(POST GAME) BYU (@Mohegan Sun), Mon., Nov. 30, 6p, ESPNU / 970 AM WNYM

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Team just not ready to play tonight; one can talk lineups and bad shots, and both are very valid but there was not one aspect of the game we played well. Defense provided no spark, we consistently got beat to loose balls, every time we got close we broke down on either end of the court. Examples, we tied the game, I believe at 43, and instead of cranking up the intensity and gaining momentum, Williams loses his man cutting after he passed that led to a 3 point play, then got beat easy off the dribble and poof, we were back down 5. We got to 4 late with time and Champagnie gives up a offensive rebound on a missed foul shot, just getting out hustled, plain and simple.
Not sure why, maybe a hangover from last nights collapse, but other than Champagnie scoring the ball, no one played a good game. Neither did Anderson have a very good game so all in all a collective loss IMO.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=405565][quote="SJU61982" post=405559][quote="Section3" post=405553][quote="Paultzman" post=405545]5 three attempts by Moore won’t make Paul happy or CMA either

Team - 21 attempts from 3, made 4. BYU must have loved that.[/quote]
He wasn’t even close on any of them. Rushed shots.

This is a game they absolutely could have and probably should have won.[/quote]

He made his first 3 pointer, and I think that proved to be the worst thing to happen to him in this game.[/quote]

Yep! The same thing I said. It reminded me of a kid I had on my youth team several years ago. He'd play his ass off and hustled like crazy, but he had terrible form on his jumper and it usually was Brick City. If he by chance hit one, then he suddenly thought he was a three-point shooter as he'd hurl one or two more and I'd then check his ass.

It was good Moore hit the first one, but I felt it was also a bad omen.[/quote]

Well, at the time, I was happy he made it, and hoped it would lead to good things. I'll never root for us to miss a shot. My observation was complete revisionist history.
 
There is one word that this team needs to focus on moving forward: IDENTITY

A few guys on the team think they are “The Guy” and play to get theirs not to help the team win. Roles need to be established by this staff and the players need to be willing to fill those roles.

Julian Champagnie is the guy. Greg Williams should be his sidekick. Vince Cole should be a guy we look to get set shots or mid range looks coming off of screens.

The rest of these guys need to play tough defense and do the little things necessary to win ball games. And take shots when it actually makes sense.

I don’t need to say names, if you watched the game you know. Some guys think they are a focal point of the offense when they shouldn’t be. And it needs to be fixed
 
Really no pros here other than Greg and Champ looking good. I knew we would have big trouble with their size. Our guards did not want to drive on 7 footers. When they did they got swatted as expected. BYU shot lights out 2nd half. Seemed like they shot 80% that half. They're simply too skilled for us offensively. They got back very quickly in fast breaks and after their makes. Barcello is the only player that will take over, but we kept giving him nonstop open looks. I also figured BYU wouldn't lose 2 straight. They're a good program. Bad matchup. Could not get inside on them and could not get enough transition scoring. Ball game right there.
 
Barcello was the difference, plain and simple. You can analyze the game all you want, but he killed us.
 
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=405573]is Cole just another hyped shooter that sju gets?[/quote]

He wasn't hyped as a shooter. That first game was a surprise, and probably a fluke.

That being said, I think he's a scorer who will be able to make occasional outside shots.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=405570]There is one word that this team needs to focus on moving forward: IDENTITY

A few guys on the team think they are “The Guy” and play to get theirs not to help the team win. Roles need to be established by this staff and the players need to be willing to fill those roles.

Julian Champagnie is the guy. Greg Williams should be his sidekick. Vince Cole should be a guy we look to get set shots or mid range looks coming off of screens.

The rest of these guys need to play tough defense and do the little things necessary to win ball games. And take shots when it actually makes sense.

I don’t need to say names, if you watched the game you know. Some guys think they are a focal point of the offense when they shouldn’t be. And it needs to be fixed[/quote] Dinkins and I were texting the EXACT same thing during the game
 
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=405573]is Cole just another hyped shooter that sju gets?[/quote] A game like today the way we were selfish on offense tough for anyone to get in a rhythm. He has shown he can get points in a variety of ways no way am I giving up on him heck I want more offense flowing through him even if he doesn't shoot
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=405569][quote="MJDinkins" post=405565][quote="SJU61982" post=405559][quote="Section3" post=405553][quote="Paultzman" post=405545]5 three attempts by Moore won’t make Paul happy or CMA either

Team - 21 attempts from 3, made 4. BYU must have loved that.[/quote]
He wasn’t even close on any of them. Rushed shots.

