (sorry for using a word with more than two syllables) was that maybe he wants players to realize for themselves what is a good and bad shot for them in other ways than calling timeouts in games. And as long as we are going there, the idea that fans watching on TV after four games should decide who should be shooting and playing along with what shots they should be taking rather than coaches who recruited them and see them every day in practice is what’s really stupid. I played ball seriously for decades, including NAIA college ball, and I more than went through good and bad stretches of play, every player has, that’s the way it works.[/quote]

Oh ok there Jerky
Yeah coach knows bests, so let them keep shooting and missing. So what, I mean coach knows best.[/quote]

Good comeback, how did you ever come up with that!! And how could I ever think that the coach knows more about the team than you do; I'll come up with a better reply as soon as I stop laughing. No, on second thought, I'm done with this conversation; I have to go ask CMA why he doesn't hire you as a consultant.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=405746]Cole will be fine once CMA tells Moore that Cole gets 15 shots a game an d not Him ! No Screens have been set either . Also too, I love Justin but , 20 shots a game ? Even Ponds didn’t put it up that much . Justin should be happy with 12-15 shots per game .[/quote]

If “Justin” keeps hitting 55% of them he can take 30 shots a game
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=405741]I agree regarding Cole, have to give him time to adjust to div 1 and his new teammates.
When Dunn returns, will give us another option. With the addition of Moore and Toro we are in better shape in the big dept then last year. I agree w Zaun, it would be nice to have a true BE caliber center and another shooter, but Rome wasn’t built in a day. Caherer hasn’t produced anything. Wusu is going to be a nice 4 year player and Posh is as advertised, a steal. Time will tell were we stand, a lot of unanswered questions. In Champs 2 games he looks like he’s all BE. Like others have said, Duke is a bench player, especially w Champ back and is best used as a junk yard dog,[/quote]

Thank you RAS!
Perspective please (Says I to Myself - Walt Whitman)
20 months into the Mike Anderson regime
better recruiting
better bench
solid HC and AD
heading in the right direction

I am satisfied

Mike Krzyzewski at Duke
1980-81 17-13
1981-82 10-17
1982-83 11-17
1983-84 24-10

(Our Mike A is ONLY in his second season - and has further challenge of COVID
again perspective - one of my favorite words that I try to live by (sometimes successfully lol) )
 
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