This is a game they absolutely could have and probably should have won.[/quote]

He made his first 3 pointer, and I think that proved to be the worst thing to happen to him in this game.[/quote]

Yep! The same thing I said. It reminded me of a kid I had on my youth team several years ago. He'd play his ass off and hustled like crazy, but he had terrible form on his jumper and it usually was Brick City. If he by chance hit one, then he suddenly thought he was a three-point shooter as he'd hurl one or two more and I'd then check his ass.

It was good Moore hit the first one, but I felt it was also a bad omen.[/quote]

Well, at the time, I was happy he made it, and hoped it would lead to good things. I'll never root for us to miss a shot. My observation was complete revisionist history.[/quote]

Oh, no doubt I was happy he made the shot. Heck! I was hoping it'd get him cranking and he'd have a great shooting night. Deep down, I have a pretty good idea the type of players he is and felt it'd lead to him jacking shots, which he did.
 
mjmaherjr wrote:
A game like today the way we were selfish on offense tough for anyone to get in a rhythm. He has shown he can get points in a variety of ways no way am I giving up on him heck I want more offense flowing through him even if he doesn't shoot

+1000
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=405575][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405573]is Cole just another hyped shooter that sju gets?[/quote]

He wasn't hyped as a shooter. That first game was a surprise, and probably a fluke.

That being said, I think he's a scorer who will be able to make occasional outside shots.[/quote]

I thought he was a 3pnt shooter that shot something like 43% from 3 or something like that?
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=405575][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405573]is Cole just another hyped shooter that sju gets?[/quote]

He wasn't hyped as a shooter. That first game was a surprise, and probably a fluke.

That being said, I think he's a scorer who will be able to make occasional outside shots.[/quote]

I thought he was a 3pnt shooter that shot something like 43% from 3 or something like that?
 
[quote="Logen" post=405567]Team just not ready to play tonight; one can talk lineups and bad shots, and both are very valid but there was not one aspect of the game we played well. Defense provided no spark, we consistently got beat to loose balls, every time we got close we broke down on either end of the court. Examples, we tied the game, I believe at 43, and instead of cranking up the intensity and gaining momentum, Williams loses his man cutting after he passed that led to a 3 point play, then got beat easy off the dribble and poof, we were back down 5. We got to 4 late with time and Champagnie gives up a offensive rebound on a missed foul shot, just getting out hustled, plain and simple.
Not sure why, maybe a hangover from last nights collapse, but other than Champagnie scoring the ball, no one played a good game. Neither did Anderson have a very good game so all in all a collective loss IMO.[/quote]

I don't know. I'll go back to we shot 19 percent from three...they shot 55 percent...and we still lost by only two possessions. Everything else apparently went right.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=405570]There is one word that this team needs to focus on moving forward: IDENTITY

A few guys on the team think they are “The Guy” and play to get theirs not to help the team win. Roles need to be established by this staff and the players need to be willing to fill those roles.

Julian Champagnie is the guy. Greg Williams should be his sidekick. Vince Cole should be a guy we look to get set shots or mid range looks coming off of screens.

The rest of these guys need to play tough defense and do the little things necessary to win ball games. And take shots when it actually makes sense.

I don’t need to say names, if you watched the game you know. Some guys think they are a focal point of the offense when they shouldn’t be. And it needs to be fixed[/quote]

I certainly understand yours and others point but there is a flip side. CMA obviously wants to push tempo, play fast and then faster. In order to do that, you generally are going to let players take the first good shot that shows; if not you are slowing the tempo. Now there is a very fine line in that style between a good and bad shot. The style is really predicated on getting easy baskets off your D, and forcing the opponent into quick shots and then pushing the ball. But when forced to play slow like tonight, it makes for some ugly ball. Last night that style was good for 97 and I would contend the main difference being we got easy baskets off our D last night, pretty much none tonight. We shot well last night because we played to our rhythm. Tonight, frankly, much like St Peters, we never got BYU to play fast, rather they controlled tempo and made us play slow (and ugly). IMO, for whatever reason, we tried to push tempo on offense rather than defense which led to quick jacks right from the start and we saw the result.
 
This game was awful. BYU didn't deserve to win they just deserved to lose a little less than us.

Moore and Earlington were just completely out of control. I'm very grateful to have both of these guys and think they're valuable pieces but they negate that value when they both have the green light like they're Dame Lillard. Cole is in a slump but for some reason I'm not at all concerned about him. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I think he just needs to adjust to the level and he will. He's got it. Moore's issues look deeper to me.

Also I love the pressure. I love making it messy and don't mind giving up some easy buckets but we have to get better about tracking shooters. It's gonna happen but when it's happening as often as it was (especially in the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half. If we'd played good D in JUST that window we would have won) it means something about your press is broken even if you're forcing a good-looking turnover every few possessions.

Dunn was missed. Hope he's doing okay. We need him back so we can tighten this rotation a little bit more. Would really help.

Positives: What's going on with Champagnie? Do we have a legitimate star? As frustrated as I was watching I feel weirdly optimistic. I think we MAY be watching something happen that's very cool, pretty rare and we shouldn't let the frustration of an early season loss ruin our enjoyment of it. If he keeps emerging this could get fun. Let's see where he goes with it. Posh stepped up after an invisible 1st half despite some mistakes. Guys with 4 points don't usually impact the game as much as him. Williams looks WAY better to me this year and I really like Wusu. He's going to be a real contributor here. He's already 3x better than a bench piece like Trimble ever was. I think Cole gets comfortable, Dunn gets healthy and the staff can remind Moore and Earlington of when they're at their best this team will do something. We're going to get hot. I feel it. Hopefully in time to make some real noise. I'm angry but at peace. Is that possible?
 
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[quote="mjmaherjr" post=405577][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405573]is Cole just another hyped shooter that sju gets?[/quote] A game like today the way we were selfish on offense tough for anyone to get in a rhythm. He has shown he can get points in a variety of ways no way am I giving up on him heck I want more offense flowing through him even if he doesn't shoot[/quote]

Yeah he can get his in other ways also, guess that's why I'm surprised he only got 4pnts in 27 minutes.
 
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=405586][quote="mjmaherjr" post=405577][quote="EliteBaller K" post=405573]is Cole just another hyped shooter that sju gets?[/quote] A game like today the way we were selfish on offense tough for anyone to get in a rhythm. He has shown he can get points in a variety of ways no way am I giving up on him heck I want more offense flowing through him even if he doesn't shoot[/quote]

Yeah he can get his in other ways also, guess that's why I'm surprised he only got 4pnts in 27 minutes.[/quote] He definitely didnt have a great game. I just cringed at a lot of shots today by some. We had a few nice sequences one was getting a Wusu open 3 but those were few and far between
 
[quote="Logen" post=405567]Team just not ready to play tonight; one can talk lineups and bad shots, and both are very valid but there was not one aspect of the game we played well. Defense provided no spark, we consistently got beat to loose balls, every time we got close we broke down on either end of the court. Examples, we tied the game, I believe at 43, and instead of cranking up the intensity and gaining momentum, Williams loses his man cutting after he passed that led to a 3 point play, then got beat easy off the dribble and poof, we were back down 5. We got to 4 late with time and Champagnie gives up a offensive rebound on a missed foul shot, just getting out hustled, plain and simple.
Not sure why, maybe a hangover from last nights collapse, but other than Champagnie scoring the ball, no one played a good game. Neither did Anderson have a very good game so all in all a collective loss IMO.[/quote]. I agree about CMA had a poor game as Coach . He substituted poorly in the first half , having essentially 5 non scorers in the game at the same time .. In close games , points squandered early are just as important as those missed later . Moore , to me , was out of control from 3 , as was Earlington . CMA ‘ offense has never been a lot of X ‘s and O’s anyway and it’s a short coming . The other thing is that we don’t have a solid core of Players who can drain it consistently . It should be a major objective to get some players who are legit 3 point shots . It’s a must in today’s Game with the 3 being so important . Cole didn’t have a great game shooting but , he rarely saw the Ball enough in my opinion . Too much Moore and Earlington hoisting . Posh played ok but , wasn’t the dominant factor as he was in the earlier games . BYU has a lot of guys who can shoot it , especially with all the open looks they got , which is a inherent problem in CMA ‘s Defensive strategy . Use this game as a learning experience .
 
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